36 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

I recently acquired a large number of period magazines from the 1960/70s.

One particular name of the late 1960s and early 1970s era who keeps popping up with regularity is Belgian Francois Goldstein. He seem to have dominated the sport, so I am curious what ever happened to him, because he never seem to have made it into "proper" racing.

Anyone who knows the story?

World Karting Champions 1964-2001
Back to the story
1964 Guido Sala (IT) Tecno/Parilla
1965 Guido Sala (IT) Tecno/BM
1966 Susanna Raganelli (IT) Tecno/Parilla
1967 Edgardo Rossi (CH) Birel/Parilla
1968 Tomas Nilsson (SE) Robardie/BM
1969 Francois Goldstein (BE) Robardie/Parilla
1970 Francois Goldstein (BE) Robardie/Parilla
1971 Francois Goldstein (BE) Taifun/Parilla
1972 Francois Goldstein (BE) Taifun/Parilla
1973 Terry Fullerton (GB) Birel/Komet
1974 Ricardo Patrese (IT) Birel/Komet
1975 Francois Goldstein (BE) BM/BM
1976 Felice Rovelli (IT) BM/BM
1977 Felice Rovelli (IT) BM/BM
1978 Lake Speed (US) Birel/Parilla
1979 Peter Koene (NL) DAP/DAP
1980 Peter de Bruijn (NL) Swiss Hutless/Parilla
1981 Mike Wilson (IT) Birel/Komet
1982 Mike Wilson (IT) Birel/Komet
1983 Mike Wilson (IT) Birel/Komet
1984 Jorn Haase (DK) Kali/Komet
1985 Mike Wilson (IT) Kali/Komet
1986 Augusto Ribas (BR) Birel/Komet
1987 Gianpiero Simoni (IT) PCR/PCR
1988 Mike Wilson (IT) CRG/Komet
1989 Mike Wilson (IT) CRG/Komet
1990 Jan Magnussen (DK) CRG/Rotax
1991 Jarno Trulli (IT) All Kart/Parilla
1992 Danilo Rossi (IT) CRG/Rotax
1993 Nicola Gianniberti (IT) Haase/Rotax
1994 Alessandro Manetti (IT) CRG/Rotax
1995 Massimiliano Orsini (IT) Swiss Hutless/Italsistem
1996 Johnny Mislijevic (SE) Tony Kart/Vortex
1997 Danilo Rossi (IT) CRG/CRG
1998 Davide Fore (IT) Tony Kart/Vortex
1999 Danilo Rossi (IT) CRG/CRG
2000 Davide Fore (IT) Tony Kart/Vortex
2001 Vitantonio Liuzzi (IT) CRG/Maxter

[David Beard]

That list makes interesting reading, doesn't it Rainer? A few names who went on to be better known in the broader motor sporting world, and others. like Goldstein, who you wonder why we didn't hear more of later. The World Karting Championships on these 100cc jobs was a pretty tough arena, and I seem to recall that Goldstein was regarded as one of the very toughest competitors.

Lake Speed took an unusual route for a world champion karter...

I've just dug out my box of ancient karting magazines...I might scan a few pics.

[VDP]

Don't forget that at this time Belgium had Jacky Ickx in old belgian papers it seems that F Goldstein tries Formula V but dindn't find it funny but what also about Mike Wilson and Terry Fullerton

Robert

[Cirrus]

I was a junior karter when Goldstein was at his peak, so he was a bit of a hero to me. Not only did he win those World Championships, he was also second in 1967, and third behind Patrese and Cheever in 1974. In 1975 he beat Elio de Angelis to win the final. Goldstein was one of the first karters to realise the importance of tyres. At the 1971 World Championships, Goodyear introduced the Bluestreak tyre, and Goldstein had no hesitation in ditching the Robardie kart, on the first day, for the Taifun, which was much better suited to the grippier tyres.

