45 replies to this topic

[indycarjunkie]

Just got done watching a Speed Channel special on Jackie Stewart. Very well done and it is well worth seeing. You get to see a glimpse of his private life away from racing which is cool.

Speed will re-broadcast it tonight at 1am Eastern. It may be on again at other times and days, but I don't know when. I'd like to add that with Stacy Keech's "Champions Forever" to my christmas list.

[SKL]

Just watched most of it- great old footage- especially enjoyed the interviews with Graham Hill. All the stuff with Cevert is still hard to watch... he's had an incredible career especially considering how dangerous it was "back then." Recommend to anyone on the replays if they missed it.

[TedN]

"Jackie Stewart - The Flying Scot" on SPEED Dec. 7 (Times Eastern)

Sunday, December 7, 2003
8:00 pm Jackie Stewart - The Flying Scot
1:00 am Jackie Stewart - The Flying Scot

Monday, December 8, 2003
1:00 pm Jackie Stewart - The Flying Scot

Saturday, December 13, 2003
9:00 pm Jackie Stewart - The Flying Scot
2:00 am Jackie Stewart - The Flying Scot

This film provides a fascinating look at the life of one of Britain’s all-time great sporting personalities. Family photographs and home movies combine with contributions from friends and colleagues to create a compelling account of this remarkable man, his life and achievements.

[Rob G]

I saw it last night and was impressed, although I was surprised that they didn't even touch on the loss of his friends Piers Courage and Jochen Rindt when safety was being discussed.

[911]

Terrific stuff. My wife even enjoyed the program. Some people here may agree or disagree with some of his opinions, but the man is a legend. Personally, I've always enjoyed his commentaries on ABC & ESPN. I'll never forget his broadcast of the 1987 British GP. When Mansell made that move on Piquet, JYS was definitely excited!

[911]

I forgot to add that the part of Cevert was pretty hard to watch, too. That was the first time that I've seen any type of footage from that race. I'll never forget the reaction from Colin Chapman & Peter Warr. Racing back in the 50s, 60s & 70s must have been tough for everyone involved (due to the fatality rate).

Cevert kind of reminds me of the Grand Prix movie character, Nino Barlini, as he was a good looking guy with a lot of charisma. JYS certainly felt he had the ability to become France's first WDC. Francois would have made a great "People's" type of champion, IMHO.

911

[MarkWRX]

Happened to see an ad for the show while channel surfing. Caught parts of it between dealing with dinner and the family, so Tivo'd the midnight (central time) repeat. From what I saw it was a great show. I especially liked the part where Cevert was going over (I think) what gear for what corner and JYS had this incredible laser like focus on him. At one point, Cevert said "Second" and JYS immediately said, firmly "No, first) and a second later looked to the side to see that someone was listening in (Helmut Marko I think) and motioned for Cevert to stop talking.

I miss Cevert a lot, but it was great to see the special and hear Stewart's candid comments.

Mark

[TedN]

Looks like you can get this program on DVD HERE

Ted

[F1Johnny]

What I saw of it was great. Hope they repeat it a lot. What was so interesting was JYS upset at Paul trying his hand at racing. He really did not want him to do it and then their candidness about his lack of skill and committment.

Great feature of a great champion. Classy guy.

[biercemountain]

Seeing Rubens in his Stuart driving suit reminded me of how much his career was helped during his time at the team. His 2nd place at Monaco in the driving rain was really something special. Probably sweeter than Herberts gifted win.

Smart boy that Rubens for bailing when the team changed to Jaguar. "Better to serve in Heaven than rule in Hell" as good ol Milton would say.

What Stuart accomplished as a team owner in F1 was really mind-boggling. Especially when you consider that titans like Ford and Honda have failed dismally to match his success much less surpass it.

[dick]

I particularly liked his telling of his accident at Spa. Sitting in fuel, having to borrow a wrench from a spectator and then the botched ambulance ride to the hospital. If things were like that today I wonder if anyone would drive in F1. What they went through then was incredible. And the cars were fast...I think they still hit like 175 MPH on the straights at Spa with no protection whatsoever.

[agni]

I was fascinated by the fact that Jackie seemed more stressed out by owning/running the team than ever was when he was driving. It just shows that the pressures in F1 are far greater than what you see on camera.
They seem to have a modest amount of success as an F1 team, makes me wonder if they sold to Ford under pressure.

