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Irrational, illogical... but (probably) justified


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#1 ian senior

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 12:35

When I was a lad and I started following motor racing, there were certain teams and drivers that I took a complete dislike to. For instance, Jackie Stewart: probably bacause he was winning everything at the time, which I found boring, and also because of his "trendy" image and tax-exile status. I knew he was good, of course, but that didn't mean to say I had to like him. Ferrari: couldn't stand all that fawning over Enzo, and the threats of withdrawal if he/they didn't get their own way. And probably most of all, March. I thought Keith Duckworth's name for this lot summed them up perfectly.

Times change of course, and so do opinions. Nowadays I both like and respect Sir Jackie Stewart; the world would be a poorer place without him. I grew to like March, probably because of the Peterson connection, but I'm afraid I still don't go a bundle on Ferrari. Nowadays they seem to be the Manchester United of motor sport - the brand comes first, and they tend to attract a following from glory hunters.

Any other ridiculous and probably unfounded long-lasting prejudices out there?

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#2 SennasCat

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 13:06

Helio Casto-Neves. Probably because he got the gig at Penske that Greg Moore should've. And his lame 'spiderman' impressions climbing the fence.

Tony Longhurst for winning Bathurst in 1988 when Allan Moffat (hero since I was about 7) looked set with 30 laps to go. Funny, I've grown to like Longhurst over the years since.

Alain Prost. Never seemed to have much 'balls'. Tecnhically brilliant F1 driver but a lousy F1 racer (IMO). Also for his wet-weather 'skills' (although to be fair Pironi going up and over him at Hockenheim mustn't have helped). And also had an excuse for everything. We won't even bring up his off-track behaviour.

All of these guys are pretty accomplished by varying degrees - it's pretty irrational. sometimes I can't even understand my own thinking :confused: :stoned:

#3 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 13:17

I was never a great fan of Brabham, despite thinking Gordon Murray was pretty good.
And Piquet I disliked right from his F3 days.

So.... Piquet at Brabham was a real non-starter for me!

I never much liked Benetton - it always seemed to be too full of warring factions to be a team you could actually feel anything positive about.

I've developed a complete anitpathy towards Jordan since 2000 or so. They thrilled me when they came into F1. I used to think they were a great little team even when they were underperforming with Yamahas, Harts and Pugs. EJ's change in attitude from a racer with a sense of fun to a socialite who happened to own a racing team that he doesn't particularly seem to care about.

I can't abide Ralf Schumacher. He has the charisma of a damp handkerchief, a face like a smacked behind and the sunny demeanour of the kid who was told he can't play in the sandpit. He also seems to think he's as good as his brother, which is just self-delusion.

Down at the level of minor formulae, I always rooted for drivers in Chevrons, Marches and later in Reynards over Ralts and Lolas. In FFord it was Reynard over Van Diemen....

Agree with you about Ferrari/Man Utd (isn't there some marketing tie-up between Ferrari, Man Utd and the NY Yankees?) - but right now Ferrari's just ex-Benetton painted orange - once Team Michael's retired I might get interested again.

These days I have perfectly rational and justifiable prejudices against Herrman Tilke, the Indy Racing League, Grand-Am (and particularly Daytona Prototypes), the V6 FRenault, the FIA's tolerance of Toyota, one-make racing, Silverstone.... the list goes on ;)

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 13:25

Originally posted by Steve Williams
.....Tony Longhurst for winning Bathurst in 1988 when Allan Moffat (hero since I was about 7) looked set with 30 laps to go. Funny, I've grown to like Longhurst over the years since.....


You might have done...

But I have never 'grown to like' Moffat! Though I do have some respect for him. How could anyone have him as a hero though? That's just beyond belief to me.

#5 FredF1

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 13:45

Jordan - mostly due to being an Irish F1 fan from the mid-'80's onwards. Suddenly, Irish tv starts broadcasting the races from 1995 and it's "F1? You must be a Jordan fan then?" I got tired of explaining that motor racing has been around for a century and not since Jordan arrived on the scene. That and EJ's "Look at me!, Look at me!" antics - as I witnessed, in person, at Spa in 2000.

F3000 - It's just crap. Nobody cares about it - go to an F1 race and the majority of people just ignore it. The engines sound like lawnmowers with none of the F1 scream or the scary growl of sportscars.

