23 replies to this topic

[Frank S]

If you have followed a trail from some of my Web pages, or chanced upon the site as I did, running down leads to Torrey Pines subjects, you'll be familiar with KTUD. The author/owner posted thumbnails linked to photos made at California roadracing venues during the very early 1950s. He wrote, " The photos below were taken by Tom Cardin and lent to me by William Hoskins..."

After a two-year (or more) delay, I decided to find the photographer, if possible.

Tom Cardin is retired and pursuing his photography and steam-train interests in New Mexico. He was surprised to see his work on the Web, and could not remember his connection to Hoskins, whose location has yet to be discovered. He conceded permission to use his photos for research and educational purposes, and would license other uses. He scanned a few photos from his collection and sent a CD-ROM of higher-resolution versions, including some not on the KTUD site. You may remember the Ferrari GP car at Willow Springs and the "Uovo" at Torrey Pines that appeared here some weeks ago.

I expect to find time and inspiration to present Mr. Cardin's work on a Web site; meanwhile, although most photos are identified as to marque, driver, and venue, a number remain enigmatic to me (as they certainly were to Hoskins and KTUD: several misidentifications in the labels). There are others that may be of interest or amusing, and I can't resist the impulse to share them.


At Riverside International Raceway
I'd guess at the Times Sportscar GP race, October, 1960
( Edit: OMG; noe jose ! )
Cardin says "Formula 1 demo"
1



At Paramount Ranch, a familiar car
and a familiar driver,
But an unusual match
2

"- 2 - The Aston Martin is the one Bob Oker usually drove; could it be Richie Ginther as in the Bob Norton photo on Tam's Old Racecar Site?"


Paramount Ranch, unknown driver,
Cooper or Pooper?
3

"# 249 is The T-39 Cooper Climax 1500cc Bobtail of Joe Lubin, driven by Bob(?) Drake.
Joe's 'Estate' just sold this car to a guy in the UK. Must be the last one owner Bobtail left?" —Richard Neale


Maserati, Right?
Who?
Santa Barbara?
4

"Photo 4 - 5 - 6 were taken at the Bakersfield Road Race. They used the runways of Minter Field AFB.
I do not exactly know the year - could both be March 21, 1954 or 1955 (day and month ??).
Maserati A6GCS, racing # 9 is Bill David - Osca could be Harry Chapman or Skip Swartley.
Jim Seeley won the third race in the Cannon Mk IV." —corsaresearch


OSCA?
Who?
Sta Barb?
5

"Osca could be Harry Chapman or Skip Swartley." —corsaresearch



What? Who? Sta Barb?
6

"Number 6 is the Cannon Offy special but it doesn't look like Santa Barbara to me. The usual driver was an LA fireman named Jim something.... ({Seeley} I can't remember his last name even though I bought a Lancia B20 from him in the '60s." —antonvrs
"Jim Seeley won the third race in the Cannon Mk IV." —corsaresearch


SIATA? Who?
Torrey Pines
7

"Photo 7 is the 208CS Siata driven by Bob Murrell at Torrey Pines, July 4 - 1954." —corsaresearch


Bill Stroppe #3 Kurtis, ? #11 ?
Willow Springs
8

"Number 8- car #11 is the Pickford Jag special probably in it's Chevy powered guise driven by Don Hulette." —antonvrs


F-III #48
Willow Springs
9



There are slightly larger or different crops along with these, as well as
contact info for Tom Cardin, at
T N F Specials

I'll appreciate your thoughts.


Frank S,

Quoting the KTUD Proprietor: Disclaimer: These information are destined to
enjoy the history of the cars not to grab pictures from here and feature
elsewhere. The same goes for the details. Copyright isn't a meaningful
word any more, but be good and don't let me discover Your page featuring
info or pix taken from the KTUD Archive.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Frank S
At Riverside International Raceway
I'd guess at the Times Sportscar GP race, October, 1960
( Edit: OMG; noe jose ! )
Cardin says "Formula 1 demo"
1

Don't think so! That is certainly not a picture from 1960! Not with those tires, that engine, and that chassis! Perhaps from the 1960's, but more like 1966. It looks like a Type 33 in 1965/1966 livery. Anybody remember a GP demo during that timeframe?

[antonvrs]

Number 2 looks like Ken Miles in the DB3S- Oker's?

Number 6 is the Cannon Offy special but it doesn't look like Santa Barbara to me. The usual driver was an LA fireman named Jim something.... I can't remember his last name even though I bought a Lancia B20 from him in the '60s.