[senna da silva]

Originally posted by biercemountain
What Stuart accomplished as a team owner in F1 was really mind-boggling. Especially when you consider that titans like Ford and Honda have failed dismally to match his success much less surpass it.

I believe it is because it takes passion to succeed in F1, something the comglomerates lack.

If you ever get the chance you must read Jackie Stewarts book "Faster". It is a diary type autobiography and deals with some real highs and lows towards the end of his career.

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by dick
I think they still hit like 175 MPH on the straights at Spa with no protection whatsoever.

Faster than that, they hit 190mph at Monza in the late 1960's. Men from the boys time.

[MrJ]

What a great program!

I already knew Jackie Stewart was widely regarding as one of the greatest drivers in F1 history. That helped me to appreciate the man rather than the driver.

The biggest thing I got out of that program was not an appreciation of Jackie Stewart, however, but that for Ken Tyrell. That man seemed to me to be the epitomy of class, and the scenes with Jackie and Ken sitting in the shed reminescing about the old days, with the knowledge that Ken Tyrell has passed away, were very sad. Kind of hard to know why, as I started following motorsports very recently.

Regards,

Mr.J

[Arioch]

I saw the first half of the program last night on the replay. What I saw was fantastic! Highly reccomended. I saw video of several of the wrecks when they were first touching on the lack of safety, and some of them seemed far too horrific! I don't think I could have forced myself to participate in F1 if that was the state of safety then... JS, and all the other drivers of that time get a BIG from me!

-dave

[Buford]

Originally posted by Arioch
I saw the first half of the program last night on the replay. What I saw was fantastic! Highly reccomended. I saw video of several of the wrecks when they were first touching on the lack of safety, and some of them seemed far too horrific! I don't think I could have forced myself to participate in F1 if that was the state of safety then... JS, and all the other drivers of that time get a BIG from me!

-dave

The thing to realize for those who are amazed at how dangerous it was then, is in every era it was ALWAYS safer than it had been a few years before. It was a matter of perspective. And as bad and unsafe as the cars were then, they were state of the art and much safer than they ever had been previously.

Stewart and others were the very first to actually make a fuss about safety in the whole history of the sport. It was a time when the idea racing should be safe was just at the beginning infancy of taking hold. Had you been around then Arioch, you would have shook off the disaters like we all did and moved on. We didn't even WANT it totally safe then. Because we knew what would happen if it was ever safe, is what we have today. Anybody can do it and everybody crashes because there is no fear of not seeing the next sunrise. We didn't want just any Tom, Dick, and Harry to do it. Just the cool guys. We thought everywhere else is safe. There should be one place that is dangerous, and this it it! It is very life enhancing never knowing if you will still be alive past the next weekend. Helps your focus... you know?

I am watching the show right now. I always had the hots for Helen!

[Estwald]

Just to echo the above statements. It was a very good program.

I found JYS's comments that he never even had a contract with Ken Tyrrell except for F3 very interesting. Speaks volumes about their relationship.

[Bladrian]

Originally posted by Estwald
Just to echo the above statements. It was a very good program.

I found JYS's comments that he never even had a contract with Ken Tyrrell except for F3 very interesting. Speaks volumes about their relationship.

It says more about Ken than Jackie, always a hardnosed businessman ..... the remarkable thing was that there were two team managers, not one, whose word was better than any contract you cared to put to paper. The other one was, of course, Rob Walker.

[Alfisti]

Quality television, misse dthe 2nd half but i'll catch it on Saturday ... sometimes SPEED is better in the off season!

[Option1]

Originally posted by Alfisti
Quality television, misse dthe 2nd half but i'll catch it on Saturday ... sometimes SPEED is better in the off season!

Add in "Victory by Design" and the Goodwood programs and I'd say most times.

To follow up on Buford's points about safety, I think where JYS's contributions stand out most is in track safety in particular. It has led to some great improvement, particularly in the areas of marshalls and speed-on-the-scene of medical and fire crews. Unfortunately, it's also led to Tilke tracks, acres and acres of sandpits (every track except Monaco looks like Bahrain) and spectators sitting about a mile from most action. Oh and I think they used to have passing that didn't involve pushing someone out of the way first once upon a time.

