45 replies to this topic

[Pils1989]

New scans, including the 328s!
http://homepage.mac....otoAlbum38.html


Antoine

[Holger Merten]

Antoine, interesting, especially the plate of the left one. Do you have any more information?

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Holger Merten
Antoine, interesting, especially the plate of the left one. Do you have any more information?

Hello,
No sorry, in the photo-album, it just says that n° 48 is Roese.
Antoine

[uechtel]

Roese is obviously correct as "IY" stands for the Düsseldorf area.

His car was only private entered while the other BMW 328 were of the NSKK team.

I think we should wake up Eukie...

[Pils1989]

The webpage http://homepage.mac....otoAlbum38.html seems to be down right now

EDIT: back online

[uechtel]

Not at all! Working perfectly from my side. Thanks for the presentation of all those pictures!

[Henk]

Originally posted by uechtel
Roese is obviously correct as "IY" stands for the Düsseldorf area.

;) Meet another grandson....
http://www.ralph.roese.website.ms/

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Henk

;) Meet another grandson....
http://www.ralph.roese.website.ms/

Thx, I've emailed him the link but.... is he a TNFer or not...yet?

[uechtel]

Originally posted by Pils1989


Thx, I've emailed him the link but.... is he a TNFer or not...yet?

I think at the moment still only with "guest" status. Perhaps your invitation will persuade him to join in!

[Pils1989]

Ahem.... I've sent him just the link to my pictures

I don't know how to encourage him properly to join TNF in written words. It would be better if you or someone else email him about TNF

[roeseman]

Hallo,
The "grandson" of Ralph Roese is online: I found the way to TNF. It was not really easy for me, cause my englisch is not so good

I hope, we have a good time !

I`ll get in the first week of the new year pictures of Ralph Roese from 1936!

I wish all TNFer a happy new year.

Best wishes to all

Armin

[Ray Bell]

Welcome Armin... anything you can add would be gratefully accepted.

By the way, is my memory correct on this Antwerp race? Did John Snow run the Delahaye in this event?

[eukie]

Hello "roeseman"
nice to have you here! - and surely you have already discovered our findings (and many open questions) about your grandfather ...: http://forums.atlasf...?threadid=63930
BTW: The friendly people here at TNF seemingly tolerate any form of broken english - just look at my posts ...
Best wishes!
eukie

[roeseman]

Hello @ eukie and @ Ray Bell,

thank you very much for the friendly "hello".
I`ll get many information of my grandfather in the next time. I`ll meet my father in January of 2004, he lived in the near of Düsseldorf. I think that this informations are very interesting for TNF and the user.
At next I`ll translate my website in english language. :


Have a nice evening.

Greetings from Armin

[eukie]

[Marcor]

Welcome Armin.
Ray: yes John F. Snow took part in this race. He finished 4th. Do you know what does the initial F. stand for ?

[Ray Bell]

No, I don't think I do... but John Medley will for sure...

[roeseman]

Hello @ all, hello Ray,

i´ve found something about John Snow and the race at Antwerp:

Grand Prix d'Anvers Date: 22.5.1938


Circuit lenght: 6,437 km Race distance: Winner's average speed: 132,612 km/h

Fastest lap: Louis Gérard No. 2 Delage D6-70 2:31 143,046 km/h

Pos. No. Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/retired Pos. Group Pos. Practice
1. - Robert Mazaud (F) Delahaye 135CS 46094? 84 3:48:02,000 1. 5.0
2. Louis Gérard (F) Delage D6-70 50688 857RK4 Louis Gérard 83 3:49:57,000
3. - Jean Trémoulet (F) Delahaye 135CS 82 3:49:40,000 2. 5.0
4. - John Snow (AUS) Delahaye 135CS 47190 John Snow 82 3:49:56,000 3. 5.0
5. - Jay Willing Delahaye 135CS 47188 DUV870 81 3:50:38,000 4. 5.0
6. - J. Ravenel Bugatti 78 3:50:39,000
7. - Emile Cornet (B) Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 68 3:50:25,000
8. - L. Sven S.S. 100 Jaguar 68 3:50:48,000
Did not finish:
- Gaston Serraud (F) Delahaye 135CS 47192 7102RK Accident
- Goldschmidt Bugatti
- Miller Bugatti
- Jean Viale (F) Delahaye 135CS
Other starters:
- Van Lennep S.S. 100
- Mathieson Bugatti T57S 57491S

Till the next time
greetings from Armin

[Pils1989]

Welcome on board Armin

[VDP]

L Sven same guy as the official starter at francorchamps 60-70 ?
Van Lennep connection with David and Gijs Van Lennep ?