Formula Ireland - 45 year old advertising execs getting their jollies beating teenagers. I'll certainly hand over my money to support you in your 'big fish, small pond' series. Not


Drivers:
Mansell: The man had talent in spades but the whole 'Mansellmania', 'Last night of the proms' stuff drove me away.
Prost: He always struck me as a shifty bugger - too ready with the plausible excuse.
Coulthard: Just because. The litany of excuses as to why he failed miserably yet again. "Well, you see, I was driving along, in 8th place, with Michael Schumacher lulled into a false sense of security by allowing him a half a lap lead, when a sudden shift in the space-time continuum caused the entire track to shift several metres to the left - placing me in the barriers." AAAAAAARGH!

#6 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 13:51

Formula Ireland - 45 year old advertising execs getting their jollies beating teenagers. I'll certainly hand over my money to support you in your 'big fish, small pond' series. Not


The real shame is that Ireland used to have a great FFord scene, and even into the FOpel days there was a cracking single seater scene. And tintops used to be great there before all this RT2000 nonesense!

(Actually, another series I have a rational loathing of - T-Cars, the same chassis as the Irish RT2000s but driven in Britain by Formula Dad teenagers - qv.).

#7 Mallory Dan

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 14:06

Excellent thread, just right for letting others know about our irrational dislikes. Agree with most of the above, especially re Coulthard/modern Ferrari/Jordan/Stewart in the early 70s. At that time I went right off Emmo, for leaving JPS, though now admire him. Later I took against Hunt/Mclaren for cheating in 76, Gerry Marshall for being too good, and usually beating Whiting, the French in F2, Ralt RT3s, Reynards in F3000, VDs in FF.

Common aspect is, I suspect, always rooting for the underdog.Dare I say the losers in life, maybe thats a bit too profound for this ! For this reason I had changing loyalties too, eg against March and drivers in F2/FAt/F3 most of the time, but for them when they were getting duffed up by the Frogs or the RT3s. Like much in life I love variety in things, and hate monopolies, or too much dominance by any one team, driver, club.

#8 Racer.Demon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 14:46

Originally posted by petefenelon
These days I have perfectly rational and justifiable prejudices against Herrman Tilke, the Indy Racing League, Grand-Am (and particularly Daytona Prototypes), the V6 FRenault, the FIA's tolerance of Toyota, one-make racing, Silverstone.... the list goes on ;)


Hey, that's my list! :lol:

But can I turn this around? I find that as a kid I favoured drivers and teams that were (and are) commonly regarded as not being very sympathique (for want of a better English word), i.e. Lauda and Ferrari, Brabham and Piquet, etc., even when they were winning, so the underdog theory doesn't apply.

I agree with Ian - there is no logical explanation, whereas there are lots of logical explanations as to why I should support teams like McLaren or Williams instead. They are "real racers" and "self-made men", and share a "passion for racing" and an "honest approach to team orders", etc.

Anyone care to explain why I always take sides with the bad guys? Is it something that happened in my youth?;)

#9 BRG

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 14:51

Ooooh – it’s catharsis time! Let’s get those irrational dislikes out in the open!

Ferrari – I should love them, like I love Italy and the Italians generally, but I don’t. I should love them for sticking to red painted cars, for having brio and dash, for being the soul of motor racing. But I don’t, and it’s nothing to do with Schumacher, my antipathy for Ferrari goes right back to the 1960s. Maybe it’s because I am a Porsche fan at heart?

Alan Jones – can’t stick him, never could, a nasty, mouthy so-&-so. And it was reinforced when he deliberately pushed Piquet into the wall in Montreal. Ugh.

Megastar drivers with no sporting ethics – often their names start with an “S”. You can probably think of the ones that I mean.

Patrick Head – I know that he is (was?) a fine engineer but he shouldn’t be allowed within 100 miles of any job with a man-management element.

Turbo-charged engines – sound like a strangulated fart and are fuelled by shredded currency notes. The worst thing to ever happen to motor-sport!

Tyre wars – WHY? Who on earth cares even the slightest bit about which round lump of rubber and steel is better? And it ruins the sport.

One make series promoted by the manufacturer as a marketing ploy and then dropped after a couple of years when they lose interest, leaving a load of racers high and dry – I don’t mind competitor-led one make series, like FFord, or the Caterham and TVR series, but please no more Vectras, or Formula BMW or the other PR and advertising series.


