111 replies to this topic

[Dick Willis]

Does anyone have a list, by chassis number, of past and present owners of Cooper Bristols. If so, could you post it in this thread for ou general information.

[Dick Willis]

I'm amazed that there has been no response to this. I would have thought that someone would have done something similar to Allan Brown's great "Old Racing Cars" listings on Tasman and later single seaters.

[Doug Nye]

Dick - I suppose with my Cooper background I should apologise for not having responded to your thread but I expected others to do so who have greater knowledge of the cars' present day whereabouts. The surviving cars have generally been so jiggered about and souped up today that I have almost completely lost interest in them - having always, in any case, had far more interest in their contemporary frontline history than in their latter-day existence in so-what hysteric racing...

Another reason for my reticence has been my healthy disregard for today's often-seen childlike belief that 'chassis numbers' adequately identify 'historic cars'. You asked specifically for chassis numbers. Cooper chassis numbers were - in period - entirely ahem, 'advisory' only. The following is derived from my 1983 Cooper book researches - and in many instances others here at TNF will now perhaps know better...

Of the Cooper-Bristol Mark Is built for the 1952 season:

1952 1 - The prototype supposedly 'CB/1/52' went to Archie Bryde - then Fred Tuck - supposedly became the Stan Coffey car in Australia as the 'Dowidat Special' - used-up by Jack Myers.

1952 2 and 3 - The twin Ecurie Richmond cars for Alan Brown and Eric Brandon - supposedly '2/52' and '3/52' were respectivel;y converted into a Barchetta-bodied sports-racing car and sold to Border Reivers - later to Eric Glasby in Rhodesia - fitted with a Chevrolet V8 engine - Glasby told me in 1977 he suspected the car might survive in "some basement in South Africa".

1952 4 - The Bob Chase/Leslie Hawthorn car was rebuilt for Alan Brown as his Barchetta-bodied sports-racing car registered 'HPN 665'.

1952 5 - The Alan Fraser/George Hartwell Syndicate car was driven by Andre Loens and Jeff Sparrowe - recalled as having been chassis-numbered '5/52' by the way - this car went to George Palmer NZ - Gavin Quirk - Johnny Mansell - Brian Prescott - Peter Elford - Bill Clark - this being the car, sadly, in which Bill's son James crashed fatally in an historic race.

1952 6 - The Ecurie Ecosse Mark I - supposedly 'CB/6/52' - driven by Jock Lawrence and our immensely welcome new TNFer Ian Stewart - went to Alastair Birrell - George Keylock/Gordon Pick (UK hillclimbers) - Bernard Worth - Bill Wilks and some vital parts absorbed amongst parallel Cooper-like projects... - survives today in hysteric racing.

1952 7(ish) - Peter Walker Cooper Mark I - long-wheelbase car with ERA engine and wire wheels - ultimately fitted with a Bristol engine and raced in so-what events by Ken Yeates (UK) - John R. Brown - Don Balmer (huge shunt) - Rubery Owen straightened the frame, sold to David Vine...etc

------------------

Then the Cooper-Bristol and Alta Mark II cars:

1953 1 - The John Barber Mark II prototype as raced by him in Argentina 1953 - to David Chambers in Australia -who committed a suety-pud before running the car - which became Brabham's 'RedeX Special' - you know the rest...Stan Jones, Tom Hawkes Chevrolet engined, Earl Davey-Milne etc etc...

1953 2 - The Ken Wharton Mark II - to Tony Crook - supposedly to Ray Gibbs in Australia - Holden engined - Tony Osbourne - Bob Punch - back to UK with Stephen Curtis - Roddy MacPherson's first of the space-age NASA-ised Cooper-Bristol 250F-eaters...etc etc.

1953 3 - The Bob Gerard Mark II - to Jimmy Stuart UK - to Jim Berry - rebuilt as Cooper-Bristol by Dick Crosthwaite...into hysteric racing.

1953 4 - The Rodney Nuckey Mark II - went to Australia for Alec Mildren - Syd Negus Holden engine - Jim Harwood rebuilt it with Bristol engine - to Cameron Millar UK - Cecil Bendall - Richard Pilkington - hysterics - typically Cooper, the chassis serial 'CB/5/53' was quoted during its Aussie period - back in the UK it has been described as 'CB/3/53' and 'CB/8/53' - it would of course be possible to interpret poor chassis number stampings as all three of these serials. Intentional? Or not??

1953 5 - The Tom Cole Mark II - in effect totally destroyed in fire at Syracuse.

1953 5B - The Tom Cole Mark II as above rebuilt around fresh frame, driven by Swaters, Cole, Grahame Whitehead - to Dick Gibson - sold to Australia probably to Reg Hunt. ( Reg Hunt's Mark II - alleged supplied 'NEW' in 1954) for Kevin Neal in Australia - to Len Lukey - Frank Coad - Eddie Clay - Ken Cox - Peter Menere - Jumbo Goddard and to Tom Wheatcroft for the Donington Collection. But this was surely in reality the ex-Tom Cole second Mark II of 1953...ex-Gibson...

