30 replies to this topic

[dancin stu]

The thread on Autopsort putting fake names in the birthdays,and spoof japanese names and race reports, got me thining on something else that used to be quite amusing. Roundabout the early nineties, does anyone else remeber the comments put inthe internationalF3000 results table? seem to remeber some pretty funny ones, especially Donington 93, after the huuuuuge gravel traps wereput in, several comments of 'got lost in the sahara desert at redgate' and various other to dowith buckets and spades.
Anybody have any old copies and fancy putting them up for a good nostalgic laugh??

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by dancin stu
The thread on Autopsort putting fake names in the birthdays,and spoof japanese names and race reports, got me thining on something else that used to be quite amusing. Roundabout the early nineties, does anyone else remeber the comments put inthe internationalF3000 results table? seem to remeber some pretty funny ones, especially Donington 93, after the huuuuuge gravel traps wereput in, several comments of 'got lost in the sahara desert at redgate' and various other to dowith buckets and spades.
Anybody have any old copies and fancy putting them up for a good nostalgic laugh??

Sigh - good stuff indeed! Used to be Simon Arron doing MN's F3000 coverage, didn't it? - there were some very pithy ones in there too, like "driver lost interest"!

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Sigh - good stuff indeed! Used to be Simon Arron doing MN's F3000 coverage, didn't it? - there were some very pithy ones in there too, like "driver lost interest"!

Is my memory playing me up at this late hour or was this one ? "You can continue, but I won`t concentrate on this thread and I will start with others"

[ensign14]

The only one I can definitely remember was Pascal Witmeur's Free Gachot protest entry at Spa in 1991...his qualifying time was listed as 'still trying to complete lap as we went to press'...

[Rob29]

My favouite was reasons for non starting-'BBB' (B***ered by beaurocracy) when a team changed drivers mid -season then changed back to the original,who was told he could not run as the rules said you could only change once per season.

[2F-001]

I always enjoyed Simon Arron's reporting - I sensed he was writing for ''the likes of me'', with a knowledge and enthusiasm not distorted by sensationalism. (I can't imagine him writing for the current Autosport, for example) and I liked his lttle quips which were tucked away in the results. They felt like little treats that you'd discovered all on your own. Enlivening dry statistics like that was neat - if you just scanned the results, you were then intrigued enough to read the report!

Is he still writing for Motorsport (né Motoring) News? Can he be 'read' anywhere else currently?

Oh! - where was the thread about make-believe drivers/races/birthdays? I've done a search, but I'm obviously searching for the wrong thing - story of my life, really. (Or was it elsewhere on Atlas?)

[dancin stu]

Originally posted by 2F-001

Oh! - where was the thread about make-believe drivers/races/birthdays? I've done a search, but I'm obviously searching for the wrong thing - story of my life, really. (Or was it elsewhere on Atlas?)

it was on a thread i was reading the other day, http://forums.atlasf...&highlight=1888

don't suppose anyones got any of the old reports, and fancies ssanning them in please, would make for some well good reading!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by 2F-001
I always enjoyed Simon Arron's reporting - I sensed he was writing for ''the likes of me'', with a knowledge and enthusiasm not distorted by sensationalism. (I can't imagine him writing for the current Autosport, for example) and I liked his lttle quips which were tucked away in the results. They felt like little treats that you'd discovered all on your own. Enlivening dry statistics like that was neat - if you just scanned the results, you were then intrigued enough to read the report!

Is he still writing for Motorsport (né Motoring) News? Can he be 'read' anywhere else currently?

Oh! - where was the thread about make-believe drivers/races/birthdays? I've done a search, but I'm obviously searching for the wrong thing - story of my life, really. (Or was it elsewhere on Atlas?)

But the best reporting was often F2/F3000 - Ian Phillips used to be very good at it when he was a scribe (and before he became a money-grubber for March and later Jordan).....

