20 replies to this topic

[fines]

Does anyone know where one can find a complete (or, at least near complete) list of type numbers for Automobiles (Tico) Martini? I have the Hodges book (A-Z of Formula Racing Cars), but it does not even include all the Formula 2 cars, as I found out when looking for the 1979 F2 designation - :

[Frank de Jong]

This is what I've got in my database:
F3 Martini MW 1 1968
F3 Martini MW 3 1969
F3 Martini MW 3 1970
F3 Martini MW 4 1970
F3 Martini MW 7 1971
F3 Martini MK 12 1973
F3 Martini MK 12 1973
F Renault Martini MK 14 1974
F Renault Martini MK 15 1975
F2 Martini MK 16-BMW 1975
F2 Martini MK 19 Renault 1976
F Renault Martini MK 20E 1977
F3 Martini MK 21B-Renault 1978
F3 Martini MK 21-Toyota 1977
F2 Martini MK 22-Renault 1977
F1 Martini MK 23 1978
F Renault Martini MK 26 1979
F3 Martini MK 27-Renault 1979
F3 Martini MK 31-Fiat 1981
F3 Martini MK 31-Toyota 1980
F3 Martini MK 34-Alfa 1981
F3 Martini MK 37-Alfa Romeo 1982
F3 Martini MK 39-Alfa Romeo 1983
F3 Martini MK 39-Toyota 1983
F3 Martini MK 42-Alfa Romeo 1984
F3 Martini MK 49-Spiess 1986
F3 Martini MK 52-VW 1987
F Renault Martini MK 54 1988
F Renault Martini MK 59 1990
F Renault Martini MK 61 1991
F3 Martini MK 73 1996
F3 Martini MK 9 1972
F3 Martini MK 9 1973
F2 Martini 001-BMW 1983
F2 Martini 002-BMW 1984
Now I've got the book "Tico martini" by Patrick Camus, this includes a small production list up to 1977 but that is full of errors. Besides, I must have another list somewhere but that will take time to be found.

[GIGLEUX]

Michael, where do you find a Martini in a 1979 F2 race?

[Holger Merten]

Sorry, I'm a greenhorn and not really interested in the younger race events, but are you talking about the Martini team from Martini located at the Nürburgring or a Martini team, sponsored by Martini? - Martini as known the italian alcoholic specialist?

[Frank de Jong]

Martini is (was?) a French builder of formula racing cars, even reaching formula one.
It has nothing to do with neither Willi Martini nor Martini sponsorship. And Pierluigi Martini is not involved either...

[Jeremy Jackson]

Don't know of any Martini that raced in F2 in 1979, but Marcel Tarres reaced his hillclimb-spec MK43 (fitted with BMW M12) at Pau in 1984.

Not sure if the MK43 was actually a hillclimb chassis by design, or converted from Formula Renault or similar. From Franks' list, I'd guess it wasn't F3.

[fines]

Thanks to Frank and his list, and to my few snippets I could find in time I compiled this rather lousy list:

Martini				 MW1	 1968? FFrance ??

Martini				 MW2	 1968? F3 ??

Martini				 MW3	 1969? FFrance ??

Martini				 MW4	 1969? F3 ??

Martini				 MW5	 1970? FFrance ??

Martini				 MW6	 1971? FRenault ??

Martini/Ford			MW7	 1971  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK8	 1972  FRenault

Martini/Ford			MK9	 1972  F3

Martini				 MK10	197?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK11	1973  FRenault

Martini/Ford			MK12	1973  F3

Martini				 MK13	197?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK14	1974  FRenault 

Martini/Renault		 MK15	1975  FRenault 

Martini/BMW			 MK16	1975  F2

Martini				 MK17	1976  FRenault ??

Martini				 MK18	1976? ???

Martini/Renault		 MK19	1976  F2

Martini/Renault		 MK20	1977  FRenault 

Martini/Toyota		  MK21	1977  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK21B   1978  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK21B   1978  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK22	1977  F2

Martini/Ford			MK23	1978  F1

Martini				 MK24	1978? ???

Martini				 MK25	1978? ???

Martini/Renault		 MK26	1979  FRenault 

Martini/Renault		 MK27	1979  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK27	1979  F3

Martini/BMW			 MK28	1979  F2

Martini				 MK29	19??  ???

Martini				 MK30	1980? SC1600 ??

Martini/Renault		 MK31	1980  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK31	1980  F3

Martini				 MK32	198?  ???

Martini				 MK33	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK34	1981  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK34	1981  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK35	198?  FSV

Martini				 MK36	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK37	1982  F3

Martini				 MK38	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK39	1983  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK39	1983  F3

Martini/BMW			 001	 1983  F2 (=MK40??)

