24 replies to this topic

[E.A.F.]

It is in fact the first car being built purely by Enzo Ferrari (maybe the first actually is the Alfa Romeo Bimotore...?). It is and looks brilliant. Could anyone provide some more information about this car? Thanks in advance!!!

[dretceterini]

The Bimotore, even though Ferrari has a big hand in creating it, was an Alfa. I can see how someone might consider it a Ferrari though, as he ran the racing team at that time. The man that was really behind the Bimotore was Roselli, who was an Alfa engineer that was in their aviation department, and than later with the Scuderia.

Alfa and Ferrari had a "parting of minds", and the agreement when Ferrari split was that he couldn't produce cars for 5 years. Auto Avio was really as much a tool and machine company as a car company, and that was Ferrari's main business.

Ferrari wanted to produce a 12 cylinder car, but cost was a proble. The first car he built (actually 2 were made; 1 of which exists today...one had a slightly longer tail than the other) was the 815, with some ex-Alfa people and Nardi. In a sense, the car is really as much a FIAT as anything. The basic engine design is really Nardi FIAT. There are other cars with similar engines that are really kind of made up of 2 FIAT 1100 blocks with a common cyliner head.

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by E.A.F.
It is in fact the first car being built purely by Enzo Ferrari (maybe the first actually is the Alfa Romeo Bimotore...?). It is and looks brilliant. Could anyone provide some more information about this car? Thanks in advance!!!

It is true that the two Bomotore were built at Ferrari's workshops, but of oourse this was under the aegis of Alfa-Romeo, so it is generally considered that the AAC 815 was the first "Ferrari".

Two cars were built. The engine was made from two FIAT 1100 blocks, forming a straight-eight, with a special crankshaft giving 1500c.c. capacity. The FIAT rods were used. I think that a special head was made but I am not sure about this. There was a bonus scheme at the time for those who used FIAT components.

One car was allegedly scrapped in the 1960s; the other survives.

I think that this is the supject of other threaadds here and a search will surely provide more information

PdeRL

[D-Type]

Does anybody have a photo of the 815, please? I don't think I have ever seen one.

[David McKinney]

I may be 'way off beam here, but I thought that both original 815s had long since disappeared, and that the existing car is a ground-up re-creation?

[VAR1016]

First, a correction: the block was cast in aluminium, FIAT 1100 heads were used; according to Nardi, the cars were designed by Alberto Massimino.

According to Hans Tanner (and that bloke off the telly) in their book "Ferrari" Car 021 (originally driven by Rangoni) "will never see another junkyard." The car driven by Ascari was scrapped.

The cars were run in the 1940 Mille Miglia, but in the book, there is a picture of Beltracchini driving one at Pescara in 1948.

PdeRL

[E.A.F.]

According to Ruoteclassiche #180, the one of the two 815's is in the ownership of Mario Righini, who has a splendid collection of automobiles and motorcycles.

[Roger Clark]

In Motor sport June 1966 Denis Jenkinson wrote a two page article about the 815. It was based on research by Peter Coltrin, but was the sort of article that, in my experience, DSJ didn't write unless he was fairly sure of his facts.

In early 1965, a reader had written to Motor Sport asking waht had happened to the 815s. Hans Tanner had replied, saying that one had been modified ot of all recognition, by Enrico Nardi, and the other had been scrapped.

Coltrin started a research project to trace the history of the two cars, including talking to Nardi and to Alberto Massimino who designed them.

Nardi did not modify one of the cars, but he did start to build a 2-litre sports car using various parts which he took with him at the end of the war.

Coltrin found that one car, "020", which was driven by the Marquis Lotario Rangoni Machiavelli in the 1940 Gran Premio di Brescia, had indeed been broken up. The second car "021", which was driven by Alberto Ascari, has survived and had appeared at the Trade Fair in modena that year (1966). Apparantly Enzo Ferrari was keen to retrieve the car, and there were rumours that he had offered a brand new Ferrari in exchange.

Of course, none of this means that the car David refers to is not a ground-up recreation.

[Doug Nye]

I believe the so-called 'surviving' car belonging to Mario Righini to have been restored from the neglected remains of the original and, mindful of what Pete Coltrin told DSJ and I about it when he went to see the thing back in the 1960s and from my own initial first-hand rummage around it at the Ferrari 50th bash in Rome a few years back, I would happily regard it as being 'the real thing'. Righini did take us through what was original on it and which panels were not, etc, but I honestly cannot recall the details, neither are my notes immediately excavatable. But there was a great deal more on it that was real than on some other cars I could cite (like some of those discussed at Laleham the other night...). The replica is the factory's 'Cortese 1947 V12 car' as seen in 'colourized' action on the Beeb's Ferrari programme last night.

DCN

[corsaresearch]

Late 1937, early 1938 AutoItaliana writes about a new Squadra being formed in Torino for which SIATA-boss Giorgio Ambrosini and is engineers built a prototype SuperSport straight-eight engine of 1500cc by connecting two four-cylinder motors. Nothing more is know about this prestigious project but when I discussed this with Ing. Andrea Curami he made vage suggestions that this could have been the basis-engine that powered the Autoavioconstruzioni 815; "At that time there was no other straight-eight, 1500cc engine available...at least not in Italy" he said.
Possible, no exact dates are on hand but it certainly needs to be mentioned that the engineers at the Via Leonardo da Vinci were working on a project like this but never showed it in public. Probably it remained in the prototype stadium and never was built-in an appropriate car. However, it all makes me think of cars like the Nardi-Danese Marco which also used a straight eight connecting two 750cc engines ...however, there is one little, very low quality picture of the SIATA 8-in-line ... but with DOHC. The Nardi unit is a pushrod machine.