Goldstein was not averse to robust driving when he felt it necessary. In 1970, Carl-Heinz Peters lost his front teeth when his head hit the steering wheel after a nerf from FG. Goldstein always made sure he had the best (ie Boroni-tuned) engines, and used every trick in the book to gain an advantage. At the '71 Championships he stretched forward in his seat on his qualifying lap, stuck his left leg out ahead of the bumper, and broke the timing beam a fraction earlier.

I don't know if Goldstein did any car racing, but maybe his whole life had revolved around karts and their many foibles for too long, and he wasn't able to make the transition to cars.

Whilst on the subject of karting superstars who did not progress (all from the same era) how about

Mike Wilson - 6-times WC, who Senna described as the best driver in the world (in anything!)
Mickey Allen - multi British Champion, 3 times on the podium in the WC
Terry Fullerton - 1973 World Champ

and many others, such as Mark Steeds and Alan Lane.

Incidentally, I've always fancied a Taifun - does anyone out there have a suitable restoration project cluttering up their shed?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Cirrus
Whilst on the subject of karting superstars who did not progress (all from the same era) how about

Mike Wilson - 6-times WC, who Senna described as the best driver in the world (in anything!)
Mickey Allen - multi British Champion, 3 times on the podium in the WC
Terry Fullerton - 1973 World Champ

and many others, such as Mark Steeds and Alan Lane.

Incidentally, I've always fancied a Taifun - does anyone out there have a suitable restoration project cluttering up their shed?

When I did my little bit of karting Fullerton was definitely something of an icon. Didn't he more recently have something to do with FFord as an entrant..perhaps Ralph Firman Jnr? (I might have that the wrong way round somehow, but I'm sure there was a Firman / Fullerton connection.)

If you want a kart restoration project, the 2nd DAB Mk2 chassis is lying around here....capable of more adjustment than a Lotus 77, with more Rose joints than seen on a kart before or since

[neville mackay]

As a junior karter in the early 70's of less than modest talents, Goldstein was a sort of God to me. We used to read about his exploits every month in Karting Magazine. To its eternal shame, the magazine took against him - largely due to his nationality - and ran a pathetic vendetta based on little more than his ability to regularly beat Terry Fullerton! Goldstein played a big part in helping to move karting into a more professional modern era and he was the yardstick against which everyone else was measured for most of the 70's . I remember seeing him race one year - possibly 76 - in the Spa 24 hours, but he didn't make a go of car racing for some reason.

[Cirrus]

the 2nd DAB Mk2 chassis is lying around here

I'm afraid it's the Taifun in particular that gets my juices flowing. I suppose, that being from the North West, you might never have ventured as far south as Blackbushe, and pitted the DAB Mk2 against the Cirrus 001, 002 or 003?

[ReWind]

For quite a while I was contemplating to start a thread on Kart (World/European) Champions (because I virtually don't know anything about them) but was unsure whether that would have a place on TNF.
(On the other side meanwhile they are talking about Porsche 928 here, too .)

Well, I'll take this as an occasion to ask for a link to full results of the World and/or European Championships.

Have there been Championships in FIA style (a certain number of rounds with a points system) or has there been one championship race (at the end of the season)?

[barrykm]

I raced karts briefly in the mid-70s in South Africa and Francois Goldstein was certainly spoken of with some awe, not least for his robust tactics.

Nice to see the name Taifun appear again - I only ever had had one kart and it was a Taifun (+/- '73 /74, ex Carlheinz Peters I believe) - a lovely machine..! Anyone one know what happened to the marque?

[neville mackay]

Interesting to recall that Susy Raganelli beat none other than Ronnie Peterson into 2nd place in the 66 event! The Robardie kart which Goldstein subsequently used was designed by Ronnie's father, Bengt - Robardie standing for ROnnie, Bengt and ARDIE (who supplied the engines). Ronnie reputedly went out with Susy for a couple of years afterwards, until the delightful Barbro came on the scene.

