22 replies to this topic

[Hse289]

Hi, anybody know anything about the Turbine engine indy cars designed by Ken Wallis. I think it was for the 1968 indy 500 but were withdrawn . Bruce Mclaren and Denny Hulme were going to be the drivers. Did the cars not handle well or just too slow. I,ve only seen one picture of one in D Friedmans indy memories book. Whatever happened to them. Im sure theres an interesting story here.

[Vitesse2]

Here's a link to three threads over at TrackForum Nostalgia: mostly about the Lotus turbines, but there are regular mentions of the Shelby cars:

http://www.trackforu...ighlight=Shelby
http://www.trackforu...ighlight=Shelby
http://www.trackforu...ighlight=Shelby

As to where they are - see Racewriter's post in this thread:

http://www.trackforu...ighlight=Shelby

[lanciaman]

Originally posted by Hse289
Hi, anybody know anything about the Turbine engine indy cars designed by Ken Wallis. I think it was for the 1968 indy 500 but were withdrawn . Bruce Mclaren and Denny Hulme were going to be the drivers. Did the cars not handle well or just too slow. I,ve only seen one picture of one in D Friedmans indy memories book. Whatever happened to them. Im sure theres an interesting story here.

All of the above. Apparently there was a problem with front hub geometry that made them unhandleable. They also were excessively heavy and undeveloped. They were withdrawn with the suspicion that the sponsor, Botany 500, had been, shall we say, oversold. I don't remember if they ever took to the Indy track with an attempt at speed; in any case, there was a lot of interest in them but they came to and went from Gasoline Alley with some haste. Rumor had it one was later seen as a showcar. I thought they were fairly good looking cars...but what did I know?

[dolomite]

The Shelby car is covered in Jabby Crombac's 'Turbine Grand Prix'. The cars were withdrawn from the race in the aftermath of Mike Spence's fatal practice accident in the Lotus turbine, the announced reason by Shelby being that "After complete and intensive testing, I feel that at the present time it is impossible to make a turbine-powered car competitive with a reasonable degree of safety." However, Crombac states that this was acually a smokescreen to hide the real reason for withdrawal: the GE turbine used in these cars had been found to exceed the regulation air intake area limit of 105 sq cm.

[Hse289]

Thanks for the info guys.

[Macca]

I've been looking for a photo of the Shelby car - the only one I've ever seen is a b/w of the car in primer (apparently) in Gasoline Alley in poor light.

They never made it into official qualifying, being withdrawn after tests, so they don't appear on the Indy website galleries; but somewhere somebody's recollection is that they were blue with a white stripe(s). Is there a picture anywhere of the tests?

(Oddly, Hotwheels made millions of them, in a myriad of colours, rather than the more famous Silent Sam, although they also did a Lotus 56 model)

And what happened to Ken Wallis, who is alleged to have departed in controversial circumstances?



Paul M

[Dick Ralstin]

The Goodyear-Shelby turbines were "with drawn" from the race the Friday night before the first qualifying weekend.

Bruce And Denny both told Truesdale, Goodyear Director of Racing, the cars were cheaters but couldn't out it was being done, the acceleration out of a cprner was just unreal. Phil Remintgton finally found the secret and the cars were with drawn.

Before that Bruce and Denny both said the cars were plenty fast to qualify but were not safe to drive in race traffic. Something about the front spindes being to short making the cars almost unsteerable in turbulance and traffic.

I don't know where the cars are now, Botany had one on display, why I'll never know, for several years in it's stores the other one I have no idea.

I would have made boat anchors out of both of them.

The last time I saw Ken Wallis he was in Truesdale's room at the Speedway motel, crying.

[Michael Clark]

Good story on turbines in latest issue of MotorSport - the Shelby 68 Indy cars are mentioned..

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Here are Ray Heppenstall of Howmet-fames recollection of the project:

http://www.racingarc...heppenstall.htm - ca. midway down the page.