Number 8- car #11 is the Pickford Jag special probably in it's Chevy powered guise driven by Don Hulette.

Anton

[Don Capps]

Anton,

I am beginning to agree with you that #'s 4 thru 6 aren't at Goleta/Santa Barbara. They are all at the same place and race, even the same spot. However, they just are not lining up in my brain as SB. I could be mistaken, but something isn't clicking into place.

[Frank S]

Anton:
- 2 - The Aston Martin is the one Bob Oker usually drove; could it be Richie Ginther as in the Bob Norton photo on Tam's Old Racecar Site?

- 6 - Cannon Offy, thank you.

- 8 - Pickford Jag special, thank you. Is this the same car, or a different special from the Hulette-driven car that was white or pale blue in many outings?

Anton and Don:
I have trouble reconciling the 4 through 6 images with Santa Barbara, too; however, they are from KTUD, were labeled "sb9" or such, and I couldn't think of any other "sb" race courses. Then again, KTUD called some images even I recognized as Pebble Beach, "Torrey Pines".

Comparing the landscape to other photos in the group, it may be the "sb" pics were made at some other location on the Chino Airfield track. I also see Bakersfield (Minter Field airport) as a possibility. The Maserati appears in a Bakersfield program.


- 3 - Tam's Paramount Ranch pages give the #249 car as Joe Lubin's Bobtail Cooper, Bob Drake driving. Other frames from this series show a battle between Drake and Miles in the von Neumann 550RS, and say Drake won this chapter.


Frank S

[Don Capps]

Frank,

I was actually thinking of Minter/Bakersfield, but then again Chino is another option. You answered something I was going to try to root out, the Maserati being on the program.

Anton is good! I was still tripping through the musty gray unutilized brain cells trying to place some of these when his response got the few I was close on. I think that No. 8 is the same car Hulette drove elsewhere. You are correct about the paint job, that stopped me at first.

No. 9 looks familiar, but I can't put my finger on it. I almost want to say Harry of Autobooks, but....

[antonvrs]

Frank- you're probably right about the driver of the Aston- it was just a guess on my part. My first reaction when I looked at the photo was - "looks like Miles" so I went with it.

On the Pickford/Hulette special- it usually ran with racing number 204 and it was a light color. IIRC it was simply a rebodied XK120 which later got a small block Chevy. Hulette drove the hell out of that car and won his share of regional Cal Club races.
He was a musician, sort of sidetracked by racing I guess.
A mutual friend tells me he's living north of Santa Barbara and plays the organ in his church on Sundays.
Don-
The track in pics 4 thru 6- I've never been to Minter field but the background is too "deserty" for SB and the mountains are too far away.
Best regards,
Anton

[Richard Neale]

# 249 is The T-39 Cooper Climax 1500cc Bobtail of Joe Lubin, driven by Bob(?) Drake.
Joe's 'Estate' just sold this car to a guy in the UK. Must be the last one owner Bobtail left?

What happened to Drake? Vanished in about '62.

#48 could be Harry Morrow ~ but I only have Palm Springs programs.

Art Evans has a complete set of '50 West Coast programs.

[Frank S]

Originally posted by Richard Neale
# 249 is The T-39 Cooper Climax 1500cc Bobtail of Joe Lubin, driven by Bob(?) Drake.
Joe's 'Estate' just sold this car to a guy in the UK. Must be the last one owner Bobtail left?

What happened to Drake? Vanished in about '62.

#48 could be Harry Morrow ~ but I only have Palm Springs programs.

Art Evans has a complete set of '50 West Coast programs.

Thank you, Woody.

I'll be interested in Bob Drake, also.

Richard Trimble is listed in a #48 Cooper VI, Willow race program a year or two after the time I suspect these photos were made.

Maybe I'll get a chance to show these to Art at the Fab 50s Spring Fling at the Springs (Willow) on April 3.


Frank S

[Richard Neale]

Hi Frank ~ Good to here from you again ~ Bob Drake is quite a mystery ~ any info would be appreciated.

Did you see my Thread asking for pics of Bill Pollack in Coopers? Perhaps you could help ????

[Don Capps]

Anton,

Nos. 4 thru 6 = Palm Springs?

I wouldn't bet on it being Palm Springs, but I am beginning to really waffle on Minter Field/ Bakersfield. surprisningly, Harold Osmer has zip on Minter Field in his book when he looks at Bakersfield.

Dang, not having some of my "stuff" handy is making this a challenge! Until we finish the changes in the basement, most of what I have that might help is still stacked in the cartons & boxes -- again....

