32 replies to this topic

[Sting]

There are babes (such as Angele Seeling) winning in Drag racing. There was some old tart driving IndyCars (can't remember her name).Come on, let's see some T & A in a McLaren, or whatever, as long as she's cute!

[Rogue]

Probably because women don't get taken seriously enough behind the wheel of a motor car, as you have just perfectly illustrated...

No offence, but as the powers that be are largely male, many of which are the older generation (they're largely the ones that have the money), the attitude that you have just portrayed will continue to relegate women to roles as 'pitchicks'.

Regards,

[Rogue]

Read this:

http://www.planet-f1...f1/ENG?hobbs=02

Regards,

[Mobile_Chicane]

True,

That is probably the main reason why it is not happening.

A female driver in F1 would be great and would also broaden the audience a lot more.

But, I quess the powers behind it all don't see it so.

Physically, I don't see why females couldn't do as well as males in racing cars. They make excellent fighter pilots and in US air force or was it NASA tests they even equal and exceed the G-force tolerance of male pilots.

[Nathan]

I dont think baby chickens have the mental or phyical capacity to drive a Formula-1 race car

[Rogue]

Clever

[Nathan]

Thanks, I strive

[JayWay]

Danika is a hotty, get her a ride!

[Sting]

Good info, Rogue. Mobile, I saw a documentary recently on the subject of 'G' force tests, where women were able to withstand higher loads than men, equipped with 'G' suits etc. It was performed by the US Air force, I believe they theorized it was due to a females smaller structure, arteries etc.
Not wishing to sound anti-feminist, I personally have difficulty believing that women have the 'killer instinct' and sheer strength to endure these types of stresses over a prolonged period of time. I am sure there are exceptions, but they must be few and far between. All credit to those that do make the grade.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack for my remarks, but in the event my flat on the 10th floor catches fire, and I need to be carried out by a fireman, I know which sex I want him to be.

[theMot]

pppppffftttttttt women racing cars is just ghetto! If my woman said she wanted to race a car i would be all like "Hey woman get back in there and make me my dinner!"

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

the race track is one of the last places where women dont go (unless they are models) Please leave it like that!

[Williams]

I think women are physically and technically as able or maybe even more able than men to drive an F1 car, but I don't think they have the aggression that is required to fight their way up through the ranks.

Plus, there is a catch-22 when it comes to hiring women as race drivers. Because there are so few of them, we dont't know for sure whether they can generally succeed as well as men. So we don't take the risk and try them out when they come along, leaving their numbers small, and leaving the question of possible success for women in car racing up in the air.

The only way to break that logjam is for a really super-talented female driver, a female Ayrton Senna, to come along and basically stomp all over the field. That hasn't happened yet, and with the small numbers of women actually interested in participating in car racing, it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

[Mosquito]

I wouldn't mind women racing in F1. BUT. I would freak out if it was done purely for political correctness, publicity or some women liberation act.

If any woman is fast enough to make it, fine. She'll probably be ugly as hell, so, extra viewers for the T&A category will not me thrilled. Best T&A can usually be found NEXT to the cars. (Especially the yellow ones...;))

I don't think it's gonna happen soon. The difference starts already from the cradle. As long as boys are mostly given skelters and dinkey toys, and gorls are shoved with dolls and puppet houses, the mentallity advantage will be on the male side.

And, I think that in general men are physically and mentally better equiped for driving cars fast. It's probably since men will always stay big boys with bigger toys.

There has been the odd attempt with women in F1. It flunked, big time.[p][Edited by Mosquito on 07-02-2000]

[Turbo]

Simple, the interest and opportunities have not been there in abundance for the past 10-15 years. F1 is the pinnacle, and to get to the pinnacle you have to rise up through the ranks--karts, FFord or whatever, F3, F3000, etc etc. As more women enter the lower ranks, eventually a few will make it to the top.

As far as "killer instinct," if you think women do not or cannot possess this, I'd be glad to introduce you to one or two of my former girlfriends who could demonstrably show otherwise in a variety of arenas.

Oh, and yes Danica looks like a babe, as does Zannizzi (sp?--DellaPenna's favorite lower-series South-American driver) if that's what you're looking for. I don't mind ugly for fast, but nothing wrong with fast and beautiful, just like a Ferrari 550 Maranello.

