133 replies to this topic

[karlth]

A highly interesting interview with Frank Williams in the Telegraph about Montoya. The quotes are posted and the full article can be read here.

Odd couple still driven to succeed

"We are all sad about the decision he made to go off to another team because it will make them stronger and us weaker," he said. "It does not matter that it is McLaren particularly. I would have felt the same had he gone to Ferrari. He will be missed."

Parsimony is an endearing part of the Williams legend. On this occasion Williams can console himself with the thought that, even had he matched the McLaren offer, a bonus-based scheme that will start by doubling Montoya's £4 million-a-year salary, he would not have effected a different outcome.

"He was annoyed at us at the time over the French GP affair and financially he got a better offer from Ron Dennis than we could afford. He was always miffed by the fact that historically Ralf has been paid more than him."

"There was never a chance we would let him go early. Juan's a winner. Why would we want to oblige Ron, to take David Coulthard? Out of the question. Ron asked if I would be interested in letting Juan go for a fee. Money was not the issue. Winning is."

"He is a great driver and he could yet win the world championship with us. You must remember that when he gets in a racing car Juan can't help himself. He is a natural killer in a car. There are also very few seasons that racing drivers can afford to throw away, especially when they are getting close to winning a world title. You can't waste a season through pique or bad temper."

"Where we might get aggravation is with his peripheral duties, sponsors and so on. And we will limit the amount of information we will give him regarding the 2005 car. He won't be privy to all of the discussions that go on."

[Ghostrider]

I doubt DC will be in line for a Williams seat in 2005.

[dan2k]

Frank Williams has loved Montoya from the moment he saw this animal racer.
Its nice to see he still holds him in high regards.

Montoya is a superstar, and and he also attracts big sponsers.
Him leaving will hurt big time.
Williams will never be the same. I see no driver that anywhere near Montoya's class to replace his seat.

I will never forgive Sam Michael for what he did.
I guess for him money wins over loyalty. He betrayed Montoya trust.
Juan cant race at Williams knowing this one guy is being paid by Ralf to destroy his chances.

[BuzzingHornet]

so Ralf WAS paid more than Monty... hmm, there's been a few people denying that that was the case but we have it from the horse's mouth now so to speak

[Enkei]

Originally posted by dan2k
Frank Williams has loved Montoya from the moment he saw this animal racer.
Its nice to see he still holds him in high regards.

Montoya is a superstar, and and he also attracts big sponsers.
Him leaving will hurt big time.
Williams will never be the same. I see no driver that anywhere near Montoya's class to replace his seat.

I will never forgive Sam Michael for what he did.
I guess for him money wins over loyalty. He betrayed Montoya trust.
Juan cant race at Williams knowing this one guy is being paid by Ralf to destroy his chances.

Dude, do you wear Montoya underwear too?

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Enkei
Dude, do you wear Montoya underwear too?

[Wuzak]

Originally posted by dan2k
I will never forgive Sam Michael for what he did.
I guess for him money wins over loyalty. He betrayed Montoya trust.
Juan cant race at Williams knowing this one guy is being paid by Ralf to destroy his chances.

You have got to be kidding!

Juan should have just accepted that Ralf out smarted him on this occasion.

I feel that throughout his career Juan will be outsmarted quite a few times.........

[K-One]

Dan2k must be Monty's dad.

[lukywill]

then it was all about money and bad temper in the hour.

changing for dc would be indeed fool. but what about the romours about webber (and villeneuve)?!

[Racer Joe]

Originally posted by Ghostrider
I doubt DC will be in line for a Williams seat in 2005.

I guess not eh...

No doubt the thought crossed his mind that what he said there would drive the wedge further between DC and McLaren and thus paying a little back to Ron for his early announcement of JPM.

Originally posted by dan2k
I will never forgive Sam Michael for what he did.
I guess for him money wins over loyalty. He betrayed Montoya trust.
Juan cant race at Williams knowing this one guy is being paid by Ralf to destroy his chances.

What exactly did Sam Michael do?

As if SFW and PH would allow that kind of crap to go on within their team, especially when SFW loves JPM according to you.

[troyf1]

Originally posted by Enkei


Dude, do you wear Montoya underwear too?

[Svenko Wankerov]

Originally posted by Enkei


Dude, do you wear Montoya underwear too?

[Thunder]

Ron offered that before Montoya massacred Williams' wc chances. What did Ron think after seeing Montoya throw away the wdc i wonder. Currently they say they didnt fix the 2005 drivers. What should that mean?

