103 replies to this topic

[bill moffat]

Looking out of my office this morning the snow is gently falling. Pretty unusual in Kent nowadays
(unlike years gone by when the Boxing Day meeting at Brands would often be ice and snow-affected).

It has got me thinking about the most extreme weather in which an attempt has been made to run a mainstream motor race. Tempests at Mount Fuji, snow at Silvestone, hurricanes at Monza Park ?? I scanned the Search facility regarding this thread, forgive me if we've been here before !

[Vitesse2]

Ignoring the obvious ice races, both pre- and post-WWII, the 1933 Pau GP was run in snow (there's a picture somewhere on TNF) and I think it was the 1985 Eifelrennen which was cancelled because of snow.

[Teapot]

Adelaide's GP has a tradition for quite infamous weather conditions: in 1989 Prost refused to start (he had already won the championship, anyway) and the race lasted until the two hours limit; in 1991 the race was stopped after 14 laps and only the half of the usual amount of points was awarded.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Ignoring the obvious ice races, both pre- and post-WWII, the 1933 Pau GP was run in snow (there's a picture somewhere on TNF) and I think it was the 1985 Eifelrennen which was cancelled because of snow.

I am not sure of the year that the Eifelrennen was cancelled, but 1985 sounds about right. I have this thought in the back of my mind that a Group C race on Suzuka were run in partial snow sometimes early 1980ies (may not have been called group C yet) - The season that Patrese and Lancia almost took the Championship.

[bill moffat]

Have (F1) track conditions ever been worse than Fuji in '76 or Estoril in '85 ?

[Jeremy Jackson]

A fair amount of snow during the 1984 International Trophy meeting at Silverstone, most of it during the F3 race.

The Eifelrennen cancellation was definitely 1985, the first season of F3000.

[Macca]

I remember the famous picture of Ronnie sliding his Lotus 72 through Woodcote in practise for the International Trophy in 1973 or 1974...............in a blizzard!

Those early season British non-championship F1 meetings were always a bit marginal, IIRC the Race of Champions in 1980 ?? was postponed from March to Easter because of snow.

One team manager is said to have replied to a question about what tyres to use in sleet with "Slicks..................lightly studded"

I used to go to the Boxing Day bike racing at Mallory, and they often had to salt the track and wait for the sun to be high enough to prevent re-freezing before racing.



Paul, wishing he'd had studs for at least part of the journey home last night

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by bill moffat
Have (F1) track conditions ever been worse than Fuji in '76 or Estoril in '85 ?

The cloudburst at the International Trophy 1951? Stopped after six laps with the track flooded in places. Only Parnell and Whitehead managed six laps - they'd lapped the entire field, including all the Alfas!

And I remember snow at another early 70s International Trophy: I think it was 1973 without checking ...

[joachimvanwing]

Nürburgring 1968

[bigears]

Originally posted by joachimvanwing
Nürburgring 1968

Too true!

A lot of rain and fog!

Plus what about Spa 1998 as well? But obviously Fuji '76 and Estoril '85 is a lot worse though.

[Jeremy Jackson]

The first Birmingham Superprix in 1986 - The "remnants" of Hurricane Charlie (I think)

[scags]

My favorite was the 97(I think) Monaco GP. It poured with rain, and waves were breaking over the wall on to the track. Shumacher won by half a lap, even after a quick spin.

[Mallory Dan]

Japanese (Suzuzka?) Group C end of 85, all then Europeans refused to race, Japs were happy too, the only Nissan win in Group C at World level. Also only March Group C win.

Macca ISTR the Race of Champs race psotponed at Brands was 1979, later re-run at Easter. I wondered whether this was a 'smokescreen' becos' when it was re-run it had a half decent field thanks to the Aurora runners. Without them it'd have been a very small entry.

[BRG]

There's been a couple of bad days at Silverstone - the GP in 1975 when Emerson won whilst in the pits and nearly everyone else ended in a heap off the road at Abbey - and the 1978 International Trophy when Keke made his name by splashing to victory in the Theodore whilst all about fell off the road.

Then wasn't there a Monza 1000kms in the 1970s won a by a de Tomaso Pantera in terrible rain? The winner complained he was getting wheelspin in top gear as he passed the pits...

[bill moffat]

OK so that covers some of the wet and snowy races, but what about at the other end of the scale ? If we are talking extreme heat then does anything compare to the various Tripoli Grands Prix, sandstorms and all.

