64 replies to this topic

[BRG]

After the C4 Seaman programme, comes the BBC's take on Enzo:-

Timewatch
Channel: BBC2
Date: Friday 23 January Time: 9:00pm to 9:50pm

Review
The history series that investigates myths, legends and stories from around the world examines the life of motor sport legend Enzo Ferrari, a highly secretive man with a dream that relied on manipulating those around him in order to make it happen. Featuring interviews with those close to Ferrari and with Michael Schumacher, Stirling Moss and Jody Scheckter.

also billed elsewhere as:-

The Life and Loves of Enzo Ferrari
He was famed for his vendettas and loved speed and power. He was branded a monster by the Pope, and his life was always overshadowed by the tragic death of his son

Should we be waiting with fear and trepidation? Will there be another outing for Doug's televisual beard? Anyone know anything about this show?

[Vitesse2]

According to BBC History magazine it's fronted by "ex-Ferrari driver Alain de Cadenet". Well - yes - but not the one they show in a picture behind him, which looks like a 312T!

[Doug Nye]

Not guilty on this one - beyond having supplied some still photographs - Richard Williams is involved with it I understand. It's been made for the BBC by Ginger Productions...

DCN

[Doug Nye]

Not guilty on this one - beyond having supplied some still photographs - Richard Williams is involved with it I understand. It's been made for the BBC by Ginger Productions... They're still working on it right now so time's getting tight...

DCN

[Gary C]

Ginger Productions?? Oh my God!!

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Gary C
Ginger Productions?? Oh my God!!

Let's hope the only input Mr Evans had was putting up the money!

[Garagiste]

Indeed. Also hope that Alain de Cadenet has a fire extinguisher handy, Ferraris seem to spontaneously combust in his presence.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Apart from the "Ginger" connection, the provenance is looking good.

I can see Friday 23 January being a "night in/chianti night"

[Breadmaster]

as this is on tommorrow night i thought i'd bring this to the top and spark some debate.....

best of all: upon hearing this programme was on, the wife immediately said she was going out!

[Doug Nye]

Richard Williams- author of the most recent biog of Enzo Ferrari - has been consultant on this programme and he tells me he's actually seen a preview of the finished piece and WAS allowed tomake some corrections to it. Apart from the inevitable 'general audience' bait which will infest the opening minutes sounds as if it should be pretty darned good.... Ummm - where have I heard that before?

DCN

[green-blood]

I read Richard's bio on honeymoon last year...a pretty good read it was too.

I hope we dont have a 20 minute slot of middle aged balding fat guys polishing their 308s and doing Tom Seleck impressions, whilst spouting about the grand history of Ferrari!!!!!!!!!!

[RTH]

Don't forget to watch it TONIGHT FRIDAY 9.00 pm BBC2

[joriswouters]

I'll watch and tape it.

[Bladrian]

Originally posted by green-blood
I read Richard's bio on honeymoon last year...a pretty good read it was too.

I hope we dont have a 20 minute slot of middle aged balding fat guys polishing their 308s and doing Tom Seleck impressions, whilst spouting about the grand history of Ferrari!!!!!!!!!!

Certainly not likely to be a quote by an italophile.

[condor]

I thought this was a very enjoyable programme

Nice to see Michael at the end

[Paul Taylor]

I'd agree with condor I missed the first 20 minutes But the last 30 minutes was still rather interesting

By the way, does anyone know what that late-1950s Sportscar pit fire was? I think it was the 'Ring. Does anyone know who and when?

[Doug Nye]

1960 ADAC 1,000Kms, Nurburgring - Giorgio Scarlatti - Ferrari Dino

Nice to see an hour-long prog totally unpunctuated by bloody commercials - God Bless the BBC...

Well done Richard - number of issues for debate....nice to see de Cad's finally flipped and is standing alone in a field with a car...talking to himself while focused on the sunset...

DCN

[Paul Taylor]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
1960 ADAC 1,000Kms, Nurburgring - Giorgio Scarlatti - Ferrari Dino

Nice to see an hour-long prog totally unpunctuated by bloody commercials - God Bless the BBC...

Well done Richard - number of issues for debate....nice to see de Cad's finally flipped and is standing alone in a field with a car...talking to himself while focused on the sunset...