There’s probably lots more, but that’s enough bile for now…

#10 Barry Lake

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:10

As I read through this thread, I can't help thinking that this is one that Jonathon Palmer should be reading - especially references to one-make racing, variety, underdogs...

#11 Macca

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:14

Well, leaving aside rational dislikes with logical reasons..............

Jim Clark and Lotus when I first got interested in 1962 aged 6 - because he was battling with Graham hill and BRM (but since 1968....................what a loss)

Jackie Stewart......first as the too-good apprentice to NGH, then as his rival, then............I just disliked him, and liked whoever was his rival at the time: Rindt, then Fittipaldi, then Ronnie.

Ferrari from when they started winning until they stopped winning (1974-1991) and since Team MS started winning again (but I love the old ones)

Piquet.

Ronspeak.

Brabham in the BCE era (and Piquet).

Porsche - too Teutonic and efficient, won too much.

Mercedes in WSC - ditto.

Adrian Reynard.


That'll do for now, until my gorge subsides.


Paul

#12 RTH

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:21

Blimey Ian, - that could have been me speaking word for word .

#13 ian senior

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:30

More heresy. Another driver I disliked very much indeed was Chris Amon. Why? Well, because he drove for Ferrari, went to March and then to Matra, another team for whom I had no time whatsoever (because Stewart used to drive a Matra...). This made him Very Bad News indeed in my eyes, although again of course I knew he was good. When I grew up just a little bit I swallowed my prejudices and accepted that he was a truly, madly, deeply fantastic driver. Especially when he went to Ensign.

#14 panzani

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:46

Irrational:
Alain Prost, I do not know why, but the thread is about "not knowing why", isn't it? He is a 4-title winner after all...
That German, he is a 6-title winner after all, I know...

Between Rational and Irrational:
That German, the Team he owes, his boring little brother...

Rational [IMHO]:
Parades instead of races...
Tyre war instead of races...
Tilke circuits instead of races...
Money makes the world go round instead of races...
RC Polls, specially the "who's better, my dad or yours?" ones.
That German again, even though he is a 6-title winner...

#15 bill moffat

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:50

Stewart again I'm afraid. At the time his safety crusade seemed to make him unpopular and I guess we all joined the flock. Real racing drivers didn't want seat belts or roll bars that stretched to anywhere near helmet height. As for onboard extinguishers and spanners taped to the steering wheel..what a poofter. So the joke became "how do you find Jackie's house ? Fly to Geneva airport and then just follow the Armco..."

Happily JYS ignored all the flak and IMHO has done a great deal for F1 ever since. I admire him enormously. Oh, and as a pubescent schoolboy I thought Helen was rather wonderful (sorry)..

#16 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:53

Originally posted by BRG
Ooooh – it’s catharsis time! Let’s get those irrational dislikes out in the open!

Ferrari – I should love them, like I love Italy and the Italians generally, but I don’t. I should love them for sticking to red painted cars, for having brio and dash, for being the soul of motor racing. But I don’t, and it’s nothing to do with Schumacher, my antipathy for Ferrari goes right back to the 1960s. Maybe it’s because I am a Porsche fan at heart?

Alan Jones – can’t stick him, never could, a nasty, mouthy so-&-so. And it was reinforced when he deliberately pushed Piquet into the wall in Montreal. Ugh.

Megastar drivers with no sporting ethics – often their names start with an “S”. You can probably think of the ones that I mean.

Patrick Head – I know that he is (was?) a fine engineer but he shouldn’t be allowed within 100 miles of any job with a man-management element.

Turbo-charged engines – sound like a strangulated fart and are fuelled by shredded currency notes. The worst thing to ever happen to motor-sport!

Tyre wars – WHY? Who on earth cares even the slightest bit about which round lump of rubber and steel is better? And it ruins the sport.

One make series promoted by the manufacturer as a marketing ploy and then dropped after a couple of years when they lose interest, leaving a load of racers high and dry – I don’t mind competitor-led one make series, like FFord, or the Caterham and TVR series, but please no more Vectras, or Formula BMW or the other PR and advertising series.


There’s probably lots more, but that’s enough bile for now…


Ferrari in sports cars - still turns me on. Old Ferrari F1s - still turn me on. Anything post-643 leaves me stone cold, and once they turned orange they're actively repulsive.