..and wind (sorry). Didn't a Group C race at Monza get stopped by a fallen tree ?

[Vitesse2]

Well, if we're talking extreme heat, then Argentina 1955 must be the worst: no sandstorms but only Fangio and Mieres completed the race without a relief driver ....

[bigears]

Should I forseen the forthcoming Bahrain GP?

How could I forget about the 1986 Birmingham Superprix race!

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Hockenheim 1985 - a round of the Group C World Championship held in July.

Teams had to empty the fuel tanks for vapour locks every so often thanks to hot weather and no wind at the track. Even mighty Porsche AG was effected in part due to this heat problem and a fire broke out at one of their fuel stops.

Come to think about that year was pretty dramatic.

-At Monza trees started to fall across the track due to a storm
-At Hockenheim the heat was intense
-At Mosport Manfred Winkelhock was killed
-At Spa Stefan Bellof was lost too
-At Fuji torrential rain shortened the race drastically
-At Shah Alam the temperatures were both high and humid

A year of extremes

I believe the no-F3000-race at Nürburgring 1985 (again!) was supposed to have been the first round of the series ever. What a rocky start.

Jesper

[Jeremy Jackson]

I believe the no-F3000-race at Nürburgring 1985 (again!) was supposed to have been the first round of the series ever. What a rocky start

Jesper,

The Eifelrennen would have been round 4 on April 28. Silverstone, Thruxton & Estoril preceded it. Silverstone was cold & miserable aswell, but that's what you get at Silverstone in March (or most other months...)

[2F-001]

Some of those Silverstone ones... I can still recall the cold fingers and wet feet.

The 1978 International Trophy was famously wet around start time, with cars flying off on the warming-up laps and in the opening stages - and Rosberg going on to win.

The Martini International (1972?) for 2-litre Group 6 was terribly wet in the second heat - giving rise to the virtuoso drive from "Little Art", oft spoke of hereabouts...

But one I've only read about is the Sebring 12-hours in 1965 - where legend has it that some drivers ended up racing around the wrong bits of the airfield, so poor was the visibility...

[Rob G]

The champ car races at Surfers Paradise the past two years were badly affected by terrible weather. The fiasco of 2002 was run mostly under yellow after a deluge inundated the track and made visibility impossible. The following year, the race was red-flagged due to a hailstorm, although thankfully the weather cleared fairly quickly.

[scheivlak]

I'm a bit surprised that nobody hasn't mentioned the 1984 Monaco GP yet!

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by scheivlak
I'm a bit surprised that nobody hasn't mentioned the 1984 Monaco GP yet!

..a very good point. Surprising how often Monaco is wet despite the race normally being well into May.

Perhaps there is a stasitician/meteorologist amongst our number who can compare the wet:dry ratio for Monaco compared with the same ratio for the old non championship races (RoC and International Trophy) that were held earlier in the year in the UK. I suspect early Spring in the UK provided more dry races than the Med in May !

[Don Capps]

Daily Mirror Trophy race at Snetterton in March 1964 -- bitterly cold, rainy, puddles everywhere, race shortened..... Blackie winning the saloon car event in a 1963 Ford Galaxie 500 at a faster average than the one for the GP cars.....

[bill moffat]

1980 was a bit unusual. Returned from watching Alain de Cadenet win the Silverstone 6hrs in May with a painful sunburn, A month later was drenched and frozen watching another constructor/driver (Rondeau) winning at Le Mans.

[panzani]

IIRC, in Suzuka 2000 an earthquake shook the ground on the Friday during free practise, even though I am not sure if there were cars running at that moment.

[Paul Taylor]

What about the 1999 F3000 race at Hockenheim? IIRC, there was a pileup somewhere on one of the straights which left a car upside down in the middle of the track, on top of another.

Does anyone have this race on VHS video?

[Jesper O. Hansen]

One year (haven't found out what) the Nazareth CART race was cancelled on race morning due to snow.

Another take on forces of nature is that of gravity.

When CART made their first (and so far only) trip to the high banks of Texas Motor Speedway, drivers experienced near black-outs during practice and qualifying. Thankfully the race was cancelled.
I don't think the track was given up totally on the spot, because Kenny Bräck was credited with a bonus point for the pole for a few weeks.

Jesper

[swintex]

I have a dim recollection of practice for the 1969 Race of Champions (my first motor race aged 11) taking place in very thick fog, leading to either the rest of practice or the race, being postponed or delayed.