DCN

Thanks for the ID, Doug

I think that we should make sure the BBC sorts out motor racing programmes in the future, because then I don't think we will be so disappointed at the outcome ;)

[VAR1016]

Not particularly impressed.

the usual stupid re-enactions (Ferrari brothers playing in the mud, blah blah).

Loads of hopeless and entirely unnecessary and inappropriate music; why?

Interesting story about Ferrari selling his house to buy a racing car (translated as "sports car". I understood that he got a job as test driver through his friend Sivocci. Ferrari's career as a driver ended, I thought in 1931 at a hill climb.

Donnington footage pretending to be 1935 Nurburgring.

Early race dubbed with 1970's engines sound track.

Forghieri came across as utterly charming - I would dearly like to meet him - in fact I liked all the old boys..

PdeRL

[Eric McLoughlin]

Yes - I thought the choice of music was a bit odd. Maybe Chris Evans did have an input after all. On the whole, not too bad. More silly camerawork - but I expect that nowadays. I would have liked a little more on the business side of things - there was no mention of the attempted Ford buyout, the "almost" financial collapse in the late 1960s or the eventual sale to FIAT.

Still, shouldn't grumble too much - 7 out of 10 I'd say.

[Paul Taylor]

Does anyone know if this will be re-run sometime?

[James L. Kalie]

Now here's the important part, how can we find out what kind of rating or share it got for it's timeslot. Someone at BBC will know. Call em', find out and post it. Bye, Bye.

[David McKinney]

I found it generally OK
But I'm still wondering about its claim to "lift the veil" on Ferrari's "secretive life". Don't think much was revealed that hadn't already appeared in print

[bill moffat]

Enjoyed it thoroughly. Felt that it toe'd that fine commercial line between keeping us boring old farts happy whilst catering for the wider audience also. I'm sure The Old Man would have raised an eyebrow at the bizarre choice of music.

The producers did fall into one trap. It is seemingly a pre-requisite of any motor sport programme to give Stirling a call and invite him to give his contribution on the joys of "crumpet". I admire him enormously but perhaps a different topic next time?

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by bill moffat

It is seemingly a pre-requisite of any motor sport programme to give Stirling a call and invite him to give his contribution on the joys of "crumpet". I admire him enormously but perhaps a different topic next time?

Well it's Sir Stirling's opportunity to display a little political incorrectitude, and for that surely we must be grateful.

I am!

PdeRL

[jonpollak]

Here Here...
more 'Joys of Crumpet'

Enjoyed the programme

Jp

[Hse289]

Good programme, shame they skipped past the Phil Hill era. He did win a Championship with Ferrari.

[RTH]

What a nice surprise, a very well made programme, more of this please.

It would be nice to see similar films on lesser known figures - there are already a great many Ferrari videos - but this was a quality production with a lot of material squeezed in to 50 minutes

Well done the BBC - now if only they could get back ........the GP coverage.........the WRC.......the BTCC........Le Mans........... etc - nobody does it better.

Fine job Mr Williams and friends

[masterhit]

Another successfully done programme!

Good stuff.

I ranted about the guitar music, but then, I'm a moody git and it helps bring it to a wider audience!!

The bit about Enzo needing a pill to calm down when he watched Gilles race, as it reminded him of Nuvolari, was sweet. A well balanced programme.

[FrankB]

Did I mishear, or did the programme credit Michael Schumacher with winning 6 WDCs for the Ferrari team?

[Bladrian]

Originally posted by FrankB
Did I mishear, or did the programme credit Michael Schumacher with winning 6 WDCs for the Ferrari team?

Oops. The BBC prophet gnomes let that one slip out ...

[Eric McLoughlin]

I heard it too - Flavio should have been on the 'phone to Greg Dyke pretty sharpish.

[2F-001]

I heard it - but I think the VO said ''World Championships" - I couldn't think how many Constructor's titles he's contributed to... but if you add up the whole lot it still won't tally, surely...

[Racer.Demon]

Originally posted by Hse289
Good programme, shame they skipped past the Phil Hill era. He did win a Championship with Ferrari.

