149 replies to this topic

[Chevy II Nova]

Supposed to be run for the first time on the 9th at Misano, Italy. No launch scheduled, maybe a low-key official invieling in Australia. Should be PS02/3 monococque once more. List of expected differences:

- Revised suspension geometry and weight distrobution
- Arrows-type front wing, but retaining a single keel
- Ferrari-esque sidepods and flip-ups. The only other team using the 3-tier ramps on the sidepods was Williams, and they do no longer. Time to change
- Renault-esque RWEP's that continue the notch down the length, making a slit
- Should be getting later spec Bridgestones as they are looker for more testing miles
- Updated CR3 that will last 700km and put out 20cv more

Hopefully she has seen the wind tunnel some. I assume if we have the money to test we should have the money to do that a bit as well.

Any Italians have info from Italian publications? Thats where the best info usually comes from.

[glorius&victorius]

and it will be 6 seconds slower than the slowest car on the grid. Minardi (nowadays) is a joke and a disgrace to Formula One, so is its team owner!

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

Minardi has had and still has my sympathy, I never really figured out why though...

Bartus(who thinks the differance with the Jordans will be +2s and the rest of the field will make the Minardi drivers look like Philippe Adams in his best days)

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
and it will be 6 seconds slower than the slowest car on the grid. Minardi (nowadays) is a joke and a disgrace to Formula One, so is its team owner!

Nowhere near as much of a joke and a disgrace you are to Formula One enthusiasts.

[coyoteBR]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
and it will be 6 seconds slower than the slowest car on the grid. Minardi (nowadays) is a joke and a disgrace to Formula One, so is its team owner!

Respect the privateers. They have more passion and care for the sport on a single nail thatn the big car companies have in their whole factories.

[Chevy II Nova]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
Nowhere near as much of a joke and a disgrace you are to Formula One enthusiasts.

Well said.

No need for that kind of post in here.

Anyhow, the PS03 was fundamentally not a bad car. However due to Justin Wilson's size, things were shifted and that had a very negative effect on the weight distrobution. Add on that we switched to Bridgestones after the car was built and you have... well, no points.

Just by fixing those two things the PS04B can be much faster than the PS03.

[Riker!]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
and it will be 6 seconds slower than the slowest car on the grid. Minardi (nowadays) is a joke and a disgrace to Formula One, so is its team owner!

Wow what an intelligent post, PLEASE SIR CAN WE HAVE SOME MORE!!

6 seconds slower than the slowest car, what crack are you smoking. The PS04 hybrid was easily faster than there PS03 and they didnt even do much testing with it.

Im hoping Minardi can put in a few surprises this year. If I was a Billionaire like Bill Gates id be laying some of my cash down into one team only.............. FORZA MINDARI!!!!!!!!!!!

[A3]

Originally posted by Chevy II Nova

No need for that kind of post in here.

And that's coming from you?

glorius&victorius , it's ok to talk like that at the Forzaminardi forums, you'll fit right in. Just in stead of bashing Minardi, bash Jos and they'll love you.

Oh and always say "we" when talking aout Minardi.

[The Vulcan]

For what its worth, I hope the Minardi team does well and score some points - as minnows they deserve some encouragement for filling the grid and having the neutrals something to cheer about!!

[firstlap]

Originally posted by Chevy II Nova
Supposed to be run for the first time on the 9th at Misano, Italy. No launch scheduled, maybe a low-key official invieling in Australia. Should be PS02/3 monococque once more. List of expected differences:

- Revised suspension geometry and weight distrobution
- Arrows-type front wing, but retaining a single keel
- Ferrari-esque sidepods and flip-ups. The only other team using the 3-tier ramps on the sidepods was Williams, and they do no longer. Time to change
- Renault-esque RWEP's that continue the notch down the length, making a slit
- Should be getting later spec Bridgestones as they are looker for more testing miles
- Updated CR3 that will last 700km and put out 20cv more

Hopefully she has seen the wind tunnel some. I assume if we have the money to test we should have the money to do that a bit as well.

Any Italians have info from Italian publications? Thats where the best info usually comes from.

a minardi spokesperson said:

"European Minardi has not yet finalized the date/location for its official 2004 car Launch.

However, the team will definitely test the new PS04-b at the Misano circuit on Feb. 10-11-12.
Then, from Feb. 17 to 19 the European Minardi PS04-b will attend the FOM testing session at the Imola circuit.

The official designation of the European Minardi car that will dispute the 2004 FIA F1 World championship is PS04-b, which is an evolution of the previous European Minardi PS03 chassis.