I do recall the high wing on Rindt's 49b folding up in the middle in front of the pits, as would happen later to both Hill and Rindt at Barcelona.

Having had a bit of a Google I did discover from http://www.jochen-rindt.at/index.html that the race was on 16th March and Rindt retired with oil pressue problems having set fastest lap.

Fuller results here http://www.silhouet....9/1969.html#roc

[RTH]

Precious little Grand Prix racing was carried live on BBC TV in the 1970's but the International Trophy races at Silverstone usually were, - the 1973 race was very memorable for Ronnie's amazing car control around Woodcote ( the days when it was a very fast sweeper ) in fast falling big snowflakes, and the chaotic mayhem of the 1978 race when cars were flying off in to huge infield lakes of standing water and hardly anyone was left on the track as Rosberg took the flag, Murray Walker really did have his trousers on fire that day !

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Sebring 1965

A deluge swept across the landscape and standing water was ankle-deep in places. The leading Chaparral's were slowed to a crawl on their(then)wide tires. Light and nimble, an A-H Sprite prototype with narrow tires made mincemeat of most of the bigger cars, setting one of the fastest laps of any in the conditions.

While hardly to be noted under major events, I had a Bulova race at Mosport called off in early 1976 due to snow. The week prior, the track held an open practice day in shirt sleeve weather.

Also, in the final club event in 1974 at Mosport, I led an FV/FC/F4 combined field 'til crashing out mid-race in my Kelly FV. The race started in a drizzle, got progressively worse with fog settling in lower and lower to the point where, watching the balance of the race from the comfort of a kind spectator's car, I was astonished to suddenly see a Plymouth sedan materialize out of the haze on the track proper. The Clerk of the Course and Chief Steward had decided to tour the track and access conditions. The race carried on under these dismal conditions and almost certainly set a record for the slowest average speed ever set for a 20-lapper at Mosport.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Well, if we're talking extreme heat, then Argentina 1955 must be the worst: no sandstorms but only Fangio and Mieres completed the race without a relief driver ....

Likewise the 1953 Indianapolis 500. Run in sweltering conditions, only 5 drivers drove all 200 miles - Carl Scarborough died of heat exhaustion as a direct result of driving in the race.

[lanciaman]

For heat, Phoenix. In 1991 it was 110 degrees. For cold, most any USGP at Watkins Glen. Feet and fingers would cease to have any useful function.

In my modest experience racing sports cars, extremes of heat and cold present a real problem for crew, driver and car, not least being the state of personal misery you are in. Rain isn't so bad in itself and for some can level the playing field. In extreme heat I used to pack my suit pockets with ice, and still lose 5 or 6 pounds in an hour.

[Gerr]

Thanks for the memory jog, Lanciaman. The CART/Indycar 200 at Phoenix was extremely hot in 1991, but there was a constant breeze which helped make it bearable. The wind did perform some tricks. Little "dust-devils" would pop up on the track between practice sessions, due to , I would guess, the wind and the turbulance from the cars in short-track, high-downforce configuration.

From the grandstands we saw one of these whirlwinds get bigger and bigger as it moved through the infield. Then it travelled between a row of support trailers and motorhomes shaking and lifting the canopies, blowing papers and trash high in the sky. For a finale, it hit the CART technical inspection tent, hard, blowing the roof up and pulling the poles apart. The tent partially collapsed around the ears of the tech inspectors. A stunned silence followed and then huge cheers and applause erupted from every crew chief and mechanic on pit row.

[lanciaman]

Originally posted by Gerr

From the grandstands we saw one of these whirlwinds get bigger and bigger as it moved through the infield. Then it travelled between a row of support trailers and motorhomes shaking and lifting the canopies, blowing papers and trash high in the sky. For a finale, it hit the CART technical inspection tent, hard, blowing the roof up and pulling the poles apart. The tent partially collapsed around the ears of the tech inspectors. A stunned silence followed and then huge cheers and applause erupted from every crew chief and mechanic on pit row.

Tech gets no respect.

And for all the fond memories about Riverside, I remember the sand and dust being a constant annoyance.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Zolder 1988 - a round of the European Touring Car Championship

A sudden burst of rain sends cars left, right and center before anyone can put on wet weather tires.

Jesper

[D-Type]

I vaguely remember a Motor Sport cover in the early sixties showing an Elva leading at the Boxing Day Brands meeting on a track that was white with snow or salt.