Neil

[Buford]

Yeah unfortunately Stewart's original extremely necessary push for better safety has 30 years later ultimately resulted in turning the sport into a shadow of its former self. But a lot of that occurred because people changed. The racers of the 1950s and 1960s were in the USA anyway primarily grizzled World War II veterans. Many of the drivers had been fighter pilots. Everybody had seen much worse things than any of the occasional slaughter at a race track. Before the war they had gone through the Great Depression. These were very tough dudes. Most of them were lightly educated and racing was a place where if you were good, and you raced several times a week, you could make a decent living. War wasn't safe, it always happened to the other guy, and it was no big deal if they lost a few a year. It made room for the rookies.

In the late 1950s when our quarter midget club was considering putting roll bars on the cars, it was almost evenly divided between the folks who wanted to better protect their children and those who thought putting a roll bar on their child's car would make it less safe! I recall the screaming argument one night that went on for hours in the other room while the fathers discussed the roll bar issue and we kids played in the next room. We only did it when USAC made roll bars mandatory about 1959 and we followed the lead of the pros.

We knew Jackie Stewart at Indy. He asked my dad in 1966 to take a picture of him on the track before the race and if we could get a good shot, on the track during the race. He didn't have any pictures of the car on the track. He gave us his address to mail them and said to send as many copies as we wanted that he would autograph and send back. He next went to Spa and had the accident described in the film we are discussing. We did not hear anything back for several months and we were worried about him. Press reports indicated he was not badly injured, but it was actually pretty bad. Finally about October we got a package from Scotland with the autographed photos and an apology letter from his secretary explaining Jackie had been injured shortly after Indy (as if we didn't know) and he was just getting back to business now and he was very happy with his pictures. I still have the letter.

Nobody else agrees with me but today racing is too safe. The teeth gnashing and blame finger pointing every time there is a fatality today is uniquely the product of a different breed of people who follow the sport today than the World War II veterans and their offspring that made the sport happen in the 1950s and 1960s. Jackie Stewart made a major contribution to the sport by pushing the safety issue. But I do believe they have taken it way too far today.

[Arrows4Ever]

Originally posted by TedN
Looks like you can get this program on DVD HERE

Ted

Only PAL!
No NTSC!

[dick]

Buford,
I can't agree with you on this one. Granted today's tracks suck, but if there were the same amount of fatalities as there was in the '60s I wouldn't be a fan. After Senna died I lost interest for quite awhile. I still don't have near the passion for F1. Half the reason I hate NASCAR is there is too many wrecks. I want to see racing not crashing. Maybe some races get boring, but better that than deaths. Hopefully we've become more civilized since the '50s.

[Buford]

The human in me agrees but the racer in me says it is supposed to be dangerous. This is not chess. It is not that I want to see people injured or killed. I want to see them RISK it. Racing is more thrilling for people who can't do it than for those who can (or could). But it is thrilling for everybody when there is a realistic expectation not everyone will come back.

When you go to the circus, if the tightrope walker has a net, it is a skilled activity and you are interested. But it does not send a chill down your spine. You frankly don't really care if they make it or not because they have a safety net. But if there is no net, your heart is in your mouth all the way. It is a vicarious thrill of the likes that is worth every penny to see. You take every step with the daredevil and you wish and hope and pray they WILL make it to the other side. You don't want to see them fall and die like Karl Wallenda. Of course not. But you are on the edge of your seat watching them RISK it.

You don't want to see Robbie Knevel fall into the canyon. You want to see him make it to the other side. But if the canyon was filled with marshmallows, who cares if he jumps the canyon? It is the element of risk that made racing the most thrilling activity that I have ever watched and participated it. Today the risk is greatly reduced as it should be. But in doing so, it took away the thrill. It took away the vicarious thrill and exposed one of racing's two dirty little secrets. Driving a race car is not all that hard. But driving a race car that could become a fireball (did that myself) at a moment's notice and there isn't even a fire crew around if it does, well THAT was worth every penny and more to see. Because when it didn't happen, but could have... well that was where the thrill came from. Racing used to be more interesting than what is the dimensions of the latest barge board on one of the cars. But as I said, nobody agrees with me and so be it. In today's world where everybody wants to be a victim, to put racing back to the blood sport it was for 70 years would just enrich the lawyers.