Just so you understand the difference, the chassis which derived from the former Arrows A23 was called PS04 and was used during a testing session in Vallelunga, last winter. The team will not use this chassis any more."

( source: http://www.f1welt.co...earch=&begriff= )

[clown]

YES!!!!! Take that Arrows chassis

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

I suppose they do not own that chassis so they can not use it either...

Bartus(who has heart that a Dutch "trustworthy" company still owns that hardware)

[HSJ]

Originally posted by coyoteBR


Respect the privateers. They have more passion and care for the sport on a single nail thatn the big car companies have in their whole factories.

Ridiculous.

1) How would YOU know that?
2) How would you PROVE that?
3) Just because one is called something (e.g. a manufacturer) and another one isn't, doesn't mean there's a fundamental difference.

I really think it utterly stupid to put some teams like Minardi on some freaking pedestal based on some wild assumptions/fantasies.

[A3]

Originally posted by clown
YES!!!!! Take that Arrows chassis

"The team will not use this chassis any more."

[lustigson]

CR-3? Is Minardi competing with the Cosworth CR-3? That's Jaguar's 2001 engine?! I thought Minardi would be racing the (updated to 2004-regulations) CR-5... :

[MrForza]

glorius&victorius , it's ok to talk like that at the Forzaminardi forums, you'll fit right in.

so why do you post there then??

and it will be 6 seconds slower than the slowest car on the grid. Minardi (nowadays) is a joke and a disgrace to Formula One, so is its team owner!

so when was the last time Ron or Jean bought you lunch?

Bartus(who has heart that a Dutch "trustworthy" company still owns that hardware)

so let's hope MP enjoys his three year old car that will get him nowhere maybe he can put jos in and say brooom brooom on sunday afternoons...

Oh and always say "we" when talking aout Minardi.

That's because we're so few. we always know who is meant by we


jeezzz and people tell me my forum is weird...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by HSJ
I really think it utterly stupid to put some teams like Minardi on some freaking pedestal based on some wild assumptions/fantasies.

You think the guys at Minardi are there to make money? They're not even there to win. You have to respect the fact they still go as hard as they are able to for now real reason than its there to be done. I think driving for Minardi would be awesome (yet probably frustrating). It's almost a noble cause.

[Chevy II Nova]

Originally posted by firstlap


a minardi spokesperson said:

"European Minardi has not yet finalized the date/location for its official 2004 car Launch.

However, the team will definitely test the new PS04-b at the Misano circuit on Feb. 10-11-12.
Then, from Feb. 17 to 19 the European Minardi PS04-b will attend the FOM testing session at the Imola circuit.

The official designation of the European Minardi car that will dispute the 2004 FIA F1 World championship is PS04-b, which is an evolution of the previous European Minardi PS03 chassis.

Just so you understand the difference, the chassis which derived from the former Arrows A23 was called PS04 and was used during a testing session in Vallelunga, last winter. The team will not use this chassis any more."

( source: http://www.f1welt.co...earch=&begriff= )

Thank you very much. It seems that a majority of information released by Minardi is passed over by major news outlets.

Bartus: I understand that those cars are Minardi property. I doubt they would have been able to test with it at Vallelunga if they weren't.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
and it will be 6 seconds slower than the slowest car on the grid. Minardi (nowadays) is a joke and a disgrace to Formula One, so is its team owner!

Minardi is usually 1.5 seconds slower than the average formula 1 team, that's a fact.

[Wuzak]

Originally posted by maclaren


Minardi is usually 1.5 seconds slower than the average formula 1 team, that's a fact.

And have be known to be ahead of the likes of Jaguar and Toyota on occasion.

[Chevy II Nova]

Indeed. Even with last year's off-balance chassis we gave Toyota and Jag a run for their money at Monaco.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You didnt do anything. Minardi however, only got as close as 1.2 seconds to Panis who was the first non-Minardi car. Da Matta was 2 seconds up the road. The Jags were 1.6 and 2.4 seconds quicker. Now granted 3.4 seconds off pole for a Minardi is really nice, but lets not delude ourselves they were fighting for their spot on the grid that weekend.

[GhostR]

Ross ... I think you're forgetting the actual race

[Chevy II Nova]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You didnt do anything. Minardi however, only got as close as 1.2 seconds to Panis who was the first non-Minardi car. Da Matta was 2 seconds up the road. The Jags were 1.6 and 2.4 seconds quicker. Now granted 3.4 seconds off pole for a Minardi is really nice, but lets not delude ourselves they were fighting for their spot on the grid that weekend.

I support the team and it feels natural to say "we" when refering to the team. If it offends you, try the ignore button.

[Dudley]

It's common practice in the UK regarding football teams.

