183 replies to this topic

[David McKinney]

You're right, I did

The early cars were certainly Blue Bird, but I thought they gradually morphed into Bluebird. Sloppy non-specialist journalism, perhaps?

[Tim Murray]

In the earlier thread Steve H is adamant that Malcolm C only ever used the name Blue Bird. It was Donald who first officially used Bluebird.

[ensign14]

Oopsie, gimme a mo on that other thread...

[f1steveuk]

I'm still adamant!!

[Cargo]

Very interesting article on Today's Sky News about Campbell's Bluebird

 

 

http://news.sky.com/...-fired-up-again

 

Edited by Cargo, 29 January 2014 - 11:14.

[f1steveuk]

There was an article in a UK paper yesterday that featured a picture of Donald's Proteus powered Bluebird CN7, that then went on to tell me that Sir Malcolm's first ever Blue Bird was going to be started again. A fine illustration of bad journalism!! Confused cars of different eras and drivers, ignored all the Blue Birds that came before the 350HP Sunbeam, and made the usual mistake of claiming it was powered by a Manitou aero' engine (it was a one off special), but on the other hand, they drew attention to the event, shame they can't be bothered to research things!! So wish I could be there

[Vitesse2]

Very interesting article on Today's Sky News about Campbell's Bluebird

 

 

http://news.sky.com/...-fired-up-again

 

I'm sure the inhabitants of Brockenhurst would be surprised to find that the NMM has apparently moved seven miles.west. Or - alternatively - that their village has been transported seven miles to the east.

[ensign14]

That's climate change for you.

[D-Type]

Hmmmm.

 

Who did 407.518 mph in 1956?

 

Cobb was 1947 and Mickey Thompson 1960-61

[kartman24]

Can anyone provide a link to a video with sound of the car being started?.......Martin

[Vitesse2]

[D-Type]

Hmmmm.

 

Who did 407.518 mph in 1956?

 

Cobb was 1947 and Mickey Thompson 1960-61

To answer my own question: Craig Breedlove did 407.518 mph in Spirit of America, but it was in 1963!  Poor research by the Sky News writer (I won't dignify someone that incompetent by calling him a journalist)

Edited by D-Type, 31 January 2014 - 22:36.

[Vitesse2]

Very poor research, considering that Breedlove's mark was rejected by the FIA on two counts: Spirit of America only had three wheels and - more importantly - was jet-powered, so did not comply with the regulation which said that cars had to be driven through the wheels. There were projects for jet cars as early as 1946, but the FIA rules - written in mid-1946 - excluded them (and propellor-driven vehicles, come to that!), so none were built.

 

Breedlove's figure was only recognised by the FIM. Which I suppose means Spirit of America was a jet tricycle ...

[Allan Lupton]

To answer my own question: Craig Breedlove did 407.518 mph in Spirit of America, but it was in 1963!  Poor research by the Sky News writer (I won't dignify someone that incompetent by calling him a journalist)

There's a lot of poorly researched LSR "data" on the internet which I expect is where they do all their "research" nowadays.

One site tells us the Mephistopheles had a V-12 motor and that Campbell's 1932 car was a "Napier-Railton Bluebird" with a Rolls-Royce V-12 motor

[Pullman99]

The recent Kop Hill Climb and some of the Brooklands events over the past 18 months or so have featured a Napier Sea Lion engined recreation of the 1927 Blue Bird built by Lorne Jacobs.

 

Just wondered if anyone knew anything more about it?      Looks very nice!  Link to Bluebird Supporters Club Facebook piece below

 

https://www.facebook...803016586462238

[Pullman99]

Just thought I'd  bump this back up to the top of the Forum.

 

Anyone know anything further about the building of this recreation (?) of the 1927 iteration of Blue Bird.     Seems to have been featured at several recent events.

[Pullman99]

I attended the Friends evening at the National Motor Museum last Saturday to hear a talk - primarily on his book "The British are Coming" and his own forthcoming diesel class record contender the Project 100 - by Mike Varndell. Very enjoyable and well attended.

