18 replies to this topic

[Franklin]

And by large vertical stabilizer I mean a Garlits monostrut size fin located BEHIND the transaxle.

I have never understood the logic of continuing to build cars that run exclusively on ovals as if they were clones of mid-eighties F1 cars.

[RDV]

And by large vertical stabilizer I mean a Garlits monostrut size fin located BEHIND the transaxle

Why, pray?

[Franklin]

Because running continuously at 200+ mph on an oval AIN'T FREAKING ROAD RACING.

You know what happens when a vertical stabilizer of sufficient size is placed on a car going that fast? They don't spin.

[RDV]

Thank you for your illuminating words. Unfortunately the IRL rule book does specify overhang, which would rather preclude fins of the size required.

Secondly the wake of a wing does produce rather big vorticae, which do stabilize cars.

Thirdly spins are not so much a problem as running wide and hitting walls.

And fourthly if you hate road racing so much I suggest you take yourself to several IRL sites that would welcome your words of wisdom.

I have no dislike for any type of motorsports , rather consider them all facets of the same game, and welcome technicaly competent discussions of ways and means of achieving maximum performance within the rules of each formulae. By the tone of your posts I rather think you will be more at home in the Readers comments.

And by the way , have a nice Xmas.

[Franklin]

Originally posted by RDV
Thank you for your illuminating words. Unfortunately the IRL rule book does specify overhang, which would rather preclude fins of the size required.

Secondly the wake of a wing does produce rather big vorticae, which do stabilize cars.

Thirdly spins are not so much a problem as running wide and hitting walls.

And fourthly if you hate road racing so much I suggest you take yourself to several IRL sites that would welcome your words of wisdom.

I have no dislike for any type of motorsports , rather consider them all facets of the same game, and welcome technicaly competent discussions of ways and means of achieving maximum performance within the rules of each formulae. By the tone of your posts I rather think you will be more at home in the Readers comments.

And by the way , have a nice Xmas.

Guess what? Unlike laws of physics, rules change.

The only thing on the back of an IRL (or CART) car that enhances directional stability is the small amount of vertical fin unintentionally provided by the rear wing end plates (which isn't much).

I like road racing. What I don't like are road racing fans who think it's (A) the be all and end all of motorsports and (B) everything that works in road racing must equally work as well in other forms of motorsports.

[MclarenF1]

Wouldn’t such a large vertical tail stabilize the car too much? As we all know, a certain amount of yaw occurs when a vehicle is turning, and a large vertical tail centered behind the rear axle would definitely be fighting against any Mzz movement, causing under steer, and making the car want to head towards the wall. Adding more front wing could help counteract this problem by trimming the car, but more wing = less speed then your competitors. Please excuse this (over) simplification of the problem.

[Franklin]

On an IRL or CART car it seems like the less tire scrub a car generates the faster it can get through the turns. A vertical stabilizer would need to get some angle of attack on it before it starts generating a lateral force (and consequent drag), a condition that would only occur if the car has begun to get sideways instead of remaining straight ahead.

The giant side fences on World of Outlaws sprint cars function as vertical stabilizers that not only help the driver to maintain the car in a sideslip but because they're acting above the center of gravity keep the car rolled to the INSIDE of the turn thus helping the inside tires stay loaded to maintain traction.

[MRC]

Hey, the new rankings just came out:

1. Franklin
2. Ali G

Congratulations

[kos]

Originally posted by MRC
Hey, the new rankings just came out:

1. Franklin
2. Ali G

Congratulations

[Franklin]

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http://westwood.fort...ked/113/ssnrfr/

It turns out at launch Top Fuel dragsters only develop 1.5 to 1.8 pounds of thrust per horsepower where as a small fast turning propeller can develop a static thrust 3 to 4 pounds of thrust per horsepower.

[MclarenF1]

Originally posted by Franklin
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http://westwood.fort...ked/113/ssnrfr/

It turns out at launch Top Fuel dragsters only develop 1.5 to 1.8 pounds of thrust per horsepower where as a small fast turning propeller can develop a static thrust 3 to 4 pounds of thrust per horsepower.

What does this have to do with large vertical stabilizers mounted behind the transaxle of an IRL car?

[RDV]

What does this have to do with large vertical stabilizers mounted behind the transaxle of an IRL car?

This condition is known as scatter posting, when subjects with a need to be noticed post as many threads as possible with catchy headlines and not much coherence.

This technique is well used by spam posters and is used extensively in the industry.
Can best be cured by omiting answers to teaser questions. Eventualy subject either burns out by excessive posting with no replies, or comes back to maintaining a discussion on one subject at a time.

Prognosis: 1 to 2 weeks of studious indiference might bring some continuity when hint is taken.

[Franklin]

Originally posted by MclarenF1


What does this have to do with large vertical stabilizers mounted behind the transaxle of an IRL car?

The illustration itself of the prop-driven car is a handy example of the proper size and placement for an effective vertical stabilizer on a racecar.

The prop-driven aspect is simply an interesting aside.

[Spunout]

"What does this have to do with large vertical stabilizers mounted behind the transaxle of an IRL car?"

Nothing. But it has a lot to do with Franklin being a drag racing fan who just comes here to flame.

I believe in internet such people are called Trolls?

[MclarenF1]

Let me get this straight...you are compairing an IRL car to a prop driven, LSR car? Umm....

[Franklin]

Originally posted by MclarenF1
Let me get this straight...you are compairing an IRL car to a prop driven, LSR car? Umm....

No, you did not get this straight. I was comparing mid-engine cars that don't use a vertical stabilizer to a mid-engine car that does.

[Powersteer]

Vetical fins are a gargantic magnitude of brilliance. You guys are missing the picture where Franklin knows. Forget the 'dart' effect. Eventhough before a car slip a vertical fin is useless and at 10 degree slip anyone might as well crash plus having a gargantic fin would cause loads of drag, it is still absolutely brilliant.


Imagine how much does it cost to put your sponsor on the wings let alone the sidepods. If you have a vertical fin sticking out like it belongs to a 747 just think how much would companies pay for that slot. It absolutely brilliant.

[Franklin]

Originally posted by Powersteer
Vetical fins are a gargantic magnitude of brilliance. You guys are missing the picture where Franklin knows. Forget the 'dart' effect. Eventhough before a car slip a vertical fin is useless and at 10 degree slip anyone might as well crash plus having a gargantic fin would cause loads of drag, it is still absolutely brilliant.


Imagine how much does it cost to put your sponsor on the wings let alone the sidepods. If you have a vertical fin sticking out like it belongs to a 747 just think how much would companies pay for that slot. It absolutely brilliant.

A BRILLIANTLY ignorant comment made in BRILLIANT ignorance of the fact World Of Outlaws use large vertical stabilizers RIGHT NOW. Not only do their huge wing end plates help the driver to hold the car in a sideslip during the turn but because the force is acting above the center of gravity the car is rolled toward the INSIDE of the turn, keeping the inside wheels firmly planted.

[Powersteer]

You are the ignorant one, how could you ignore the sponsor potential of massive 747 fins. I could imagine a CART driver driving with the same technique as those in World of outlaws
Think Indy 500 and then think World of Outlaws technique doing the corner, i can't believe it, sliding the car 20 degree or more off center line and holding it at over 180 miles an hours the whole 180 degree turn. Tyres would be begging for mercy.