1953 6 (ish) - Bob Chase/Alan Brown Mark II with de Dion rear suspension - driven by Glockler at Nurburgring - Tom Kyffin -

1953 7 - The Alan Brown ex-Bobby Baird Mark II - Baird had bought this Mark II in parallel with his Ferrari 500 which Salvadori drove - car sold to Brown - driven by John Fitch at Aix-les-Bains - to Alex McMillan who had it converted into a sports-cum-F2 car and later with Rochdale GRP body as the 'Bristol Barb'.

1953 8 - The Horace Gould Mark II - to Tom Kyffin as his second Cooper-Bristol - W.F. Morice - George Palmer - Lenny Gilbert as sports car - Peter Pinckney etc

1953 9 (ish) - The Whitehead Cooper-Alta Mark II went to Brabham - then with Bristol engine to Jimmy de Villiers in Rhodesia - Tony Kotze - Guthrie - Maritz - Les Tempest - Bruce Glasby...

1953 10 - The Tony Crook Mark II single-seater - had it modified by Bristol to 1 1/2-seater configuration - stayed with Crook for donkey's years...

1953 11 (ish) and 12 (ish) - The Moss Cooper-Altas - chapter on their own - two cars - the true Cooper-Alta Mark II selling to Eric Brandon for 1954 - then Bob Chase for Alan Brown and Mike Keen - I believe this one ended up in the Prieur Collection in France????


And there were nine sports cars - or at least - so it seemed to me when I did all this original research. Question now is, of course, does anyone else here know better???? As time passes more information is uncovered and more links are deduced. I hope this foundation helps...

DCN

[Barry Lake]

Well, that was worth waiting for!

However, Johnny Mansel, I believe, has just the one "l" in his surname.

The Cooper Bristol that I still find a bit of a mystery is the Reg Hunt car. It always looked brand new to me when raced by Kevin Neal, and still - in my memory - was maintained in immaculate order by Len Lukey when he raced it. Somewhere along the line it must have been completely and extremely well rebuilt. I suppose that could even have been done in Australia when it first arrived. But it certainly never looked like a "well raced" second hand car to me.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Barry Lake
Johnny Mansel, I believe, has just the one "l" in his surname. The Cooper Bristol that I still find a bit of a mystery is the Reg Hunt car. It always looked brand new to me when raced by Kevin Neal, and still - in my memory - was maintained in immaculate order by Len Lukey when he raced it. Somewhere along the line it must have been completely and extremely well rebuilt. I suppose that could even have been done in Australia when it first arrived. But it certainly never looked like a "well raced" second hand car to me.

Mansel - corrected. I could find nobody from Cooper who had any recollection whatsoever of building a Cooper-Bristol so late - hence the conclusion that the car was the ex-Cole second build/Gibson machine. That the car looked if anything 'better than new' could be attributed to Motorwork of Chalfont St Peter (or was it St Giles? - never can remember) who did the work on the Cole car-cum-Dick Gibson-cum-Reg Hunt/Kevin Neal - each of whom had well-earned reputations for putting out immaculate looking cars....perhaps in some contrast to the Cooper Car Co factory?

DCN

[marat]

DSJ wrote:"...When interest in the cars began to grow in Historic circles, many of these
rusty old heaps of scrap were retrieved and `re-created'. Some genuinely came from the
remains of an original car, others from bits that `might' have been on a Formula 2 car,
but more likely came from a sports Cooper-Bristol. The result was that many new
Cooper-Bristol came on the Historic scene, for the suspension parts were easy to copy
and Bristol engines and gearboxes were easy to come by, and any half-skilled tin-basher
could make a new body..."

[Dick Willis]

Thanks Doug, that helps a lot and I certainly agree with your sentiments that these cars have been breeding well.
I owned the Warrior Bristol for several years in the early nineties, and as you would know it was derived from the Nuckey CB, which then was rebuilt into a single seater again effectively doubling the count at that time, in 1954 or so.

[Barry Lake]

I was speaking recently to John Sheppard, mechanic for the Geoghegans through most of the 1960s, later owner of the Holden Dealer Team, etc, and a perfectionist when it comes to preparation and presentation of racing cars.

John told me he is recreating the Charlie Dean/Stan Jones Maybach II. Most of what was useable from the original car went into Maybach III, what was virtually destroyed in its final crash lay around various workshops for years before finally being dumped - many years ago. John has a few bits, I can't remember exactly what they were but along the lines of steering box/oil radiator/something else.