--

The short version of Minardis speed is that while they're 3.5 seconds off and look bad sometimes now, even as close as 10 years ago that would have beaten a lot of other cars.

[zfh10]

I'll start having sympathy for Minardi, and giving them well-wishes, as soon as their team principal sells up and goes back to being a second-hand car salesman. The man couldn't organise an empty drawer.

[Chevy II Nova]

If we wanted to talk about how everyone viewed Minardi we would be doing it in a topic about the team. This one if about the PS04B.

[pluto]

MInardi will use the 72 degrees Cosworth engine, lowered at 16800 revs for no more than 800cv. 100 less than the majority of rival teams. The project of the new car is completed but it is not sure it will see the light this season. "for the european season we will surely have some updatings, but I don't think that for Imola we will have a new car. We have to consider that in 2005 will enter a new regulation on crash-test very hard on the chassis" said Minardi (Autosprint)

[Chevy II Nova]

Hmm.. maybe something is lost in the translation here but isn't that talking about the 2005 car? I think what they mean is that they have a new car on paper but it won't be ready until the 2005 season..

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Chevy II Nova


I support the team and it feels natural to say "we" when refering to the team. If it offends you, try the ignore button.

It feels natural if you're trying to show off. It'd be more tolerable if you knew 1% of what you thought you did.

[UPRC]

As usual, sounds good on paper but...

Well, I hope Minardi scores a few points this season. Even 1 will make me smile.

[glorius&victorius]

Respecting privateers, no problem with that.

What Minardi does is bringing down the average of the whole grid. Drop Minardi, get the 3 car per team rule in, and will have a grid with a higher average, higher level of competition.

Minardi and Stoddart with their whining politics are just blocking good and better competition!

Would you like to see a Minardi that gets lapped 6 times in a race, or another McLaren(or Ferrari or Williams) being on the grid i.e. more potential race winners?

[mattemejl]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
Respecting privateers, no problem with that.

What Minardi does is bringing down the average of the whole grid. Drop Minardi, get the 3 car per team rule in, and will have a grid with a higher average, higher level of competition.

Minardi and Stoddart with their whining politics are just blocking good and better competition!

Would you like to see a Minardi that gets lapped 6 times in a race, or another McLaren(or Ferrari or Williams) being on the grid i.e. more potential race winners?

I would like to see minardi and jordan better funded and more competetive...

[glorius&victorius]

Originally posted by mattemejl


I would like to see minardi and jordan better funded and more competetive...

That's a past-time dream...as a privateer they will never achieve that. And even with millions they cannot bridge the competition gap. I mean look at Toyota, how much effort it cost them to get near the top 3.

I mean a team should be on the grid because it's competitive, not because of nostalgic reasons.

[Double Apex]

But in the meantime, Sauber (privateers!) are outperforming Toyota with only a third of their budget. You are contradicting yourself G&V.

Less competitors and 3 cars per team is the last thing F1 needs.

[Daemon]

Originally posted by zfh10
I'll start having sympathy for Minardi, and giving them well-wishes, as soon as their team principal sells up and goes back to being a second-hand car salesman. The man couldn't organise an empty drawer.

Sure. After he built a hugely successful private airline and aircraft supply business from scratch, a couple of old RAAF relics and spart parts, and all this with a schooling reaching year 9 and working as a motor mechanic for his initial few working years.

But yes, apparently his bedroom looks like a disaster zone. He's nailed down the basic issues in life which most of master quite easily like creating multi-million dollar business empires, buying and restoring a failing F1 team, but still can't seem to master the more difficult issues like organising a sock drawer. The man should be shot.

[zfh10]

Originally posted by Daemon


Sure. After he built a hugely successful private airline and aircraft supply business from scratch, a couple of old RAAF relics and spart parts, and all this with a schooling reaching year 9 and working as a motor mechanic for his initial few working years.

But yes, apparently his bedroom looks like a disaster zone. He's nailed down the basic issues in life which most of master quite easily like creating multi-million dollar business empires, buying and restoring a failing F1 team, but still can't seem to master the more difficult issues like organising a sock drawer. The man should be shot.

you tell me when he has 'restored' Minardi and I'll listen!
He severely damaged F1 with his constant bitching and moaning last season, created verbal and public spats with other teams, sullied the image of F1, and sent sponsors fleeing with all his scare-mongering about how F1 is in dire financial straits. Nice job.
Finally someone (Bernie?) has shut him up so F1 can move forward again.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by zfh10
He severely damaged F1 with his constant bitching and moaning last season, created verbal and public spats with other teams, sullied the image of F1, and sent sponsors fleeing with all his scare-mongering about how F1 is in dire financial straits.