[TFBundy]

Originally posted by Cirrus
Whilst on the subject of karting superstars who did not progress (all from the same era) how about

Mickey Allen - multi British Champion, 3 times on the podium in the WC

Mickey was a perennial karter through the '60s and '70s when he might have progressed professionally - he was determined to go on until he actually won a World Kart Championship [though he won absolutely everything else].

In the '80s he did a bit of production saloon racing in a Sierra Cosworth then was competitive in the UK Renault 5 Turbo one-make series [runner up in 1990]. I remember when he started he said he was a bit phased by Thruxton "'cos the corners weren't the sort of shape he was used to"

And what about David Ferris?

[Cirrus]

And what about David Ferris?

Dave Ferris was another British driver with the ability to win the World Kart Championship. He started in Formula Ford in about 1973 and was immediately competitive. Sadly, in an accident reminiscent of Helmut Marko's, a piece of concrete thrown up by another car pierced his visor and caused head injuries which left him blinded in one eye.

[Cirrus]

I only ever had had one kart and it was a Taifun (+/- '73 /74, ex Carlheinz Peters I believe)

Then it probably had the twin steering column arrangement (Peters semed to prefer that in spite of losing his front teeth on the higher wheel). I only drove that sort of Taifun once, and was staggered at how good it was.

[eldougo]

The WM- Kart company in Germany have one of there Models call ( Taifun) so in a round about way the name lives on
____________________________________________

Cirrus...... By mentioning that name Blackbushe sure brings back memories of cold wet days at that track.in the 70's for me.Great fun.

[Maldwyn]

Given the emphasis put on karting as a vital, or at least very important, stepping stone towards F1 it surprises me to see that Riccardo Patrese is the only karting champion (to date) to have won a Grand Prix No Senna or Schumacher in the list

[Cirrus]

cold wet days at that track.in the 70's

I was at Blackbushe just about every weekend, either testing or racing from 1971 to 1975, so maybe we got soaked together without realising it!

[barrykm]

Originally posted by Cirrus


Then it probably had the twin steering column arrangement (Peters semed to prefer that in spite of losing his front teeth on the higher wheel). I only drove that sort of Taifun once, and was staggered at how good it was.

Cirrus - yes it was the twin steering column model, much nicer to drive with the higher and near-vertical steering wheel, especially if one was a little taller than the ideal 100cc karter. Do you know what happened to Taifun?

[William Hunt]

François Goldman was a friend of my dad (who competed against him in karts and kept in touch with him), I will ask him about François and post it here.

[provapr]

As touched on above, I think there is definitely a linked thread in here somewhere - those who reigned supreme in karts but never quite translated that talent when it came to cars - and also vice versa. Here, in no particular order are a few - and some thoughts on them. Pure opinion of course;

1. Terry Fullerton. Genius in a half-face helmet, who plied his trade looking after the likes of Ralph Firman Jr, Mcnish, etc., after he retired, usually utilising chassis of his own making. Now to be found in USA, I believe. Brief flirtation with Swift in FF, but nothing really came of it.

2. Mike Wilson. Went to Italy to further his karting career - a move that paid handsome dividends. Didn't help when it came to cars, though.

3. Paul Rees. Was a Zip teammate of David Coulthard - and often blew him away in junior karting but never made it to any significant level in cars. Think he may have had a few more 'rougher edges' than DC...

4. Steve Brogan / Gary Moynihan. Veritable demi-gods in karts, but went to cars too late.

5. Graeme Melville. Scottish, faster than Dario Franchitti and when he won the British Junior Championship, the field included Guy Smith, Ralph Firman, Justin Wilson, Jamie Davies et al IIRC. Quite a line up when you think about it.

6. Oscar / Emily Newman. Both very good in karts - until the family money ran out. At the same time their father went away for an extended period...

One could go on and on.