I am confident he will build it as near as humanly possible to the original but, as he said, it will never be regarded as the real thing. He told me he once "restored" the Geoghegan Lotus 22 and "I haven't put anything into this car (Maybach) that I didn't put into the 22". In other words, he replaced almost everything on the Lotus - yet that is accepted as "the real thing".

Personally, I would prefer to see the original cars restored faithfully (or even left as they are), displayed in museums and given occasional runs around circuits by responsible and expert drivers.

The historic racers should be restricted to modifying/updating/crashing/renewing replicas. If they are faithful replicas, is there any less thrill watching and listening to them raced (and crashed) than watching the same thing with a genuine wheel nut and chassis plate attached?

How many would turn their noses up and pooh-pooh the recently recreated Lancia D50s? Best thing about them is not only that when you are watching them in action you are to all intents and purposes seeing exactly the same as if they were "real" and, when they are crashed, no history has been destroyed; they just recreate another one. I think it's perfect!

I have looked at cars once raced by myself and now "restored" and I feel nothing; they don't look to me like the cars I owned. Usually almost nothing is familiar. The same with "restorations" of cars I watched race as a youngster, or later raced against. I look at them now and think, "that's not the same car". Same chassis plate, maybe, but I get only a very minor thrill from that.

That's not always the fault of the current owner/restorer, mind you. Often it is the result of too many owners changing too many things and there being insufficient photographic evidence to know just what is what.

And as for the Neal/Lukey Cooper Bristol, yes, it always looked better than a new Cooper, much better, even the bodywork, which was absolutely flawless. Better than Brabham's RedeX Special, which was the "newest" of the Cooper Bristols to arrive in Australia. Whoever did the rebuild of the Neal/Lukey car was a real craftsman (or craftsmen?).

So, when such a car is restored, should it look as it did when it came from the factory? Or should it look the way it did after the immaculate rebuild early in its life? Or perhaps the way its current owner convinces himself it should have looked?

Hmm, I fear I might be heading off topic here - and into a subject that has been discussed at length elsewhere. Sorry.

But I agree with Doug, wholeheartedly, that the important thing is the history of the cars while they were still current (as hard as it sometimes can be to define just when the "current" period ended). As for following them through their historic careers, well, thank heavens for people like David McKinney and Allen Brown. It's all too hard for me.

[Bladrian]

Doug Nye wrote:

".. to David Chambers in Australia -who committed a suety-pud before running the car .."


What on earth is 'committing a suety-pud'? With my limited knowledge of English tribal dialects, I confess myself stumped ....

[David McKinney]

Some updates:
•The Brown barchetta was rebuilt as a single-seater in the ‘60s and has been active in historic racing since.
•Brandon’s Mk1 emerged from its basement and was raced by its South African owner at Monaco in 2000
•The Chase/Hawthorn Mk1 exists, still in barchetta form, in France
•The Fraser/Hartwell car was rebuilt. Returned to UK about 10 years ago and has been active in historic events since
•The Ecurie Ecosse Mark I was last campaigned by the late Spencer Flack
•The Peter Walker Cooper-ERA, now with Bristol engine, still appears at historic meetings from time to time
•The Brabham Mk2 returned to UK and has made occasional appearances with same owner since 1981
•Macpherson sold the Ken Wharton Mark 2 a year or so ago
•The Bob Gerard Mark 2 still appears regularly
•The Rodney Nuckey Mark 2 has been a historic regular in the UK for ten years (but there is allegedly a second claimant in Italy). Perhaps one of them is the former Warrior
•The Donington Collection car was sold in 1995
•The Chase/Brown De Dion car went to New Zealand, where it remains AFAIK
•The 'Bristol Barb' was written off after an accident. The chassis was reported to be in Birmingham about ten years ago
• The Horace Gould Mark 2 - CBMk2/11/53 - returned to UK in 1988 and has been active in historic events since
•The Tony Crook wide-bodied Mark 2 was sold earlier this year
•The Ray Martin/Stirling Moss Cooper-Alta special reappeared on the circuits a couple of years ago

Several Cooper-Bristol sportscars were rebuilt as single-seaters for historic racing including:
•John Barber’s Mk1-based Golding-Cooper. Rebuilt as a single-seater around 1970 and a regular historic competitor since
•The 1953 factory barchetta - converted to single-seater late ‘60s and active in historic racing since
•1953 wide-bodied 1-1/2-seater for Jack Walton. Rebuilt as narrow-bodied single-seater in 1970s and races in historic events

There are also a number of replicas of whose origins I know nothing

[john medley]

The last time I saw the ex Brandon Mk1 was at one of the Uralla GPs before Ivan Glasby( son of Eric , ex Rhodesian) took it to Monaco., 2000?

In fact, Dick, werent you and Ivan swarming all over Frank Moore re sale of either C-B or Warrior ? Where is the Warrior now ?