Proof please.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by HSJ


Ridiculous.

1) How would YOU know that?
2) How would you PROVE that?
3) Just because one is called something (e.g. a manufacturer) and another one isn't, doesn't mean there's a fundamental difference.

I really think it utterly stupid to put some teams like Minardi on some freaking pedestal based on some wild assumptions/fantasies.

Damn, talk about shooting someone for cheering for an underdog, jeezus

[Daemon]

Originally posted by zfh10

you tell me when he has 'restored' Minardi and I'll listen!
He severely damaged F1 with his constant bitching and moaning last season, created verbal and public spats with other teams, sullied the image of F1, and sent sponsors fleeing with all his scare-mongering about how F1 is in dire financial straits. Nice job.
Finally someone (Bernie?) has shut him up so F1 can move forward again.

Well, if you beleive your own bullshit you've listed above then so be it.

But the fact is , Minardi was about to fold when Stoddart bought the team. Its in a pretty decent financial position at the momeny, so he has, contrary to what you suggest, restored the team to a viable member of the F1 Paddock.

Secondly, F1 was and is in dire straights financially when it comes to sourcing sponsorship, which was all to available in the 80's 90's, you could not step out of you motorhome with tripping over numerable company reps. These days you do not. Arrows is gone, Jordan is on the brink of extinction, and Minardi has just recovered from their dire straights.

The point of the comment I quoted was that Paul was and is a useless manager who could not organise and empty sock drawer. Well, getting his own way with the funding for the lower ranked teams, thereby sustaining his own team and ensuring its survival, whilst still on the fringes of extintion is certainly showing that he can indeed organise an empty drawer, in addition to succesfully restoring MInardi to where it was pre 99.

Your point here = nothing but rambling, generalisation, and the usual x Driver/Manager/FIA is responsible for F1s problems. Show me a coherent argument and I'LL listen;)

[zfh10]

Originally posted by Daemon


Well, if you beleive your own bullshit you've listed above then so be it.

But the fact is , Minardi was about to fold when Stoddart bought the team. Its in a pretty decent financial position at the momeny, so he has, contrary to what you suggest, restored the team to a viable member of the F1 Paddock.

Secondly, F1 was and is in dire straights financially when it comes to sourcing sponsorship, which was all to available in the 80's 90's, you could not step out of you motorhome with tripping over numerable company reps. These days you do not. Arrows is gone, Jordan is on the brink of extinction, and Minardi has just recovered from their dire straights.

The point of the comment I quoted was that Paul was and is a useless manager who could not organise and empty sock drawer. Well, getting his own way with the funding for the lower ranked teams, thereby sustaining his own team and ensuring its survival, whilst still on the fringes of extintion is certainly showing that he can indeed organise an empty drawer, in addition to succesfully restoring MInardi to where it was pre 99.

Your point here = nothing but rambling, generalisation, and the usual x Driver/Manager/FIA is responsible for F1s problems. Show me a coherent argument and I'LL listen;)

May I first state that I support the concept of privateers in racing, but like most people I think it is hard to have any support for Stoddart.
I don't have the time or inclination to do web searches trawling through the news articles, but I am sure that either directly or through innuendo, Stoddart was ordered from on high to zip it because his constant whinging was damaging F1 and creating a false impression that F1 was in turmoil. If I find a spare moment I will find an URL for you.
The 'squeeky wheel gets the oil' form of management might work once - but I think he has tainted his reputation among fans and especially other team principals. If he used his head he could have beautifully exploited the under-dog tag and 'got' some support. Instead he chose the opposite and came across as a bleating antipodean wanting a handout. Hardly a wise business decision in an industry dependant on sponsors and public support/fan bases. And that is why he was roasted by the majority of the people on this BB during his erratic sniping outbursts last year.
Anyway - that is my opinion, and we are all entitled to them! If you give me some evidence amid a constructive argument then I'm prepared to listen to yours. I'm warning you though, based on your last few posts, I fear it is beyond you!

[f1seb]

Originally posted by Double Apex
But in the meantime, Sauber (privateers!) are outperforming Toyota with only a third of their budget. You are contradicting yourself G&V.

Less competitors and 3 cars per team is the last thing F1 needs.

Well Sauber "were" a very good privateer team but I don't think they are anymore with Ferrari giving them so much help, are they still paying for those Ferrari engines or will they come for free or at a reduced price of 100 dollars or so?

As for Mindardi, I'm just going to echo the words of Mika Hakkinen "I don't get it why they are so bad every year."

[zfh10]

Originally posted by f1seb
As for Mindardi, I'm just going to echo the words of Mika Hakkinen "I don't get it why they are so bad every year."

