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#1 275 GTB-4

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Posted 21 February 2004 - 10:30

There is a name that conjures up a lot of recent history!!

I can vaguely remember sheepishly accompanying a friend with his Morris Cooper camshaft to Waggott's (Mayvic St? Greenacre??) and wondering what they would think of a couple of young jerks wanting to "hot up" their car.

There are other threads that touch on Waggotts work, such as:

"here is an interesting topic in a 1973 "Motoring News International" copy concerning
F5000 engines. Barry Catford wrote:" I sat alongside Peter Molloy who told me that they
had just screwed Alan Rollinson`s Chevy engine together and found an unbelievable
535 bhp on Merv Waggott`s dyno... Maybe someone can enlighten me as to the reason why
Repco engines develop 500 bhp (492-502) and can outpace the in-excess-of-510 bhp Chevies down the chute. Maybe the engine dynos vary altough Peter Molloy assures me that the Waggott unit varies little from the one at Repco. Could be that the Matich and Elfin
get their power to the track better out of the turns and hence enter the straights faster- or is it aerodynamics?"

and,

"The Mildren team, who had staked all in the Waggott TC4V 2-litre engines, there was no immediate rush to gear up. They were backed by the Alfa Romeo dealer, and so the idea of stock-block V8s was something to almost be sneered at.

The drivers, Kevin Bartlett and Max Stewart, were hankering to get amongst the more powerful machines, but initially they would have to do it with their Waggott engines – and they did this quite successfully. F5000 came about with the option of 2.5-litre free-design engines, largely for their sake and the sake of others with investments in FVAs, Repco V8s and Lawrence’s Ferrari."

I believe there is a relative still doing business up at Alstonville with all the old cam grinds...

I think Waggotts deserve their own dedicated thread, what do you all say?

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#2 Paul Newby

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Posted 21 February 2004 - 12:02

Hi Mick, I'm with you re having a dedicated thread on Merv Waggott and his engines. He did successfully build his own engines that went on to win championships, and I can't think of any none-car manufacturer who went on to do this later on (I'm excluding Repco- Holden F5000 enigines here.

Phil Wilkinson (I think?) told me of his involvement in Garry Leggatt's Alfa GTV Bathurst campaign in 1982 (where he was almost killed at McPhillamy Park.) Apparently they had imported a new V6 engine (remember the GTV6 was not released in Australia until 1983) and had asked Merv Waggott to come up with a suitable cam grind for the V6. Unfortunately, during this time Merv Waggott was killed in a light plane crash, so Leggatt had to go back to the trusty 4 cylinder unit.

I scoured my old copies of Motor Racing Australia (I don't have a complete set by the way) and remembered in #28 ( Jul/Aug 97) that Graham Howard wrote an article on the Waggott TCV4, which I never knew much about. I always thought that the TCV4 was a bespoke engine and was a bit disappointed that it was loosely based on a Ford Cortina block, though I guess this did back sense. Pity the CAMS rules for local F1/F5000 changed making the 2 Litre 4TCV obsolescent. Its interesting to think that there are probably more Waggott TC4Vs around than the eight that were originally made.

When I was at the Nationals Motor Museum at Birdswood in SA, I saw the WM Holden special, a late 50s special built by Jack Myers which had a Holdden 6 with a Waggott developed twin cam head. Now wouldn't that look good in your humpy Holden ! :)

#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 February 2004 - 12:57

Most went into speedboats, I believe...

The Repco had more bottom end, I believe, while the Chevies had more up top.

Mayvic Street is dead right, I was also a customer once with a Simca crank for an engine I was doing up for the 1970 Ampol Trial.

As for the dyno, it did (at least at one stage) drive through an old Ford truck gearbox which was said to sap horsepower and therefore leave you with conservative readings.

And the Waggott connection in Lismore doesn't, to my knowledge, have a cam grinder. I had a head touched up there about two years ago and I saw nothing of the sort. There was, however, a display of a Holden twin cam engine and I think a dummy-up TC4V.

Oh, yes, and the latter... the first (1850cc) engine had a Ford block and was almost exclusively used by Max Stewart. Later engines had entirely Waggott-bujlt bottom ends, IIRC, though they retained some Ford dimensions.

