17 replies to this topic

[antonvrs]

I'm looking for information regarding the cars built by Mickey Thompson for Indianapolis in 1962.
I know that John Crosthwaite started drawing the chassis in late December of 1961 and that there were 5 cars at Indy in time for qualifying(barely). I was involved in restoring one of these cars in the late '80s but the project stopped after a short time and the car has been in storage since about 1989.
Does anyone here know the history of the other 4 cars that were built for the 1962 Indy race?
Anton

[Rainer Nyberg]

The 1963 cars was powered by 255 cui Chevrolet V8's.

I am reading period reports in a Swedish magazine, which suggests it was an all-alloy DOHC unit, but pictures are not convincing, they seem to suggest a OHV unit.

The accompanying "fiche technique" states, 4178 cc, 95 x 74 mm bore x stroke, 350 bhp @ 8000 rpm, Hilborn fuel injection, Schiefer ignition and the unit was running on a Methanol/benzol/gasoline mixture.

[Ray Bell]

I think you'll find that contemporary Hot Rod Magazine issues covered the Mickey Thompson cars very well...

[RA Historian]

Too much stuff to go into here. There have been stories written about the Thompson cars over the years, and perhaps some fellow TNFers will supply the info about them.

But briefly, the 1962 cars were powered by the small block aluminum Buick V-8. Only one made the Indy 500, driven by Dan Gurney. One of the others was owned by Jim Kimberly, and was driven by a little known journeyman named Porky Rachwitz. Finished a way-back 12th at Milwaukee in June, 1962.

The 1963 cars were the first "roller skate" cars. They were powered by pushrod Chevy V-8s. The non-turbo limit at this time was 4.2 liters, which corresponds to Ranier's info. But they were pushrod.

The disastrous 1964 cars were powered by DOHC Ford Indy V-8s. They are discussed in detail on the thread about that terrible race.

In all, over several years, the sum total of actual race starts by all the various Thompson cars, was just seven.

[T54]

One of the others was owned by Jim Kimberly, and was driven by a little known journeyman named Porky Rachwitz. Finished a way-back 12th at Milwaukee in June, 1962.

Make that TWO cars were owned by Kimberly. Months before his death, Jim sent me the pictures of his two cars taken on his estate in Chicago. I still have them of course.

Porky was quite good on dirt but had little Indy experience. He came back in 1963 and had a turn in the Cooper-Aston-Martin also driven by Ralph Liguori and eventually qualified by Pedro Rodriguez, only to be bumped on the second weekend.

[Gerr]

Anton, everything I've read has MT building only three cars for 1962, entered as number 33 for Kimberly, number 35 Harvey Aluminum and 34 Mickey Thompson Ent.

In 1963, Kimberly had two cars ( as T54 mentioned) number 64 (the 1962 car) and a new copy, number 63 built by Don Borth.

Some info and pics at this site:
http://www.thompson-...s.com/indy.html

PM me if you'd like the Hot Rod article that Ray mentioned.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Gerr, thanks for confirmation of the OHV layout.

The Thompson website mentions that the "fifth" car had a titanium tube frame. It would have been called the Harvey Titanium Special.

So if three '62 cars were built, then one of the "roller-skate" '63 cars, had the titanium frame?

Or was there a third '63 car, with the titanium frame?

Two '63 cars were reworked for '64, with new 'streamliner' body and 15" wheels.
However a picture from the Thompson "bone yard", at the Thompson site, shows a car with the '63 'roller skate' body...maybe the third '63 car?

[antonvrs]

I'm delighted to see some interest in this thread........ nearly three years after first posting it.
First, I believe that there were in fact 5 cars at the Speedway in '62 although only 3 were actually ready to run. It's a minor miracle that any were able to attempt qualifying given the 5 month interval between John Crossthwaite's hiring and the opening of qualifying.
I've gathered quite a bit of literature on these cars including the Hot Rod articles and several others. I've also seen a number of the specially designed and built bits including the chassis, suspension, wheels, transaxle, dry sump system and special GM "experimental" cylinder blocks and heads with both Buick and Olds cylinder head bolt patterns.
I also visited Thompson's house some months after he was murdered and saw the amazing collection of Mickey's Bonneville, drag racing, off road and Indianapolis racing cars as well as hundreds, if not thousands, of parts, patterns, forgings for all manner of racing cars.
Stacks of magnesium wheels, barrels of shock absorbers, piles of titanium connecting rod blanks, literally thousands of items and this after his employees had been selling off bits at swap meets for a considerable period of time. I did take some pictures which I could scan if anyone's interested.
What I'd like to know is, what happened to the cars? There was one car painted to resemble the Harvey Titanium car that Gurney drove and one of the '63 cars(15" wheels and Chevy power) as well as several later cars- all on a shelf in Mickey's garage. The "Gurney" car, I believe was one of the Kimberley cars in '63 form.
The car that I was involved with was run later(mid '60s?) by Alderman Ford with 4cam Ford power, I believe.
If anyone(Buford?) knows anything else about the fate of these cars I'd be interested to hear about it. Does any one know anything about Alderman Ford as a sponsor or owner?
I hope it's not another 3 years before the next post!
Anton

[Gerr]

Jerry Alderman Ford Sales Inc. was the entrant for Al Miller's, number 74, "Jerry Alderman Ford-Lotus" in 1965.
Alderman had also entered the number 75 "Jerry Alderman Ford Special" that year. I don't know what chassis it had and I don't have a photo, but the entry list has it as rear-engined with a Ford DOHC 255. Jack Fox's "Color In The 500" note in the yearbook has the car as primarily orange with cream and black trim

[ensign14]

In 1966 Alderman entered a Lotus numbered 75 for Al Miller that made the Indy field. Caught up in the big shunt.

