61 replies to this topic

[bigears]

I know that they are a regular feature for many years in motorsport but I never paid any attention on when the chequered flag first appeared and the champagne spraying show on the podium.

I remembered that I saw in a book that both of them might have been introduced by the Americans during the first half of the last century.

Does anyone know about it?

[Dracula]

Autosport magazine wrote that the chequered flag was used for bicycle racing in the 19th century, and in motorsport it first apeared in the 1904 Vanderbilt Cup in the USA.

[D-Type]

Champagne spraying is usually credited to Dan Gurney at Le Mans 1967

[Teapot]

A little O.T. but...I remember two pictures by Schlegelmilch showing Alan Jones spraying orange juice instead of champaign in a gesture of respect towards Williams' Arabian sponsors...

[Dracula]

Originally posted by D-Type
Champagne spraying is usually credited to Dan Gurney at Le Mans 1967

I think it was Jo Siffert there. He brandished the bottle of Mo¸t & Chandon champagne and it tipped out, because it was very hot at that day at Le Mans. The tradition was born!

[bigears]

Prior to your post, Teapot.

I am interested to see what will the drivers be spraying at Bahrain for the forthcoming season. Could it be orange juice again?

[Arjan de Roos]

The fact that Williams drivers could not spray Champagne was indeed contractually stipulated by their sponsors at the time.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
The fact that Williams drivers could not spray Champagne was indeed contractually stipulated by their sponsors at the time.

Being a number of Saudi Arabian companies, one of which was the construction company owned by Osama Bin Ladin's father. Means nothing in the world of sport or politics.

I think that it was Dan spraying the Champagne, how many of the drivers on the podiums of the world understand or know this now?? I see it as an empty act now, which is being performed at the request of sponsors and nothing else. Should the Lotto come my way I will be running all kinds of racing series, eventually Le Mans and other great races.

You will never see KWSN - DSM spray the Champagne.

[Vitesse2]

Welcome to TNF, bigears. We've discussed these before and it's always worth checking the Search facility, which can often answer questions like these: here's a thread on Squirting, which will confirm some of what's been said above, but also introduces a new twist ....

[bigears]

Thank you Vitesse2.

Also thank you for pointing out for me to use the search facility before posting questions.

[Bob Holcombe]

Not exactly spraying . . . . but close! After being narrowly defeat by David Bruce-Brown in the 1910 Savannah Grand Prize, Frenchman Victor Hemery poured a bottle of champagne over the victor's head. See illustration of this in Peter Helck's book "Great Auto Races," pg. 81.

[uechtel]

I always wondered about this almost stereotypic behaviour.

But then I remember (very distantly) to have heard a comment (probably Christian Danner?), who said, that he´d rather take the bottle with him to enjoy it at home, but once he was fined for NOT spraying the champagne on the rostrum, as the rule book explicitly requires this in order to give Moet & Chandon some TV time.

Can anybody confirm?

[Aanderson]

Originally posted by Bob Holcombe
Not exactly spraying . . . . but close! After being narrowly defeat by David Bruce-Brown in the 1910 Savannah Grand Prize, Frenchman Victor Hemery poured a bottle of champagne over the victor's head. See illustration of this in Peter Helck's book "Great Auto Races," pg. 81.

And,

Then there is the often-quoted "legendary" victory at Indianapolis by Jules Goux, wherein he is reputed to have downed FIVE (!) bottles of Champagne during his run! His remark, in Victory Lane?
"Without the good wine, I would not have won the race!"

Nothing like consuming the victory "bubbly" along the way, if indeed the regularly reported story was indeed true!

Art Anderson

[bigears]

Originally posted by uechtel
I always wondered about this almost stereotypic behaviour.

But then I remember (very distantly) to have heard a comment (probably Christian Danner?), who said, that he´d rather take the bottle with him to enjoy it at home, but once he was fined for NOT spraying the champagne on the rostrum, as the rule book explicitly requires this in order to give Moet & Chandon some TV time.

Can anybody confirm?

What I read somewhere, it was Stefan Johansson during his early stages of his F1 career or somewhere.