I agree, I missed the whole '61/'62 Laura/ATS episode, but in all it was reasonable - for a general-interest programme, that is. To my taste, it catered more to the general public rather than lifting any veils. I didn't learn anything new, and 50 minutes seemed way too short for the informed motorsport aficionado, as most of the time was used to tell the story instead of going into details or "secrets". Great to see all those Italian faces, though.

Very peculiar to continuously hear Led Zeppelin dubbed into the racing footage, particularly as the whole programme didn't touch on 1970 once....

[Gary C]

believe me, that WASN'T Led Zeppelin!! They are MUCH better than the stuff used in that programme!!

[Racer.Demon]

No, you're right - now that I'm thinking back, most of it (at least some!) was AC/DC.

I might be wrong but I do think I heard a Zep riff once - probably jumped out at me, as they are among my favourites too, Gary...

[Doug Nye]

I have a bit of a problem with the prog's editorial structure - which perhaps I shouldn't air - but here goes anyway.

If they were seeking to project adequately the declared theme of "Enzo Ferrari dogged by death" it is curious that the linkage was not made between sorting out the 1957 Portago MM disaster litigation after four years just in time for the 1961 Trips Monza litigation to begin and then the 1967 Bandini Monaco catastrophe to occur - and roll in May, 1965, at Monza when the Old Man was present jollying along Bruno Deserti minutes before his fatal testing crash in the P2 - ...they kind of missed what was declared to be their own point. Possibly spending a lot of time listening to a bloke with sinus trouble telling the story of the 1935 German GP at a modern Nurburgring skewed things?

Generally I thought it was a pretty enjoyable hour's worth...though it's also worth studying quite how many times the Old Man - as a driver - really did "race against Nuvolari...".

DCN

[Paul Parker]

Here we go again! Just as in the Seaman programme the use of footage was chronologically inaccurate and the subject matter hopelessly compromised by the totally inadequate time allocated to the subject. Where the Seaman feature failed to mention the significance of the Ramponi/Delage year (1936) and its influence on Dick's subsequent Mercedes career so the Enzo tribute left out all mention of Ascari (Ferrari's first World Champion), Fangio's presence in 1956 and much else.

Frankly Enzo Ferrari (and indeed any of the historically significant figures of motor racing history) deserve proper coverage and are interesting enough to warrant doing the job properly. The latter day obsession with and commercial hype surrounding F1 surely supports a more thorough and representative portrayal of what was a fantastic and heroic adventure. However do not blame the pundits and personalities who appear in these productions, it is the programme makers and the bean counters who are to blame.

[RTH]

When all is said and done its been a very good couple of weeks for historic motor sport on TV - I hope the programme makers will be encouraged to make much more on our kind of subject matter. - anything any of us can do to help that along would be good ............after all if it doesn't get made you can't review it !

[Richard Jenkins]

I was left distinctly unimpressed by it all - in fact, in terms of expectation, it was the worst of all three recent programmes (crashes & Nazi Grand Prix).

One accusation at "crashes" was the use of fatal accident footage without any explanation.

I counted three fatal crashes shown on this documentary without any caption at all, and although two were related to Enzo, no link was made between the two.

Once again, the use of actors to make things "real." Apart from her obvious attributes, was there any real point to that woman re-inacting Musso's girlfriend? (Mind you, I did like her reaction when "Musso died". She pulled a glum face like a kid who's just been told no sweets, rather than being told her beloved is dead)

"Between 1965-1974, Ferrari won NOTHING." Really? Oh. I could have sworn they won something .... Likewise, as mentioned above, Michael Schumacher - six world titles with Ferrari - they get history wrong, understandable - but to get current day wrong

One saving grace were the people interviewed - the Italians & the past drivers. But I had trouble making out what Jody Scheckter was saying with all the appalling background music. But the "experts" - oh dear? What was the point of Saul David, who even managed to mis-pronounce von Brausitsch (again)? And I can't have been the only one who got a little annoyed with Stephen Bayley's pontificating.... Good thing Richard Williams was there....

Nothing new learnt at all. Nothing. Heaps missed out. "Crashes" had more explanation about the HANS device - "Nazi Grand Prix" - I learnt a fair bit I didn't know already - yes, there were flaws with those two programmes - but I fully expected that, considering which broadcasters were airing it out.

