110 replies to this topic

[LittleChris]

Well said Tony

[ReWind]

I'm not a historian (an historian?), I'm a software developer, but it was blatantly obvious to me that Don's initial post included himself in the august company of history cretins.

I do not doubt for a moment that ReWind was genuine in his taking offence. But he was wrong to do so. A blind man on a galloping horse can see that, surely?

Indeed I understood that it were the FIA archivists Hubert referred to as history cretins. Surely a fault of mine but also of Hubert for not wording it clearly.

[Michael Ferner]

Hubert? I'm curious...

[ReWind]

Hubert Donald Capps.

Being the polite one I use his first given name.

[Michael Ferner]

Gosh, I just never... I bet no one except his mother used that name, like ever, and then probably only when she was angry!   

 

 

HUBERT! Who painted that race car on the fridge???

[ensign14]

 

HUBERT! Who painted that race car on the fridge???

 

 

[DCapps]

Once again, Moving Right Along...

 

Using the 1968 edition of the Yellow Book as a baseline, one can pretty much fellow the bouncing ball through to the 1980 edition and with a careful reading get a sensing that something is amiss, even in the usual sterile, stilted language found in the text.

At least there are even bulletins that convey some sense of the tensions within the organization and in its relationship with Someone Else.

 

The 1981 edition of the Yellow Book seems to be the sort of item that was hiding in plain sight and few paid much attention to, then as later.

As as been said, it is -- and was -- simply waiting patiently for you on the bookshelf.

While Autosport did manage to cover the handbags-at-dawn scuffle that was the FIASCO War, even if a bit over the top at times, at least it paid attention, unlike some others (...looking at you, M***r S***t...).

 

Perhaps, it might also be viewed as a clash between the proponents of Formula Albion and those tending to take things in another direction.

One might suggest that when the dust finally settled those betting on Formula Albion pocketed their winning thanks to the Perfidious Ecclestone and Company.

Betting against someone formerly in the Motor Trade and thinking that there are rules would seem to be a sure recipe for losing.

 

Often left unsaid, the FIASCO War was perhaps simply another round int the Island vs. Continent feuding dating back eons.

 

And, peaking of h*****y and h********s, there is A History of Organizational Change: The Case of Federation Internationale l'Automobile (FIA), 1946-2020 (Plagrave Macmillan, 2020), by Hans Erik Naess (professor, Sport Management, Department of Leadership and Organization, Kristiana College, Norway).

Actually, he is not a h********n, but a sports management type, who seem to pay more attention to motor sport than h********s, by the way.

 

Several other items tending to gather dust on the bookshelf thanks to their patience in waiting for someone to realize that they exist are:

 

David Hassan, editor, The History of Motor Sport: A Case Study Analysis, Aport in Global Society-Historical Perspectives (Routledge, 2012); this collection of articles originally appeared in an issue of the International Journal of the History of Sport (vol. 20, no. 2, Feb. 2011).

 

Damion Sturm, Stephen Wagt, and David L. Andrews, editors, The History and Politics of Motor Racing: Lives in the Fast Lane, Global Culture and Sport Series (Palgrave Macmillan, 2023). Authors of the articles range from the Geography Department at the University of Tennessee, Physical Education & Sport Science Department, Qatar University, the History Department Ave Maria University, Department of Kinesiology Towson University, the Annenberg School for Communications and Journalism at the University of of Southern California, Department of Communication Sciences Ghent University, and on and so and so forth from Massey Uniserity (Auckland) to Leeds Beckett University to the University of Lausanne and everywhere in-between. But, it also includes articles by Eberhard Reuss and Aldo Zana as well. 

 

Paul Baxa, Motorsport and Fascism: Living Dangerously, Global Culture and Sport Series (Palgrave Macmillan, 2022), professor of history at Ave Maria University.

 

Mark D. Howell and John D. Miller, editors, Motorsports and American Culture: From Demolition Derbies to NASCAR (Roman & Littlefield, 2014). Northwestern Michigan College and Longwood University, respectively.

 

Brian M. Ingrassia, Speed Capital: Indianapolis Auto Racing and the Making of Modern America, Sport and Society (University of Illinois Press, 2024), West Texas A 7 M University. Ingrassia also has a recent article in the Journal of Sport History (vol. 50, no. 1, Spring 2023), Annihilating Space: Motor Sport and the Commodification of Movement.

 

 

By the way, I have little doubt that many, if not most here, could and can pretty much hold their own and more in more than a few instances in the volumes above when it comes to discussing and analyzing motor sport's past. 

For the most part, not only would all benefit from such discussions, but it would almost surely lead to new thoughts and insights. 

Why? Because everyone involved has an interest and -- yes -- a passion for motor sport.

It might be expressed in slightly different ways, but it is definitlely there.

 

H*********s are not your enemy. 