Porsche - I'm afraid the only 911 that gives me any kind of buzz was "Moby Dick"; even the 911GT1 didn't really do much for me. But 904s, 908s, 917s, 956/962s - oh yes!

Frank and Patrick - and Ron - heroes. Jonesey - another hero and Williams are still missing him.

Guy Ligier - unpleasant, splenetic wrist-artist. Never liked him.

The current breed of F1 cars - hell, let's list ALL the things wrong with them;

- traction control
- bargeboards
- semi-auto boxes
- too much downforce, by about 75%
- the restriction to V10s only
- grooved tyres
- the plank
- the fact that they look like overgrown F3s, little ugly narrow cars
- where's the bloody number?

#17 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 15:55

Pete's Irrational Dislikes, vol. 95:

Nigel Roebuck's contemporary post-Prost F1 journalism. (If he hates modern F1 so much, he should damn well stop writing about it and concentrate on history, which he loves. Come and join us here, Nigel - talk about the days when men were men and liked a ciggy before/during the race!)

Bill Boddy articles that just list screeds of Brooklands handicap race results.

Paul Fearnley's endless stream of tests of back-of-the-grid Cosworth/Hewland kit cars.

F1 Magazine and F1 Racing. In their entirety.

Haymarket Haymarket Haymarket Haymarket.

Christopher Hilton books that just regurgitate press releases and appear to have been produced without having met his subjects - he is capable of much better, but seems unwilling to try to get inside the modern F1 non-personality.

#18 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 16:02

Originally posted by Macca

Adrian Reynard.

Paul


An absolute hero of mine until he got involved in the BAR fracas (add Pollock-era BAR to my list of entirely rational dislikes - Team Bullsh*t, the people that destroyed Tyrrell)

But when the BAR guys started moaning about Adrian being too high and mighty to actually get involved in trying to sort out their awful early cars, I was put in mind of the early 80s, when Adrian himself was victim of that kind of thing - remember when he was trying to turn RAM's heavy, floppy Williams clone March into a vaguely competitive racing car, with no help from Robin Herd? - you'd think he would've learned his lesson then, wouldn't you?;)

Rick Gorne - a rogue but not a villain, I'd say, and certainly an admirable rogue. First guy to really turn selling racing cars into a proper business rather than just a means of furthering his own or his marque's racing career.

#19 ian senior

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 16:05

Originally posted by bill moffat
[

Happily JYS ignored all the flak and IMHO has done a great deal for F1 ever since. I admire him enormously. Oh, and as a pubescent schoolboy I thought Helen was rather wonderful (sorry).. [/B]


Yes, and that was another good reason why I disliked JYS - he had Helen,and I didn't.

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#20 Racer.Demon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 16:08

Originally posted by petefenelon
Pete's Irrational Dislikes, vol. 95:

Nigel Roebuck's contemporary post-Prost F1 journalism. (If he hates modern F1 so much, he should damn well stop writing about it and concentrate on history, which he loves. Come and join us here, Nigel - talk about the days when men were men and liked a ciggy before/during the race!)

Bill Boddy articles that just list screeds of Brooklands handicap race results.

Paul Fearnley's endless stream of tests of back-of-the-grid Cosworth/Hewland kit cars.

F1 Magazine and F1 Racing. In their entirety.

Haymarket Haymarket Haymarket Haymarket.

Christopher Hilton books that just regurgitate press releases and appear to have been produced without having met his subjects - he is capable of much better, but seems unwilling to try to get inside the modern F1 non-personality.


Those are all quite rational to me. :lol:

So, now who will be the first to come out and be quoted on having an irrational admiration for "that German"? Now that would be real heresy... ;)

#21 Coogar

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 16:36

Fred....I'm with you !
We still have FF1600 at the northern end of this island - and it still works........
Seems to me that we all detest is the packaging surrounding what used to be an organic sport, practised by those who could (and would) afford it with no thought of recompense.
There's something very depressing about hearing the latest spotty 'erbert bleating that he needs to get a sponsor before he has even set his scrofulous bottom in any kind of car.......It just doesn't seem to occur to anybody that they might have to actually buy one......
God....I remember the days when they were impossible to buy. You had to actually build something if you wanted to go racing............
Maybe it's unrealistic to suppose that in this corporate age, people could continue to operate in the haphazard fashion of the fifties and early sixties, just as it's impossible to imagine the Rolling Stones playing in the pub down the road. It's a pity, but that's the way the world has gone, in all sorts of ways.
But.....We had punk and alternative comedians, as a reaction to glossy packaging. Maybe it's time for alternative motor racing ?
Or do the 750MC do that already ?