[antonvrs]

Don, and Frank-
How about March Air Force Base for 4 thru 6?
The mountains in the background don't look like Palm Springs to me.
The driver of the Cannon Offy special was usually Jim Seely. That was a very interesting car- it ran a laydown 270 Offy made of junk parts gathered from a bunch of local LA racers. As with all the Offy powered road racers that I'm aware of, they were never able to get it to run right.
It blew up all the time anyway 'cause it really was all parts that other guys had literally thrown away.
It was pretty radical: laydown twincam four valve dry sump injected motor in a coupe with gullwing doors in 1952!
Later they put a '55(?) Lincoln V8 in it and it still exists in that form. I think it may have run at some historic events in recent years. Or at least there was talk that they were going to, at any rate.

All my old Road and Tracks are in boxes somewhere, Don, so I know how you feel.

Anton

[Ron Scoma]

Could photograph Number 5 be Frank Bott?

Cheers,

Ron

[rdrcr]

Originally posted by Don Capps
Don't think so! That is certainly not a picture from 1960! Not with those tires, that engine, and that chassis! Perhaps from the 1960's, but more like 1966. It looks like a Type 33 in 1965/1966 livery. Anybody remember a GP demo during that timeframe?

I concur... many times the answer is in the details. That sure looks like a 1966/67 Oldsmobile Toronado in the background.



It could be Palm Springs... if one was facing Northeast and looking across the airport, you'd see low-lying hills like that and at about the same range... Though March AFB was also a good guess.

[corsaresearch]

Some info on the photographs :

Photo 4 - 5 - 6 were taken at the Bakersfield Road Race. They used the runways of Minter Field AFB.
I do not exactly know the year - could both be March 21, 1954 or 1955 (day and month ??).
Maserati A6GCS, racing # 9 is Bill David - Osca could be Harry Chapman or Skip Swartley.
Jim Seeley won the third race in the Cannon Mk IV.

Photo 7 is the 208CS Siata driven by Bob Murrell at Torrey Pines, July 4 - 1954.

Hope this might be of help.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by corsaresearch
Some info on the photographs :

Photo 4 - 5 - 6 were taken at the Bakersfield Road Race. They used the runways of Minter Field AFB.
I do not exactly know the year - could both be March 21, 1954 or 1955 (day and month ??).

Hooah!

I thank you for that information. Somewhere I have a layout for Minter Field, but wasn't it only used a few times and the layout different each time? Or is my memory on the fritz again?

[Darren Galpin]

I've no idea - but I do know that James Dean raced there.

[Frank S]

Originally posted by corsaresearch
Some info on the photographs :

Photo 4 - 5 - 6 were taken at the Bakersfield Road Race. They used the runways of Minter Field AFB.
I do not exactly know the year - could both be March 21, 1954 or 1955 (day and month ??).
Maserati A6GCS, racing # 9 is Bill David - Osca could be Harry Chapman or Skip Swartley.
Jim Seeley won the third race in the Cannon Mk IV.

Photo 7 is the 208CS Siata driven by Bob Murrell at Torrey Pines, July 4 - 1954.

Hope this might be of help.

Wonderful! Thank you.

Here's the Bakersfield/Minter program from May, 1955. I believe I have seen a different layout elsewhere, but haven't found that.

The processes of identification on this Forum may eventually redefine "obscure", if not eliminate it.


Frank S

[Richard Neale]

Is there any chance that there may be some pics of Steve McQueen's Cooper in this archive???

[Gary C]

thank you Woody --you beat me to it!!!

[Frank S]

Originally posted by Richard Neale
Is there any chance that there may be some pics of Steve McQueen's Cooper in this archive???

I believe MCQueen came along a little later than most of the materials I've found recently.

There is this one from a 1987 Del Mar program, but that's about it.

The magazine story mentions McQueen as winner of his race.


Frank S

[cabianca]

There is a problem in that Hoskins' story attributes all the pics to Torrey Pines, when, in fact, they were taken at Pebble Beach.

[Richard Neale]

Frank ~ what a wizard you are! Many thanks ~ the discrepancy on the later post on the pic locations is interesting ~ ???

[David Lawson]

Originally posted by Don Capps


Don't think so! That is certainly not a picture from 1960! Not with those tires, that engine, and that chassis! Perhaps from the 1960's, but more like 1966. It looks like a Type 33 in 1965/1966 livery. Anybody remember a GP demo during that timeframe?

Team Lotus were contracted to Dunlop tyres in 1965 and this car is on Firestones so I assume it is a 1966 or 1967 event.

David