[Robbie]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Bira usually quickly correct those who claim that RS is paid more than JPM?

(Sorry, but I can’t resist a bit of silly season pettiness)

[philhitchings]

DC's worth not much given Dennis' and Williams' actions. Ron would pay for him to go away. Frank doesn't want a freebie..................

[nigel red5]

I`m not so much blown away by the paragraph involving the 2 driver`s salaries...... although £8m a year start-out at Mclaren - who would`nt go? It`s still gonna be a top car in 2005 and ready to challenge for the world championship.
It`s all a bit sad really, considering it was SFW who had the faith in Juan in the first place. One throw of the dummy, and a suitcase full of cash and he`s gone.... but like i said, who would`nt for £8m a season?

The one that`s surprised me slightly is the candid blown away of David Coulthard in the most public way possible by an ex team boss, who usually speaks quite well of his previous employees.

It was never realistic that David Coulthard was going to get the Wiliams gig in the first place, but that now concludes it once and for all, with no doubts.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by Robbie
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Bira usually quickly correct those who claim that RS is paid more than JPM?

(Sorry, but I can’t resist a bit of silly season pettiness)

No, Bira not Bira just refered to BussinesF1's information which were supposedly taken from Gerhard Berger ;)

[Tomecek]

I am not surprised by Montoya's decision. If he is such racer as Frank claims, I would never agreed similar attitude to that in France.

[Deeq]

Let me piss on the parade then, About the driver salaries FW said historicaly Not he is being paid less NOW or near future-----> People who claim They are paid equaly now are not wrong, atleast going by FW words. I understood tha way. Correct me If you can, Won't be hard

@Tomacek heh it seems your Hero could not do wrong.

Atlast this should give clues also, on what happened when DC was "Let Go" from Williams. Kind of JVi situation in BAR I guess.

[skinnylizard]

jees. blame sam michael, blame money ..i dont get it. you cant believe that JPM is unbeatable . thats crap. even ms has been outqualified and outraced by Rubens and Eddie on occasion so it would be completely erroenous to believe that Sam Michael or anyone betrayed Monty.
Its def fair to believe that JPM believes he is wort a certain amount and if his team-mate who he has beaten a few times is getting paid more its unfair. his desire to move to a team that really wants him, is giving him a better pay package AND a lot of attention is pretty much a unbeatable combination. pissed at Williams or not it would be hard not to take it up.
xxx
g

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by dan2k

I guess for him money wins over loyalty. He betrayed Montoya trust.

Actually, Montoya is the one who is abandoning the team that made his career, for more money.

[MortenF1]

Surprised to see SFW word himself like that concerning Ron/DC. As Ghostrider and Racer Joe says, -no DC at Williams in '05. Certainly not if he performs like last year.

[KinetiK]

Originally posted by race addicted
Surprised to see SFW word himself like that concerning Ron/DC. As Ghostrider and Racer Joe says, -no DC at Williams in '05. Certainly not if he performs like last year.

The way SFW tells it is that it wouldn't matter the year that DC referenced, Williams won't have him... ever. I think DC's out of F1 after 2004.

[Ross Stonefeld]

a Coulthard-Briscoe lineup at Toyota would be very wise imo

[MortenF1]

I assume you think his performances last year sucked Kinetik, and I partly agree . But I think you should wait and see if he can return to normal again this year. I of course, expect nothing less, and if he's not retained by McLaren, which he won't be, I hope to see him with Toyota.

[KinetiK]

Originally posted by race addicted
I assume you think his performances last year sucked Kinetik, and I partly agree . But I think you should wait and see if he can return to normal again this year. I of course, expect nothing less, and if he's not retained by McLaren, which he won't be, I hope to see him with Toyota.

His performances in the first 3 races were spectacular but DC's ship may have been well & truly sunk by Sir Frank's frank statements. Ross has a good point about Toyota & DC but after Sir Frank's comments I remain pessimistic about David's chances with any team in 2005 with the exception of testing for McLaren.

[HP]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



Actually, Montoya is the one who is abandoning the team that made his career, for more money.

Montoya tells a different story. http://www.atlasf1.c.../id/12282/.html

[karlth]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



Actually, Montoya is the one who is abandoning the team that made his career, for more money.