[eldougo]

Thruxton easter F2 meetings mid 70's it snowed during pratice & on race day .It was so cold
we had to warm up our toolbox to stop the tools clinging to your skin before we could work onthe cars.Then warm up the motor & gearbox.
I remember seeing Peterson & Stuck going past the PITS and disappering into a wall of white towards the esses. You could't see anything and they took at least 4/5 laps to get any temp in the tyres. And the sound of a Beema's & BDA's at full noise was just music to my ears.
I still think that & F2 motor at full song where the best of all motor sounds.

[dmj]

For rain I think Le Mans 1979 was among the worst...
In my experience, even if a bit OT, a rainy stage of INA Croatia rally (1999, I think) was worse. Actually, conditions were so bad that besides marshalls there was only one spectator on whole distance of the stage - guess who? At least two drivers audibly missed a gear in disbelief when they saw me standing besides the road...
Talking about rallying, there was a year when snow fell during Corsica rally, sometime in Sixties, and of more than 50 entrants only a Citroen DS finished the worst stage. Of course, organisers nilled it and continued rally on limited scale IIRC, there was a Motorsport article about it...

[Henri Greuter]

Indianapolis 1953

The hottest on record, some cars were flagged off but being driven by three to four drivers.
Winner Bill Vukovich one of only a few who didn't need a relief driver.
Driver Carl Scarborough so overtaekn by heat exhaustion hie died because of it.


Henri Greuter


Dallas 1984 also comes to mind: Rosberg winning because he invested in a liquid cooled cap under his helmet, and Mansell doing near stupid because of the heat.


Other horrible event:
Spa 24 hours 2003. So much rain that the more powerful GTR cars had no beefit of all this power and a Porsche GT3 being able to win the event because decent handling, using whatever power there was was more helpful that high power outputs...



Henri Greuter

[Mallory Dan]

Snow. Was the Thruxton F2 meet that eldougo mentions the 75 race? I recall that year John Noakes from Blue Peter attended the Oulton Park Good Friday F5000 race with David Purley and that was very snowy. Gordon Spice won, a turn-up in itself, so I guess it was probably also pretty cold in Hants too that weekend.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

The cloudburst at the International Trophy 1951? Stopped after six laps with the track flooded in places. Only Parnell and Whitehead managed six laps - they'd lapped the entire field, including all the Alfas!

The one and (not surprisingly) only occasion that my father took my mother to Silverstone. A tale oft repeated by dad...he lifted the side of a marquee and guided mum inside...into an enormous puddle contained within.

[Lotus23]

ISTR posting this elsewhere on another thread, but for years the SCCA Runoffs at Road Atlanta were run on Thanksgiving weekend, usu around 25 November. While the North Georgia weather could be gorgeous then, it could also be awfully fickle.

Someone with better resources than I can pinpoint the year, but the BProd class (mostly Corvettes) thundered out of T5 and down the short straight directly into a very localized, but very severe, thunderstorm. Running on slicks, most of the front-runners were caught totally unprepared and slid straight off at the next turn, ending up in the woods. Those on the scene said it was amazing no one was killed in the carnage.

I think the guy around P9 was eventually declared the winner.

The story I heard was that The Authorities confiscated any film shot at the time because it was so shocking. Don't know if that part was true or not!

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by bill moffat
Didn't a Group C race at Monza get stopped by a fallen tree ?

1000 km di Monza, april 1985, IIRC.
Quite unusual in Lombardia such a strong wind, and quite unusual in Spring (it's more usual in August).

Euro F.3000: race at Nürburgring on May 5th was canceled because of snow, IIRC

Originally posted by lanciaman
For heat, Phoenix. In 1991 it was 110 degrees.

I hope you mean 110 Farenheit degrees; it would be too hot 110 °C
More seriously, I don't know what was the hottest GP, but I recall that Patrese at Jacarepaguá 1982 had problems because of high temperature (I don't know how to explain better in English).

Ciao,
Guido

[isynge]

Originally posted by irvine99
Hockenheim testing one week before the Grand Prix 1991...



irvine99

Bizarre photo.

I have fond memories of being at Hockenheim in '91 in such sweltering weather that tent at campsite in Heidelberg was virtually uninhabitable... Never really think of Central Europe getting that sort of freakish weather.