[David McKinney]

I think the Monaco bloke's name was Richard Daggitt - possibly from Zimbabwe. I think it had been through a couple of Glasby owners before then (away from my records at the moment)

[Doug Nye]

Dave - hasn't the Ecurie Ecosse car been revived and out racing recently with Gregor Fisken at the helm?

Barry - we share v. similar attitudes to these things. I have been saying for years I'd happily see replicas raced if it meant protection for the genuine items. Then at least 'restorers' could honestly and proudly say "Look what I've built" - as do our Lancia V8 chaps, and as did the late, lamented Cameron Millar - rather than lie through their teeth about "Look what I've found" (or "restored"). As we both know, within historic motor sporting ownership circles the capacity for self-delusion is also IMMENSE!

Bladrian - I do apologise - David Chambers committed suicide.

...and what is the situation today regarding the remains of the 'RedeX Special'?????

DCN

[David McKinney]

Gregor Fisken's usual mount is the ex-Nuckey Mk2. He's also raced other CBs but not, AFAIK, the Ecosse car. But then I haven't been to every historic meeting in the past year or two...

The car raced by Oliver Robinson in the UK since about 1981 lays claim to being the ex-Brabham Redex

[Dick Willis]

Doug, the last I heard the Redex Special was alive and well and immaculate in it's Corvette engined form with Earl Davey-Milne and/or his family, I saw a picture of it not too long ago when it ran at the Geelong Sprints, or was it at Albert Park historic demo.

Yes John, I was pitted beside Ivan Glasby's Cooper Bristol at the Guyra GP and naturally enough I fell in love with it, then Ivan let me drive it on a public road ! back to where it was garaged for the weekend, then I was really hooked. Ivan has since told me that the buyer was from Capetown.

The Warrior Bristol is in California with a guy named Jack Perkins, I have seen a few pics of it in US magazines at US events. I did in fact try to sell it to Frank Moore but he had a deathadder in his pocket and the British people I had interested in it were full on sceptics, probably because we are here in the colonies, but the car in it's Warrior Bristol format was very genuine and had a good racing history as such, which makes one laugh when you consider what has been previously said in this thread about " recreated" Cooper Bristols.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Barry - we share v. similar attitudes to these things. I have been saying for years I'd happily see replicas raced if it meant protection for the genuine items. Then at least 'restorers' could honestly and proudly say "Look what I've built" - as do our Lancia V8 chaps, and as did the late, lamented Cameron Millar - rather than lie through their teeth about "Look what I've found" (or "restored"). As we both know, within historic motor sporting ownership circles the capacity for self-delusion is also IMMENSE!

DCN

I have to raise my hand in support of this concept as well. If someone is forthright about what they've done and makes no pretense about it, then that is perfectly okay with me if they thrash about the track with it. As for the last sentence, how true, how true!

[Ray Bell]

It's for this reason that I've always favoured the extension of the Groups J & K provision to allow cars 'built at any time' to be constructed for much of the Group L (1946 to 1960) era.

The piles of what was essentially junk that were assembled to race at the Bathursts and Altonas and Woodsides of that era, not to mention the Lowoods and Toodyays and Pound Hills and Fishermens Bends, were mostly despatched to where most people said they belonged all along after short careers of tyre squealing and weaving under brakes.

But they were a part of racing in our time, or the time of our fathers and grandfathers.

[RAP]

I have been puzzled by which sports Cooper Bristol Robbie Mackenzie Low raced (or at least entered) in the second half of 1954 - Oulton 10/7, Crystal Palace 2/8, Snetterton 14/8, Goodwood 21/8, Brands 5/9. Taking the 9 sports referred to in Doug Nye's book I have matched all bar one racing on the 14/8 :-
RUM 2 Jack Walton at Silverstone
LPU 349 McMillan at Silverstone
SAR 338 Warrior at Sliverstone
UPA 261 P Kenneth at Snetteron
TPD 1 Rogers at Snetterton
Crook at Snetterton
HPN 665 at Zandvoort (theoretically could have been RM-L Sn car but also at Oulton 10/7 so this is ruled out.)
UpF 440 Kyffin not accounted for this weekend but was at Davidstow 2/8
The ninth car was the Riseley Pritchard Cooper Connaught
This leaves the Golding Cooper unaccounted for. Can anyone confirm (eg photos) that this was the Mackenzie-Low car?

[Bugatti bourgogne]

1952 4 - The Bob Chase/Leslie Hawthorn car was rebuilt for Alan Brown as his Barchetta-bodied sports-racing car registered 'HPN 665'.

Who knows where I can find details about this particular car...

I saw it when auctionned by Poulain Le Fur 'in june 2003' and would like to read more about ...
thanks,

[Richard Neale]

Hi,

I've been out of circulation for a while and only just got to pick up this thread.
Will cross check with my database and see if I can add anything.

