Someone suggested I ask this here ...
In 1967, when Jackie Stewart drove car No. 31, it was the first time in the history of the Italian GP at Monza that a car had an odd number. Even for years after 1967, odd numbers were never to be found.
WHY?
Is it an Italian superstition to have a car with an odd number? Or was it just to keep the cars well separated on the score sheets (manual scoring in those days) considering the tremendous speed at which they passed the scoring tower?
One person on the forum where this originally was posted points out that Ferrari chasses always were given even numbers until the modern system began. That seems to indicate some sort of Italian superstition ... ?
Even numbers at Monza
Started by
Keeper
, Jan 03 2004 14:49
8 replies to this topic
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#2
Vitesse2
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Posted 03 January 2004 - 15:06
Not just Monza, or even just Italy, Keeper - many European race organisers used only even numbers until the 70s, when the numbering systems started to be standardised - check out the entry lists for the pre-war Swiss GPs and Prix de Berne for example: in fact there was a third race on the programme, the Prix de Bremgarten, and there was no duplication of numbers across the three - all of them even!
Sometimes odd numbers were assigned to cars on practice days, in order to confound pirate programme sellers - the Belgians in particular did that and, IIRC, it was also done at at least one of the Morocco GPs in the 50s. Avoiding odd numbers did have the advantage of avoiding 13 (unlucky in most countries) and 17 (unlucky in Italy).
Sometimes odd numbers were assigned to cars on practice days, in order to confound pirate programme sellers - the Belgians in particular did that and, IIRC, it was also done at at least one of the Morocco GPs in the 50s. Avoiding odd numbers did have the advantage of avoiding 13 (unlucky in most countries) and 17 (unlucky in Italy).
#3
sat
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Posted 03 January 2004 - 15:10
One person on the forum where this originally was posted points out that Ferrari chasses always were given even numbers until the modern system began. That seems to indicate some sort of Italian superstition ... ?
It was even numbers for race cars and odd for production cars...
#4
gdecarli
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Posted 04 January 2004 - 00:04
Even if I'm not 100% sure, I don't think so.Originally posted by Keeper
One person on the forum where this originally was posted points out that Ferrari chasses always were given even numbers until the modern system began. That seems to indicate some sort of Italian superstition ... ?
I'm Italian and I have never heard about any general superstition regarding numbers but 13 and (more important) 17, so the reason for this fact should be different.
However, in 1920s Italy GP both even and odd numbers were usually used. I have some photos (but unfortunately I have no time to scan & post them), but a complete list can be found on Quentin Cloud's website.
Ciao,
Guido
#5
d.c.a. mulcahy
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Posted 04 January 2004 - 08:05
Keeper wrote:
In 1967, when Jackie Stewart drove car No. 31, it was the first time in the history of the Italian GP at Monza that a car had an odd number. Even for years after 1967, odd numbers were never to be found.
Most of the above is not correct.
Jackie Stewart did not drive car Number 31 in the 1967 Italian GP. He drove car Number 34. All of the cars in the 1967 Italian GP had even numbers. However in the 1968 Italian GP they used odd numbers for the first time.
By 1963 all of the World Championship GPs were using odd and even numbers except the Dutch, French and Italian GPs. which used even numbers only. The Dutch and French GPs started using odd and even in 1967 and the Italian GP started using both in 1968. So it is not true that odd numbers were not used in the Italian GP for years after 1967.
Standarization of numbers, including using the same number throughout the season, commenced with the 1973 Belgian GP (at least in terms of the World Championship).
In 1967, when Jackie Stewart drove car No. 31, it was the first time in the history of the Italian GP at Monza that a car had an odd number. Even for years after 1967, odd numbers were never to be found.
Most of the above is not correct.
Jackie Stewart did not drive car Number 31 in the 1967 Italian GP. He drove car Number 34. All of the cars in the 1967 Italian GP had even numbers. However in the 1968 Italian GP they used odd numbers for the first time.
By 1963 all of the World Championship GPs were using odd and even numbers except the Dutch, French and Italian GPs. which used even numbers only. The Dutch and French GPs started using odd and even in 1967 and the Italian GP started using both in 1968. So it is not true that odd numbers were not used in the Italian GP for years after 1967.
Standarization of numbers, including using the same number throughout the season, commenced with the 1973 Belgian GP (at least in terms of the World Championship).
#6
fines
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Posted 04 January 2004 - 11:40
WRONG!Originally posted by Keeper
In 1967, when Jackie Stewart drove car No. 31, it was the first time in the history of the Italian GP at Monza that a car had an odd number.
The very first winner of an Italian Gran Premio, Jules Goux in 1921 carried #11!
WRONG!Originally posted by Keeper
One person on the forum where this originally was posted points out that Ferrari chasses always were given even numbers until the modern system began. That seems to indicate some sort of Italian superstition ... ?
The very first Ferrari telaio carried serial number 01S!
#7
fines
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Posted 04 January 2004 - 11:43
General suppression of the use of numbers 13 and 17 in Italy did start only after the 1926 Targa Florio.
#8
gdecarli
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Posted 05 January 2004 - 01:59
No, as I have already said, in 1920s both even and odd numbers were used, not only at Brescia Montichiari, but also at Monza.
In 1923 Ugo Sivocci (Alfa Romeo) had #17 and he died during practice. After this accident, #17 was banned from Italian cars (from "Il Leggendario Gran Premio d'Italia" - a cura di Paolo Montagna - Copyright © 1989 A.C. Promotion - Milano - Page 28), but I don't think that this is the reason why Italians are so supersticious about #17. More probably, as Sivocci died with such an unluck number, they decide to give it up.
Pictures of 1923 GP (Including his #17 car) can be found on Ugo Sivocci website.
Ciao,
Guido
In 1923 Ugo Sivocci (Alfa Romeo) had #17 and he died during practice. After this accident, #17 was banned from Italian cars (from "Il Leggendario Gran Premio d'Italia" - a cura di Paolo Montagna - Copyright © 1989 A.C. Promotion - Milano - Page 28), but I don't think that this is the reason why Italians are so supersticious about #17. More probably, as Sivocci died with such an unluck number, they decide to give it up.
Pictures of 1923 GP (Including his #17 car) can be found on Ugo Sivocci website.
Ciao,
Guido
#9
Keeper
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Posted 05 January 2004 - 06:53
OK, so odd numbers were used before the formation of the world championship -- fair enough.
OK, so even-only numbers were used in other countries as well -- fair enough.
The question still remains, though: WHY? Nobody knows?
OK, so even-only numbers were used in other countries as well -- fair enough.
The question still remains, though: WHY? Nobody knows?