I haven't heard that one before, good one Mika!

[Chevy II Nova]

I guess I'll just start a new topic about the car. Thanks guys.

[Jackman]

Originally posted by zfh10
May I first state that I support the concept of privateers in racing, but like most people I think it is hard to have any support for Stoddart.
I don't have the time or inclination to do web searches trawling through the news articles, but I am sure that either directly or through innuendo, Stoddart was ordered from on high to zip it because his constant whinging was damaging F1 and creating a false impression that F1 was in turmoil. If I find a spare moment I will find an URL for you.
The 'squeeky wheel gets the oil' form of management might work once - but I think he has tainted his reputation among fans and especially other team principals. If he used his head he could have beautifully exploited the under-dog tag and 'got' some support. Instead he chose the opposite and came across as a bleating antipodean wanting a handout. Hardly a wise business decision in an industry dependant on sponsors and public support/fan bases. And that is why he was roasted by the majority of the people on this BB during his erratic sniping outbursts last year.
Anyway - that is my opinion, and we are all entitled to them! If you give me some evidence amid a constructive argument then I'm prepared to listen to yours. I'm warning you though, based on your last few posts, I fear it is beyond you!

I'm not entirely sure why you seem to think that 'most' people don't support, or at least sympathise with, Stoddart and Minardi. On this board at least there seems to be a core of goodwill for the team and its owner, and that was most obvious after the infamous Montreal press conference last year when 'most' people could see how dire the situation was, and how bad for the support we love if the team fell away. Bernie Ecclestone certainly realised the importance of the team - he bought into it to give them a hand.

If there is a team owner who is truly damaging the sport it's Eddie Jordan - sueing Vodaphone was a costly folly, and may have put more potential sponsors off the sport than the combined works of every other team boss in the pitlane.

In contrast Paul Stoddart has turned an ailing team with almost crippling debts around to the extent that they will enjoy their largest budget ever this year. That a good amount of that money comes from prolonged negotiations between the teams and the FOM only goes to show how effective Stoddart has been behind the scenes - Formula One is famously not a charity, and with a dearth of new sponsorship around in a mixed economic climate Stoddart did what he had to do to raise the budget on the team that he has pulled out of the red. I for one have a lot of respect for the job he's done.

[zfh10]

Originally posted by Jackman
If there is a team owner who is truly damaging the sport it's Eddie Jordan - sueing Vodaphone was a costly folly, and may have put more potential sponsors off the sport than the combined works of every other team boss in the pitlane.

I won't disagree with you there. I don't think this is entirely different to Stoddarts antics last season though.

[Jackman]

The actions of Jordan and Stoddart were poles apart - Jordan thought he could swindle some bucks from a multinational company with the threat of a fraudulent lawsuit, with the company calling his bluff and exposing his team and the sport to ridicule in news around the world, as well as making potential new sponsors think again about putting their money into the sport; whereas Stoddart merely told people involved in the sport of the depths of his team's financial problems which engendered a fairly ingenious solution, and all with a story that didn't make it beyond the hardcore supporters of the sport.

[Ross Stonefeld]

or, even further dumbed down; Eddie Jordan takes money out of F1. Stoddart puts money into it.

[Chevy II Nova]

Originally posted by Jackman
I'm not entirely sure why you seem to think that 'most' people don't support, or at least sympathise with, Stoddart and Minardi. On this board at least there seems to be a core of goodwill for the team and its owner, and that was most obvious after the infamous Montreal press conference last year when 'most' people could see how dire the situation was, and how bad for the support we love if the team fell away. Bernie Ecclestone certainly realised the importance of the team - he bought into it to give them a hand.

If there is a team owner who is truly damaging the sport it's Eddie Jordan - sueing Vodaphone was a costly folly, and may have put more potential sponsors off the sport than the combined works of every other team boss in the pitlane.

In contrast Paul Stoddart has turned an ailing team with almost crippling debts around to the extent that they will enjoy their largest budget ever this year. That a good amount of that money comes from prolonged negotiations between the teams and the FOM only goes to show how effective Stoddart has been behind the scenes - Formula One is famously not a charity, and with a dearth of new sponsorship around in a mixed economic climate Stoddart did what he had to do to raise the budget on the team that he has pulled out of the red. I for one have a lot of respect for the job he's done.

Bravo. Well put.

It should be noted that Bernies money has NOT been recieved. My understanding is that it will be a safety net of sorts in the event that the team should need it.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
or, even further dumbed down; Eddie Jordan takes money out of F1. Stoddart puts money into it.

This was the correct answer.