115 replies to this topic

[benn5325]

WOW

[benn5325]

OK, should have looked in the testing thread first. Sorry.

[raceday]

Now that's impressive! and it's not only that, they have not reported any unreliability from mugello either (At leastnot that I've seen)

[StickShift]

If Ferrari really want an impressive headline: "Schumacher Smashes Vallelunga Record by Eight Seconds;...Old Record set by Minardi"

[DukeNukem]

The nature of Mugello is what gives me encouragement, after the Fiorano tests I stated that I would be happier after Mugello because it is a tighter and twistier circuit (the weakness of the GA). With an impressive time (albeit on low fuel) this is a very good indicator of improvements in the F2004

[Double Apex]

I don't believe Mugello is tighter and twistier than Fiorano. At least Mugello is a lot faster, the average speed of the lap record is almost 50 kph faster:

Fiorano:

Length: 2.976 km
Lap record: 55,999 sec
Avg. speed: 191,3 km/h

Mugello:

Length: 5,245 km
Lap record: 1,18.704 sec
Avg. speed: 239,9 km/h

[FlatFoot]

I've always thought of Mugello as one of those circuits that has a little bit of everything (short twisty bits, long straight, etc.)

Looks like the shorter wheelbase is paying off.

[DukeNukem]

I don't believe Mugello is tighter and twistier than Fiorano. At least Mugello is a lot faster, the average speed of the lap record is almost 50 kph faster:

Fiorano:

Length: 2.976 km
Lap record: 55,999 sec
Avg. speed: 191,3 km/h

Mugello:

Length: 5,245 km
Lap record: 1,18.704 sec
Avg. speed: 239,9 km/h

Hmm it was something I read many years ago and never looked into it to be honest. Thanks for the correction, don't want to be spreading bullsh*t around.

See for yourself

Mugello circuit map

Fiorano circuit map

[wadders]

I wouldnt read too much into it. It is encouraging but I would still like to see it in race condtions.

Personally though I think that the Ferrari strategy of erring in favour of reliability in the past and then making the car faster will pay off this year with the one engine a weekend rule combined with the "unfair" points sytem.

It might actually work for them this year.

Go figure!!

[Sauron]

Originally posted by benn5325
OK, should have looked in the testing thread first. Sorry.

This does deserve its own thread It's really impressive time! I am just wondering where they picked up those 2 seconds

[QdfV]

So now they also made Mugello shorter!

[maclaren]

Mugello would be nice circuit in F1 calendar as the only italian grand prix

[black magic]

here here re being on the calender

[mr.wong]

forza barrichello.

[ruther]

WoW! How that is possible???? 2s is insane! Did they change the track?

[Mrv]

Originally posted by ruther
WoW! How that is possible???? 2s is insane! Did they change the track?

No, they changed to an Italian timing system ;) All kidding aside that was an impressive lap by Rubens.

[Barry Boor]

Pardon an elderly sceptic, but.....

How come people are getting so excited about Rubens times when just last week most people poo-pooed Jenson Button's not dissimilar efforts at Barcelona?

I'm only asking......

[Williams]

I wonder how quickly a 2004 Williams or McLaren would have lapped the same track.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Pardon an elderly sceptic, but.....

How come people are getting so excited about Rubens times when just last week most people poo-pooed Jenson Button's not dissimilar efforts at Barcelona?

I'm only asking......

Because Ferrari don't usually care about setting fastest laps or setting records they usually don't run on fumes to impress everyone. They don't need sponsors. Bar was running on fumes and probably underweight as well. Talk to the other drivers about BAR and they are not impressed either by their times. Most will tell you that Williams and Renault are the threat.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Pardon an elderly sceptic, but.....

How come people are getting so excited about Rubens times when just last week most people poo-pooed Jenson Button's not dissimilar efforts at Barcelona?

I'm only asking......

You don't simply improve 3 sec in 3 weeks and dominate everyone.

[TT6]

Originally posted by Mrv


Because Ferrari don't usually care about setting fastest laps or setting records...

... except every year when the new car is taken to Fiorano it has to lower the track record right away.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by Williams
I wonder how quickly a 2004 Williams or McLaren would have lapped the same track.

They would probably do just as well or possibly better as they know their cars better at this point then Ferrari. Ferrari are still learning.

[Sauron]

Originally posted by ruther
WoW! How that is possible???? 2s is insane! Did they change the track?

No, they changed the car ;) (BAR is good example )

[davegp3]

It's finished now.
Let's declare Schumi as 2004 WDC and Ferrari as 2004 WCC and teams will save a lot of money.