Let's face it, all that the Fords had that were retained in racing were their dimensions...

#4 275 GTB-4

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:07

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And the Waggott connection in Lismore doesn't, to my knowledge, have a cam grinder. I had a head touched up there about two years ago and I saw nothing of the sort. There was, however, a display of a Holden twin cam engine and I think a dummy-up TC4V.


Dateline Canberra
Today whilst motoring to work I came across an old Datto 1200 sedan (the fastback one.....nooooo not the 120why). It had the usual kid with the ballcap peering over the dashboard from his lowered seat and it had some wheel mods.

BUT

On the rear window was a relatively new sticker: WAGGOTT (with flowers!!)

:up: :cool:

#5 Michael Oliver

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 13:05

I seem to recall a quite extensive article about Waggott in Autosport back in the 70s, entitled 'The Aussie Cossie' or something similar! Does anybody else recall this? I'll have a look and see if I can track down the issue in my collection...

Michael

#6 275 GTB-4

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 13:21

:cool:

Thanks Michael, the article might be very interesting.

I suppose they meant the Australian Cosworth? by Aussie Cossie????

#7 Michael Oliver

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 22:00

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
:cool:

Thanks Michael, the article might be very interesting.

I suppose they meant the Australian Cosworth? by Aussie Cossie????


Indeed, they did, yes! I'll try and look for the article but I can't look this w/e as I'm on a training course both days... :(

Michael

#8 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 21:20

I remember the article, Aussie Cossie, oh dear. Couldn't find it in 1971.

With luck Peter Johnson will have the ex Bob Jane Brabham BT36 out running with one next year.

#9 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 07:21

Merv Waggott, the 'Aussie Cossie' - Australia's answer to the Cosworth. by Eoin Young.

Merv Waggott,.... mirrors Duckworth as an engineer in outlook and personality so it isn't surprising that that he was able to design and build a racing engine that won first time out .... the TC4V engine was completed late last year for installation in the Bailey-designed Mildren moncoque, and Kevin Bartlett won the Hordern Trophy with it at Warwick Farm.

"When Mike Costin was out on the Tasman series in 1969 I told him I had pinched some of his ideas, but he said ' Don't worry, we probably pinched them from someone else..!' "

The first 2 litre engine was running in December 1969 and giving 247 bhp with considerably more torque than the previous engine even in 1850cc form.

Autosport, March 5th 1970 p.32 & 33

#10 Michael Oliver

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 22:29

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Merv Waggott, the 'Aussie Cossie' - Australia's answer to the Cosworth. by Eoin Young.

Merv Waggott,.... mirrors Duckworth as an engineer in outlook and personality so it isn't surprising that that he was able to design and build a racing engine that won first time out .... the TC4V engine was completed late last year for installation in the Bailey-designed Mildren moncoque, and Kevin Bartlett won the Hordern Trophy with it at Warwick Farm.

"When Mike Costin was out on the Tasman series in 1969 I told him I had pinched some of his ideas, but he said ' Don't worry, we probably pinched them from someone else..!' "

The first 2 litre engine was running in December 1969 and giving 247 bhp with considerably more torque than the previous engine even in 1850cc form.

Autosport, March 5th 1970 p.32 & 33


Nice one Andrew - saved me looking ;)

Michael

#11 275 GTB-4

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 00:55

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And the Waggott connection in Lismore doesn't, to my knowledge, have a cam grinder. I had a head touched up there about two years ago and I saw nothing of the sort. There was, however, a display of a Holden twin cam engine and I think a dummy-up TC4V.


Spoke to Peter Waggott the other day, discussing camshafts, grinds and where to get them. I was pleased to hear that Waggots are still in the game! Located in Alstonville NSW, call (02) 6628 3795 and talk to Peter about their camshaft catalogue.

#12 David Shaw

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 15:49

Australia's Racing Car News from October 1968 has an article

"World scoop! Waggott DOHC/4"

#13 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 01:22

Originally posted by David Shaw
Australia's Racing Car News from October 1968 has an article

"World scoop! Waggott DOHC/4"


Thank you David, must look that one up, Cheers :up:

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 12:26

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Spoke to Peter Waggott the other day, discussing camshafts, grinds and where to get them. I was pleased to hear that Waggots are still in the game! Located in Alstonville NSW, call (02) 6628 3795 and talk to Peter about their camshaft catalogue.