[BlackCat]

Buford,
my first personal favorite in F1 was Rindt, the next one was Cevert, i was quite mad on that day when news came from USGP, i liked Stewart and i can understand why he quit when he quit - but somehow i consider him a traitor. no (fatal) risk means no sport. (yes, i've seen acquaintances getting killed or killing spectators on race track. and i got injured, racing, gave up racing because of that, so i'm a chicken...)

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Buford
Nobody else agrees with me but today racing is too safe. The teeth gnashing and blame finger pointing every time there is a fatality today is uniquely the product of a different breed of people who follow the sport today than the World War II veterans and their offspring that made the sport happen in the 1950s and 1960s. Jackie Stewart made a major contribution to the sport by pushing the safety issue. But I do believe they have taken it way too far today.

Originally posted by dick
Buford,
I can't agree with you on this one. Granted today's tracks suck, but if there were the same amount of fatalities as there was in the '60s I wouldn't be a fan. After Senna died I lost interest for quite awhile. I still don't have near the passion for F1. Half the reason I hate NASCAR is there is too many wrecks. I want to see racing not crashing. Maybe some races get boring, but better that than deaths. Hopefully we've become more civilized since the '50s.

I happen to agree with Buford in the sense that there is very little fear flickering in the back of today's racers that tells them to behave and not make any really boneheaded moves since it might do more than hurt just a little bit. As the Law of Unanticipated Consequences once again reminds us, making racing safer didn't necessarily make it better.

Some activities are inherently dangerous. Motor racing is one of them. Flying is another. So is crab fishing off the coast of Alaska. I always admired Stewart for speaking out and saying what needed to be said. The medical facilities at most tracks were as abysmal as Stewart described them, although several did have top notch facilities -- on both sides of the Atlantic.

Today there seems to be a given in most racing series that it is okay to get a bit "physical" since the consequences are generally just a DNF and not a KIA. NASCAR is not the only sanctioning body with this problem.

I do take exception to the remark about today being more civilized than the '50s. It does not appear that all that much progress has really been made in certain areas.

I really enjoyed the film -- despite the seemingly countless interruptions for endless numbers of commercials. Jackie Stewart, on the few occasions I was fortunate to speak with him, was an absolute pro -- and also very human. He was called away before we finished an interview and said he would look me up and finish it. I remember thinking, "Yeah, right! I've heard that one before!" And, after thrashing the ill-handling Lola about Road Atlanta, Stewart saw me standing in the pits talking with someone (I think it was Francois Cevert) and waved at me as he passed to come down to his pit. And he and I finished the interview.

Why he is so often overlooked by folks today is a complete mystery to me. He and Stirling Moss were the first truly Professional Racing Drivers in the modern sense of the word. More than a few have copied and imitated those two, but only a very, very few have been as equally Professional -- Mario Andretti being one of those.

I am glad they included Jimmie and his sons in the story as well as Lady Helen -- as Buford says, she was quite something then and still is today.

[jondoe955]

Intellectually, we know Buford is right. Racing is now about committees and lawyers and sponsors. Drivers are no longer the giants of yesterday, and the racing is a ghost of what it once was. But danger must be balanced. Of the three Glen GP's I went to in the early 70's, two deaths occurred.

I'd also rather see a Lord Hesketh or Ken in his shed than see Shummi and Ferrari winning six titles.

And a big to SPEED for this show - and others. I take back most of what I said about nascar-tv when it changed. May they continue to have the heart and cash flow to show us the things that no one cares about in the States!

[JacnGille]

Originally posted by Buford
Nobody else agrees with me but today racing is too safe. The teeth gnashing and blame finger pointing every time there is a fatality today is uniquely the product of a different breed of people who follow the sport today than the World War II veterans and their offspring that made the sport happen in the 1950s and 1960s. Jackie Stewart made a major contribution to the sport by pushing the safety issue. But I do believe they have taken it way too far today.

Originally posted by Buford
The human in me agrees but the racer in me says it is supposed to be dangerous. This is not chess. It is not that I want to see people injured or killed. I want to see them RISK it. Racing is more thrilling for people who can't do it than for those who can (or could). But it is thrilling for everybody when there is a realistic expectation not everyone will come back.