[Dick Willis]

Barry Lake mentioned above the Hunt/Neal/Lukey Cooper Bristol, CB/9/53, but in 1958 Len Lukey several times raced the Lukey Bristol. AMS articles at the time described it as an evolution of the Mk2 Cooper Bristol but being much lighter with a Lukey designed and built chassis, teardrop lightweight alloy body, slightly reminiscent of a Vanwall, and many magnesiom castings, cast and machined in Melbourne.
It apparently used the power unit from his Cooper Bristol and like the CB had transverse leaf springing, he advertised it for sale in this form in Nov. 1958 along with many of his special components mentioned above and fibreglass body panels.
I am not aware that it was sold at that time nor was his CB, so can anyone tell me the fate of the Lukey Bristol and did he sell any of his Lukey Bristol chassis, perhaps some of these parts may have been used to recreate a Cooper Bristol, maybe TPD1 which was reputed have ended up in Australia, somewhat disguised.
I would assume that he refitted the CB's components to CB/9/53 before it was bought by Eddie Clay around 1961/2 as in Eddie's ownership it looked identical to it's original appearance.

[john medley]

Didnt the original Carter Corvette ( single seater not the later sports car) have a Lukey chassis ?I believe that cars using the Lukey chassis could have engines front or rear, and a couple of Cooper Climax copies had Lukey chassis.

[Barry Lake]

They're all good questions about the Lukey Bristol, Dick. Unfortunately I don't have any hard and fast answers.

I remember at the time being dispapointed that we didn't see some Lukey Bristols appear in customers' hands. I thought they had to be a good idea at the time. But too late, perhaps, for serious racers and too expensive for impoverished racers.

As John did, I immediately thought of the original Carter Corvette (the one he crashed at Phillip Island?). I am fairly confident that was a Lukey chassis, although a little bell is ringing in my head saying that Murray Carter told me quite recently (last few years, that is) that he built the chassis himself - but I think he was mentally writing off the original car and speaking only of the second one, the sports car version.

I also have always been of the opinion that Lukey used very little from the Cooper Bristol in the Lukey Bristol apart from the engine and transmission - probably for the same reasons you have stated. Since he was planning to sell complete kits, I guessed that he even had leaf springs made.

There's no certainty, either, that he only had one Bristol engine.

[ry6]

I saw three Cooper-"Bristols" which raced in South/Southern Africa.

1. The 1952 ish front engined car driven by George "Curly" Cannell which was by then fitted with a V8 Chevy. There is a photo of it, in Springbok Grand Prix, behind Stirling Moss's Porsche F2 (718) during the December 1960 South African GP - it dwarfs the silver Porsche. I think this car is now owned by Dickon Daggitt and is now in more "original" form.

"Curly" was a nickname because George wore hairpieces, which were evidently stitched to his pate!

2. Then there was a 1953 ish front engined car campaigned by Tony Kotze. It had a Bristol engine. Prior to that I recall Ian Fraser Jones racing it a few times under the Scuderia Lupini banner.

3. The other was a rear engined car. Ex Bob Gerard and I think he came 6th in a late 50's or early '60's British GP in it. Eric Glasby raced it sparingly in the '60's. It had a tall engine in the back and stack exhaust pipes like a '60's BRM. Ivan Glasby might still own it. Certainly he raced it in a Monaco historique circa 2003. I don't think the 2.2 litre Bristol suited the rear engined Cooper. It was described as a T44 Cooper (but maybe was more T43?)

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by ry6
3. The other was a rear engined car. Ex Bob Gerard and I think he came 6th in a late 50's or early '60's British GP in it. Eric Glasby raced it sparingly in the '60's. It had a tall engine in the back and stack exhaust pipes like a '60's BRM. Ivan Glasby might still own it. Certainly he raced it in a Monaco historique circa 2003. I don't think the 2.2 litre Bristol suited the rear engined Cooper. It was described as a T44 Cooper (but maybe was more T43?)

It was a T43 chassis, but was given the T44 number to distinguish it from the Climax-engined cars. I'm never sure how much of this Cooper numbering was retrospective ....

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by ry6
I saw three Cooper-"Bristols" which raced in South/Southern Africa.

1. The 1952 ish front engined car driven by George "Curly" Cannell which was by then fitted with a V8 Chevy. There is a photo of it, in Springbok Grand Prix, behind Stirling Moss's Porsche F2 (718) during the December 1960 South African GP - it dwarfs the silver Porsche. I think this car is now owned by Dickon Daggitt and is now in more "original" form.

"Curly" was a nickname because George wore hairpieces, which were evidently stitched to his pate!

2. Then there was a 1953 ish front engined car campaigned by Tony Kotze. It had a Bristol engine. Prior to that I recall Ian Fraser Jones racing it a few times under the Scuderia Lupini banner.