[T54]

First, I believe that there were in fact 5 cars at the Speedway in '62 although only 3 were actually ready to run. It's a minor miracle that any were able to attempt qualifying given the 5 month interval between John Crossthwaite's hiring and the opening of qualifying.

This is correct. And Kimberly had two of them, not in 1963 but in 1962.
One simply has to look at the 1962 Indy Year Book (Clymer) to figure this one out.

If I recall correctly, the Alderman Lotus driven by the (very talented) Al Miller was made from the crashed and subsequently repaired T29 Gurney "long" tub and the bits of the short car he raced in '63.
Or something of the kind.
Regards,

T54

[Gerr]

T54, you must have a different 1962 Indy Year Book (Clymer) than I do. Mine has only three Thompson-built cars in the entry list.

Also on page 82, there is this item:

"May 9.... Last of the three Mickey Thompson Enterprises Buicks arrived at the Speedway, one is being practiced by Chuck Daigh, and one by Jack Fairman. With the arrival of the last Thompson car, all of the seventy-two entries are present and accounted for."

Where can I find these other two cars in the yearbook ?

[A E Anderson]

Originally posted by Gerr
Jerry Alderman Ford Sales Inc. was the entrant for Al Miller's, number 74, "Jerry Alderman Ford-Lotus" in 1965.
Alderman had also entered the number 75 "Jerry Alderman Ford Special" that year. I don't know what chassis it had and I don't have a photo, but the entry list has it as rear-engined with a Ford DOHC 255. Jack Fox's "Color In The 500" note in the yearbook has the car as primarily orange with cream and black trim

Jerry Alderman Ford was an Indianapolis Ford dealership, on Keystone Avenue. "Jerry" Alderman's name was actually Geraldine--she was the first female new-car dealer in Indiana, if not the entire US--her Ford store was a real hangout back in the days of "Total Performance" from Ford.

Art Anderson

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by A E Anderson


Jerry Alderman Ford was an Indianapolis Ford dealership, on Keystone Avenue. "Jerry" Alderman's name was actually Geraldine--she was the first female new-car dealer in Indiana, if not the entire US--her Ford store was a real hangout back in the days of "Total Performance" from Ford.

Art Anderson

Now THAT I did not know!

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Gerr, thanks for confirmation of the OHV layout.

This is a little OT but If anyone is interested, I have been given the impression by those involved that there was more Buick factory participation in M/T's 1962 Indy program than was suggested in the media at the time.

Odd peripheral detail: I do know for sure that after the race one of the engines ended up in the possession of a Buick engineer pretty far up the ladder, who installed it in a pleasure boat, an inboard runabout in the 20' range. The cross-ram IR intake manifold was modified from Hilborns to Webers, and flame arrestors etc. were fitted. The rest of the boat was rather unusual too, as it used a number of Buick passenger car trim items around the cabin etc. Sort of a Buick watercraft.

I was surprised to see this boat pop up on eBay a few years ago after I had long since forgotten about it, but unfortunately I didn't follow up. At the moment I can't even remember the Buick engineer's name... pathetic, isn't it. I could probably reconignize it if I heard or saw it.

For 1963 Mickey Thompson got hold of some factory SB Chevy blocks cast in aluminum for Indy, as did Jim Hall for the Chaparrals. The lineage of these castings is explained in Paul Van Valkenburgh's book, Chevrolet-Racing?

A photo of the boat engine from the eBay ad:

[McGuire]

Originally posted by antonvrs
Stacks of magnesium wheels, barrels of shock absorbers, piles of titanium connecting rod blanks, literally thousands of items and this after his employees had been selling off bits at swap meets for a considerable period of time. I did take some pictures which I could scan if anyone's interested.

I'm sure you are very busy but when you get time, I definitely would be!

[Gerr]

Ran across an interesting bit while looking for something else....
C/D, June 1965, had a list titled "Indianapolis 500 Entries as of Press Time".
Jerry Alderman had entered three cars. A Lotus-Ford and two rear-engined Thompsons with Buick powerplants.

[dominicconti]

i am new here, but i was reading this thread, i have the documentation and the hilborn fuel injection and matching pump for a "special casting" sold to thompson enterprises in may of 1962, it has curved runners and is for a 255 Buick, if anyone is interested in seeing i will post pictures and a scan of the sales ticket from may 15 1962. and shipped air freight......