[William Hunt]

Originally posted by provapr


2. Mike Wilson. Went to Italy to further his karting career - a move that paid handsome dividends. Didn't help when it came to cars, though.

Ayrton Senna once called Mike Wilson the best driver he ever saw. Wilson was possibly the best karting driver ever.

[char76]

As provapr correctly pointed out, Terry Fullerton has played a fundermental part in the education of some very fine drivers. This continues to this day; this year he has been helping the young Kiwi Wade Cunningham to become World Champion in the works CRG.
I will never forget being at a Langbaugh Super One (Britains Premier Class 1 Champoinship) weekend in 1990 IIRC. TF was helping out some young hot shot and for some reason or another on the Friday Fullerton found himself running in a motor for his charge. Word spread round the paddock like wild fire. Slowly he ran in the engine, came back to the pits, checked the engine (sure to have been a Rotax at the time) and went back out for a few quickies in front of the growing crowd. What followed was shear class. Not outrageously quick, just grace. Coming into the long bottom bend by the dummey grid, slowely lowering his right from the steering wheel to choke the motor with his head hanging back to the left, so nonchalantly. Wonderful stuff.
On the Sunday, if i am not mistaken the "Super" class was on by Richard Wetherall sp?. I know he did make the transition to cars but never with the success one would have imagined having seen him in Karts.
One final thought. Not wanting to split hairs, but for a few years in the eighties, wasn't the World Champs a 135cc Formula K class, with Formula A 100cc being for new talent on the International scene? Please Correct me.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Cirrus

I suppose, that being from the North West, you might never have ventured as far south as Blackbushe, and pitted the DAB Mk2 against the Cirrus 001, 002 or 003?

I was still a southerner before 1976, but I seemed to have missed Blackbush. You would have come across me mainly at Shenington and Little Rissington, in 250 International initially, then 210 National. The DAB karts didn't happen until I became a northerner.

[David Beard]

Getting back to Goldstein: he doesn't seem to have been at all popular.

From a report on the 1975 European championships....

As Fullerton gave a brief feint to one side then went to pass on the other, it was all too much for Goldstein and he deliberately locked his kart into the Briton so they both ground to a halt. It looked like an action replay of the recent meeting in France when Goldstein had his face punched by the angry French champion Prost and as Terry's arm came up so the crowd licked its lips, for the Belgian has few friends. Getting his priorities right, Fullerton turned to his kart, push started it and got away to reach the chequered flag in front of Goldstein and as soon as they reached the weighing in enclosure they were kept well apart by team mates.

[Cirrus]

To its eternal shame, the magazine took against him

and here's the evidence.....

As Fullerton gave a brief feint to one side then went to pass on the other, it was all too much for Goldstein and he deliberately locked his kart into the Briton so they both ground to a halt. It looked like an action replay of the recent meeting in France when Goldstein had his face punched by the angry French champion Prost and as Terry's arm came up so the crowd licked its lips, for the Belgian has few friends. Getting his priorities right, Fullerton turned to his kart, push started it and got away to reach the chequered flag in front of Goldstein and as soon as they reached the weighing in enclosure they were kept well apart by team mates.

You are correct, char76 - in the mid 80's 135cc was the top class. Your description of Terry Fullerton's driving was spot on. In karting the style of a particular driver is plain for all to see. Goldstein's tactics were sometimes questionable, but his relaxed style at the wheel of a kart was fantastic.



Fullerton (20) vs Goldstein (1) 1973

[David Beard]

European Championships, Rye House, 1973....

[neville mackay]

I've always thought it rather sad that the Rye House European Championship event in 73 was virtually the last decent international event to be held in the UK. British karting somehow never rose above its grubby fingernails roots in the same way as its European neighbours. Reasons? Well, the circuit owners seemed perfectly happy to take all the profits for their own gain rather than invest in developing decent facilities. The RAC stood inactive in the face of constant rule changes that only served the short term interests of the manufacturers; and the sport itself was characterised by a total lack of leadership or sense of collective development. By the mid 80's karting in the UK was on its feet. It was only the development of Cadet racing, allied to the indoor karting boom, that saved it from total oblivion. And it was really only with the redevelopment of Buckmore Park and the building of PF International in the 90's that the sport gave its competitors and spectators something more than a glorified rubbish tip to race on.