Oh, physical skills--G forces don't seem a problem. If women can pilot jets, they can handle F1 cars. Neck strength would seem to be the major barrier, though something that could be built up. Lynn St James (the "old chick" someone above was wondering about) did extensive training for neck strength before her first Indy, as documented in some PBS special I saw ages ago. Take Da Matta in CART--120 pounds and he has no problem getting the car around with style. Arm/upper body strength--in general would be at a disadvantage but could be trained into shape with no problem. Cardiovascular (probably the major requirement)--no problem.

So sure, it will happen eventually. It will be an advertising/sponsorship coup when it does BTW--I hope the next F1 female driver gets it on merit and not on curiosity/marketing appeal.

[Samurai]

In Akira's thread with the nice old pictures of Finnish past, there was mention of a female driver who was quite consistently fast. Actually beating Mika Hakkinen (and Mika Salo) in these junior formulas.

[Turbo]

Oh, one potential problem I forget about (I think Peter mentioned this in an old thread?)--racing harness, severe braking, and breasts.;)

Don't flame me, I'm just joking...

[Arnaldo]

The advertising potential of women in F1 has not been properly considered. The use of women in cigarette advertising is blatantly obvious, and I am sure all of you ca think of some other field, including cars. However, I do agree that few men like being beaten by a woman (no, I don't mean those M&M nuts). I would like to see a girl get to the top in F3 first, then we can see how they can kick arse. But women must take the ofensive in their marketting approach, seek endorsements in new fields where they obviously would be more attention getting than men. Try tobacco, beer, bacardi, whatever. They must realise that they hold far more advertising appeal than men, and use this to their advantage to get cash support for motor racing.

[Nomad]

Women DONT lack aggression
Check out the PC.

The breast thing wouldn't be a problem, if you look at the top women athletes, they don't have any.

[Williams]

Nomad what's "the PC "?

[OverTaker]

God I hate this, but I'm with Mosquito on this one.

[bigblue]

Two words-----Michelle Mouton (sp?) If a women can kick ass in a group B rally car I feel it can be done in F1 also. Equating speed with beauty is a little childish IMO. I for one would love to see it. If a women can fly a fighter jet and put a AAMRAM missile up someones butt I think they could muster the agressiveness to drive a race car.

[Yelnats]

About the effects of 4 G's on the female anatomy.

Picture the Buzzin Hornet Girls at 4 lateral G's!!!

Jeeeezzzee!!!

[schumilover]

That stuff couldn't survive 4g's or was that the point
I disagree with the whole female lack of aggression thang.
cos i said so RIGHT.
I basically agree with all the above statements - t and a and i never saw the mots...~
I think a womans touch could add a hell of a lot to the sport,smarter bitchier racing--fun!Think of all the wonderful mindgames!Could move merchandising into an entirely stratisphere too.
Unfortunately I can't see it happenin so long as motorsport in general is controlled by the old boys brigade --its gonna take one hell of a dollybird to cope with the pressure ..can't wait!Do you think Gina Maria will be up for it before her 18

[arcwulf7]

I can't get those those pictures of a female pilot crashing her F-14 into the side of an aircraft carrier a few years ago out of my mind. There are bad male pilots too of course, but they all get washed out. She apparently was the best of the lot and couldn't be washed out. Reactions, tactics, physical strength, sliding scales of competence-- i know-- i'm a dinosaur. They do pretty well in transports i'm told. So what the 'ell, they can't be much more dangerous or confused than some of the other backmarkers in F1 today. If they do it (and it may be inevitable) I hope they do the Anna Kournikova thing, bring in the media and the crowds and forget about the performance.[p][Edited by arcwulf7 on 07-04-2000]

[schumilover]

Someone Anna kornikova simpley won't cut it whatda mean women dangerous cos years ago u saw some old bat lose it

[Ray Bell]

For sure, a woman in F1 would help men in their quest to get their women to watch it with them.... but the cameras would have to follow her a lot to satisfy them... say, what about a corner of the screen devoted to following the woman driver?

[desmo]

It's certainly possible. I doubt there are any physiological or psychological reasons a woman couldn't excel in F1, but given the eagerness with which most of us seem to embrace the roles we are assigned by our cultures the math says it's not too likely.