#22 jph

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 17:50

[QUOTE]Pete's Irrational Dislikes, vol. 95:[/ QUOTE]


Pete, as usual I find myself agreeing with the vast majority of what you say and there's not a lot I would add - though I probably don't have quite the same disregard for Roebuck and Haymarket, yet I agree with your sentiments on Boddy and Fearnley. For what it's worth:

Irrational dislikes (i.e. ones I have now grown out of): Stewart, Fittipaldi, Matra, Porsche.

Entirely rational and justified dislikes: Ferrari post-c.1990 (including most of the people who drive road-going ones); whatmoseleyandecclestonehavedonetomotorracing; one-make racing other than Minis; the way paying spectators are treated at most major race meetings (except, of course, Goodwood); Murray Walker doing anything other than commentating on TV; the cult of celebrity which now dominates F1, fuelled by manufacturers and popular media; team regalia.

To maintain a sense of balance, those that can (or could) do no wrong include: BRM; Goodwood; Rootes Group products in racing and rallying; Jim Clark; David Purley; Ferrari 512S; Chevron sports cars.

Let’s hope there aren’t any psychoanalysts reading this thread.

#23 SEdward

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 17:51

Anyone and anything that wins too much and too often.

Didn't like Stewart in 69, didn't like Rindt in 70, the Fittipaldi/JPS combo really wound me up when they won everything in sight, Lauda and Ferrari in 75, and so on... More recent examples hardly need mentioning.

Porsche, for just about as long as I can remember.

These people, whose talent we all respect, making racing as about exciting as watching water evaporate.

Apart from that, my pet dislikes include Maaaaaansell (great in the car, otherwise insufferable) and his army of flag-waving, Sun-reading and usually drunk fans and Senna, because he annoyed me with all that "touched by the hand of God" nonsense and was occasionally a dirty driver.

Edward.

#24 dretceterini

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 17:54

The FIA for destroying international sportscar racing and making everything about F1..

#25 Racer.Demon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 17:59

There's a pattern developing here, with many of the same (category of) characters being collectively liked or disliked.

Ian's dislike of Amon is interesting because it goes against the "flow" of TNF, but how many of you would say the same of other drivers or team owners that are usually seen as "racers" and "honest, decent blokes", "with a love for the sport"?

#26 jph

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:05

Apart from that, my pet dislikes include Maaaaaansell (great in the car, otherwise insufferable) and his army of flag-waving, Sun-reading and usually drunk fans and Senna, because he annoyed me with all that "touched by the hand of God" nonsense and was occasionally a dirty driver .



You're absolutely right, I'd almost forgotten my dislike of Mansell as a person. He's one of only very few people (Murray Walker is another, I'm afraid) whom I held in lower regard after reading his autobiography than I had done beforehand.

#27 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:08

Minor dislike but it really gets on my nerves....

The recent trend for any supplier, however trivial, to a team to be regarded as a "partner".

Scrotum-Wartburg are pleased to announce that Andrex are their chosen winnit-removal and klingon-cleansing partner for the 2004 season. Nigel Tufnel, Director of Meaningless Job Titles at Andrex said 'F1 is an environment in which the driver's "seat of the pants" feeling is vital - so we're proud to enter into an ongoing synergistic relationship in which we will provide Scrotum-Wartburg with state of the art cleft-cleansing technology". David St Hubbins, Scrotum's VP of Very Small Partner Marketing, said "We look forward to workign with Andrex - F1 contains more sh*t per unit area than any other racing formula, and we hope to help them advance their toilet paper technology".


Translation: the truckie bought four packs of bog-roll at a motorway service area on the way down to the race.

#28 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:10

Originally posted by jph


You're absolutely right, I'd almost forgotten my dislike of Mansell as a person. He's one of only very few people (Murray Walker is another, I'm afraid) whom I held in lower regard after reading his autobiography than I had done beforehand.


Yes, but remember who ghosted Mansell's autobiography.

Onanism isn't a sin - it's ITV F1 commentary.