Shame on the BBC for making such useless pap - especially when their other documentary programmes - like "the King, the Kaiser & the Tsar" last night for example, was informative & not lacking the basic knowledge.

[Gary C]

'Shame on the BBC for making such useless pap - especially when their other documentary programmes - like "the King, the Kaiser & the Tsar" last night for example, was informative & not lacking the basic knowledge.'
You see Richie, the BBC didn't actually make this programme, it was made by Ginger Productions FOR the BBC. Ginger go away, film and edit the programme and just deliver the master tape to the BBC when it's finished. So the first time the BBC see it is when it's all done and dusted.

[masterhit]

Just sticking up for the programme makers a little, ultimately there are people who can devote years of their lives writing on a given subject and yet people can and do still find criticism, even after devoting all that time, and people can and do get bored and skim sections. And this is to a particularly long timescale personal project.

Really any TV documentary simply does not have the time to do so.

Now having said that, it bothers me that BBC3 can devote an entire day to a show such as "Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps" rather than historical F1, but I guess there is no logic to these things.....

At least it was a step in the right direction.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by Gary C
'Shame on the BBC for making such useless pap - especially when their other documentary programmes - like "the King, the Kaiser & the Tsar" last night for example, was informative & not lacking the basic knowledge.'
You see Richie, the BBC didn't actually make this programme, it was made by Ginger Productions FOR the BBC. Ginger go away, film and edit the programme and just deliver the master tape to the BBC when it's finished. So the first time the BBC see it is when it's all done and dusted.

Shame on the BBC for allowing such pap to be made FOR them & then screening it then.... The end result is the same...

[Gary C]

'Shame on the BBC for allowing such pap to be made FOR them & then screening it then.... '
That's the BBC these days for you. It wouldn't have happened thirty years ahgo, because all the programmes on the BBC were MADE by the BBC!!!

[Eric McLoughlin]

There is no reason why TV documentaries cannot be accurate, informative AND entertaining. The BBC have been able to make such programmes in the past. There seems to be too much of a "feely/emotional/shock/tabloidy/secrets" aspect to TV documentary making these days.

I always remember the line from the film "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which goes something like - "If the legend is more interesting than the truth, print the legend". That seems to be the maxim for much of what passes for jounalism and "factual" programming today.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
I always remember the line from the film "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which goes something like - "If the legend is more interesting than the truth, print the legend". That seems to be the maxim for much of what passes for jounalism and "factual" programming today.

Maxwell Scott, the publisher (played by the late Carleton Young:)
"You see, Senator, when the legend becomes fact, print the legend " - my favourite line from one of my all-time favourite movies, but you're quite right.

[MCS]

Usual TV rubbish in my opinion.

Why did it focus on Musso's death and not Collins's and then jump from that 1958 season to the Lauda accident at the Nurburgring, especially after Stirling Moss started to explain the merits of rear-engined cars over front-engined ones...?

There wasn't a single shot of a shark-nose, let alone mention of Von Trips or Phil Hill...although they were happy to show the Von Trips/Clark Monza accident in the opening titles...

It really was very poor and the images of Bandini at Monaco were absolutely disgraceful - even more so because they weren't explained in any way.

I've never liked the BBC and this kind of monstrosity just increases my dislike.

MCS

[VAR1016]

And the programme endeavoured to give the impression that Ferrari was being beaten left, right and centre by the Coopers in 1958 no mention at all of Vanwall).

And inevitably failed to mention Mike Hawthorn's World Championship...

Ginger's a twerp.

PdeRL

[ensign14]

Couple of things I saw for the first time on the footage of Lauda's accident; in the aftermth he was conscious and sitting up - I had understood he was comatose throughout and I wonder what Guy Edwards et al saw was the source for the story repeated by James Hunt that at the restart no-one thought Lauda was seriously injured?; and in the crash itself the Ferrari seemed to oversteer slightly before veering off in the opposite direction and into the barrier, I had never noticed the initial 'slip' before.

Ascari was not mentioned, but I saw footage of him. When they were talking about the 250GTO...

[Gary C]

the black & white footage of the aftermath of the Lauda accident was used in the (decent) BBC production in a series a few years ago called 'Clash Of The Titans'.