 

Ian Stanfield, the NMM's Chief Engineer, also provided an update on the progress to restore the 1000HP Sunbeam to full working order. The 90th anniversary of Henry Segrave's 1927 record of 203.79mph - the first LSR at over 200mph - is on Wednesday of this week, the 29th March. I believe that the intention was to have completed the rebuild by the anniversary date but this has proved not to be possible. The scale of the work on the two Sunbeam Matabele engines is immense and, due mainly to having retained Castrol R in them since they were last run, meant that it took some 18 months just to free off each one. Quite a number of new components have been required including some vital items removed by Sunbeam and Segrave at the time. One intriguing mention was made by Ian of the car having been run by Sunbeam as late as 1939 although I have always assumed that the two runs, post-record, at Brooklands and at Montlhery, in 1927 were the only occasions that the car had been operated (both times driven by Segrave). Does anyone know if it was run again after 1927?

 

Funding, as ever, remains the principal brake on progress but there are many engineering firms throughout the UK that are actively providing components and the results I have seen are truly superb.  

[Vitesse2]

 

One intriguing mention was made by Ian of the car having been run by Sunbeam as late as 1939 although I have always assumed that the two runs, post-record, at Brooklands and at Montlhery, in 1927 were the only occasions that the car had been operated (both times driven by Segrave). Does anyone know if it was run again after 1927?

 

I've done extensive research and reading about 1939, but have never seen any reference to the Sunbeam being exercised. I'm pretty sure the press - specialist and national - would have mentioned it, given the amount of interest in Eyston's, Cobb's, Gardner's and Campbell's exploits that year.

 

However, there is a comment in the Irish Times 21/8/39 about Campbell's water speed record at Coniston with K4 using 'a twelve years old engine used by the late Sir Henry Segrave'. Not a Matabele, obviously - K4 used the Rolls Royce R which had powered K3. And of course the R was still on the drawing board in 1927 ...

 

So maybe something got lost in the translation?

 

Both Segrave's record cars - The Slug and Golden Arrow - were exhibited in the SMMT's Golden Jubilee parade in London in 1946, BTW.

[Doug Nye]

At the British Motor Mechanics' Club annual bash the other day - in the Brooklands Clubhouse - we ran a small charity auction.  One of the Lots was sold to a visiting American enthusiast present at the dinner. I was conducting the Sale and when he stood to come up and collect his purchase I thought it would be fitting to introduce him to the 100 or so great racing mechanics present.

 

I was able to point to a big mural photograph on the wall there and explain that our guest had something in common with the great gentleman depicted in that picture.  

 

It was of John Cobb - pounding around the Members' Banking in the wonderful Napier-Railton.  The guest I introduced to the boys was Charlie Nearburg, and what Cobb and he had in common was flashing across Bonneville Salt Flats at more than 400mph.  If you are interested, or intrigued, see here:

 

http://jalopnik.com/...-engine-tribute

 

And the boys at Brooklands gave him a great reception which - I am happy to report - embarrassed the hell out of him... Like Cobb - Charlie is a proper chap.

 

DCN

[ensign14]

Heh, I remember Nearburg from one of Dale Coyne's spear-carriers back in the 90s.  Didn't know he was an LSR combatant.

[Pullman99]

I've done extensive research and reading about 1939, but have never seen any reference to the Sunbeam being exercised. I'm pretty sure the press - specialist and national - would have mentioned it, given the amount of interest in Eyston's, Cobb's, Gardner's and Campbell's exploits that year.   So maybe something got lost in the translation?  Both Segrave's record cars - The Slug and Golden Arrow - were exhibited in the SMMT's Golden Jubilee parade in London in 1946, BTW

Yes, I thought the date a bit odd too.   I asked Ian about this and he believes that it is correct but, given that Segrave removed parts from the car (and later the Golden Arrow) to prevent it being driven, so the date may, in fact, be incorrect.   I think that the National Motor Museum should be applauded for extending what had been a conservation survey on all of the LSR cars into a scheme to return one of the real icons of LSR history (although I suppose they all are) to roar again.    The museum has, effectively, the largest collection in the world of Sunbeam aero-engines and the most comprehensive practical experience of working on them since not only Segrave's day but the First World War.    I hope Ian Stanfield can be persuaded to record all of this as at least a magazine feature or possibly as a lecture presentation.     Makes restoring the odd Titian or Rembrandt look easy.  (Their cars were rubbish, BTW)...