[Ray Bell]

Speedy neglects... as have some others... the second part of the question.

The chequered flag has been the subject of an even longer thread, if I'm not mistaken...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well its pretty silly from a practical standpoint of wasting good product, and im sure the team would like to have a taste. But fundamentally it just looks stupid and unoriginal now. I dont even think people (F1 or other sports) even know why they do it.

[Ross Stonefeld]

That said, if I was ever on the podium at Monaco in any class, id spray the royals. Yes it'd kill my career, but really how many times was I going to race at Monaco anyways

[dolomite]

Strange but true......
This text is in the F3000 Sporting Regulations, but for some reason does not appear in the equivalent F1 regs:

(Appendix 2)

5.3 Champagne

The person in charge of the podium must ensure that the personalities move aside after presenting the trophies, in order to enable the drivers to celebrate their victory with the traditional champagne spraying.

[Ray Bell]

Ah... so it's just a way to get the poor dignitaries off the podium quickly... so they don't overshadow the ones who live there?

[DOHC]

Originally posted by uechtel
the rule book explicitly requires this in order to give Moet & Chandon some TV time.

In F1, Moet is history. Nowadays it's Mumm Cordon Rouge. The winner's bottle has -- at least sometimes -- a "1" surrounded by a laurel wreath above the label. It seems that they're specials for the ceremony. Could even be declassified wine that didn't make it for normal sale...

Why they have to play that same piece from Bizet's Carmen each time during the champagne spraying escapes me. When did that become a tradition? Is there anything in the rules about the choice of music too, or do they just take the CD along? It is a tad banal, isn't it?

[Ray Bell]

Tradition?

'Commercial interlude' would be more like it... though how you can have an isolated 'commercial interlude' in something so totally drenched in commercialism as F1 I cannot comprehend...

[Ross Stonefeld]

You guys complain too much. F1 is one of the *less* commercial forms of racing. It comes no where near NASCAR, or even something like V8supercars for logo collage. And football is only one step away from having sponsor logos sprayed on the grass.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Aanderson


And,

Then there is the often-quoted "legendary" victory at Indianapolis by Jules Goux, wherein he is reputed to have downed FIVE (!) bottles of Champagne during his run! His remark, in Victory Lane?
"Without the good wine, I would not have won the race!"

Nothing like consuming the victory "bubbly" along the way, if indeed the regularly reported story was indeed true!

Art Anderson

Art,

I believe Jules Goux drank one or two glasses of chilled wine as refreshment. Five bottles seems a lot to me.
Anyway wine is better than many energy drinks of today.

[uechtel]

I am not complaining about this as usually after watching a Formula 1 race I turn my TV for the advertisement break before this ceremony now (actually the last three seasons have been the first since more than a decade, in which I had not watched every Formula 1 race). Also never found any interest in Nascar nor V8superstar. That´s the advantage of free market economics: You are not forced to consume...

Concerning national anthems: Is it true, that there had been some kind of "time limit" a few years ago. I watched old videos from the late eighties, when the first Italian anthem was turned off before it was finished. At least one thing, that has improved since

[dolomite]

Originally posted by DOHC

Why they have to play that same piece from Bizet's Carmen each time during the champagne spraying escapes me. When did that become a tradition? Is there anything in the rules about the choice of music too, or do they just take the CD along? It is a tad banal, isn't it?

F1 Sporting Regulations, Appendix 3:

3 Anthems

a) A suitable sound system should be installed to ensure that national anthems (initiated by the master of ceremonies) are clearly heard with an audio link to the TV broadcast.

b) When the champagne shower begins, music should be played. This should not start until the presenters have left the podium.

Perhaps it would be more interesting if they played some different music. Any suggestions?

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by uechtel
But then I remember (very distantly) to have heard a comment (probably Christian Danner?), who said, that he´d rather take the bottle with him to enjoy it at home, but once he was fined for NOT spraying the champagne on the rostrum, as the rule book explicitly requires this in order to give Moet & Chandon some TV time.