#29 Leif Snellman

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:21

Well,

To pick a few:

Team Williams
Renault (the old team, not the new one!)
Alan Jones
Jonathan Palmer (don't ask me why cause I really got no idea)
Erja Häkkinen
Daimler-Benz turning into Daimler-Chrysler
Alan Henry

Then we have Alain Prost, David Coulthard and Ron Dennis but to me that's not "unfounded prejudices" anymore but rational thinking! ;)

#30 SEdward

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:24

Another one is Rupert Keegan. He deliberately punted off Bruno Giacomelli at the start of the last round of the 1976 British F3 championship at Thruxton, because he knew that he was going to lose. Young Bruno was one of my heroes at the time (Stephen South was another).

Keegan then dawdled around at the tail end of the F1 peloton for a season or two in a Hesketh with a half-nude girly painted on the side as if to prove to everyone just how talentless he really was.

Edward.

#31 2F-001

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:24

Despite all attempts to give the opposite impression, irrationality really is my bag.

So...
McLaren, post-Yardley.
McLaren, post-Emerson.
McLaren, post- Teddy Mayer.
McLaren, since Dennis.
Ron Dennis.
Ronspeak.
(Having said that, I've know one or two folk who've worked there, and apparently he's a pretty fine employer - supportive of and 'loyal' to (if that's the right word) his staff, understanding their problems and accommodating of their difficulties. I just wish he wouldn't talk such gob5hi*e in public).

John Surtees (for 'rubbishing' a Chaparral - although through TNF I'm a little more educated now, and have huge respect for him. I wouldn't mind being a bit 'difficult' if I could achieve what he has...)

Ralt RT3s - someone said? Well, no: I loved them when there was only a handful of 'em. And what a pretty car!

Formula Renault.

The Brabham fan-car.

The Penske-Porsche 917-10s (don't understand this, at least it was something new - but they were beating lovely orange McLarens - even though the Macs had spoiled the series somewhat - and even though I became a huge fan of Mark Donohue - and I adore the 917-30. Just how irrational can you be?? Mind you, the 917-10 was damn ugly... and they killed the series, never mind spoiled it...)

The Porche works team in Group C. And Sauber too (but that's 'cos they were connected to Merc).

All things Mansell (No, no, that's rational...)

Senna.

Murray Walker.

BTCC; that SEAT challenge thing; Clios; Fiesta Challenge; Zip Formula; most one-make stuff except Caterham.

Brands Hatch commentator, Brian Jones. (No, that's rational too. He's embarrassingly, cringe-inducingly awful at it, despite his obvious passion and enthusiasm.)

BAR.

David Richards. (All that dosh and he can't afford a decent razor or a modicum of grooming.)

Ralf Schumacher.

J.Y.S. - although, like others here, I'm almost ashamed to say it - and again, I have huge respect and a much-mellowed attitude now.

#32 David McKinney

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:36

Interesting to see Brian Jones's name crop up
I'm with Tony on that one, but every time I voice a similar opinion to Brands regulars they look at me as if I'm mad. Takes all sorts, I guess :lol:

#33 Tim Murray

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:50

My chief totally irrational dislike must be McLaren. I suppose it started after the dramatic turn around - everything was great when it was Bruce, Denny, and those gorgeous orange M7As and the CanAm cars. Then Bruce died and Edward Everett Mayer ( :mad: ) took over. Not long after that Marlboro arrived . . .

(Marlboro! How I detest Marlboro. I dislike most (no, all) of the cigarette sponsors, but Marlboro take the biscuit. I still cringe whenever I hear the theme to The Magnificent Seven, having had to listen to it once every two minutes, hour after hour, as a backing to the Marlboro adverts played over the PA at Silverstone in the '70s and '80s.)

Back to McLaren. The wretched Mayer, having (among other iniquities) almost destroyed Tambay's career, was eventually ousted by Ron and Co. Very little improvement as far as I'm concerned. I respected the driving abilities of Senna and Prost, but as for liking them - no way!

Then those live wires Mika and DC arrived . . .


(I wrote most of this before seeing 2F-001's post - nice one Tony!)

#34 Buford

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:51

For me it was Senna. I thought he was way too good a driver to employ the "dirty" tactics he often did, and which in my mind taught a whole generation of young drivers to run into each other rather than respect each other's space (at the bare minimum amount).

#35 Criceto

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 18:56

It's bullies that do it to me. Sluggers, both on track and off.