Slightly OT - I remember that race as really ramming home the difference between the semi-auto transmissions on the Ferrari and Williams cars listening to them shift up after the first corner compared to the McLarens and others. Those with the auto boxes just shifted whereas you could really hear the gravelly neutral moment on the others. Better noise with the latter (in some ways) but the former seriously seemed to me to epitomise the white heat of technology. Good days one way or the other.

[Graham Clayton]

I have a dim recollection of practice for the 1969 Race of Champions (my first motor race aged 11) taking place in very thick fog, leading to either the rest of practice or the race, being postponed or delayed.

Swintex,
I also have a dim recollection that the Top 10 qualifying shootout at Bathurst a few years ago was delayed due to early morning fog. Can anyone conform this?

There were a couple of meetings held at the Windor RSL Speedway that were affected by rain.

In 1955, heavy rain had fallen in the morning. The track was considered to wet for the speedcars, so the entire meeting consisted of 7 stock car races. The promoters decicded that the crowd deserved to see some racing.

In the mid 1960's, heavy rain led to Turn 3 on the "long" track becoming a quagmire. All races were held using the "short" track instead.

[Graham Clayton]

Here is the only example I have found of either spectators, competitors or officials being injued by lightning at a motor sport venue.

Back in July 2002 eight persons were treated and released from three medical facilities after a lightning strike Thursday afternoon in a vendor display area outside Daytona International Speedway.

NASCAR Winston Cup Series practice for Saturday night's Pepsi 400 had begun at about 3 p.m. ET but was interrupted about 40 minutes later by a threat of rain, which began falling moments later. At that time, NASCAR and speedway officials were monitoring radar reports of rain and electrical storms surrounding the track.

When rain began falling, speedway officials evacuated the track's metal grandstands.

The strike occurred at about 4 p.m. in a vendor area located to the east of the tunnel entrance to the infield of the 2.5-mile track.

[d15b2]

ISTR posting this elsewhere on another thread, but for years the SCCA Runoffs at Road Atlanta were run on Thanksgiving weekend, usu around 25 November. While the North Georgia weather could be gorgeous then, it could also be awfully fickle.

Someone with better resources than I can pinpoint the year, but the BProd class (mostly Corvettes) thundered out of T5 and down the short straight directly into a very localized, but very severe, thunderstorm. Running on slicks, most of the front-runners were caught totally unprepared and slid straight off at the next turn, ending up in the woods. Those on the scene said it was amazing no one was killed in the carnage.

I think the guy around P9 was eventually declared the winner.

The story I heard was that The Authorities confiscated any film shot at the time because it was so shocking. Don't know if that part was true or not!

I was attending that year, spectating at T5 - about a quarter mile from T6.

The rain fell heavily and was, indeed, concentrated at the southern-most portion of the track - T6 and T7. Most of the fast qualifiers never made it to T7. The dreaded "smoke plume" confirmed the situation.

Witnessed the clean-up and, yes, the track "officials" were confiscating film - hence the lack of documentary photos. Once the last race of the day was completed, the track was open and (naturally) the site had to be investigated. Armco lined the run-off area, which was below ground-level of T6; no gravel traps so the cars never lost momentum until they reached the barrier.. The first cars in provided a launch-pad for the next few.

There were pine trees 20-25' beyond the barriers that bore the impact scars of some who made it that far. Said scars were at least 10' above ground level, with lots of debris on the ground, too.

Thankfully there were no life-threatening inuries, but that was a monumental multii-car incident.

[Andretti Fan]

An IMSA race in New Orleans in ( I believe) 1990 was shortened by rain and very high winds. The drivers tried to shoulder on but a hospitality tent was blown onto the track itself and the race was stopped.

( I still have this on VHS somewhere. Think I'll go rewatch it. Perry McCarthy has a pretty inpressive drive in a Spice that day IIRC.)

( Went and checked the On Track atricle. It was 1991)

Edited by Andretti Fan, 24 July 2009 - 20:17.

[Mal9444]

Maybe not extreme - but certainly unpleasant and tricky: the 1950 RAC TT at Dundrod. It started raining before the start and got steadily worse and virtually all the race was run in poring rain and high winds. Quite a few experienced drivers found the conditions not at all to their liking.

Some more-or-less unheard of youngster called Stirling Moss, in a borrowed XK120 and in his first major international sports car race, demonstrated what was at the time regarded as extraordinary skill in the wet...

I wonder what happened to him?