Robert

[roeseman]

Good evening, Antoine, how are you ??????

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by roeseman
Good evening, Antoine, how are you ??????

Hello
How are you?
I'm really tired, just drove +/- 1300km : from Monaco to Brussels.
I have a pizza in the oven and I must not fall asleep
I'll scan the Chimay's 328 pictures tomorow

See you,
Antoine

[john medley]

Marcor and Ray
Full names John Frederick Snow, heir to the Snows Stores ( Sydney ) fortune, and born 25th October 1915, which made him just 22-and- a-bit at Antwerp in 1938 , and just 20-and-a-bigger-bit when he made his international long distance sports car racing debut at Spa in 1936.

[Marcor]

there are some confusion about the results of this race. The organisers forgot to count 1 lap to Trémoulet who was first declared third but there were later a correction. An other doubt was the 7th and 8th placings (order reversed or not).

the results would be:
Sportscars + 2 L
1- Robert Mazaud (Delahaye #14)
2- Jean Trémoulet (Delahaye #6)
3- Louis Gérard (Delage #2)
4- John snow (Delahaye #16)
5- James Willing (Delahaye #18)
6- J. Ravenel (Bugatti 57 #4)
7- Emile Cornet (Alfa Romeo #24)
8- Leon Sven (SS Jaguar #22), yes the Famous Francorchamps organiser

DNF:
Jean Viale (Delahaye #10)
TASO Mathieson (Bugatti 57S 57491S #8)
Pierre Goldschmid (Bugatti 43A #12)
Gaston Serraud (Delahaye #20)

DNA:
"Danniell" (Delahaye #20), replaced by Serraud, his mechanic
Joseph Paul (Delahaye #10), injured at Brooklands, replaced by Viale
Jean Prenant (Delage #4)
Jonkheer Marnix van Lennep (Jaguar SS 100 #16)

In the first entry list:
Pierre Bouillin (Bugatti or Talbot)
Janus van der Kamp (Ford)
Prince Leon Narischkine

Sportscars 2 L
1- Ralph Roëse (BMW 328 #48), 4h 07m 08s, 84 laps
2- Willy Briem (BMW 328 #44), 4h 08m 51s, 82 laps
3- Paul Heinemann (BMW 328 #34), 4h 07m 45s, 81 laps
4- Raoul Forestier (Riley TT #36), 4h 09m 36s, 81 laps
5- Prince Max von Schaumburg-Lippe (BMW 328 #26), 4h 10m 06s, 80 laps
6- G. Réano (Lancia Aprilia #46), 4h 07m 39s, 71 laps
7- Freddy Thellusson (Lancia Aprilia #40), 4h 07m 37s, 70 laps

DNF
Freddy E. Clifford (Aston Martin #42)
Edmond Hertzberger (Aston Martin SpeedModel H6/711/U #36)
Franz Gouvion (Lancia Aprilia #30)
"E Müller" (Emile Schiffelers) (Bugatti #32)
Alexandre Todd (MG Magnette #38)

[cabianca]

Does anyone know if the Goldschmidt who was a DNF in this race was the same Erwin Goldschmidt who emerged as an American Allard and Ferrari racer after the war?

[Marcor]

Pierre Goldschmidt was Belgian. He also took part in 2 Chimay races (1938 - 1939). No mention of him after the war.

[roeseman]

Hello cabianca,

I´ve found something about "Pierre" Goldschmidt from a 24 h race in 1936 in Spa. Please look here in the entry list:

http://www.scr.civ.p...36_24h_spa.html

But I don´t know, if he is the same person like "Erwin" Goldschmidt.

Armin

[anjakub]

Webpage www.scr.civ.pl are a copy of the http://wsrp.wz.cz.
Look http://wsrp.wz.cz/prewar.html - year 1936

[uechtel]

Hello Armin,

welcome here!

And a happy new year to all people on TNF out there!

[roeseman]

Hello @ all,

in one of my last postings I wrote about a very good picture of Ralph Roese. Here it is:





Ralph Roese is third person from left. Adolf Brudes is second person from right. I think, that´s the race in 1938 at Antwerpen.

Now my questions: Who are the other persons on this picture and can anyone exactly identify them ?

That´s for today.
See you
Armin

[uechtel]

Hello Armin,

I don´t think that this is Antwerpen, where Roese took the start as privateer and (to my information) Brudes was not present at all. But on your picture Roese wears the NSKK-emplem on his suit, which suggests, that he is official team member.

So I rather think the picture is from the 24 hour race at Spa-Francorchamps (10.7.1938), another of your grandfather´s great successes, partnered by von Schaumburg-Lippe (of course two drivers per car in such a race).

