9 replies to this topic

[King Nigel]

Hi there !

I just finished Rudolf Caracciola's autobiography (A racing driver's world), but I can't find the answer to a specific question. Well, Caracciola drove sportcars for Mercedes in 1952 until he had his terrible accident in Bern. He then partnered Lang and Kling. Two years later, when Mercedes arrived in the F1 world championship, both Lang and Kling drove their fantastic car, alongside Fangio. My question is : without his accident in 1952, would Caracciola have been part of this dream team ? What was the plan ? Can you just imagine one minute a Fangio-Caracciola duet ?? Wow !

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by King Nigel
Caracciola drove sportcars for Mercedes in 1952 until he had his terrible accident in Bern. He then partnered Lang and Kling.

Don't quite follow that last bit
But to get to the point, I'm sure there's no doubt Caratsch would have been on the 1954 team, though whether he would just be used occasionally, like Lang, or became a full-time member of the GP team would presumably have depended on how competitive he was in testing

[Vitesse2]

Interesting thought, but I don't think he'd have been a full-time team member - he was born in 1901, so he'd have been 53 when Mercedes returned. Lang was eight years younger, but only raced once in the WDC - like Lang, Rudi might have had the odd guest drive, but probably not in the same race as his old team mate: I think he'd have preferred to partner von Brauchitsch ....

Kling had only started racing at the top of the sport in 1947, at the age of 37, and was much more of a full-time driver than either of the two pre-War stars by the early 50s.

[King Nigel]

By the way, did Caracciola and Fangio ever met ?

[Eric McLoughlin]

They certainly met in the 50s, but probably not actually on track. The documentary of the 1955 TT race at Dundrod shows Carraciola in the pits as a guest of the Mercedes team for whom Fangio wqas driving.

[GIGLEUX]

In fact don't forget the only one event where they both raced: Mille Miglia 1952, Fangio with an Alfa-Romeo 1900 Superleggera Touring bodied and Caracciola with a 300 SL Mercedes. They don't compete in the same category and if Fangio finished in 22° place Caraccioala was classified 4°.

[Paul Parker]

Even without the Bremgarten shunt I cannot believe that Rudy would have made it into the 1954 Mercedes GP team. He was already severely damaged goods with his smashed hip from Monaco '33 that caused him much pain and problems throughout the decade, then there was the Indy practice crash in, if memory serves correctly, 1947. There was also the small fact of his liver disease, caused possibly by drinking contaminated water in Africa presumably Tripoli during the late 1930s if what has been written elsewhere is accurate. He was prematurely old for his years and died of cirrhosis (forgive spelling) in 1959.

As for the other pre-war Mercedes drivers, Lang who was only a year or two older than Fangio, was unfit and although still very quick on occasion could not sustain a consistent pace at Grand Prix level. His wartime drinking habits no doubt contributed to this whilst the grand Manfred was very definitely personna non grata in the post war era. Perhaps the saddest fact was that Kling's full potential was wasted during the war years and he came into top line racing just too late and by 1954/55 was really too old. In any case having JMF and SCM in the same team in 1955 must have been impossible for the other drivers. By the way what became of Andre Simon who later raced Ferraris and Cobras during the 1960s?

[David McKinney]

Don’t forget Caracciola’s fourth place in the 1952 Mille Miglia, Paul. OK, not up to his pre-war form, but it was after all his first race for more than 12 years, and not a bad effort. I still think he would have been given at least one GP drive in 1954

In spite of the various problems you mention, Lang was pretty handy in postwar events -
•1950 - second in the Solitude F2 race, after qualifying on pole
•1951 - second and third in the Argentine Temporada races (after leading one race for more than half the distance)
•1952 - first in the Le Mans 24hrs and Nürburgring sportscar race, second in the Preis von Bern and the Carrera Panamericana
•1953 - class leader in the Nürburgring 1000km race, fifth in the Swiss GP

[Roger Clark]

I've always been very glad that Caracciola didn't race a W196. He was one of the greatest of all Grand Prix drivers, but was beginning to be beaten by younger men 15 years earlier. He apparantly turned down the opportunity to drive in Argentina in 1951 and I hope he would have done the same in 1954.

[Ray Bell]

I agree with Roger... I hold Caracciola in the highest regard and would not have liked to have seen that image tainted by poor performances (which they would surely have been alongside Fangio's) in the W196.

This would have meant Kling would have been beating him too, and that hip pain would have surely caused him to give up when it got too rough.

What does come to light in this discussion, however, is that he really wasn't that much older than Fangio. So he could have, had he not hurt himself as he did and had he been able to keep on racing, been in a position to have run with the very best in the early post-war period.

I daresay he would have loved to have been included in the trials at the M-B test track or at Hockenheim out of public gaze, however...