Like a certain McLaren driver that walloped Eddie Irvine at Suzuka one time. I got published on Autosport's letters page the following week, I was so incenced.

Nicolas Minassian - he once spent a happy few minutes petulantly lobbing bits of gravel trap at a privateer Formula 3 driver at Thruxton and I have never, ever forgiven him for it.

Martin Schanche, "Mr Rallycross" so concerned for the sport that he once chose to stop a race he had retired from by standing in the middle of the racing line the next time the pack came round.

Nelson Piquet - ask Eliseo Salazar.

hmmm.... who else?

Michael Andretti. Hailing from Nazareth and the son of a legendary father does not necessarily equal the second coming as far as I'm concerned.

BAR - for all the "they killed the Tyrrells" reasons already mentioned.

Lotus 72 - for not being the Tyrrell 006 (I've grown out of that one now)

Jean-Marie Balestre. I think Max Mosley was an improvement but I'm not totally sure.

#36 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:01

> Zip Formula

God - one-make Formula Dad. Pity, I like what I've seen of the Hines family.
I think the Jordan tie-in that was mooted at one point put me off this, as well as the fact that it's a grotesque car.


#37 Criceto

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:04

Oh, one other hate, and I don't honestly think it's irrational.

Grid girls, pit popsies, sponsors' dollies, call them what you will...

Look, I have no problem with women at race tracks, but I prefer them to be Kay Petre, Ellen Lohr, Pat Moss, Divina Galica, Trisha Pilkington, Gabriel Konig, Jutta Kleinschmidt... need I go on?

#38 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:21

Good thread... :clap:

Now I sit here and start reminiscing.

Ayrton Senna da Silva - I was driving Go-Kart while he was (no not even remotely close to be in the area of the classes that he did). And big lost Danish talent Gert Munkholm were racing against him for a small team, where I was an occasional mechanic. Anyone beating Gert were in my eyes "the enemy". Once Ayrton Senna da Silva became Ayrton Senna, he was obviously EXTREMELY talented, and arguably the best ever to race a F1 car. I however did not really care for him.

Nelson Piquet - Never liked him.

James Hunt - Never liked him

Derek Warwick – Personal “pet hate driver”, in my mind he cost Marc Surer (one of my all time favourite drivers) a podium in Monaco 1983, and since then all he did was wrong in my book. I “loved” that he was blocked by Senna, and that he basically never really amounted to anything in F1.

Mansell – Just could not stomach his style, or rather as I saw it lag of style.

:cool:

#39 Doug Nye

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:21

One for 'the older woman' then, eh - Criceto?

Irrational detestations - I have a few - but not too few to mention - posers without background (as opposed to we properly qualified posers) - authority figures without responsibility or understanding - politicians of all hues - politicians - umm politicians - politicians - politicians - and politicians - frauds - politicians - women publishers who cite 'professionalism' and 'time-management' above 'knowledge', 'enthusiasm' and 'quality' - politicians - politicians - politicians - oh yes, and politicians - and those who prey on others' frailty -

DCN

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#40 2F-001

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:22

I could probably be less condemnatory of grid girls, pit popsies or sponsors' dollies if I had one of my own... although, as with Criceto, Kay Petre would have done very nicely, thank you.

But another that bugs me (and I don't think this is irrational at all - so rather O/T)...
all these ridiculously over-complicated crash-helmet liveries that all look the same and all have a pane of that graduated-tint waffle patter on the crown... ugh!

What happened to the clean, heraldic simplicity of crash helmets in the seventies?
If you see even a tiny pic. of a race start or early-stage (sometimes even in black and white) you can pick out most of the drivers, in part because of their helmet design - heck they were so distinctive you can describe tham from memory!

I think drivers should have to register their colours like the silks in horse racing, to make sure they are unique and distinctive from a distance... and no signwriting or advertising on them!
Some chance... :)


Wholly off topic, but on the theme of politicians - Govt. has just come within 5 votes of a defeat in the Commons...

#41 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:40

If you see even a tiny pic. of a race start or early-stage (sometimes even in black and white) you can pick out most of the drivers, in part because of their helmet design - heck they were so distinctive you can describe tham from memory!


Isn't there a church somewhere in London where all the clowns deposit eggs painted with their face-paint? - that's about how I feel about modern helmet designs.