[dretceterini]

There were various executions of this engine design concept in the late 1940s; some used seperate blocks with a single head, and others used a single cast block with 2 FIAT heads. I beleive versions were made using Topolino blocks and with 1100 blocks. The largest total displacement
version I'm aware of was 2 liters.

There was also a 2 liter convertable built by Nardi using the concept of 2 joined motors. I'm not sure if it's the same car or another one, but there has been a siluro bodied, cycle fendered car still in bare aluminum of 2 liters that has raced in the last few years in some vintage events. The grille on the car is kind of Alfa 158 shaped.

I have seen Righini's car in person, and I believe it is real.

As to the SIATA version of this "joined motor" concept; I know nothing about it.

The Ferrari factory "replicar" (beautifully done...it was at the yearly cars show on Rodeo Road in Beverly Hills a couple of years ago) is a 125 barchetta, not an 815 (unless they have also built an 815 copy I'm unaware of)...

[Vrba]

The car was designed by Alberto Massimino and Vittorio Bellentani. The Fiat base was taken from the Fiat's model 508C. The body was built by Carozzeria Touring of Milan. They were also responsible for early post-war "true" Ferraris. As the pic show, it looked quite differently from how would the first "true" Ferrari, the 125S look in 1947:



Hrvoje

[dretceterini]

Here is a good photo of the car..

http://www.barchetta.../dsc-3368-1.jpg

[Ray Bell]

Road & Track carried a story about the 815s, I'm sure.

Circa 1971?

[robert dick]

Twenty years ago, the French magazine "Fanauto" published an article about the 815 :

Was built for the 1940 "Mille Miglia" (157-km circuit Brescia-Mantua-Cremona, 24 April 1940) - Fiat offered substantial awards for class wins/when Fiat parts were used.
Ordered by Lotario Rangoni Machiavelli.
Enrico Nardi responsible for the chassis (Fiat Ballila);
Luigi Bazzi responsible for the gearbox;
Alberto Massimino responsible for the engine - 8-cylinder block (63/60 mm) came from Alessandro Calzoni/Bologna + 2 OHV Ballila heads;
body from Carrozzeria Touring.

Two cars for Rangoni/Nardi and Ascari/Minozzi. Both retired, Rangoni because of a broken connecting rod, Ascari because of a broken valve rocker.

Rangoni died in a plane crash during the war.

The Rangoni car was scrapped, parts of the Ascari car survived (vettura 815A, motore 815-021, telaio 815-021).

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Road & Track carried a story about the 815s, I'm sure.

Circa 1971?

I'm not sure of the date Ray, but R&T did have a 'Salon' feature on the 815 of Mario Righini. If memory serves, I think the article was by Phil Hill.

[E.A.F.]

Thank you guys for the information!!!

Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury
I'm not sure of the date Ray, but R&T did have a 'Salon' feature on the 815 of Mario Righini. If memory serves, I think the article was by Phil Hill.

Do you (or anyone else) have this article?

[Milan Fistonic]

And there is a book about the 815 written by Franco Varisco.

815 - The Genesis of Ferrari

April 1990

Hyde Park Group plc

ISBN 1-872718-01-9

[Arjan de Roos]

Wasn't the 815 made from part of a Fiat 518? Enzo Ferrari liked to juggle with figures to get a proper name for his cars.
The Rangoni 815 was scrapped in the war by his brother after Rangoni had his fatal crash.

The two 815's were similar cars. But the main difference was the tail section that was longer on the Rangoni car.

The Ascari 815 is really genuine. Ferrari only made a replica of the 'first' Ferrari. The 125S (Sport). As this car was scrapped/re-used as was the case with many Ferraris later on.

The 815 is not the first Ferrari in the sense that its an AAC 815 (AAC=Auto Avio Construzione). Enzo Ferrari was not aloud to use his name on cars by Alfa at that time (1939-1940). Hence the 125S is considered to be first...
But can someone tell me if the 815's appaered painted black when they participated the Mille Miglia?

[dretceterini]

The only period pictures I have of the car are in balck and white, and it is impossible to say with any certainty what color the cars were. They certainly appear to be darker than the "standard" Ferrari red. I'm aware that there are miniatures of the car in balck, but have no idea if they are correct or not....sorry

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Wasn't the 815 made from part of a Fiat 518? Enzo Ferrari liked to juggle with figures to get a proper name for his cars.

Well, the AAC car was an eight-cylinder 1.5 litre car, so Ferrari had two choices: either 158 or 815, so he had to take 815!


PdeRL

[D-Type]

Originally posted by dretceterini
The only period pictures I have of the car are in balck and white, and it is impossible to say with any certainty what color the cars were. They certainly appear to be darker than the "standard" Ferrari red. I'm aware that there are miniatures of the car in balck, but have no idea if they are correct or not....sorry

I think the black models were part of an in memoriam series that Brumm produced.

But were the originals 'standard' rosso corsa or were they maroon like the photo in the link posted above: http://www.barchetta.../dsc-3368-1.jpg ? I have seen pictures of miniatures in both colours and I would like to buy the right one.

Does anybody know?

[dretceterini]

I belive taht both cars were darker than the typical Ferrari red, but not as dark as maroon. They were never black.

[D-Type]

I forgot what the answer was and at a toy fair today I forked out all of £3.50 for an unboxed Brumm 815 with a short tail and race no. 66. But it is black not deep red ! Trust me! I bought the wrong one Well, it's only £3.50.

Does anyone know why Brumm modelled it in black? Was it a Ferrari 'in memoriam' as I suggested above, or was it poor research?

[MOB]

yes, it's in Italy in Mario Righini collection, recently it is been used in the movie "ferrari" and it was shown in MilleMiglia museum in Brescia (I) too.

you can see 11 pictures in

www.uniquecars.org