[Williams]

Originally posted by davegp3
It's finished now.
Let's declare Schumi as 2004 WDC and Ferrari as 2004 WCC and teams will save a lot of money.

It's not how much you improve your car. It's how much you improve on every one else's car.

[baddog]

interestingly though, this years cars were expected to start the year a little SLOWER or at very best equal to last years..

Shaun

[Sauron]

Originally posted by davegp3
It's finished now.
Let's declare Schumi as 2004 WDC and Ferrari as 2004 WCC and teams will save a lot of money.

I will remind you later how much you're wrong here ;) (Sometime about November )

[BMW4life]

:yawn:

I believe that record is almost 2 years old, set in the F2002...

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by Sauron
This does deserve its own thread It's really impressive time! I am just wondering where they picked up those 2 seconds

Rubens arm I presume.... anyway hold on your horses...practice is practice... although I would love to see Rubens giving some real heat to Schummi's as(*)

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by ruther
WoW! How that is possible???? 2s is insane! Did they change the track?

Ate tu Brutus? We may see Rubens very fast this season, at least when he doesn't lose a wheel, he doesn't run out of fuel, yada, yada, yada.....

[davegp3]

Originally posted by Sauron
I will remind you later how much you're wrong here ;) (Sometime about November )

Sorry about my I R O N Y

[holiday]

What people tend to overlook:

Not only the F2004 but also Rubens looks to be very quick....

Ruby - back from outer space

[Schuting Star]

Originally posted by Williams
It's not how much you improve your car. It's how much you improve on every one else's car.

Precisely, which is why I'll wait until Australia when we can really compare the cars. Until then I'm not going to get excited about any teams performance.

[karlth]

Ferrari improves by 2s at Mugello in two years? Williams have improved about 3.5s at Barcelona in two years.

As nearly everyone has said: With Ferrari testing alone we'll have to wait for Melbourne to compare.

[Fortymark]

Karlth: Tifosi party crasher...

[Johny Bravo]

Originally posted by karlth
Ferrari improves by 2s at Mugello in two years? Williams have improved about 3.5s at Barcelona in two years.

As nearly everyone has said: With Ferrari testing alone we'll have to wait for Melbourne to compare.

And how much did Ferrari improve in Barcelona?

[xsnhonda]

Originally posted by Mrv


Because Ferrari don't usually care about setting fastest laps or setting records they usually don't run on fumes to impress everyone. They don't need sponsors. Bar was running on fumes and probably underweight as well. Talk to the other drivers about BAR and they are not impressed either by their times. Most will tell you that Williams and Renault are the threat.

I think alot people are going to be shocked at BAR's pace. Renault are going to finish fifth.

Here is my preseason ranking in terms of performance as I see it now.

Ferrari
Williams
McClaren
BAR
Renault


.... the decisive factor though, will be the tyres, which should Michelin get it right all season, will
make it seem as though Ferrari has the third best car.

[Lantern]

Originally posted by xsnhonda


I think alot people are going to be shocked at BAR's pace. Renault are going to finish fifth.

Here is my preseason ranking in terms of performance as I see it now.

Ferrari
Williams
McClaren
BAR
Renault

Would you care to make a friendly wager on Renault's placing? I would definitely take you up on that my friend.


However, to make it fair I would have to say Renault has to finish 3rd or better for my part and 5th or worse for your part.


4th place is a tie and says we're better off keeping both our mouths shut! ;)

[Double Apex]

Also keep in mind the old record was set in the summer, so conditions were probably a lot hotter and thus slower.

No matter how you look at it though, there's no way to tell how impressive this time is.

[Johny Bravo]

Originally posted by Double Apex
Also keep in mind the old record was set in the summer, so conditions were probably a lot hotter and thus slower.

No matter how you look at it though, there's no way to tell how impressive this time is.

Certainly 2 secs improvement is not a BAD sign. Especialy alongside about 200 troublefree laps in 3 days at Mugello.

[VresiBerba]

09 Feb 2004 Barrichello Ferrari F2004	1:18.704

13 Jun 2002 Schumacher  Ferrari F2002	1:20.943  +2.239

08 Apr 2003 Badoer	  Ferrari F2003GA  1:21.128  +2.424

24 Apr 2003 Barrichello Ferrari F2003GA  1:21.203  +2.499

09 Apr 2003 Schumacher  Ferrari F2003GA  1:21.287  +2.583

08 Apr 2003 Massa	   Ferrari F2003GA  1:21.682  +2.978

08 Mar 2002 Badoer	  Ferrari F2002	1:22.016  +3.312

17 Apr 2002 Räikkönen   McLaren MP4-17   1:22.086  +3.382

19 Feb 2001 Barrichello Ferrari F2001	1:22.139  +3.435

24 Apr 2003 Räikkönen   McLaren MP4-17   1:22.470  +3.766

I better post this one in this thread as well. Pay extra attention to Rubens time from February 2001.