Montoya made a name for himself in F3000, not in F1. He has been under contract with Williams for 6 years now and has been forced to turn down an F1 drive offer from Stewart and probably Ferrari as well while waiting in the wings for a possible Williams drive. I doubt Williams would have been too loyal if Montoya had failed in CART.

Frank Williams isn't complaining about lack of loyalty probably because there isn't any.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by karlth


Montoya made a name for himself in F3000, not in F1. He has been under contract with Williams for 6 years now and has been forced to turn down an F1 drive offer from Stewart and probably Ferrari as well while waiting in the wings for a possible Williams drive. I doubt Williams would have been too loyal if Montoya had failed in CART.

Frank Williams isn't complaining about lack of loyalty probably because there isn't any.

Well it was a somewhat sarcastic comment directed at underoo wearing dan2k.


But actually Frank Williams has been helping Montoya out since his F3 days. Williams didnt come along and pick him up once everyone figured out how quick he was.

[karlth]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

But actually Frank Williams has been helping Montoya out since his F3 days.

Sure about that? Patrick Head talked about the first time he heard of Montoya:

"I think the first time I ever heard Juan Pablo's name was when Betise, my wife, was down doing a little bit of freelance promotional work for a Brazilian driver called Max Wilson. She was down at the formula 3000 race at Pau, in south-west France, during 1997 to do a bit of press work for him. I rang her up on the Friday and asked her how things were going.

She said: "Fine." Then I asked how Max was going. She said: "Fine, but there's a guy here you want to take some notice of. A chap called Montoya who's a second and a half faster than anybody else and he looks pretty good to me."

Edit: Just read your original post in the thread that contains the above quote:

"Strange. I thought it was pretty much historical fact that Juan had his first links to Williams in 96 with Williams via talent-spotter Jonathan who recommended him to dad. Rumour is they helped him out a bit with his season and even his first F3000 year."

I thought Jonathan only became involved after Montoya entered F3000. Montoya himself didn't mentioned anything about Williams when talking about him trying to secure a drive in the series.

[HP]

Originally posted by KinetiK


His performances in the first 3 races were spectacular but DC's ship may have been well & truly sunk by Sir Frank's frank statements. Ross has a good point about Toyota & DC but after Sir Frank's comments I remain pessimistic about David's chances with any team in 2005 with the exception of testing for McLaren.

I think any team that is serious in moving up front will consider DC being part of getting there. And I think Sir Frank's statement didn't sink the ship. More difficult is that DC in all likelyhood will loose his seat at McLaren. If he want's to go to another team, then he will not get all the info's, wont be allowed to test new things and that's going to hurt him probably more than anything in the remaining races at McLaren. And it remains to be seen how he handles the psychological aspect of knowing that his time in top cars come to an end. McLaren claims to keep their options open, but realisticly, I think that is more a tactic to keep DC hopeful and motivated. Maybe he rises up to the challenge, but who expects Kimi to be booted out? And I also don't think Kimi will move anywhere in 2005. The only situation I could see that if he claims an early WDC, before Silverstone.

IMO DC was hit worse than the Williams team by the early announcement of Montoya joining McLaren.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
a Coulthard-Briscoe lineup at Toyota would be very wise imo

In which aspect? Briscoe sucked in F3000. It is a big off-topic but anyway I hope Toyota is smarter that that.

[blip]

Originally posted by karlth
There are also very few seasons that racing drivers can afford to throw away, especially when they are getting close to winning a world title. You can't waste a season through pique or bad temper."

Is this just a way of saying "JPM, its in your best interest to try and win this year" or is it also a reference to certain incidents last year (the radio outburst in France, the nerfing of Rubens at Indy)?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by karlth


Sure about that? Patrick Head talked about the first time he heard of Montoya:

Who said anything about Head? Williams(Jonathan) spotted him in F3 when he was doing Fortec/Mitsubishi. Williams, and I recall Berger was involved somewhere because of Helmut Marko, helped setup the 97 season with RSM Marko for F3000. Ive seen this confirmed on this BB, and I want to even say it was by you transcribing from a book or article by Montoya Snr I think

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Ghostrider


In which aspect? Briscoe sucked in F3000. It is a big off-topic but anyway I hope Toyota is smarter that that.

Its 2-1 at the moment. He was a standout in Renaults and kickass in F3. You have to look at the overall career. Not just one good or one bad year. With the F1 testing, and simply the amount of time and money Toyota are putting into him, its his ride to lose.