Did I say Lismore?

It was certainly in the backblocks of Alstonville when I went there... just around the corner from Ian Anelzark's workshop.

#15 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 09:27

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Did I say Lismore?

It was certainly in the backblocks of Alstonville when I went there... just around the corner from Ian Anelzark's workshop.


No, I think you said Alstonville, lovely roads up there. Now you throw in Ian A (Foley mechanic, Geoghegans Mech etc). I have friends living in the main street, I must organise a visit, saying its been far too long since I saw them, but with the hidden agenda of checking out a few interesting Motorsport types!!

#16 Amaroo Park

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 11:02

Any specific info the can be detailed here on the Waggott engines?

#17 macoran

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 11:27

Originally posted by David Shaw
Australia's Racing Car News from October 1968 has an article

"World scoop! Waggott DOHC/4"


Has anybody managed to find this article ?

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 13:22

It's in the next room... why?

#19 macoran

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 19:48

I'll sit down there with a cuppa then,thnx

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#20 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 22:25

Coffee please.

Posted Image

& it sounds fantastic too. Just like an FVC

#21 macoran

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 23:42

Sugar Milk ???

Is that a newer version ?

Spec still identical to the 4 pot raced in the 1972 Mildren in the Tasman and Australian series ?

#22 cosworth bdg

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 01:38

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Coffee please.

Posted Image

& it sounds fantastic too. Just like an FVC

Hope the owner has a large wallet for spares purchase[ ??? ] :down: ,still it is only a historic car so hope the driver will not punish the car much and doesn't have a heavy foot on the accelerator pedal, and by the way they doent sound as good as a COSSIE ford FVA/C . :up: :down:

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 02:48

Notice how that monocoque has been built for the downswept exhaust under the banks of a V8?

That's the Mildren Mono... the Yellow Submarine... and the owner can afford a few spares. Actually, he's finished off a head or two from crook castings that were left over and I think he can build three engines.

I was looking them over a couple of years ago...

#24 cosworth bdg

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 02:56

By the way, if any one requires a spec sheet for the 4V/TC 2 LITRE waggot, i have the sheet for engine no .008/9 , ex RAMSAY Elfin /600, now Elfin 600 REPCO....

#25 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 06:15

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Notice how that monocoque has been built for the downswept exhaust under the banks of a V8?

Ooo arr, now you mention it.

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
and by the way they doent sound as good as a COSSIE ford FVA/C . :up: :down:


I hope you're right, just stripped an FVA down, there's more junk than good in it.

:cry:

#26 cosworth bdg

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 06:35

[i]Originally posted by Andrew Fel



I hope you're right, just stripped an FVA down, there's more junk than good in it.

:cry: [/B]

The same as most of the WAGGOT engines around , Ford & Waggot blocked engines, 1600 to 2000cc engines. Hope you know a very good and knowlegible machineshop and machnist. They are very scarce in this country. :down:

#27 cosworth bdg

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 06:51

Especially ones that know what they are doing and why they are doing it, in other words a very good understanding of what the function of ALL COMPONENTS are........

#28 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 07:05

Andrew was saying he stripped down a Cossie... not a Waggott...

You seem to be getting the disease, Peter, we might see a lot more of you around here, it seems.

#29 cosworth bdg

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 08:09

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Andrew was saying he stripped down a Cossie... not a Waggott...

You seem to be getting the disease, Peter, we might see a lot more of you around here, it seems.

Ray, not likely, i don't want to be infected with the disease. The forum is good reading , to fill in my many spare hours that i now have in retirement. ,By the way ,there is no difference between a COSSIE & a WAGGOT...in the amount of work and expertise required......

#30 Amaroo Park

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 09:19

Originally posted by Ray Bell
It's in the next room... why?


Any chance of posting it here?