No. 44 was driven by Heinemann / Brudes, No. 42 Schaumburg-Lippe / Roese and No. 46 Briem Scholz.

I´m quite sure the man left to Roese is Prince Max zu Schaumburg-Lippe, the guy on the right corner might be Willi Briem. The rest is unknown to me, either mechanics or drivers of another stable.

[roeseman]

Hello uechtel,

you are right. It was the 24h race at Spa Francorchamps on 10.07.1938. I recherched a little bit and I think, we have identifyd them all now:

From left: Paul Heinemann, Max zu Schaumburg-Lippe, Ralph Roese, Rudolf Scholtz, Adolf Brudes, Willi Briem.

The entry list:

Pos. No. Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/retired Pos. Group Pos. Practice
1. 4 Carlo Pintacuda (I)
Francesco Severi (I) Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B compr. 412032 MI630 Alfa Corse 201 24:02:45,000 1. +4.0
2. 18 Louis Gérard (F)
Georges Monneret (F) Delage D6-70 50688 857RK4 Louis Gérard 200 23:59:54,000 1. 4.0
3. 42 Max Schaumburg-Lippe (D)
Ralph Roese (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1. 2.0
4. 44 Paul Heinemann (D)
Adolf Brudes (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 2. 2.0
5. 46 Willi Briem (D)
Rudolf Scholtz (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 3. 2.0
6. 34 Huschke von Hanstein (D)
von der Mühle Adler Trumpf 'Rennlimusine' Adler Werke 171 24:00:27,000 4. 2.0
7. 30 Otto Löhr (D)
Paul von Guilleaume (D) Adler Trumpf 'Rennlimusine' IT 101156 Adler Werke 170 24:00:25,000 5. 2.0
8. 60 Amedée Gordini (F)
José Scaron (F) Simca 8 803247 725RL8 Equipe Gordini 162 24:00:16,000 1. 1.1
9. 54 Réano
Humblet Lancia Aprilia M. Tounquet 160 24:00:18,000 1. 1.5
10. 52 Frédéric Thelusson (F)
Ernest André Lancia Aprilia M. Tounquet 158 24:00:18,000 2. 1.5
11. 50 Franz Gouvion
Guerrini Lancia Aprilia M. Tounquet 158 24:00:18,000 3. 1.5
12. 66 Angelo Molinari (F)
Adrien Alin (F) Fiat 508S Balilla 0770 6629RJ 144 24:00:25,000 2. 1.1
13. 38 Karl Haeberle (D)
W. Scholle Hanomag Sport Diesel IS 204890 133 24:00:28,000 6. 2.0
14. 20 Max Thirion (B)
Franz Breyre Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 2111013


You´ll see, that Schaumburg-Lippe/Roese won the 2 Liter class!! In all classes they are on third place !!

You´re right, this is a great success !!!!!!! (One of them)

Until the next time

Armin

[David McKinney]

Surely the three BMWs dead-heated for third overall, and first in the 2-litre class?

[roeseman]

Hello David,

I am sure, please look at the entry list from my last posting.

You also can take a look here:

http://www.wsrp.wz.cz/prewar1938.html

Armin

[uechtel]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Surely the three BMWs dead-heated for third overall, and first in the 2-litre class?

Sure...



To me it seems, that the NSKK always put a strong emphase on the TEAM effort.




And Armin, thank you very much for the results!

13. 38 Karl Haeberle (D)
W. Scholle Hanomag Sport Diesel IS 204890 133 24:00:28,000 6. 2.0

This reads very interesting. Was this the first time a Diesel-engined car took part in a race?

Any more informations on that?

[David McKinney]

I'm familiar with Martin's website, but it wasn't compiled in 1938.
Reports I have seen were - and they say the three BMWs dead-heated for third.
If you look at the times, you'll see all three cars completed the same distance in exactly the same time, which surely confirms this.
Which is in no way meant to detract from your grandfather's fine record.

[roeseman]

This reads very interesting. Was this the first time a Diesel-engined car took part in a race?

I´m sorry, but I have only this result from Hanomag Sport Diesel and no information about this engine or this car. It is of course very interesting, Haeberle/Scholle finished on 6. place in the 2.0 Liter class.

To me it seems, that the NSKK always put a strong emphase on the TEAM effort.

That´s right too, ´cause the NSKK said: a racedriver win the race, that´s very good, but when a team wins the race, that´s better !

If you look at the times, you'll see all three cars completed the same distance in exactly the same time, which surely confirms this.

And I think, that´s why they had in this race all the same laps in the same time.