#42 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:43

Originally posted by Criceto


Look, I have no problem with women at race tracks, but I prefer them to be Kay Petre, Ellen Lohr, Pat Moss, Divina Galica, Trisha Pilkington, Gabriel Konig, Jutta Kleinschmidt... need I go on?


When Emma and I were in Miami last year for some reason the correct name of the Julia Tuttle Causeway (one of the links between Miami Beach and Miami proper) never stuck in our heads - we knew what we meant when we called it the Jutta Kleinschmidt Causeway even if nobody else did ;)

#43 David Lawson

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 19:59

Brian Jones . I'm another poster that can't stand Brian Jones, he only has to say "Good morning everybody" as they switch the PA on at Brands Hatch and I'm off to the Kentagon or Hailwoods for my breakfast.

Ferrari . The post 1993 incarnation of the team has no connection with or relevance to the previous history of the team.

Nigel Roebuck . I respect the man and his writing but why does every anecdote have to include a reference to Gilles Villeneuve, Keke Rosberg or Mario Andretti.

Jaguar F1 Team . For slagging off everything Stewart Racing accomplished before the buy out and then lurching from one disaster to another.

Marketing Hype . The media which promotes everyone and anybody that parks their backside in the seat of an F1 for a five lap winter test as the "Next Schumacher".

Bernie Ecclestone . For creating the monster that is F1 from the once wonderful Grand Prix Championship.

Journalists and Commentators . Those guilty of claiming a driver's "mesmeric performance" when they've managed to put together a couple of quick laps just before their last fuel stop.

I better stop before my blood pressure climbs any higher.

David

#44 Doug Nye

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 20:09

...and bus drivers, definitely bus drivers ... and Australian sports commentators (no, maybe not - that would be completely rational) ... as would BBC TV 'motoring' programmes (and the ordure that fronts them)....

DCN

#45 RTH

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 20:16

The whole of the ITV F1 presentation team.

#46 petefenelon

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 20:28

Originally posted by Doug Nye
...and bus drivers, definitely bus drivers ... and Australian sports commentators (no, maybe not - that would be completely rational) ... as would BBC TV 'motoring' programmes (and the ordure that fronts them)....

DCN


Ah, you saw the chap who tried to charge me a quid for a ten-bob fare this morning, and the other fatherless gentleman who drove past me while I was 20 yards from the bus stop with a case of wine this evening......

FirstYork, we love ya. Really.

#47 JohnS

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 20:51

Silverstone - an overpriced dump

Ferrari (post-Alesi) - soul-less, and I never thought I'd say that

Modern helmet designs - they're almost all just a messy mix of red and blue

Senna - all that spiritual crap

Nigel Roebuck and his constant moaning about the government/state of the country - it's like reading the Daily Mail

James Allen - obviously

F1 Racing - "mega"

__

John

#48 marat

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 20:59

Jackie Stewart (his choice against the V12 Matra)
Jacky Ickx (he killed the Le Mans start)
Alain Prost (too good playing the victim).

#49 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 21:15

Originally posted by dretceterini
The FIA for destroying international sportscar racing and making everything about F1..


And who can we blame for killing sprint-type Sports Car racing?

Can-Am etc...

I always hated FF because it took a very mundane power unit, kept it mundane, and turned it into a major worldwide promotion for the mundane power units. After all, the Renault 16TS engine was available, had more grunt and reliability and weighed a pile less...

The effort that went into keeping FF engines together always staggered me.

#50 VAR1016

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 21:39

[i]Wholly off topic, but on the theme of politicians - Govt. has just come within 5 votes of a defeat in the Commons... [/B]

Oh God! Do you mean to say they won? (It's not about the issue, it's about them winning of course).

I hate the govt.

Could never stand Ayrton Senna - pompous, priggish and dirty in my view.

People who pronounce his name "Ay-air-ton"

Murray Walker - especially when he says "The late, GREAT Ay-air-ton Senna!!!!"

E.J. - big mouth and boring professional Irishman - yawn.

All that crappy electronic drum music that thumps through ITV's coverage.

Any music in any motor-racing programme.

Jim "oily" Rosenthal; Mark Blundell irritates me too.

Brian Jones ?? Yee aaarrrgghhh - although at least he can speak English.

The FIA

The V-10 rule - utter stupidity

Champagne spraying - just going through the motions: "AND NOW.... THE CHAMPAGNE!!!!!!"

Ugh