Christmas Dinner on a F1 rostrum?

In his dreams maybe...

[blip]

Originally posted by dolomite
Perhaps it would be more interesting if they played some different music. Any suggestions?

Ode to Joy? Or how about the Merrie Melodies tune from Bugs Bunny

[DOHC]

Originally posted by dolomite
F1 Sporting Regulations, Appendix 3:

Can't see either of Bizet or Carmen mentioned there. In fact, I think that rule doesn't even exclude "playing" John Cage's 4'33".

Originally posted by dolomite
Perhaps it would be more interesting if they played some different music. Any suggestions?

Indeed it would. Why not take Rossini's "Ouverture" from Wilhelm Tell for a change? Few of the F1 followers who aren't deaf already ;) probably wouldn't notice there had been a change.

Otherwise, why not go for a total change and throw in some really modern music. For example Master of going faster by Geroge Harrison?

[Ray Bell]

How about we wipe the rule and eliminate the music altogether?

Including the anthems...

Maybe it would spread, the TV broadcasts might not return from their ad breaks with loud rock music either?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Im not sure why the anthems are there, but id keep them. Id also up the quality. Somehow plug it directly into the world feed so it comes out clearer instead of from the podium speakers into the camera microphones into your TV. The champagne music seems irrelevant however, and rarely heard during the telecast.

[Ray Bell]

They're a total waste of time, Ross... as they are at the Olympics...

Competitors are individuals or team members in F1, they don't compete 'for their country' just as Olympians are individuals (though this is lost in the way it's done these days).

So why waste everyone's time with an anthem that the majority of people in the majority of cases don't know or want to know?

As for the feed... this is what dolomite posted...

3 Anthems

a) A suitable sound system should be installed to ensure that national anthems (initiated by the master of ceremonies) are clearly heard with an audio link to the TV broadcast.

b) When the champagne shower begins, music should be played. This should not start until the presenters have left the podium.

'...with an audio link to the TV broadcast' being the salient point.

[Frank S]

Originally posted by dolomite





Perhaps it would be more interesting if they played some different music. Any suggestions?

Waltz of the cuckoos?

(Laurel and Hardy {El Gordo y el flaco} theme)

[uechtel]

Originally posted by Vicuna


Christmas Dinner on a F1 rostrum?

In his dreams maybe...

I did not use the letters "F1" in this context. Of course there are other forms of racing where he can remember more successful days.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
They're a total waste of time, Ross... as they are at the Olympics...

You've obviously never seen the medal presentation at the Olympics, Senna win at Interlagos, or Ferrari win at Monza (which is surprising since its somewhat frequent now)

'...with an audio link to the TV broadcast' being the salient point. [/B]

Im talking about a direct feed drop in, the same feed that goes to the speakers.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by DOHC
John Cage's 4'33".

I find that awfully repetitive after the first few seconds ...

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You've obviously never seen the medal presentation at the Olympics, Senna win at Interlagos, or Ferrari win at Monza (which is surprising since its somewhat frequent now)

Im talking about a direct feed drop in, the same feed that goes to the speakers.

I think that's what '...with an audio link to the TV broadcast' means. What else could it mean?

As for whether or not I've seen such a presentation or been to one, what relevance has that? Everyone standing silent as anthems are played? Is that really adding anything to the setting?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Because earlier in the thread you complained about the over-commercialisation of F1. What then is removing the anthem ceremony?

As far as the audio, no there's no direct feed atm. Its simply the podium loudspeakers and PA system which you can hear at the track, being picked up on the camera microphones.

[Ray Bell]

Removing the anthem doesn't in any way affect the commercialism... it reduces the nationalism, however... which can't be bad.

And if they are not linking directly into the TV feed, they would seem to me to be in breach of the rules.

[Ross Stonefeld]

They are taking the TV feed, but not the direct audio.

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


I find that awfully repetitive after the first few seconds ...

A tad boring, isn't it!;)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
They are taking the TV feed, but not the direct audio.

So, like I said, they must be breaking the rules. Right?

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by uechtel
I always wondered about this almost stereotypic behaviour.