Your 100% correct Buford. The risk has been greatly diminished. The "penalties" for mistakes just aren't the same anymore. No one, I hope, wants to see the return of 4 ft diameter trees or stone walls 3 feet off the edge of the track or ravines without any Armco. However, the extra pavement at the exits of corners or paved runoff areas, so that drivers can continue on after failing to "keep it on the island" have, as you said, taken the risks out of racing. And again, as you said, no one wants to see the carnage of the earlier years. But the thrill has been removed. Dramatic passes still exist. The strategy remains. The tecnology remains. But, as the old song says, The Thrill Is Gone.

[Uncle Davy]

Re JYS's advice to son Paul,"Never do business on a Friday", or some such. So tomorrow, I'll just **** off...

[dick]

I'll never forget seeing a plane crash at an airshow. The poor pilot engulfed in a burning cockpit. I've never been able to enjoy an airshow again and I used to attend many. Call me a wimp, but the danger aspect of auto racing has no appeal for me.

[arcwulf7]

Great show, some great one liners from Ken Tyrrel, Jackie, Graham Hill. Jackie was straight forward about how unpopular his safety campaign had made him in the late 60s. But you only have to watch some of the complete incompetence of untrained marshals unwilling or unable to extinguish burning wreckages, the lethal track set ups to see how ingrained the culture of 2 or 3 deaths a year as being part of the cost of doing business.. heck maybe good for business had become.

[917k]

Some of you romantics miss the point on safety.If F1 returned to the glory days,when 1 in 3 driver's didn't survive the season,then F1 would die a rapid and publically scathing death.

No network would carry it,no sponsor would want to be involved in it,no investor would put their money in it.
On top of that,you would revert to the ''hardcore'' fanbase,those willing to put up with the bloodsport aspect.

Yes,perhaps its a bit sad that the sport has been sanitized,safety wise.But we must remember,the world has moved on,what is acceptible has changed,and f1[through necessity]has changed as well.

It may be lamentable but it is logical and unescapable.

[F1Johnny]

I am on the fence a bit with the safety issues. I agree that motor racing is dangerous and the risk of being hurt is one of the elements that makes one want to do it and watch it, but the consequences of that risk can be so high. When Senna was killed, I believe everyone had become very complacent which is why it was such a shock.

Right now F1 is very safe for the driver, but if one considers Ralf's accident this year in testing, it was quite serious. In the 70's, 80's and early 90's he would have been killed. I think it is important to have that level of safety built into the car, rather than not, making the thrill of the risk more of a focus.

The problem now is that drivers only fear the dressing down they may receive from their team rather than the risk of breaking a limb when they make a bone head move. BUT how do you withdraw safety advancements at this stage, or do you make the cars faster but maintain the current safety standards to force the driver to be more physically aware of the consequences of his actions.

Track safety is critical however and the 2 deaths at Melbourne and Monza illustrate this.

[Buford]

Well I am being inconsistent and I know it. On TNF when everybody was brow beating me to turn the family 30-year racing photo collection over to the Watkins Glen museum I was saying I owe nothing to this sport. It killed all my heroes and all my friends and tried to kill me a million times. Then over here I am saying body count is just part of the game and there should be one place left in a cradle to grave sanitized world where crazy people can do crazy things without hand wringers and bleeding hearts telling them they can't because it offends their sensibilities seeing entrails splattered on the blacktop.

So if it is OK for women to think that way I guess in a world of sanitized equality I should get to be inconsistent too. Intellectually I think it should be safe because human beings are sacred and all that stuff. Spiritually I am indeed a romanticist I guess about racing. It would not bother me at all if the sport I have loved since birth, my first race at 11 days old, went down the tubes today like it is in the USA other than NASCAR.

It would not bother me at all if the sponsors went away, the TV went away, and the current fans went away. It would not bother me at all if nobody had any money anymore to screw up the cars so any pretty boy can drive them and nobody can pass because the equipment is too good. It would not bother me at all if racing went back to a blood sport with just the people who can stomach it watching it. It would not bother me at all if the Johnny-Come-Lately internet experts went off to watch a short pants sport and let the real men be men.

In my opinion the worst thing that ever happened to this sport is when people with sweaters tied around their shoulders and designer sunglasses propped up on their heads showed up and thought the whole thing was being staged for THEM!!!