[eldougo]

" and the sport itself was characterised by a total lack of leadership or sense of collective development"____________________________________________

That statement by Neville Mackay sounds just like Kart racing in OZ today some things don't
change do they

[Doug Nye]

I never got any kind of grip upon understanding kart racing. I was neither attracted nor impressed by the machines themselves and the racing on such tiddly tracks struck me as a deafening, mind-numbing blur. Different, of course, if you could recognise some of the runners involved but they all looked the same to this uninterested casual observer.

However - I was also press officer at Brands Hatch at a couple of 1960s kart meetings which were run on the Club circuit.

And I must admit I found them truly fantastic! I really enjoyed them - though my most vivid memory is of a kart hurtling straight on at what was then called Bottom Bend, bounding over the tuffety rough, tripping, and then somersaulting about ten times to end up near the tunnel on top of Paddock Hill - its driver carwheeled through the air for about 30-40 yards and landed in a crumpled heap. I think he escaped with nothing worse than a winged collar bone and bruises - but boy! It was spectacular...

Karts on full-sized motor racing circuits - now they looked right. Did they not run at Spa on one or more occasions???? Or does my memory again play me false????

DCN

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Karts on full-sized motor racing circuits - now they looked right. Did they not run at Spa on one or more occasions???? Or does my memory again play me false????

DCN

I can remember sometime in the seventies Autosport gave long circuit karting a right bashing when there were a few races at Brands integrated with car meetings. The karters caused lots of hold ups while some serious accidents were cleared up. The line taken was that they had no business on car racing circuits...not being belted in stuff. At the time I wondered if the author had ever seen sidecar racing.....

I don't know about Spa, but Reg Gange, Dave Buttigieg and co, neck and neck through Eau Rouge would have been worth watching.

[neville mackay]

Someone out there must be gagging to write the long overdue history of British kart racing - and what a story it would tell! Want to get your own back on a faster competitor? Pour a bucket of urine over him! Want to register your unhappines with your engine tuner's efforts? Chuck the engine through his caravan window! Want to register your concern with the clerk of the course? Break his jaw! Want an incompetent bunch of vested interests to run the sport? Set up a kart club!

I probably raced in more than 300 karting events throughout the UK on and off over a 15 year period. I enjoyed every second of it. But I frequently dispaired for the future of a sport that always seemed to suceed in spite of itself. Is there any other branch of motorsport that is more badly organised, badly run and badly promoted? I doubt it!

[Cirrus]

I would agree with all of that. An authoritative history of kart racing would be a very entertaining read (although sorting out fact from folklore might be difficult).

Here are a couple of additional anecdotes which give a flavour of the sport in the past. I started karting as a junior in the early seventies. Most meetings comprised three heats and a final, and it was guaranteed that there would be a race-stopping first corner shunt in the junior final. One kid was universally unpopular (karting veterans will know the type - lots of money, ignorant loud mouthed dad etc). Anyway, this lad always wore a purple crash helmet. After one particularly lurid red flag incident, a fellow competitor beckoned me over and said "here - look at this". He lifted the front of his kart, and there, running the full length of his undertray was a large purple smear. He never removed it - it was a kind of badge of pride. I've seen one driver punch another on the helmet in the middle of a race - it had the desired effect, the recipient ended up in the straw bales. At Blackbushe, where I mostly raced, the first injured driver would be taken to hospital in a St John's ambulance, later ones would suffer the indignity of a ride in the back of an oily transit.

It were a tough life - but we were 'appy.

A final thought for Southern-based racers - Was "Dartford" Jim the most miserable man in the world?