[Double Apex]

Originally posted by Johny Bravo


Certainly 2 secs improvement is not a BAD sign. Especialy alongside about 200 troublefree laps in 3 days at Mugello.

Heh, I am not saying it's a bad sign, I am just saying it's not neccesarily a good sign.;)

Even though it probably is...

[zfh10]

Originally posted by Mrv


Because Ferrari don't usually care about setting fastest laps or setting records they usually don't run on fumes to impress everyone. They don't need sponsors. Bar was running on fumes and probably underweight as well. Talk to the other drivers about BAR and they are not impressed either by their times. Most will tell you that Williams and Renault are the threat.

You have no idea if Ferrari are or are not "running on fumes" either. We only have your assertion as a piece of very flimsy evidence!
Ahh, you've gotta how all the fans are making their own desperate (and disperate) conclusions from testing times. Admit it, we are all F1 junkies waiting for our long-awaited 'hit' come Melbourne!

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by holiday
What people tend to overlook:

Not only the F2004 but also Rubens looks to be very quick....

Ruby - back from outer space

I didn"t

[ruther]

Originally posted by Mrv


Because Ferrari don't usually care about setting fastest laps or setting records they usually don't run on fumes to impress everyone. They don't need sponsors. Bar was running on fumes and probably underweight as well. Talk to the other drivers about BAR and they are not impressed either by their times. Most will tell you that Williams and Renault are the threat.

That is what I thought too...

[ruther]

Originally posted by speedmaster


Ate tu Brutus? We may see Rubens very fast this season, at least when he doesn't lose a wheel, he doesn't run out of fuel, yada, yada, yada.....

I wasn't 0.2s...it was 2s!

[Rene]

Originally posted by Mrv


Because Ferrari don't usually care about setting fastest laps or setting records they usually don't run on fumes to impress everyone. They don't need sponsors. Bar was running on fumes and probably underweight as well. Talk to the other drivers about BAR and they are not impressed either by their times. Most will tell you that Williams and Renault are the threat.

Check out what Scarbs said about the Barcelona test....

I saw the car on Sunday when it also set a fast lap, I can confirm that it had a huge slab of ballast under the chassis, more in the front of the shadow plate and they even added some to the car when Sato (who's lighter) got in. I concur with golfball that the car is not running underweight.

Source

I trust Scarbs eye above most of the experts here, if he says BAR was running legal, thats good enough for me

[black magic]

what might be even more interesting is that coujld well represent bridgestones improved speed, esp when as baddog points out the cars were meant at best to have equal speed to last year.

[Simioni]

Though it´s impossible to know the real significance of such record without any reference from another top 04 car, 1:18 is nonetheless a major quick time when you consider a 1:23 used to be a fast time just a couple of years ago. It might not prove ferrari is still the head of the field, but IMO it´s fair to say they´re certainly not out of the ballpark.

What I find impressive is the way lap records have been tumbling in this 04 testing season. I dont think times being lowered by 1-2s was to be expected under pretty stable technical regulations other than the single engine rule which should actually have led to slower laptimes. Have the teams made collective leaps in development, or is it this the scalation of the tire war showing?

On a side note, here is the eternal hope this will be the season Rubens will put it all together. His development as a driver in the last few years is througly noticeable, as ferrari´s acceptance of having him go for benchmark qualifying runs demonstrate

[Williams]

Originally posted by Simioni
What I find impressive is the way lap records have been tumbling in this 04 testing season. I dont think times being lowered by 1-2s was to be expected under pretty stable technical regulations other than the single engine rule which should actually have led to slower laptimes. Have the teams made collective leaps in development, or is it this the scalation of the tire war showing?

On a side note, here is the eternal hope this will be the season Rubens will put it all together. His development as a driver in the last few years is througly noticeable, as ferrari´s acceptance of having him go for benchmark qualifying runs demonstrate

It's gotta be tires.

And agreed on Rubens. Rubens will be fast this year. The key word is going to be "consistency", not just in terms of points, but in terms of staying at a high level every race weekend, all weekend long.