See you,
Armin

[David McKinney]

So this must be the correct result

Pos. No. Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/retired Pos. Group Pos. Practice
1. 4 Carlo Pintacuda (I)
Francesco Severi (I) Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B compr. 412032 MI630 Alfa Corse 201 24:02:45,000 1. +4.0
2. 18 Louis Gérard (F)
Georges Monneret (F) Delage D6-70 50688 857RK4 Louis Gérard 200 23:59:54,000 1. 4.0
3= 42 Max Schaumburg-Lippe (D)
Ralph Roese (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1= 2.0
3= 44 Paul Heinemann (D)
Adolf Brudes (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1= 2.0
3= 46 Willi Briem (D)
Rudolf Scholtz (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1= 2.0
6. 34 Huschke von Hanstein (D)
von der Mühle Adler Trumpf 'Rennlimusine' Adler Werke 171 24:00:27,000 4. 2.0
etc etc

??

[uechtel]

Originally posted by David McKinney
So this must be the correct result

Pos. No. Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/retired Pos. Group Pos. Practice
1. 4 Carlo Pintacuda (I)
Francesco Severi (I) Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B compr. 412032 MI630 Alfa Corse 201 24:02:45,000 1. +4.0
2. 18 Louis Gérard (F)
Georges Monneret (F) Delage D6-70 50688 857RK4 Louis Gérard 200 23:59:54,000 1. 4.0
3= 42 Max Schaumburg-Lippe (D)
Ralph Roese (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1= 2.0
3= 44 Paul Heinemann (D)
Adolf Brudes (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1= 2.0
3= 46 Willi Briem (D)
Rudolf Scholtz (D) BMW 328 BMW Werke 180 24:00:52,000 1= 2.0
6. 34 Huschke von Hanstein (D)
von der Mühle Adler Trumpf 'Rennlimusine' Adler Werke 171 24:00:27,000 4. 2.0
etc etc

??

Not necessarily. While teams sometimes try to make a dead-heat usually organizers play spoil-sports by using the photo finish. So while the dead-heaters may cross the line within a fractal of a second it is hard to do that absolutely parallel without a centimeter margin to any of them. So even if they arrive at exactly the same time it is still possible that they receive their placings separately.

I remember one of the last Olympic Games Marathon, when two Russians tried to make a dead heat for third, which did not work because of that and only one of the receiving the medal. The race at Spa in 1938 might have been a similar case. So I don´t think we will be able to deduct the final result here by conclusion. Instead what we would need is certainly some official document.

[David McKinney]

I cannot, and do not, dispute your comments, uechtel
As mentioned in an earlier post, my 'dead heat' comment was based on contemporary reports. My recasting of the results posted in the thread was merely to illustrate that point

[roeseman]

Hello again,

a good friend of mine told me yesterday, that Adolf Brudes drove after 1950 for a long time for "Borgward". Have anyone some information about this time ?

Another question:
Does anyone knows what happend with the privat racingcars of Ralph Roese after his dead 1950 ?

See you
Armin

[uechtel]

Originally posted by roeseman
[B]Hello again,

a good friend of mine told me yesterday, that Adolf Brudes drove after 1950 for a long time for "Borgward". Have anyone some information about this time ?

Yes, Brudes was with Borgward from 1952 to 1954. It looks as if he was already over his top and played the role of something like an experienced No. 2 driver for the team. But nevertheless he was in the winning team of the Nürburgring 1000 km race in 1953 (1500 cc class), partnered by Bechem and Helfrich.

Another question:
Does anyone knows what happend with the privat racingcars of Ralph Roese after his dead 1950 ?

I think eukie posted in one of the threads here, that the car went to Josef Peters, who was also from Düsseldorf and appeared for the first time atb the end of the 1950 season at the Grenzlandring.

[Pils1989]

The 1938 pictures are back online : Antwerp GP 1938
I see Armin has translated some part of his website in English btw.

[Jager]

I lived in Antwerp for 4 years, but never knew there had been a Gran Prix there.

Can someone tell me where the track was located, or point me in the direction of more information about the track.

[Vitesse2]

http://www.silhouet....ks/antwerp.html

Looking at a current map, it looks like not all the circuit is still there, part of the angled link road having been obliterated by the new R1 which runs N-S.

[roeseman]

Hello at all,

I found out that the BMW 328 of Ralph Roese with the chassis No. 85018 itself in England decides, in the property of Werner Oswald.
Ralph Roese even shall a BMW 315/1 in the course of his racer-time, two BMW 328 and after the war a Veritas had. It would be interesting to learn more about these vehicles.

Now another question: Does somebody of you have a contact-address of the family of Paul Heinemann in his records?

Many greetingses at all,

Armin