[Pacific]

Sarah Fisher is the 19 year old female driver in the IRL. She is not a F1 prospect. She's under Derrick Walker's wing, but it's going to be a struggle to get into CART. We'll have to wait and see, apparently Derrick is hopeful he can get a second car going in the future. Although, Honda is the reason he's in CART this year. Without their help he probably wouldn't have a CART team this year.

As for why women aren't involved in auto racing more one large reason is children. If one of the F1 drivers has a kid, the most time he spent on making it was one evening pretty much. That's if you consider the whole ordeal working up to conception, and of course the few days it can take for the sperm to get to the egg. Anyway, a woman on the other hand has it for nine months, and then has the baby. Well, it's not over yet, often times comes the months of breast feeding and vital nurturing etc. And as a female driver, the process of regaining conditioning would begin again. A female driver could expect to lose two seasons having a kid realistically. By that time, things change and a lot can pass you by. It's very difficult. And with F1, that'd be even more difficult. Especially with F1 "changing rainbows" all the time as Charles Schultz once had Lucy put it. Having a family is large part of life for most people and a major goal. For the woman, there's more sacrifice involved. Sure, a surrogate mother is an option, but, it's not an overly popular method and generally people that can have it the normal way do. It's part of the experience of having a family and the emotional attachment to the child is bound to be higher considering. So, kids is one major reason.

The second is sponsorship. Sarah Kavanaugh's manager has discussed on end how difficult it is to get Sarah sponsorship because so many male CEO's and upper management personnel, who all own their own sports car like Porsche and are stars on the highway, have to much ego and arrogance to believe many men have better driving skills than them, let alone some woman. Well, that is the case. What women like Michelle Mouton and Sarah Kavanaugh, etc, can do behind the wheel is pretty extraordinary in the whole scheme of things. He says generally only older management personnel of companies are high on the idea of sponsoring a woman because their youthful arrogance and ego has passed by the wayside and that feeling of wanting to help another young person begins to become present moreso. Still, few women in auto racing have a sponsorship package like Pedro de la Rosa for instance. He's HIGHLY qualified too.

Or you have drivers like Pedro Diniz, who have some skill but family backing. This is true in the IRL in drivers like Sam Hornish with Hornish Brothers Trucking being the sponsor that helps him get that ride. Sam has the skill, but teams need sponsors to survive and if a driver has skill AND a sponsorship package, you're in. Ask Richie Hearn, the tie-breaker between him and Fontana was that Fontana had the sponsors. (I like Fontana more anyway, but it's still a good point.) Sometimes drivers like Dennis Vitolo get solid backing (SmithKlineBeecham) while a guy like Memo Gedley...or Bryan Herta for that matter. Or Gualter Salles even. Gualter should have been the full time driver with Payton-Coyne, he's SO much better than Vitolo. Vitolo was not very good as far as CART is concerned. I'm surprised Vitolo didn't opt for the IRL, which fits his skill-set (ovals) better.

So, now we have having a family and sponsorship woes. Not to mention female drivers don't often get the family backing that a young son can get. Most dads don't picture their daughters as racecar drivers. Except for those rare cases like Sarah Fisher, who raced since she was 5 if I recall correctly in go-karts.

Here's in the States, if Sarah Fisher can have some success in the IRL and move up to CART and perform there, some interest would bound to be sparked by those girls who have been contemplating it and families would see it as a legit option. If Shawna Robinson can continue to perform in ARCA and move back up to NBS and perform there, that'd be helpful. If CART's female driver program gets more recognition, that'd certainly help. Lyn St. James has been trying to raise awareness that this is an option for young women. I mean, a female driver is bound to be 120 pouns (like 5'3" Sarah Fisher) than a male driver. Sure, Cristiano da Matta is out there, so is Roberto Moreno, Giancarlo Fisichella, and all those other lightweights. But, you'd think that a lot of the girls good at track and field that have good coordination and eyesight could race cars. They have some competitiveness to them already, they have physical fitness, reaction time usually, I mean. There's no reason why a woman couldn't become strong enough in the gym to race in CART, F1, etc. I mean, Sarah Fisher has some base to be wheeling around sprint cars as a teenager. (Ever see Steve Kinser after one of those, he's a mess, good God. That's more Kinser than anything else)

