9 replies to this topic

[Richard Jenkins]

Two pronged question this:-
As some of you know, I'm tackling an Indy 500 WATN & it's producing some very interesting results. One in particular is Merrill "Doc" Williams.

According to the basic information I have, Merrill Williams died in 1982 & he was born c. 1911. Now I understand he was American & not Canadian (could be wrong & if so, please let me know). Following a complete search, there's only one Merrill Williams that died in April 1982. There are 4 other ... M Williams who died in April 1982, but none of them have Merrill has a middle name or are too young.

So, I'm pretty certain Merrill "Doc" Williams was born on the 21st March 1918, in Harrisburg, PA & died on the 19th - not the 28th- of April 1982, in Milford, Connecticut. It appears that this Merrill Williams had lived in Connecticut for some while.

This would then mean that Merrill "Doc" Williams, rather than being the 26 years old presumed... was just 18 years & two months old when he started the 1936 Indy 500.

If this IS the case & I would appreciate any clues to confirm this is indeed "the" Merrill Williams - does this make him the youngest Indy driver?

With so much fudging of age - Ruttmann, Davies etc. - I'm not entirely sure who is youngest now - whether we knew then or we know now!

AJ Foyt IV was claiming he was the youngest in 2003, but is he????

[ensign14]

The only help I can offer (such as it is) is that when Donald Davidson first went to the Speedway he was tested by Tony Hulman. Davidson challenged him to come up with a random name and Davidson could recite his career.

Hulman named Doc Williams and Davidson rattled all the stats off.

When Davidson asked Hulman why he chose Williams, Hulman said it was because Doc was the most obscure name he could think of...

Would it be amazingly coincidental that the random driver chosen also have been the youngest? Or maybe Hulman did not know if Doc was indeed born in 1918, rather than 1911?

Or could Doc have falsified his records 'the other way' - does anyone know if he fought in WW2 for example? If born in 1911 he would have been 30 when the States joined, would that have been too old for volunteers? (Really clutching at straws here...)

[Buford]

Josele Garza was 19, not 21 when he first came to Indy. I think Mike Mosely was too.

[Richard Jenkins]

Garza, yes, Mosley no - he WAS born in 1946, so he WAS 21 when he made his debut.

Ruttman, Foyt IV & Fisher all raced when they were teenagers - I think - in the Indy 500 - have I missed anyone out from pre-war?

Thing is, this may never be settled, with so many ages changed over the years. Just going through the list, Larry McCoy, Roger McCluskey, Roger Yakusawa all seem to have changed their age at some point & that's just three I can remember in an instant - there's many more - and then there's those who make themselves younger than they are - it appears Mel Hansen was 10 years older than originally thought!!!

[m.tanney]

  Funny, I could have sworn there was a message on this thread that referred to the list of the youngest Indy 500 entrants on Johnson's Indy 500 site. Did the internet gremlins get it, or am I imagining things?
  Anyhow, the problem with Mr. Johnson's list, and with the whole discussion of "the youngest Indy 500 driver", is that we know so little about many of the prewar (both wars) drivers. By way of example, I offer a name that was left off Johnson's list:

  George "Pete" Henderson
  Born February 18, 1895 in Arran, Ontario
  First Indy appearence: 1916
  Age: 21 years, 4 months, 18 days

Certainly not the youngest, but he'd make Johnson's top ten.

Mike

P.S. Richie: In the course of your Indy WATN research, have you come across anything on Arthur Greiner (1912) or Wilbur D'Alene (1916, '19,'22)?

[Richard Jenkins]

ah, sorry, Mike, I should've explained myself - I'm only doing post-war at the moment (for my own sanity ) & Williams was post-war (and pre-war of course), so, no I haven't looked at the earlier fellows just yet.

Johnson does youngest from 1967 onwards.... I think : that's partly why I asked about before that & who the youngest is "Believed" to be - but I really don't think anybody actually knows for sure....

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by m.tanney
P.S. Richie: In the course of your Indy WATN research, have you come across anything on Arthur Greiner (1912) or Wilbur D'Alene (1916, '19,'22)?

Most of this thread is now obsolete - Williams was not the youngest & I have all his details & without proof, it does look like the recent 19 year olds are the youngest.

I bring this back to answer the above.
D'Alene - no. Not even close, depsite many leads.

Arthur Greiner, yes, but it is a sad tale.

Arthur W Greiner was born in 1884, in Chicago, Illinois. As is well known, he competed in the first Indianapolis 500, but crashed heaily, killing his mechanic. Greiner was badly injured in this accident & both his mental & physical health took a downturn. An early car dealer, he was taken to a pyschiatric hospital in Chicago, after trying to destroy his apartment & kill both himself & his wife after an argument or an incident in a hotel earlier that day. He was suffering from nervous breakdowns attributed to his back pain. Complications (this is unclear whether say, influenza or suicide) set in & Arthur died a few days later, just before Christmas, on the 15th December 1916.

Just one of many surprises on the upcoming Indy 500 WATN (All of them, now!)

[m.tanney]

Richie,

  A sad but fascinating story. Thank you for posting it. You've whet my appetite for the Indy 500 WATN. Who knows, you may even find something on the mysterious Mr. D'Alene

Mike

[billthekat]

Very doubtful that it was The Influenza since it did not hit America until the Fall and Winter of 1918.

[Richard Jenkins]

Don, no just normal influenza if it was that. Johnny Aitken died of The Influenza IIRC.