[karlth]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



Who said anything about Head? Williams(Jonathan) spotted him in F3 when he was doing Fortec/Mitsubishi. Williams, and I recall Berger was involved somewhere because of Helmut Marko, helped setup the 97 season with RSM Marko for F3000. Ive seen this confirmed on this BB, and I want to even say it was by you transcribing from a book or article by Montoya Snr I think

There was I thread about Montoya's early racing career and Marko's involvement but nothing about Williams being anywere near them. Just a few quotes about Jackie Stewart saying in 1994 to Montoya's father that Juan wasn't good enough to drive in his team.

[Sir Frank]

Isnt part of Ralfs salary paid by BMW?

[karlth]

Originally posted by Sir Frank
Isnt part of Ralfs salary paid by BMW?

I don't think that has ever been confirmed but it seems likely.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by karlth


There was I thread about Montoya's early racing career and Marko's involvement but nothing about Williams being anywere near them. Just a few quotes about Jackie Stewart saying in 1994 to Montoya's father that Juan wasn't good enough to drive in his team.

I thought he did though? Wasnt 95 Vauxhalls/Opel with PSR, but it was 96 when PSR was filled in F3? Thats why he went to Fortec.

[karlth]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


I thought he did though?

Yes, later.

[lower case writer]

Originally posted by karlth


There was I thread about Montoya's early racing career and Marko's involvement but nothing about Williams being anywere near them. Just a few quotes about Jackie Stewart saying in 1994 to Montoya's father that Juan wasn't good enough to drive in his team.

a bit off the topic, but wasn't this just before stewart began talking of how he was thinking of having the late greg moore drive for him, or was that a few years later. :

[F1Johnny]

FW knows what he is doing. He knows JPM and RS would be stronger than DC and RS and would also pull more viewers for the American public to satisfy the American sponsors, Bud and HP specifically.

But more importantly to FW he wants to win the WDC and he knows that JPM will go head to head with MS, he may go off the road doing it, but he will try. DC would take too long to come up to speed.

IMO DC still has a place in F1 past 2004 and don't write him off the Williams 2005 list just yet. If they want an experienced driver who will fight with MS and anyone for that matter to partner/groom a young, very young driver, of the current drivers, DC is the man.

[baddog]

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet
so Ralf WAS paid more than Monty... hmm, there's been a few people denying that that was the case but we have it from the horse's mouth now so to speak

none ever denied he WAS being paid more...

Shaun

[msarmiento]

Originally posted by baddog


none ever denied he WAS being paid more...

Shaun

No? I thought I read this on 27-Jul-03 02:35

Original posted by bira


That is simply and absolutely not true. Montoya and Ralf Schumacher are earning exactly the same right now.

[baddog]

Originally posted by msarmiento





No? I thought I read this on 27-Jul-03 02:35

the words 'was being paid more' and the words 'historically paid more' are in the past tense. the words 'Montoya and Ralf Schumacher are earning exactly the same right now.' are in the present tense, and at a time that equtes roughly with the time that frank says montoya was angry about being 'historically' paid less..

Shaun

[msarmiento]

Originally posted by baddog


the words 'was being paid more' and the words 'historically paid more' are in the past tense. the words 'Montoya and Ralf Schumacher are earning exactly the same right now.' are in the present tense, and at a time that equtes roughly with the time that frank says montoya was angry about being 'historically' paid less..

Shaun

c'mon baddog you know better than that...., you are a very smart guy....

[karlth]

From AtlasF1's newsroom

"I've never been happy that he is earning more than me but that's not the reason I'm leaving. "
Juan Montoya today.

Bira's was though quoting Montoya and Patrick Head, if I remember correctly so the source of the "misunderstanding" is from within Williams.

[karlth]

From AtlasF1's newsroom

"I've never been happy that he is earning more than me but that's not the reason I'm leaving. "
Juan Montoya today.

Bira was though quoting Montoya and Patrick Head, if I remember correctly, so the source of the "misunderstanding" is from within Williams.

[Teez]

Originally posted by karlth

"I've never been happy that he is earning more than me but that's not the reason I'm leaving. "
Juan Montoya today.

How does he know what Ralf is paid? How many people here know exactly what their co-workers are making, or any special financial arrangements they may have with the company?

[merlyn6]

Originally posted by Teez

How does he know what Ralf is paid?

Perhaps Ralf told him, I would have in the same circumstances. Just to piss him off.