[choochoo]

One of the best kart races of all time was the final at the World Champs in Nivelles in 1973 between Terry Fullerton and Francois Goldstein........two bulls in the china cabinet !

[TFBundy]

Originally posted by Cirrus
Was "Dartford" Jim the most miserable man in the world?

Certainly he made the repercharge!

Oddly Jim was twice very chatty and friendly to me, once when I went into the shop in a business suit and once at Tilbury when he had a sink plunger in his hand and was trying to reconnect the Nissan hut with the Thames estuary [ugh!]

But ..... I drove through Wembley, North West London, last night and saw a "Ferrari" estate agent's board which uses the same script as the car brand....

I was told years ago the estate agents were something to do with Bruno Ferrari who was "Ferrari Karting" in Harrow from the '60s onwards [later with his daughter] and I was told that Bruno F was part of Enzo F's family. Is that so?

[Cirrus]

I was told that Bruno F was part of Enzo F's family. Is that so?

I had heard that as well. I can remember ringing Bruno Ferrari's company in the seventies and being told in a very strong Italian accent "Mr Ferrari - he no in !" I heard that Bruno F was very unwell a few years ago, and I am not sure he is still with us.

[David McKinney]

No connection was ever suggested when he first started racing (before karting was invented) in an AC, IIRC

[Muzza]

Originally posted by neville mackay
(...) Is there any other branch of motorsport that is more badly organised, badly run and badly promoted? I doubt it!

Hello, Neville,


Having been to kart races in South America, Europe and North America I know what you mean... And this is one of the things that set racing in Brazil apart from other countries, as down there things have been the opposite: the karting scene has been very well organied for a long, long while, whilst the rest of motorsports remained a freaking mess!

It was only recently, maybe for the last ten years, that the CBA (maximum racing organizing body) did get a grip on all categories, begun to put some sense into calendars, improve promotion across categories and so forth. Until then, only karting was seriously managed. I am sure this is one of the most important reasons for the success of so many Brazilian former karters in the international (car) scene, and they are well formed at an early age.

Mark my words: as many of you surely know, karting is booming in the United States - and there is lot of very, very talented kids coming up the ranks. I will be not surprised if a few American drivers score big in Formula 1 in some eight, ten years... (this if the abominable pressure from the US press and sponsors don't burn them first, as it so usual here).

What about "Guga" Ribas? The only Brazilian to win a Karting World Championship, he was somewhat of a front-runner in the Brazilian Formula Ford Championship in the late 1980s, and then disappeared from the screen... I feel like he was another victim of "The Next Fittipaldi Barrage" made by the Brazilian racing press, and there was a lot of unnecessary pressure on him. Guga also seemed to lack regularity, consistency, what is a common issue to karters, as kart races allow for more mistakes (it easier to make up) - and kart races are shorter races too...

(About "The Next Fittipaldi Barrage", this sick attitude has lurking around since 01 May 1994 as the "New Senna Curse". Poor Felipe Massa, I feel for him. You folks that don't read the Brazilian press cannot imagine the number of rubbish articles printed in Brazil hailing him as "the perfect mix of Fangio, Clark and Senna" - as I read, literally, a few weeks ago. The Brazilian tv - nothing more than a bunch of fanatic supporters/hooligans equipped with a microphone - is even worse).

[Frank de Jong]

Originally posted by neville mackay
I remember seeing him race one year - possibly 76 - in the Spa 24 hours, but he didn't make a go of car racing for some reason.

Some of you probably expected me to look up if Goldstein occurred in my records
He did. Het raced a group 1 capri 3000 in the 1973 edition of the Spa 24 hours, partnering Claude Dewael of later Luigi fame. He finished 8th (6th in group 1), nothing to be ashamed of. They were 32nd on the grid.
I had him listed as "Goldstein" only so thanks for adding another detail in my quest for the holy grail of touring car racing...