I had a tech teacher when doing my apprenticeship who had worked at Waggotts in the 60's

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 10:23

Well... if you can explain how I fix it when I go to use the scanner and a message comes up 'cannot find twain 32 driver'...

Sorry, no operative scanner at the moment, and I don't think the digital camera would be good enough. Though I could try that in the morning.

#32 macoran

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 10:31

Could it be an Epson scanner ?
try a bump start.....disconnect the power for a few seconds...then reconnect and see
if it will activate.
I've had the same in the past

otherwise the driver needs re-installation

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 11:50

Canon...

And my first thought was to just do a fresh instal on another computer I'm just setting up... tried that, got the same message!

#34 macoran

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 22:06

Only other thing I can think of now...I've had with an HP scanner.
I moved the scanner about while decorating and forgot locking it.
Seems the transport system for the scan element can then jam.
I opened it up and with power on gave the scan element a nudge.
Still going strong.

But in this case I wouldn't expect a cannot find twain 32 message.

#35 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 23:30

No... and this one has been sitting there untouched...

Actually, it was last used only a couple of weeks ago.

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 23:55

Who needs a scanner anyway?

0218TC4VRCN1.jpg

0218TC4VRCN2.jpg

0218TC4VRCN3.jpg

Aticle reposted 090218




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 09 February 2018 - 07:26.


#37 SR781

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 00:15

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
The same as most of the WAGGOT engines around , Ford & Waggot blocked engines, 1600 to 2000cc engines. Hope you know a very good and knowlegible machineshop and machnist. They are very scarce in this country. :down:


Talking of scarce what about the Cosworth Chev Vega? Not the production type units built by Chevrolet but the proper Cosworth units with the Lucas slide injection.

#38 cosworth bdg

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 02:06

Only one I know of in australia & that is being rebuilt in SYDNEY to go back in to the KADITCHA sports car from whence it originally came out of...

#39 cosworth bdg

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 02:36

Originally posted by SR781


Talking of scarce what about the Cosworth Chev Vega? Not the production type units built by Chevrolet but the proper Cosworth units with the Lucas slide injection.

Do you happen to own such engine ? Regards.....

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#40 SR781

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 04:44

Brilliant deduction.

#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 06:06

And we welcome the Kaditcha owner...

Lovely little car that.

#42 cosworth bdg

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 06:28

Originally posted by SR781
Brilliant deduction.

Welcome TERRY, Regards P.N.

#43 SR781

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 06:52

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And we welcome the Kaditcha owner...

Lovely little car that.


Unfortunately time and people have not been nice to the car.I will post a photo later on the site.

#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 07:09

I always reckoned it was a strange engine choice...

There's no others the same in the country, they weren't exactly a big deal overseas. But whatever reason Bob had for choosing it, it doesn't matter. It was different and it was nice.

#45 cosworth bdg

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 07:11

Originally posted by SR781


Unfortunately time and people have not been nice to the car.I will post a photo later on the site.

Good luck with the restoration ..... :up:

#46 275 GTB-4

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 08:48

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Welcome TERRY, Regards P.N.


Welcome Terry :wave: Terry from Canberra ??? Hows the Alfa Project coming along?? and

did you go to Tassie for the Aussie Racers ??

I know!! questions!! Cheers, Mick :wave:

#47 The Chasm

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:19

SR781 - I recall a chap trying to sell me a "spare body" for one of these KADITCHA SR781 - if you want to contact me direct, I'll happily pass on the details.

#48 275 GTB-4

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:52

Kaditcha...man (get it? Aussies?)....I was perving on some pics from Oran etc just the other day....they may be scanned from MS Annuals tho....will check tomorrow because the Kad was really a brutal looking beast of a sports racer :wave:

[Oh!...and Waggott to Kaditcha....ya gotta love the way TNF rambles sometime :cool: ]

#49 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:57

Did Bob Hinrichs ever run it at Oran Park?

This car was very different to the V8 Kaditchas...

#50 SR781

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 01:07

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Welcome Terry :wave: Terry from Canberra ??? Hows the Alfa Project coming along?? and

did you go to Tassie for the Aussie Racers ??

I know!! questions!! Cheers, Mick :wave:



Wrong Terry,i'm from Sydney