[917k]

Originally posted by Buford
Well I am being inconsistent and I know it. On TNF when everybody was brow beating me to turn the family 30-year racing photo collection over to the Watkins Glen museum I was saying I owe nothing to this sport. It killed all my heroes and all my friends and tried to kill me a million times. Then over here I am saying body count is just part of the game and there should be one place left in a cradle to grave sanitized world where crazy people can do crazy things without hand wringers and bleeding hearts telling them they can't because it offends their sensibilities seeing entrails splattered on the blacktop.

So if it is OK for women to think that way I guess in a world of sanitized equality I should get to be inconsistent too. Intellectually I think it should be safe because human beings are sacred and all that stuff. Spiritually I am indeed a romanticist I guess about racing. It would not bother me at all if the sport I have loved since birth, my first race at 11 days old, went down the tubes today like it is in the USA other than NASCAR.

It would not bother me at all if the sponsors went away, the TV went away, and the current fans went away. It would not bother me at all if nobody had any money anymore to screw up the cars so any pretty boy can drive them and nobody can pass because the equipment is too good. It would not bother me at all if racing went back to a blood sport with just the people who can stomach it watching it. It would not bother me at all if the Johnny-Come-Lately internet experts went off to watch a short pants sport and let the real men be men.

In my opinion the worst thing that ever happened to this sport is when people with sweaters tied around their shoulders and designer sunglasses propped up on their heads showed up and thought the whole thing was being staged for THEM!!!

Sounds like you are looking for something like short-track racing.No sponsors[per se]no TV,small crowds and no poseurs and prima donna's.

[Buford]

You know you have hit the nail right on the head 917K. The racing I like the most now is Midgets and Sprint Cars (non Wing) and my new love just discovered last year - the Super Modifieds. The Super Modifieds are unbelieveable. When 24 of them took off last year at Las Vegas Speedway and the roar was so loud the sound waves literally shook the grandstand, pounded on your chest, and set off car alarms in the parking lot I said to myself, "Holy ****!!! This is the real thing!!!"

[MarkWRX]

Dick wrote:

I'll never forget seeing a plane crash at an airshow. The poor pilot engulfed in a burning cockpit. I've never been able to enjoy an airshow again and I used to attend many. Call me a wimp, but the danger aspect of auto racing has no appeal for me.

I tend to agree. In my 4th or 5th year as an SCCA corner worker, we had an incident at a historic race the SCCA was working. We knew it was serious right away and the radio calls became more intense. We were ordered to prepare for a medivac, which we did. About 5 minutes later, we were told the medivac was cancelled and given a code word to switch to a different frequency and informed that the driver had died. I remember having to kneel down as I felt nauseous and I was afraid I was going to get sick in front of spectators.

A few minutes later, the ambulance carrying the driver's body slowy went past and we all stood and took off our caps.

That incident really made me think hard about being a race official. Ultimately, I decided that contributing my time to possibly be instrumental in preventing an incident, or promptly reacting to one, outweighed my participation in a "blood sport."

Mark

[Buford]

I have no problem with anything they do to the cars to make them more safe. I have no problem with anything they do in the way of maximizing the effectiveness of safety crews. When I flipped my Sprint Car and blew up in a fireball in 1979, there was no safety or fire crew at all! A guy from the infield, a spectator ran through the 50 yard wall of flames and pulled me out and several minutes later a couple fat guys in regular fireman raincoats and hats ran across the infiled with two fire extinguishers, one of which didn't work. We were throwing dirt on the car!

I guess my problem is I will grant you the safest cars, I will grant you the best safety crews. What I can't stand is what they have done to the tracks. There was nothing wrong with the corner where Senna got killed. Berger had a huge crash there and big fire, and the marshalls did a brilliant job and saved his life. Now THAT was impressive. Senna got unlucky and got hit in the head by something. Looking back at the cars they ran then and there was a much lower cockpit side than today. The driver was much less protected. But that is what the fans have always wanted. To see the drivers at work. When the rear engine cars replaced the roadsters in Indy car racing in the mid 1960s, one of the biggest complaints was the drivers were lying down and you could no longer see them. Today all you can see is their heads. So be it.

But damn, leave something to hit! Leave some risk. They emasculated the corner where Senna got killed rather than just improve cockpit safety. When Cevert got killed we saw in the film, for years they had a rinky dink chicanne before the uphill esses. Thankfully eventually removed. LeMans? Sucks with the chicanes. And all the new tracks, sandbox racing. Too slow, no fast sweepers, nowhere to pass, nothing to hit at speed.