But then I remember (very distantly) to have heard a comment (probably Christian Danner?), who said, that he´d rather take the bottle with him to enjoy it at home...

I don't remember if I have mentioned this on TNF before now, but in 1990 I co-drove with Denny Hulme in a Mercedes Benz 500SL in the Grand Prix Rally to the Australian GP in Adelaide. (Co-drove being the more than usually accurate term, because he'd just broken his shoulder when he tipped over one of his vintage tractors in NZ and I had to do the gear changing, while he steered with his one good arm).

We scored a placing of some sort, because we were up on the F1 rostrum in front of the grandstand, with all the top-placed cars below us, and we were handed an already-opened large bottle of champagne each.

Denny said, "Don't spray it! This stuff can ruin the paint on those cars down there... And it's too good to waste; we can give it to the mechanics." I had no intention of spilling a drop, but was interested to learn that he had the same idea.

So we leaned over and performed a dodgy-looking "drop and catch" manouevre from a great height, brilliantly well caught by the mechanics down below, without spilling any, as I recall.

A couple of days later, I was visiting Denny in his plush hotel room, paid for by Mercedes-Benz (after the rally he was still on M-B expenses for the weekend; I was by then paying my own way). My teenage daughter was with me and she had never seen a five-star hotel room, so Denny was giving her a guided tour.

He proudly showed her the mini-bar, untouched. She gasped, "Wow! Look at all that stuff! Do you get that free?"

"No way," said Denny, "They charge you extra. Have a look at the prices."

She almost choked: "$xx for a small can of Coke!? $xx for a chocolate bar!?"

"There's no way I'm paying those prices," he told her, "When I want something I go down the street and buy it at the milk bar."

"But," I asked, "Isn't Mercedes-Benz Australia paying for your extra hotel expenses?"

"Yes," he growled, "But that's not the point. I'm not paying those prices with anybody's money. It's highway robbery."

So I would be interested to know if anyone has seen photos of Denny happily spraying champagne from a grand prix (or other) rostrum.

[Ray Bell]

Good point, Barry, maybe we can get drivers to use him as a role model...

By the way, does this mean he found a way to take it with him?

[St.Hubbins]

Anderstorp 1973

[Barry Lake]

Was he contracted to do this? Or did he just stay awake half the night, fighting with a guilty conscience.

Perhaps he became more concerned about such things as he got older.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


So, like I said, they must be breaking the rules. Right?

Even you arent this thick Ray.

[Ray Bell]

As you roam from thread to thread, Ross, hurling abuse at various members of the various forums, does it ever occur to you that you might be the one that's missing something?

The rules say they have to plug the music into the TV...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
As you roam from thread to thread, Ross, hurling abuse at various members of the various forums, does it ever occur to you that you might be the one that's missing something?

The rules say they have to plug the music into the TV...

No, I understand it quite clearly. That you dont agree or understand my understanding and choose to be nasty about it is your problem, though I dont enjoy you dragging me into it.

So I'll explain it again. At the moment the anthem is produced by some sort of player. I assume a cassette or electronic recording. I doubt there's a band behind the podium. So the anthem goes from the player, to the podium speakers and the public address, to the general air. At that point its picked up by the trackside/camera microphones which is transmitted to the audio coming out of your TV set. The quality is *terrible*. It'd be better to inject the original audio signal directly into the broadcast signal in addition to piping it though the speakers and public address, so the TV viewers (who dwarf the trackside audience) could better hear it.

Neither format violates your precious rule Ray.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos


Art,

I believe Jules Goux drank one or two glasses of chilled wine as refreshment. Five bottles seems a lot to me.
Anyway wine is better than many energy drinks of today.

I dunno... I managed six quarter-bottles on a very quiet Air France flight between Paris and Manchester once.... that was only just over an hour ;)


....mind you I went a*se over t*t on the ramp down to the railway station when I got off the plane and twisted my ankle quite badly!

[Math Soucy]

Jules Goux may be the first documented example of an Indy 500 Winner to be guilty of DUI in victory lane.