I suspect this is partly because there's a bit less room for egos and bullshit in the less exalted paddocks of a second-level formula. The teams tend to be close-knit and know each other and the journos, the drivers are just passing through ;)

[bill moffat]

Did Edgar Jessop ever compete on 4 wheels ?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by bill moffat
Did Edgar Jessop ever compete on 4 wheels ?

I have seen a picture of the legendary Edgar in a tractor race at Silverstone.... alas, the details are somewhat murky but it appeared in Autosport some time ago!

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by petefenelon


I have seen a picture of the legendary Edgar in a tractor race at Silverstone.... alas, the details are somewhat murky but it appeared in Autosport some time ago!

Race of My Life IIRC - the bit at the back - lates 80s, early 90s I reckon - I will go for 89 if you are looking.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by ghinzani


Race of My Life IIRC - the bit at the back - lates 80s, early 90s I reckon - I will go for 89 if you are looking.

I think you're probably right! - I only have Autosports from 93 on at my place home the moment (I used to dump every few months' worth back at my dad's when I was a student/postgrad).

A "Race of my Life" compilation would be quite a nice little book...

[Mallory Dan]

Agreed re Arron, where is he now, was very good, knowledgeable, witty, and appeared to be an enthusiast. On this point, I also found Bulgin pretty good in his earlier days, a bit pretentious later on though, as, I guess, he got further on his career, and further therefore away from his roots. I know he's no longer with us, and unable to answer back, what does anyone else think.

Of others, I though MLC was excellent in MN, Spurring too in AS, but thats many years ago!

[BRG]

Those old F3000 reports often included some priceless comments - they used to be oen of the first things I would look at when I got my copy of MN.

The tradition has been preserved in MN's F1 driver by driver ranking in each GP report. These are often very funny and to the point, in a way that other race reporting rarely is. Comments like "try driving faster" and "totally invisible all weekend" often sum up a drivers performance better than acres of text and statistics - but of course, they are hopelessly subjective! Who does those? I cannot remember and don't have any backcopies of MN to hand

[ensign14]

Originally posted by petefenelon


I have seen a picture of the legendary Edgar in a tractor race at Silverstone.... alas, the details are somewhat murky but it appeared in Autosport some time ago!

The Edgar Jessop trophy. As Edgar pointed out he did not take part but was clearly visible in the picture.

The helpful caption stated that Edgar was under the 'S' in a Shell sign at the back, and the image was about 2 pixels high.

Didn't some of the MCN journos nearly get a story printed in the continental bike mags that Norton would return to 500cc racing with Jessop coming out of retirement?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by BRG
Those old F3000 reports often included some priceless comments - they used to be oen of the first things I would look at when I got my copy of MN.

The tradition has been preserved in MN's F1 driver by driver ranking in each GP report. These are often very funny and to the point, in a way that other race reporting rarely is. Comments like "try driving faster" and "totally invisible all weekend" often sum up a drivers performance better than acres of text and statistics - but of course, they are hopelessly subjective! Who does those? I cannot remember and don't have any backcopies of MN to hand

...whereas the Beano gives Fissi 8 for turning up, and generally claims that almost everyone "did the best with the equipment available to him" even if they had the sort of weekend where they qualified 20th and finished 18th in a Williams....

Autosport really does seem to be afraid to be critical these days. I might make a new year's resolution to stop buying the damn thing...

[Mallory Dan]

Pete

Get "Traction" instead, much better read...

[provapr]

Simon Arron is and always has been total class - one of the finest motorsport jounalists around, I think.

Just the right mix of humour, knowledge and passion.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Pete

Get "Traction" instead, much better read...