I say make the cars as safe as possible. But let them race on real tracks with fast corners and something off the side at a reasonable distance to hit. That would be the reasonable compromise between safety and crazy racing as it always has been. Make the drivers at least a little bit worried about something other than how good they look on camera.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by 917k
Some of you romantics miss the point on safety.If F1 returned to the glory days,when 1 in 3 driver's didn't survive the season,then F1 would die a rapid and publically scathing death.

I think you are victim of your own hyperbole here. The "1 in 3" statistic simply doesn't hold water when the facts are checked. As deadly as the sport was, to imply there was a 33% fatality rate on an annual basis is ridiculous. However, not everyone who raced was going of old age either.

Safety had been an issue long before Stewart finally dug his heels and made it an Issue. The problem was a simple dearth of information -- aside from the blindingly obvious such no trees a meter or so off the straight -- on how to make it safer since there were no end of opinions on how to do that. Those of us who recall the mixed record of The Armco Era shiver at some of what happened despite the best of intentions.

I spent my entire adult life in an inherently dangerous business and witnessed more deaths in the course of that career than I would like to think about -- including several in my command that still bother me. I watched a very good friend and his aircraft and crew simply fall out of the sky when transmission seized, killing three of the four aboard. Plus, I watched a C-130 crash at Fort Bragg during a demo that killed almost the entire crew. I sent one of my captains to Ranger School and he died of hypothermia. And on and on. Peacetime or Wartime, soldiers still die. However, we do everything we can to eliminate or reduce the risks -- but they are still there. We just learn to deal with it. Things happen and such is life. But, you never get used to it when death intervenes.

I don't think this is very far from how those who raced in the past approached the sport. You do what you can, you hone your skills, you simply do better, and then hope it all falls into place.

Once again I am in agreement with Buford. Making the cars safe is not a discussion item. However, the circuits themselves is another. Perhaps in a world defined by litigation such thoughts are stillborn.

[Dave Ware]

Since you can get killed doing anything - driving to work, walking up and down the stairs, crossing a street, etc., etc. - why single out the risk in motor racing as being unusual and therefore something to be avoided?

Several years ago, a few blocks from my house, a man was standing in his backyard. Got hit by lightening and was killed.

I worked with a woman whose brother was killed when a freakin' airplane fell on the hotel he was staying in.

Life is dangerous and can kill you. So why not go racing?

Glad to have you back, Buford. And I agree on all counts. Especially - make the cars as safe as possible, but leave us Eau Rouge, etc.

BTW, I've taped "The Flying Scot" but haven't had time to watch it yet. Am looking forward to it.

Dave

[Eric McLoughlin]

Don - was that C-130 accident the one where the payload extraction system ended up fouling the lowered ramp?

What were the exact causes of that accident?

Looking at the video it seemed that the Herc had too fast a rate of descent as it dived down to the release altitude.

[TedN]

Looks like this DVD will be available in North America this spring according to THIS ARTICLE

Ted

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Dave Ware
Since you can get killed doing anything - driving to work, walking up and down the stairs, crossing a street, etc., etc. - why single out the risk in motor racing as being unusual and therefore something to be avoided?

Because you have to cross the street, you dont have to be an F1 driver.

[D. Heimgartner]

And what about poor F1 drivers who have to cross the street...



****. I totally agree with Buford and others who realize that track emasculation has gone way beyond what is necessary. I say take those god damn chicanes out of Monza, and return it to its glorious high-speed nature. Do the same with Imola... At Silverstone there is the Bridge corner or something and there's that chicane before it that needs to go. At the new Nurburgring, there's a couple of chicanes that can go. At Hungary, well... there's an entire track that should go! Oh, and at Suzuka, that last chicane needs to go too!

Give me speed and dangerous corners, and let's see what the drivers can really do.

[Chris_Amon]

Regarding Stewart, I once was luck enough to find in a bookshop a second hand book written by himself and a journalist. The book is labeled "Jackie Stewart World Champion" and covers all the 1969 season. Every race from that season became a richly detailed chapter, with the information provided by the journalist and the personal impressions by Jackie about the races, the others drivers, safety and so on. A must have for a F1 fan.