Jesper

[Macca]

Yes, it was the MS article, which features that one-and-only (?) picture of the Shelby that got me looking..........and I knew of the Heppenstall archive.

But I have a vague memory of seeing another pic of the Shelby back in '68, maybe in Autocar or Motor or R&T?


Paul M

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Macca
. . . that one-and-only (?) picture of the Shelby . . .

There are two more in Crombac's Turbine Grand Prix. One is a front view of the car being driven by Ken Wallis (very similar to the shot of McLaren in MS). The other is a side view showing the (uncovered) engine and cockpit. Both are black and white, I'm afraid, so no hints as to colour. I could scan and send them to you if you don't have access to the book.

[Vicuna]

There are photos of the Shelby turbine with BLMcL at the wheel in Fiedman's pictorial book on Indy in the 60s.

[T54]

One of the two cars (the one with the "Botany" sponsorship) showed up at the 2001 Victory Lane event at Fontana, CA, sans turbine but in very good original condition down to the paint in excellent shape.

The story as I heard it from uh, "informed sources" (now I sound like AP or Reuters! ) is quite simple: ole Ken Wallis had rigged a VARIABLE air intake. Once on the track, a uh... "moving device" was unmasking the air inlet a bit over the 105sq/in allowed. When the "pot aux roses" was discovered, Shelby was discreetly asked to pack up and leave, which... he did.
I could say "damn Yankees" but it was in fact an international conspiracy.

[Macca]

Thanks for your help on this, guys - I've tracked down the Fiedman book with the photo of Bruce sitting in pit lane, and I'm guessing that the colours were the usual Shelby metallic blue/metallic white?

The sponsor, 'Botany 500', was that the mens' clothing business?


Paul M

[Gerr]

Macca,
In the '68 Clymer yearbook, Jack Fox has the Shelby #69 (Hulme) as blue, gold and white, the #66 (McLaren) as maroon, gold and white and the third entry, #39, did not appear.

Karlcars had a very good history of the Wallis/Shelby fiasco in "Sports Car International" Dec/Jan 2000. No colour pics, though.
He followed that with an article on Wallis' planned CanAm turbine project in the March 2001 issue.

[T54]

The car seen at Fontana was the maroon-gold-white job.

[Macca]

The picture in the Fiedman book shows McLaren in no. 69...



The tone of the photo does suggest to me that the main colour is blue; would the gold be pinstriping between the main and the stripe, or the colour of the sponsor's name 'Botany' 500 on the sides of the nose?

Paul M

[gbl]

This is from an ad before the race:

[Gerr]

Macca,
Probably the Freidman pic is from a test hop.
The SCI article has 2 photos of #69 with Hulme driving and his name on the side of the bodywork.
McLaren is on the entry list as driver of #66.

I think you're right on the colours.

[WatkinsGlen68]

Originally posted by Macca
The picture in the Fiedman book shows McLaren in no. 69...



The tone of the photo does suggest to me that the main colour is blue; would the gold be pinstriping between the main and the stripe, or the colour of the sponsor's name 'Botany' 500 on the sides of the nose?

Paul M

The Shelby Turbine #69 was on display at the New York Auto Show in '68 or '69. The color scheme was NOT similar to the classis blue and white of a Cobra. The main color was definitely blue. I'm guessing that the trim color was either gold or yellow. That's the best I can do from memory.

However, I took a pretty good color photo of it - which I still have. The problem is that I'm in the middle of packing to sell my home and move. The old photos are already in moving boxes. If you're still curious about the color, e-mail a reminder to me in about 6 months and I'll scan and post the photo.

[T54]

The "Botany 500" car at Fontana that was brown, definitely HAD the original (somewhat faded) paint and decor. Of course there were two cars, so the other could have been blue!

[Vitesse2]

Both Shelby cars are currently part of an exhibit of no fewer than eleven Indy turbines at the IMS museum:

 

Historic turbines return to Indianapolis Motor Speedway

[RA Historian]

As I understand, both the Shelby cars are now owned by Don Devine.

 

Tom