106 replies to this topic

[Team Result]

Regarding engine #2; was it confirmed that from Bill Fanning's car it went directly to Col Wear for the Datsun Sports Sedan? 

 

Back in Post #74, Trev stated "It was originally a complete engine and I seem to recall it came from Max Stewart via Merv to Colin.", which seems to contradict the above.

 

Also, on another forum (Ten-tenths) in the Historic Sports Sedan Register thread, a poster had this to say, "........Fanning did run a Waggott in the Escort. When I saw the car in (1975) in Melbourne (Altona) before Garry (Rogers)bought it, the Waggott engine was not assembled and needed new parts. I don't think Garry ever ran the Waggott engine?..."

 

Nit picking perhaps, but the chain of ownership may have been more like; Waggott Engines - Mildren Team - Max Stewart (when Mildren Team folded) - Fanning -  unknown (if above HSRR post implies someone in Melbourne (Altona), other than Fanning had both car and engine) - Waggott Engines (for crankcase repair, etc) - Wear  

 

On yet another forum, a poster states that over Easter 1972 the Fanning Escort Waggott won both touring car support races at the Singapore & Malaysian Grands Prix and that shortly after that Fanning apparently retired from racing.

 

If the HSRR poster is correct in his recollection, does that leave a two-three year gap before car & engine surface in Melbourne? And when & where did the Waggott's crankcase get ventilated? A simple answer would be that Fanning continued racing the Escort back in Australia until the engine blew - someone would have to check their stash of RCN to verify that ;-)

 

 

 

[Ray Bell]

I think all of this is way off...

First, the Submarine never had an 1860. It got the 'development' 2-litre, then Mildren bought another 2-litre (No 2) for the Stewart car and the 1860 was retained as spare.

When Merv wanted payment on the development engine (No 1) Mildren handed it back and stuck the 1860 back in Max's car. When Max bought the car at the beginning of 1971 it had the 2-litre fitted and the Submarine sat around engineless.

Bob Muir acquired engine No 1 and used it in his Rennmax, then he saw the Submarine at Sandown sans engine and bought it, refitting the engine it had for some time while KB was racing it.

But bear in mind that both 2-litre engines at some time or another were in both Mildren cars when Alec had them. The story I heard (at the time) was about the confusion at Customs when car No 1 left the country with engine No 2, car No 2 with engine No 1 and a spare engine went with them. On their return, the Customs people had problems understanding why they came back with car No 1 having engine No 1 and the spare engine was in car No 2 and engine No 2 was in a box.

So who do we have for the third 2-litre engine? Presumably Leo, followed closely by Glyn.

Engine No 5 to Hyams, thence O'Gorman. Engine No 6 to Ramsay.

Of interest, Ramsay was said to have the engine out of the Elfin and he and his father were said to be building a sports car for it to adorn.

But that denies Jane. But the Scott and Geoghegan engines were 'loose' when the Jane car was put together. Campbell, I would say, got the one not going to Jane.

[MarkBisset]

Guys,

A bit more...

1.1860 & Sports Sedans

I'll see if Greg Smiths knowledge of this engine goes 'all the way back' as to the order of the batting

2. 1860 & The Sub

According to ORC both Max and KB raced @ Mallala on 13/10/69 using, respectively, the 1600 in the Mildren and the 1860 in The Sub

@ Surfers - Max used the 1860 and KB the Alfa V8 - 26/10/69

@ WF Hordern Trophy - Max used the 1600 and KB the first of the 2 litres and won on its debut -,7/12/69

So plenty of work for Glenn Abbey and Stu Randall in that period!

3. Geoghegan's Engine went to Gary Campbell

Geoff Russell got in touch overnite- the owner of the ex-Campbell Elfin 600B/E. He comments '...When I spoke with Leo Geoghegan some years back he said he supplied the Waggott used in GC's Elfin 600B for the 1972 Japanese GP (also see article in RCN in mid-72) and that it was the engine from Leo's Lotus. There has been mention that Gary ended up with Glynn Scott's engine but I haven't been able to solidly verify that, will check with Scott Campbell...I now have it in twin-cam configuration which it also ran...unless I can find a Waggott TC4V, regards, Geoff'

4. Ramsay engine in Bernie Zampatti Birrana 272 '002'

Seems uncontentious and confirmed by Peter Nightingale a decade ago on Ten Tenths.

Have updated the engine summary @ post #100 accordingly

Mark

Edited by MarkBisset, 12 February 2018 - 06:11.

[Paul Hamilton]

At least one TC4V spent time in Ray Hanger’s Rennmax sports car during the 70’s and I believe he may have acquired a second one to replace that following a blow up. I don’t now recall where the engines came from or what happened to them but some bits and pieces were stored for a time in my workshop at Balmain.

[SJ Lambert]

It was just about a case of Waggott me senseless at The Farm in 1971!

Edited by SJ Lambert, 12 February 2018 - 07:05.

[BUCKLECOUPE]

Hi Mick, I'm with you re having a dedicated thread on Merv Waggott and his engines. He did successfully build his own engines that went on to win championships, and I can't think of any none-car manufacturer who went on to do this later on (I'm excluding Repco- Holden F5000 enigines here.

Phil Wilkinson (I think?) told me of his involvement in Garry Leggatt's Alfa GTV Bathurst campaign in 1982 (where he was almost killed at McPhillamy Park.) Apparently they had imported a new V6 engine (remember the GTV6 was not released in Australia until 1983) and had asked Merv Waggott to come up with a suitable cam grind for the V6. Unfortunately, during this time Merv Waggott was killed in a light plane crash, so Leggatt had to go back to the trusty 4 cylinder unit.

I scoured my old copies of Motor Racing Australia (I don't have a complete set by the way) and remembered in #28 ( Jul/Aug 97) that Graham Howard wrote an article on the Waggott TCV4, which I never knew much about. I always thought that the TCV4 was a bespoke engine and was a bit disappointed that it was loosely based on a Ford Cortina block, though I guess this did back sense. Pity the CAMS rules for local F1/F5000 changed making the 2 Litre 4TCV obsolescent. Its interesting to think that there are probably more Waggott TC4Vs around than the eight that were originally made.

When I was at the Nationals Motor Museum at Birdswood in SA, I saw the WM Holden special, a late 50s special built by Jack Myers which had a Holdden 6 with a Waggott developed twin cam head. Now wouldn't that look good in your humpy Holden !

Cinzano Alfa.. We did not import a V6 engine for our Bathurst Alfa,  Alfa Australia had a couple and a new V6 car at there Mascot building. Yes we were at Merv Waggott's Greenacre workshop on Saturday avos after hours trying to sort out the camshafts when Merv was killed in a plane crash, So we decided to go back to the 4 cylinder model. And the rest is known history.

[Lee Nicolle]

As a point of fact. The Repco Holden 5 litre was a production engine. Though made by Holden with slight casting mods and materials to be better suiited for racing. And Repco then 'tuned' the engines into a race engine

The L34 Torana engine shared some of those mods.

Chevrolet [who did not race!!] did similar mods to special engines for motorsport for both 5000 racing as well as TransAm.

The Ford Boss 302 also was a racing engine  for TransAm with numerous mods for racing. Better materials, 4 bolt etc  plus ofcourse the Cleveland heads.  though I do not know if one ended up in a 5000?

Still the basis of the Stupidcar engines however.50 years on!!