3. The other was a rear engined car. Ex Bob Gerard and I think he came 6th in a late 50's or early '60's British GP in it. Eric Glasby raced it sparingly in the '60's. It had a tall engine in the back and stack exhaust pipes like a '60's BRM. Ivan Glasby might still own it. Certainly he raced it in a Monaco historique circa 2003. I don't think the 2.2 litre Bristol suited the rear engined Cooper. It was described as a T44 Cooper (but maybe was more T43?)

1952 Mk1
Originally Ecurie Richmond (Eric Brandon), later Border Reivers
Gordon Lindsay in South Africa 1955-58, Peter Small 1958-59, George Cannell from 1960 with Corvette engine.
Cannell retained till acquired by Ivan Glasby, Australia 1985
Yes, the Dickon Daggitt car

1953 Mk2
Originally Peter Whitehead’s Cooper-Alta, later fitted with Bristol engine by Jack Brabham
Jimmy de Villiers 1956, Scuderia Lupini (Ian Fraser-Jones, Horse Boyden) 1957-58, Tony Kotze 1958-59. Later Guthrie, Maritz etc
Now (or recently) with Bruce Glasby, Zimbabwe

1957 T44
Eric Glasby from 1962. As you say, with Ivan Glasby in Australia (and raced at Monaco in 1997)

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by RAP
I have been puzzled by which sports Cooper Bristol Robbie Mackenzie Low raced (or at least entered) in the second half of 1954 - Oulton 10/7, Crystal Palace 2/8, Snetterton 14/8, Goodwood 21/8, Brands 5/9. Taking the 9 sports referred to in Doug Nye's book I have matched all bar one racing on the 14/8 :-
RUM 2 Jack Walton at Silverstone
LPU 349 McMillan at Silverstone
SAR 338 Warrior at Sliverstone
UPA 261 P Kenneth at Snetteron
TPD 1 Rogers at Snetterton
Crook at Snetterton
HPN 665 at Zandvoort (theoretically could have been RM-L Sn car but also at Oulton 10/7 so this is ruled out.)
UpF 440 Kyffin not accounted for this weekend but was at Davidstow 2/8
The ninth car was the Riseley Pritchard Cooper Connaught
This leaves the Golding Cooper unaccounted for. Can anyone confirm (eg photos) that this was the Mackenzie-Low car?

You should also add RKT 930 the Cooper Zephyr to this list.
Doug's Cooper book says it was a Cooper-MG based car but it isn't, the chassis is un-drilled Mark 1 Cooper Bristol (larger section chassis than the MG).
Built in 1953 by Frederick Bryan Coleman, with a 2.3 litre 6 cylinder Ford Zephyr engine, it was later owned by Rosemary Seers (who would become secretary of Club Lotus) and was raced around 1955 by her and Chris Steele (who would become a well known engine tuner).

UPA 261 was recently rebuilt, by George Cooper in Scotland, and is apparently the prototype Cooper Bristol sports car (from the run that Cooper intended building but never did) - e.g. it has an un-drilled Mark 1 chassis like RKT 930.
It has recently been sold by a Belgian dealer.

The chassis of RKT 930 shows sign of accident damage and we suspected that this was a result of the accident early in the prototype sportscar's career - e.g. when Cooper rebuilt the car they fitted a new chassis, and sold the bent one to F B Coleman.
But that does not fit with the history of UPA 261 (which has the chassis that Stephen Langton bought back from America, as shown in Doug's book, and the original body that George Cooper found).
Either way Cooper must have made more than one un-drilled CB chassis.

By the way, UPA 261 has original F2 fuel tank and radiator, which might be surprising for a car that was built as a sports car?

I think UPF 440 was recently advertised in America as a Cooper MG?

HPN 665 the Alan Brown sportscar was sold a couple of years ago in Paris (Retromobile auction?), together with the single seater variation (e.g. it has been 'rebuilt' into both forms)!

The DB3 Aston style body has also re-appeared recently - is the registration something like NXH?

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by ry6
I saw three Cooper-"Bristols" which raced in South/Southern Africa.

1. The 1952 ish front engined car driven by George "Curly" Cannell which was by then fitted with a V8 Chevy. There is a photo of it, in Springbok Grand Prix, behind Stirling Moss's Porsche F2 (718) during the December 1960 South African GP - it dwarfs the silver Porsche. I think this car is now owned by Dickon Daggitt and is now in more "original" form.

Here's Dickon's Cooper-Bristol exiting Malmesbury-sweep at Killarney, Cape Town. I took the photo two years ago.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Gregor Fisken's usual mount is the ex-Nuckey Mk2. He's also raced other CBs but not, AFAIK, the Ecosse car. But then I haven't been to every historic meeting in the past year or two...