All it takes is for one woman to break through. Sarah Fisher COULD be the one in the States. I don't know how well drivers like Kavanaugh and Mouton are promoted across Europe. And again, some company has to break the mold. With a good advertising campaign, you can make your drivers household names even though your series as poor ratings. (Dear Target, thanks for your continued support of CART racing over the past 10+ seasons.) It'll have to be a family type sponsor too. The widespread appeal of KOOL cigarettes is not the same as what say Wal-Mart could achieve. Target is actually a surprising sponsor for CART in that the average CART viewer is more sophisticated than your average Target shopper, yet...Wal-Mart is a store more towards your average NASCAR types. Generally middle class to lower class who enjoy the wrecks and watch Roller Jam on TNN and WWF, WCW, and whatever TNN has now. Some NASCAR fans are there than enjoy F1, CART, etc. (Myself for instance, but it's not common.) The same reasons why CART fails here is the same reason soccer (football everywhere else) does. Most Americans want action, action, action. It's there in movies, TV, everything. Most people here can't appreciate a great 1-1 tie in hockey after a titanic defensive effort yet with some goals, same for soccer, same CART, and especially F1.

I hope Sarah Fisher can break through to help revive CART, gain the IRL some attention too, and while Fisher is not an F1 prospect, she can help get the ball rolling a bit more along with a few other female drivers here in the States to get more girls into it and more to stay with it. To be seen as a viable option. In Europe, for F1, CART, etc type racing, the atmosphere of racing is different, so, that's not against them. To me, people in Europe just need to wake up more to the talents of Kavanaugh, Mouton, etc. If some company in Europe would break ranks and sponsor an upcoming, talented, female driver, I think things would change. Unfortunately, in today's society, for a female driver to get a major sponsor, it WILL be a necessity that she be somewhat good looking. I'm not certain Fisher is attractive enough for that. She always looks pretty good when she has a polo shirt on with her hair in a pony tail through her hat, but if Jennifer-Love Hewitt in a racecar comes by with some talent, watch out world. Watch out poor young woman, she'll get bombarded too.

I'm sure most men have difficulty believing WNBA basketball players are better than them too. It's not just a woman issue, the attitudes of men have to change for the large part.

[Ray Bell]

I think Nomad would fit into a cockpit very well... and there's a thread somewhere that proves she has the necessary aggression... what say you, SA? and what about this PC?

[Ray Bell]

And another reason, it's there in theMot's post, in the signature...

[Arnaldo]

OK,OK,OK,OK!!! Lets put the horse before the CART. This is an area where I have no info whatsoever, seeing I don't read motor mags anymore, just the internet F1 stuff. Where we should start is F3. How many girls are doing well there in Europe?

[Daemon]

There are plenty already on the grid, before the race that is. And what a great thing it is too. Seriously, though, there is no backing for them, and not enough of them in junior Formulae....The thing is, would any of the current team owners take a risk with one. I doubt it.

[rayt]

What gets me is in most sports, Men physically peak at 30, women at 16. Look at tennis, swimming, diving, gymnastics. and how much younger the women are that are at the top levels.

One thing that I've always wondered about is commitment for the long haul, to reach the top, no matter the cost. Men are quite willing to sacrifice everything to make it to the top of thier profession (Gilles Villeneuve, selling everything he owned so he could race in Europe is a good example), and some women do too, but not in the numbers that men do.

[Ray Bell]

Pat Moss, Stirling's sister, was a top line rally driver in the fifties and sixties.. Stirling took her out on the circuit one day and noticed she backed off well before she had to brake for a corner.
He said to her, "I promise not to do this anywhere dangerous, but when I say stop, I want you to brake as hard as you can and bring the car to a stop."
So they stormed off, and when she backed off he shouted to stop, and they finished up parked a couple of hundred yards before the corner.
That taught her a lesson, but it showed him, and perhaps many more, that women don't have that killer instinct, the desire to get the absolute most out of themselves and the car.
There may well be exceptions, however, and they may well turn up in race cars from time to time... but the fact that they are exceptions is the reason they won't be considered. Unless they are very lucky..
I think, by the way, there's a thread in the Nostalgia Forum about this topic, and it identifies a couple of women who have driven to the top rank over the decades.
As for me, the highest level woman I saw was Lella Lombardi, and she looked like a bloke!
Go to that thread for more, anyway, perhaps do a search for the name Desire Wilson... not more than two weeks ago.