;)

Ah yes, the 37 went up as an avatar after a splendidly grim day top'n'tailed by a pair of them on the Settle & Carlisle t'other week. Those awfully nice people at Arriva Trains Northern recently started to run one loco-hauled diagram a day... which seems to have no ordinary passengers and a smattering of enthusiasts. Nicely refurbed Mk2fs virtually empty, but standing room only in the vestibules most of the way as everyone had a go at enjoying some splendid EE thrash...;)

[2F-001]

Ooooooh, trains! I was going to ask what ''Traction" was... but I get the gist now... my father gets a thing called ''Backtrack" which is a bit like Motorsport with flanges and no tight corners. I made a joke about ''cant'' once (well, a bad pun at least) and got told off. (Cant is the angle at which the rails lean inwards as well as jargon and hypocracy and maybe a number of other things too). No, seriously, I quite like trains - although the current variety in use in SE England vex me somewhat... and have you seen the cost of going by train from London to anywhere more than twenty miles away? Jeez, it's enough to make... oh, forgive me, I've an unproductive day... I'm grumpy...

So, back to the thread: does anyone know what Simon Arron is doing these days or where he might be read?

[Birmman]

I believe he is Exec Editor (?) of Motorsport News. He doesn't appear to do much writing nowadays unfortunately - he may have been kicked upstairs to a management position. I came across his email through work recently so have forwarded him this thread. I agree he was a very readable journalist. Lets hope for a reply.........

[Milan Fistonic]

A few more reasons for retirement from S.A.

Frentzened - Colciago at Le Mans and Gache at Nogaro 1991.

hates rain - Naspetti at Le Mans

bang! - Gounon at Le Mans

spun off (yes, again) - Bugatti at Le Mans

gravel stricken - Apicella at Le Mans

beached - Frentzen at Le Mans

Bugatti attack - Gounon at Nogaro

friendly accident - Montermini at Nogaro

hit best mate - Tamburini at Nogaro

[2F-001]

Oh - well done, Birmman - it would be great to see Mr Arron around these parts.

I've just spoke with my father - he said SA pops wih editorial-style comment and more reflective pieces in MN. I had been thinking of taking MN again, now that Autosprat is such a heap of poo... I can't quite break the habit... although I have stopped keeping them (in fact they get chucked out before I've read them now!)

Mr Arron - just a few more regular pieces from your good self and I'd jump Autosport's ship...!

[TFBundy]

I too loved Simon Arron's 3000 reports. Was it when [?] Gounon was getting results with a Lola 88/50 in 1990 [?] that the car was listed in the results column as a 'Bugatti type 35-Zytec'?

And I do know Edgar Jessop lives [just] and posts on other forums - well he tends to rant about the old days actually! - but he prefers to let others tell of his legends here ;) .

I wonder if Govenor Reutemann still has the charred plimsoles of the Edgar Jessop Trophy he won in that tractor race?

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by TFBundy
Was it when [?] Gounon was getting results with a Lola 88/50 in 1990 [?] that the car was listed in the results column as a 'Bugatti type 35-Zytec'?

Phillipe Gache, Galaxy Racing t89/50 IIRC

[TFBundy]

Well I knew the driver's hair was thinning! Thanks!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by 2F-001
Oh - well done, Birmman - it would be great to see Mr Arron around these parts.

I've just spoke with my father - he said SA pops wih editorial-style comment and more reflective pieces in MN. I had been thinking of taking MN again, now that Autosprat is such a heap of poo... I can't quite break the habit... although I have stopped keeping them (in fact they get chucked out before I've read them now!)

Mr Arron - just a few more regular pieces from your good self and I'd jump Autosport's ship...!