The car raced by Oliver Robinson in the UK since about 1981 lays claim to being the ex-Brabham Redex

The appearance of this car in Robinson's hands more or less coincided with the VSCC's updated classification of post war historic racing cars and at the time was entered as a Group 4 car i.e. one without a continuous history. I would suggest that wouldn't have been the case if it claimed to be the ex Brabham "Redex Special"

Of course that was getting on for a quarter of a century ago which to put it in context is nearly half the "age" of the car concerned.

JH

[Hieronymus]

...and here is Dickon Daggitt again in what I believe is the ex-Brandon, ex-Lindsay, ex-Small, ex-Cannell, ex-Glasby car.

I also believe that Mike Hawthorn drove this car at one stage???

Photo taken in the Killarney pits, February 2006.

[Dutchy]

It looks great.
One thing I've noticed is that none of the reproduction cars ever have quite the right shape nose.

JH

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Dutchy
The appearance of this car in Robinson's hands more or less coincided with the VSCC's updated classification of post war historic racing cars and at the time was entered as a Group 4 car i.e. one without a continuous history. I would suggest that wouldn't have been the case if it claimed to be the ex Brabham "Redex Special"

It still has a chassis plate with the number of Brabham's car (or did last I looked)

[ry6]

Hieronymous -

If you have a copy of Springbok Grand Prix handy see if you can scan that photo of Curly Cannell in the Chevy engined "Cooper Bristol" and the Sir Stirling in the Porsche.

The author will have no objections.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by ry6
Hieronymous -

If you have a copy of Springbok Grand Prix handy see if you can scan that photo of Curly Cannell in the Chevy engined "Cooper Bristol" and the Sir Stirling in the Porsche.

The author will have no objections.

Thanks Author!

I'll do so later in the afternoon.

Curly Cannell? Nice name. The photo I have of George shows his top as bare as a baby's bottom.

PS. I see that Dickon Daggitt's Cooper Bristol is chassis no. 3/52, according to Doug Nye's Cooper book.

[Ray Bell]

I'll never forget seeing that car in Glasby's hands at Guyra... just a lovely thing...

Even if the Konis aren't really 'period' at all.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by ry6
Hieronymous -

If you have a copy of Springbok Grand Prix handy see if you can scan that photo of Curly Cannell in the Chevy engined "Cooper Bristol" and the Sir Stirling in the Porsche.

Here is the photo of George Cannell. South African GP, East London, December 1960.

[Hieronymus]

It is Jo Bonnier following George Cannell...

[ry6]

You see what I mean about memory lapses!

I am sure, though, I have a pic somewhere in my collection back home with S Moss Porsche ahead of the big Cooper-Chevy.

Please excuse my mistake.

I still like the photo anyway.

[Wolf]

From ry6:

1. "Silver car" - Shows Eric Glasby's silver T44 Bristol with its stacked exhausts in the paddock during a Rhodesian meeting in the early 1960's.



2. "Coopers new and old". Shows Ivan Glasby at the start of the Monaco Historique many years later in the car #17 now green. # 8 is Ian Pugh's B Type Connaught and # 3 is Graham Burrows Cooper T23. # 18 is Michael Haywood's Cooper T45.



These are photos that Ivan gave me.

[David McKinney]

Both ex-Gerard Cooper-Bristols in the same photo
(at Monaco)

[Pmorris]

Hi, this is my first time on the site so excuse me if this email ends up in the wrong spot. I wanted to contribute to the Cooper emails. My father (Peter Morris) actually built the Alan Brown car for RJ Chase that won the British Empire Trophy in 1953 - plus others. Both my father and Jack Brabham built Coopers in Chase's garage. My father is now 86 but remembers a lot of detail regarding the cars he built.

I actually just got an email today from Sir Jack Brabham remembering my father. If any one has any photos or information on the Cooper that Mike Keen was killed in in the early 50's I would appreciate hearing about it. My father also built that car. Thanks. Peter Morris Cambridge Ontario Canada

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Barry Lake
I was speaking recently to John Sheppard, mechanic for the Geoghegans through most of the 1960s, later owner of the Holden Dealer Team, etc, and a perfectionist when it comes to preparation and presentation of racing cars.

John told me he is recreating the Charlie Dean/Stan Jones Maybach II. Most of what was useable from the original car went into Maybach III, what was virtually destroyed in its final crash lay around various workshops for years before finally being dumped - many years ago. John has a few bits, I can't remember exactly what they were but along the lines of steering box/oil radiator/something else.

I am confident he will build it as near as humanly possible to the original but, as he said, it will never be regarded as the real thing. He told me he once "restored" the Geoghegan Lotus 22 and "I haven't put anything into this car (Maybach) that I didn't put into the 22". In other words, he replaced almost everything on the Lotus - yet that is accepted as "the real thing".

Personally, I would prefer to see the original cars restored faithfully (or even left as they are), displayed in museums and given occasional runs around circuits by responsible and expert drivers.