 

The SMM&T's activities in promoting this anniversary in 1946 have always fascinated me.     There are many elements of today's motor vehicle preservation movement and motor museums that have their roots in this event.   

Edited by Pullman99, 13 March 2019 - 14:10.

[Vitesse2]

 

The SMM&T's activities in promoting this anniversary in 1946 have always fascinated me.     There are many elements of today's motor vehicle preservation movement and motor museums that have their roots in this event.   

Would you happen to have a report of the Coventry to Birmingham event? Doesn't seem to have been covered by the national papers and I don't recall anything in the weeklies either. And I wonder if they ever recovered the Union Jack that somebody stole off Monty's Humber in Belfast?

[Pullman99]

Would you happen to have a report of the Coventry to Birmingham event? Doesn't seem to have been covered by the national papers and I don't recall anything in the weeklies either. And I wonder if they ever recovered the Union Jack that somebody stole off Monty's Humber in Belfast?

Sadly, no.   I would have thought that The Birmingham Post and Coventry Evening Telegraph would have something on this.  Now that this has been highlighted I will see what I can find.    The sequence of events that led to the 1000HP Sunbeam being at Beaulieu is a fairly complicated one and there was even a danger at one time that this car, along with the other cars in the former Rootes Collection, could have ended up overseas.

Edited by Pullman99, 10 July 2020 - 14:41.

[Pullman99]

Rosco McGlashan's Aussie Invader III is currently up for sale as part of an auction of the now closed Gosford Classic Car Museum in New South Wales.   The museum had been set up by classic car dealer Tony Denny and the on-line auction is due to close on 30th March with the current bidding around the $30,000 AUS mark.   All of the museum's collection is included in the sale.

 

More details from Hemmings Motor News today:

 

https://www.hemmings...ses/?refer=news

[grocons]

Wow! I started this thread over 15 years ago, under a different username back then. I can't believe people are still adding to this all this time later, thanks everybody.

[Tim Murray]

Long time no see, Neil - welcome back.

[Lee Nicolle]

Rosco McGlashan's Aussie Invader III is currently up for sale as part of an auction of the now closed Gosford Classic Car Museum in New South Wales.   The museum had been set up by classic car dealer Tony Denny and the on-line auction is due to close on 30th March with the current bidding around the $30,000 AUS mark.   All of the museum's collection is included in the sale.

 

More details from Hemmings Motor News today:

 

https://www.hemmings...ses/?refer=news

The ATO seems to be an entity with no idea and self importance who at least hamstrung business and simply kill it often. And it seems answer to noone.

[Pullman99]

There was a piece in Hemmings Motor News a couple of days ago about the decision by the Petersen Automotive Museum to secure a long term loan to another museum of Art Arfons' Green Monster as rebuilt following its Bonneville accident in 1966.    Subsequently, the car was sold by Arfons to Slick Gardner for a further, unsuccessful, campaign and was then purchased by an owning syndicate that, after protracted attempts to sell the car again, eventually donated Green Monster to The Petersen about four years ago after it had been on loan for several years.    The rebuilt car is not the former LSR holder that Arfons had his famous accident in during 1966 and that had set records on three occasions between 1964 and 1965 - in what was likened to a duel with Craig Breedlove - but  does apparently incorporate at least some of the original car and was restored in a similar livery.    In March 1970 (not 1968 as stated in Hemmings' article) it was demonstrated at a press event at Hurn (Bournemouth Airport).   Suggestions that a museum in Akron, Ohio, would seem the obvious choice of venue.