Tell you what, 2F, let's do it on a buddy basis, like smokers - I'll give up Autosport if you do ;)

[ensign14]

And from Grand Prix Data Book volume 2 by DH squared (Davids Hayhoe and Holland, whatever happened to them), going through the 1994 driver changes, some more reference humour:

Belgium Adams	Lotus	 Zanardi   (not Belgian or rich)

Belgium Alliot   Larrousse Beretta   (ran out of money)

Belgium Hakkinen McLaren   Alliot	(back from sin bin)



Italy  Dalmas	Larrousse Alliot	(younger & wealthier)

Italy  Lehto	 Benetton  Schumacher(missed black flag)

Italy  Zanardi   Lotus	 Adams	 (at least he could drive a bit)



Portugal Adams   Lotus	 Zanardi   (but Lotus needed the money)



Europe  Zanardi  Lotus	 Adams	 (money isn't everything)

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by ensign14
And from Grand Prix Data Book volume 2 by DH squared (Davids Hayhoe and Holland, whatever happened to them), going through the 1994 driver changes, some more reference humour:

Belgium Adams	Lotus	 Zanardi   (not Belgian or rich)

Belgium Alliot   Larrousse Beretta   (ran out of money)

Belgium Hakkinen McLaren   Alliot	(back from sin bin)



Italy  Dalmas	Larrousse Alliot	(younger & wealthier)

Italy  Lehto	 Benetton  Schumacher(missed black flag)

Italy  Zanardi   Lotus	 Adams	 (at least he could drive a bit)



Portugal Adams   Lotus	 Zanardi   (but Lotus needed the money)



Europe  Zanardi  Lotus	 Adams	 (money isn't everything)

Sigh, that probably was the ultimate musical-chairs season - off the top of my head, I think only Tyrrell, Arrows, Minardi and Pacific ran the same two drivers for every race...

[Birmman]

As I mentioned in a previous reply, I sent the contents of this thread to Simon Arron. He has emailed a couple of replies and I have edited a few together for the benefit of the forum;


"As I am presently unable to access the thread, I would be grateful if you could extend my thanks to your Atlas pals for their bizarre powers of recall. If any of them wants to contact me directly, I really don't mind my e-mail address being broadcast.

Amazed that my F3000 results had any kind of following at all. Amused that they have been likened to the current MN F1 analyses but don't seem to have spotted my name at the bottom of the latter!

I tried to post a reply but Atlas tied me up in a pile of registration nonsense so I haven't got round to it yet. For the record, I haven't been "shoved upstairs" as some of them seem to think. I have been working as a freelance for the past seven years (MN, Daily Telegraph and various others). I work at MN a couple of times per week, still do its F3000 reports and also do a fair bit of F1 stuff - including aforementioned driver rants.

I was amused to note that one contributor suggested I couldn't possibly be interested in writing for "modern, sensationalist Autosport". I do contribute occasionally and have a feature scheduled with them for the next couple of weeks. It is about 1976, mind...

As I said in my earlier missive, don't hesitate to hurl any questions at me if you have them. I'll always do my best to answer."


Although Simon says he doesn't mind his email being broadcast, I think to save him being deluged by spam from email address web crawlers it would be better if anyone wanting to contact him PM's me first, and I will forward his address. Perhaps anyone who does could try and persuade him to register with Atlas?

[conjohn]

In a similar vein to Simon Arron's comments, this is a snippet from Gary Fielden's last (latest?) NASCAR book 'Forty Plus Four - 1990-1993' about the Winston 500 at Talladega May 2, 1993:

[FONT=courier new] 1 16   4  Ernie Irvan		Morgan-McClure Chevrolet	 188   $85,875  Running

 2  2  12  Jimmy Spencer	  Bobby Allison Ford		   188	56,850  Running

 3  3  18  Dale Jarrett	   Joe Gibbs Chevrolet		  188	44,870  Running

 4  1   3  Dale Earnhardt	 RCR Enterprises Chevrolet	188	39,870  Running

 5  6  20  Joe Ruttman		Dick Moroso Ford			 188	25,765  Running

 6 24   2  Rusty Wallace	  Roger Penske Pontiac		 188	28,490  [B]Sailing[/B]

 7  5  28  Davey Allison	  Robert Yates Racing Ford	 188	27,710  Running

... [/FONT]

Rusty was tapped by Earnhardt, and his 'car lifted high into the air and sailed across the finish line flipping.'