If anything, those with an interest in motor sport and its history are in your corner.

With few exceptions, they tend to pay a price for their interest in motor sport and its history.

Yet, they often persist.

 

Any way, that's it from the Peanut Gallery.

 

HDC

 

The inevitable Postscript.

 

The AIACR/FIA archival issue scarcely a unique one.

 

The archives of NASCAR held in Daytona Beach certainly exist, but other than the various items that have popped up at the NASCAR Hall of Fame Museum in Charlotte, few seem to have had access.

 

The file cabinets with the AAA Contest Board material are still at the IMS Museum, with a few having some access to them of late (but not me...), but not aware of any program to separate the wheat from the chaff (original material from later Catlin, etc additions) and properly archive the holdings or what the status is of the digitization project that was being considered.

 

The USAC archives are pretty much in the same boat as above, with the involvement of INDYCAR or the Penske organization in both unclear.

Given INDYCAR's inability to do anything dealing with history is abysmal to worse does not inspire confidence.

 

The SCCA archives at the IMRRC are finally getting to the point where something can be done with them.

 

And, so it goes...

Edited by DCapps, 11 March 2024 - 14:36.

[Jim Thurman]

 

The inevitable Postscript.

 

The AIACR/FIA archival issue scarcely a unique one.

 

The archives of NASCAR held in Daytona Beach certainly exist, but other than the various items that have popped up at the NASCAR Hall of Fame Museum in Charlotte, few seem to have had access.

 

The file cabinets with the AAA Contest Board material are still at the IMS Museum, with a few having some access to them of late (but not me...), but not aware of any program to separate the wheat from the chaff (original material from later Catlin, etc additions) and properly archive the holdings or what the status is of the digitization project that was being considered.

 

The USAC archives are pretty much in the same boat as above, with the involvement of INDYCAR or the Penske organization in both unclear.

Given INDYCAR's inability to do anything dealing with history is abysmal to worse does not inspire confidence.

 

The SCCA archives at the IMRRC are finally getting to the point where something can be done with them.

 

And, so it goes...

Don, then there are all the other regional and local racing organizations around the U.S, along with the myriad of publications, again most being quite regional in focus. Fortunately, while not digitized, the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame and IMRRC have compiled these quite well. As far as official records from those many organizations and the local tracks themselves, I'm afraid those were almost entirely binned.

 

The best that can be hoped for is someone squirreling them away upon seeing they were in the trash, like happened when pop music historian Michael Ochs was informed that the videotapes of "Shindig" were in the dumpster, or when a janitor at a TV station in Sacramento rescued the station's video archives from the dumpster, took them home and kept them, until someone at the station was looking for video of local history.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 16 March 2024 - 22:37.

[a_tifoosi]

If and when the FIA finally open up their archives and release minutes of CSI meetings it might be possible to resolve the semantics of this - although as both French and English were FIA official languages even that may be down to the idiosyncracies of individual translators. Let alone retranslations! I suspect the use of 'voiturette' by Motor Sport may be down to either the direct or indirect influence of Kent Karslake and/or the fact that the various events run by (mainly) French clubs in 1946-47 for 2000cc unblown/1100cc blown cars were often referred to as 'voiturette races'.

 

I have just had a quick look at FIA's e-library beta version, and unfortunately there are no minutes from the CSI meetings held on 21 June 1946 and 17 October 1947. CSI-related archives jump from 1933 to 1948.

Edited by a_tifoosi, 22 April 2024 - 13:34.

[Doug Nye]

CSI-related archives jump from 1933 to 1948.

 

Hmmmm.

 

1933 to 1948?  How curious thatCSI/AIACR/FIA machinations during that period should 'officially' remain obscure....

 

Indeed, obscurity has for so many years provided a cloak of convenience for so many would-be, de facto or internationally recognised bodies of influence in all areas of life - why would motor sport governance and/or manipulation prove to be a self-declared exception?         

 

At least within an activity as relatively restricted (and globally unimportant) as motor sport, the social and public harm inflicted has always been quite limited.

 

But for the interested observer and researcher a bit of overdue come-uppance - even if decades too late - can still prove uplifting.   

  

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 22 April 2024 - 18:26.

[a_tifoosi]

Hmmmm.

1933 to 1948?  How curious thatCSI/AIACR/FIA machinations during that period should 'officially' remain obscure....

 

Probably my message was not very clear. For this period, 1933-1948, there's information uploaded at a FIA/AIACR level. But specifically for the Commission Sportive Internationale, there's nothing.

 

For instance, the FIA met in Paris for the 1947 autumn meeting on the occasion of the Salon de l'Auto. The e-library contains information (minutes) about the meetings held by the FIA Committee on 11 October and the General Assembly on 13 October. But there's no information about the CSI meeting from 17 October, where the new Formule Internationale numéro II was announced.