 

Full story below:

 

https://www.hemmings...aign=2020-07-07

Edited by Pullman99, 10 July 2020 - 14:47.

[Pullman99]

On another thread - Indy Museum attic clean-out - there is discussion about the cars that are being sold off by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum in an auction partnership with RM Sotheby's as part of their multi-million dollar refurbishment.   This includes Craig Breedlove's Spirit of America Sonic 1

 

I think that Spirit of America Sonic 1 has been at the IMS for over 20 years (?) but I believe that Goodyear had owned it, or had some control over it, following its 1965 record but had been exhibited in the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum in Cleveland, Ohio.    That museum sold some of its cars in 1990 (by Sotheby's) and in 2009 (by RM) to (according to Wilipedia) pay off its debts.   I presume that this included Spirit of America Sonic 1 and that it was then purchased by the IMS Museum.    Hopefully the outcome will be that this car will remain in the USA although it would be great if it could visit the UK at some time.   

 

The excellent book on the car that took Craig Breedlove's record in 1970  - The Blue Flame -  Speedquest by Richard Kellerand David Tremayne describes the sale of that car to a Belgian collector by the Institute of Gas Technology and with subsequent sales resulting in the car being displayed in the ownership of the Auto und Technik Museum in Sinsheim.   That was the last car to achieve an outright land speed record at Bonneville; Spirit of America Sonic 1 is, therefore, currently the last such vehicle still on American soil.    It would be nice to think that a major US institution such as the Smithsonian or the Petersen could step in and ensure that Sonic 1's future can be secured.

 

The official RM Sotheby's website is yet to confirm the auction date in the Fall of 2024 and currently makes no mention of this car preferring to highlight the major stars of a Mercedes-Benz W196 (incorrectly dated 1956!) and the Jochen Rindt / Masten Gregory Le Mans winning NART entered Ferrari 250 LM.   Link below:

 

https://rmsothebys.c...ndyAnnouncement

 

I'll try and update this story as it progresses

[Henri Greuter]

On another thread - Indy Museum attic clean-out - there is discussion about the cars that are being sold off by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum in an auction partnership with RM Sotheby's as part of their multi-million dollar refurbishment.   This includes Craig Breedlove's Spirit of America Sonic 1

 

I think that Spirit of America Sonic 1 has been at the IMS for over 20 years (?) but I believe that Goodyear had owned it, or had some control over it, following its 1965 record but had been exhibited in the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum in Cleveland, Ohio.    That museum sold some of its cars in 1990 (by Sotheby's) and in 2009 (by RM) to (according to Wilipedia) pay off its debts.   I presume that this included Spirit of America Sonic 1 and that it was then purchased by the IMS Museum.    Hopefully the outcome will be that this car will remain in the USA although it would be great if it could visit the UK at some time.   

 

SNIP

 

 

 

Make that way more than 20 year within IMSM collection.

 

 

Within my collection of Novi memorabilia I have an old post card witha a scene taken inside the museum so it must be taken after 1976 when the current museum building was opened. In the picture you can see the tail fin of "The Spirit of America".

The FWD Novi is in the picture too (why should I otherwise have bought that card????)  but it is not in the nowadays familiar cream 1948 #54 trim. Instead it was still in the colors how it was donated to the museum in the very early 60's, silver to aluminum with red trim. A color it never used in its active career.

 

However, the Novi has supposedly been on display in a German car exposition in the early 80's, I have the catalogue of that expo (copyright date 1982) and it shows the Novi still in that alumnum-silver&red trim. I have no approval if the car ever was in Germany. By the way, when I checked the catalogue for the year of publication I then found out much to my surprise that the "Spirit of America" was also appearing in that catalogue as being on display!

 

So the earliest year of which I am aware of the "Spirit" being within the posession of IMS Museum is 1982. But since I expect that postcard being older than 1982 we can add a few more years to that time of ownership with the earliest possible confirmed year being 1976

Edited by Henri Greuter, 22 August 2024 - 17:02.