The historic racers should be restricted to modifying/updating/crashing/renewing replicas. If they are faithful replicas, is there any less thrill watching and listening to them raced (and crashed) than watching the same thing with a genuine wheel nut and chassis plate attached?

How many would turn their noses up and pooh-pooh the recently recreated Lancia D50s? Best thing about them is not only that when you are watching them in action you are to all intents and purposes seeing exactly the same as if they were "real" and, when they are crashed, no history has been destroyed; they just recreate another one. I think it's perfect!

I have looked at cars once raced by myself and now "restored" and I feel nothing; they don't look to me like the cars I owned. Usually almost nothing is familiar. The same with "restorations" of cars I watched race as a youngster, or later raced against. I look at them now and think, "that's not the same car". Same chassis plate, maybe, but I get only a very minor thrill from that.

That's not always the fault of the current owner/restorer, mind you. Often it is the result of too many owners changing too many things and there being insufficient photographic evidence to know just what is what.

And as for the Neal/Lukey Cooper Bristol, yes, it always looked better than a new Cooper, much better, even the bodywork, which was absolutely flawless. Better than Brabham's RedeX Special, which was the "newest" of the Cooper Bristols to arrive in Australia. Whoever did the rebuild of the Neal/Lukey car was a real craftsman (or craftsmen?).

So, when such a car is restored, should it look as it did when it came from the factory? Or should it look the way it did after the immaculate rebuild early in its life? Or perhaps the way its current owner convinces himself it should have looked?

Hmm, I fear I might be heading off topic here - and into a subject that has been discussed at length elsewhere. Sorry.

But I agree with Doug, wholeheartedly, that the important thing is the history of the cars while they were still current (as hard as it sometimes can be to define just when the "current" period ended). As for following them through their historic careers, well, thank heavens for people like David McKinney and Allen Brown. It's all too hard for me.

Barry, very well written and put, Regards Peter Nightingale

[Nanni Dietrich]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Dick - I suppose with my Cooper background I should apologise for not having responded to your thread but I expected others to do so who have greater knowledge of the cars' present day whereabouts. The surviving cars have generally been so jiggered about and souped up today that I have almost completely lost interest in them - having always, in any case, had far more interest in their contemporary frontline history than in their latter-day existence in so-what hysteric racing...

Another reason for my reticence has been my healthy disregard for today's often-seen childlike belief that 'chassis numbers' adequately identify 'historic cars'. You asked specifically for chassis numbers. Cooper chassis numbers were - in period - entirely ahem, 'advisory' only. The following is derived from my 1983 Cooper book researches - and in many instances others here at TNF will now perhaps know better...

Of the Cooper-Bristol Mark Is built for the 1952 season:

...

1952 5 - The Alan Fraser/George Hartwell Syndicate car was driven by Andre Loens and Jeff Sparrowe - recalled as having been chassis-numbered '5/52' by the way - this car went to George Palmer NZ - Gavin Quirk - Johnny Mansell - Brian Prescott - Peter Elford - Bill Clark - this being the car, sadly, in which Bill's son James crashed fatally in an historic race.

...

DCN

Doug, can you give us more informations about James Clark's fatal accident?
Thank you.

[Steve O'Brien]

I remember my father (Harry O'Brien) having a Cooper Bristol sports car in his garage in Liverpool I am not sure if he owned it or if it belonged to someone else in must have been in the late 50's, im sure there is a photo of it somewere I will try and find it.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
Doug, can you give us more informations about James Clark's fatal accident?
Thank you.

If I might intercede...
It was at a historic race meeting on the Wigram airfield circuit, New Zealand, in 1988. Don't know the exact date or the details, except that I believe another car, an ERA, was involved

[Terry Walker]

The Cooper Bristol raced in Western Australia by Syd Negus - later with the Repco Holden engine - earned its keep. And didn't always stay right way up. Syd and the car went on to race again.

[Ted Walker]

Had a customer on my stand at the see red meeting who claims to have bought the Cooper Barb,and is going to re-build it with the rochdale body !!!!!!!!!!!

[David McKinney]

Is that the Cooper-Barb that was written off in 1956?
I was told in 1991 that the chassis was then in Birmingham

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
The Cooper Bristol raced in Western Australia by Syd Negus - later with the Repco Holden engine

and now racing regularly in Europe, with a Bristol engine back in place

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Had a customer on my stand at the see red meeting who claims to have bought the Cooper Barb,and is going to re-build it with the rochdale body !!!!!!!!!!!

Would his name be Geoffrey?? Or has he (would be recently) sold the remains?

I discussed copying the only Rochdale F-type body that appears to have survived with Geoffrey, but in the end he decided it was too expensive so I ended up buying the body myself - for Elva MBU309 that McMillan replaced the Bristol Barb with.

By the way, do you have any photos of MBU309?