[Pullman99]

Here is the latest information on the forthcoming sale of the IMS Museum vehicles.   These will now be individual sales for the Mercedes-Benz W196 (in January in Stuttgart), the Ferrari 250LM (in February in Paris to coincide with Retromobile), and the remainder in late February in Miami.

 

The remainder, including Spirit of America Sonic 1 estimated at USD $500,000 to $1,000.000, are to be sold together in Miami from the 27th to 29th February prior to the main ModaMiami event at the Biltmore Hotel on 1st and 2nd March.

 

https://rmsothebys.c...merica-sonic-i/

 

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/mi25/

 

As a land speed record follower and with a keen interest in this car, I hope that Spirit of America Sonic 1 can remain in the USA although it would be nice to think it could come to the UK at some stage.  

 

The RM Sotheby's text confirms that the car was acquired by the IMS Museum in 1975.   

 

As an aside, does anyone know where the first Spirit of America is now?   As reported previously in Hemmings Motor News, Breedlove loaned the original Spirit of America to the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago where it was on display from 1965 to 2015, when the museum returned the LSR car to Breedlove, but not before inflicting significant damage to the car. Breedlove said he intended to repair the LSR car and there was a brief legal dispute - subsequently settled - where Breedlove was seeking compensation from the Chicago museum.

[Pullman99]

MSN published this news item today on the forthcoming sale of Spirit of America Sonic 1

 

https://www.msn.com/...4fdbc18da&ei=17

 

The auction is scheduled for 27th to 29th February in Miami.    I have contacted the Petersen Museum in Los Angeles, the National Automobile Museum in Reno, and the Museum of American Speed in Lincoln, Nebraska to ask whether or not they are likely to pursue the acquisition of Sonic 1.    This was shortly prior to Christmas and I know that the Petersen is currently doing some work to help families affected by the Los Angeles wildfires. I will follow this up this coming week.   The other museum that could potentially house Sonic 1 is the NASCAR orientated Motorsports Hall of Fame of America in Daytona Beach where the 1935 Blue Bird is located.   

 

I am hoping to visit Lincoln later in the year and I know that they already have the rebuilt / ex- Slick Gardner / Hurn demonstrated Green Monster of Art Arfons.  Not sure if the museum owns this now as it was in The Store at the Petersen and was put up for sale several times over that past few years.    In reference to my earlier query, the Museum of American Speed has also acquired Craig Breeddlove's original Spirit of America - presumably from Breedlove's estate - but, again, whether on loan or otherwise I do not know.   The museum has referred recently - in December - to its restoration by the museum's staff and volunteers recently as part of a (US) national giving campaign but there is no inclusion in their website so that is something I will clarify with them shortly.     Given that background, it would seem to be an appropriate venue for Sonic 1 as well but the estimated sale price of around $1M is quite an obstacle for any museum.

 

It would be nice to think that whomever is likely to pursue this purchase would be willing to ensure that this important LSR vehicle is available to the public in a museum context and that it could also make occasional appearances outside the USA.   Goodwood or Rétromobile perhaps?

Edited by Pullman99, 14 January 2025 - 15:38.

[Pullman99]

RM Sotheby's has posted a video on You Tube detailing the two European sales (Mercedes-Benz W196 in Stuttgart and the NART Ferrari 250LM at The Louvre) and the remaining cars, including Spirit of America Sonic 1, in Miami.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=NAT_nnjJ6mk

[Pullman99]

Link to the Museum of American Speed in Lincoln, Nebraska relating to Craig Breedlove's Spirit of America.    This confirms the car's donation to the museum although the link to the car in their website isn't very straightforward.

 

No mention, however, of its long-term display in Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry that ended in some controversy!

 

https://www.museumof...of-america.html

 

 

That's Art Arfons's Green Monster behind.

 

Edited by Pullman99, 19 January 2025 - 14:48.