Martini				 MK40	198?  ??? (=001??)

Martini				 MK41	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK42	1984  F3

Martini/BMW			 002	 1984  F2 (=MK43??)

Martini/BMW			 MK43	1984  F2 (=002??)

Martini				 MK44	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK45	1985  F3

Martini				 MK46	198?  ???

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK47	1985  FSV

Martini				 MK48	198?  SC1600 ??

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK49	1986  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK49	1986  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK50	1986  FSV

Martini				 MK51	198?  ???

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK52	1987  F3

Martini				 MK53	198?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK54	1988  FRenault

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK55	1988  F3

Martini/BMW			 MK56	1988? F2

Martini				 MK57	198?  SC ??

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK58	1989  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK59	1990  FRenault

Martini				 MK60	199?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK61	1991  FRenault

Martini				 MK62	199?  F2 ?

Martini/Renault		 MK63	1992? FRenault

Martini				 MK64	199?  ???

Martini				 MK65	199?  FRenault ?

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK66	1993? SC3000

Martini				 MK67	199?  ???

Martini				 MK68	199?  SC ??

Martini/BMW			 MK69	199?  F2

Martini				 MK70	199?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK71	1995  FRenault

Martini				 MK72	1996  FRenault ?

Martini/Opel			MK73	1996  F3

Martini/BMW			 MK74	1996? F2

Martini				 MK75	199?  F3 ??

Martini/Renault		 MK76	1998? FRenault

Martini/BMW			 MK77	199?  SC3000

Martini/Renault		 MK78	1999? FRenault

Martini/Opel			MK79	1999  F3

Martini				 MK80	????  ???

Martini				 MK81	????  SC ??

Martini				 MK82	????  SC1100 ??

This is a rather sketchy outline, perhaps we can improve on that! :wink: :wink: :nudge: :nudge:

Jean-Maurice, Fredy Amweg raced his MK28 in several circuit races as well as hill climbs, while the usual French brigade ran them on the hills.

Holger, I thought I had made that clear in my first post:

Originally posted by fines
Does anyone know where one can find a complete (or, at least near complete) list of type numbers for Automobiles (Tico) Martini? I have the Hodges book (A-Z of Formula Racing Cars), but it does not even include all the Formula 2 cars, as I found out when looking for the 1979 F2 designation - :

;)

[Holger Merten]

Thanks Frank for your explannation.

@Fines, I read your post clearly, but wasn't sure, thought Tico could maybe a nicname?

[ReWind]

Originally posted by Holger Merten
... wasn't sure, thought Tico could maybe a nicname?

It is a nickname. Real name is Renato (Italian origin).

[philippe7]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Martini is (was?) a French builder of formula racing cars, even reaching formula one.

Yes, Martini reached Formula 1......and , to the dismay of us french fans, did NOT succeed.....the neat 1978 F1 car was built for - and only driven by - René Arnoux, who was sort of a favourite at Martini after a distinguished early career in F.Renault, F.3 and F.2 at the wheel of Tico's cars....but against all the reasonable expectations due to the quality of the production in lower formulas, the F1 car struggled and never managed to look well, and after a suite of DNQ's or low placings , the not too well funded team called it a day and gave up mid-way through the 1978 season.....there were fears that René Arnoux's career would suffer from this very unauspicious start, but fortunately he was hired by John Surtees for the last two races of the season.....and as soon as he climbed on board the TS19 ( not one of the greatest cars ever, by all means...) René suddenly realised that there had been something very, very wrong with his Martini : there had been a big flaw in the design of the steering, and René had always thought that the steering of his car was so awfully heavy, but having nothing to compare against , he just struggled in silence thinking that that was the way F1 steerings were and that he had to get on with it......the moment he touched the Surtees steering wheel, and found it so much lighter , he realised that something must have been very wrong with the Martini....

Tico Martini later said that he had thought at some point, seeing how René struggled, to ask an experienced driver to give a try at his car, which would doubtlessly have made the fault appearent,
but that he didn't do it in order not to put too much pressure on Arnoux.....

Fortunately René put on two very good shows in the Surtees at the 1978 Candian and US GP's ( who was it who , after following him, said "he had never seen such a well driven Surtees" ......James Hunt ? ) and he went on to better things with Renault and Ferrari.

[fines]

Philippe, can you tell me when René Arnoux raced in Formula 3?

[chofar]

About the steering of the Formula 1, I recall reading it was a matter of distorsion of the column(litterally translated from french). That flaw had been corrected later by Martini, just to put the car on display at the factory entrance.

[Gert]

Originally posted by fines


...
Martini/Volkswagen MK52 1987 F3
...

Hi Fines,

may I add that there was also a
Martini/Alfa Romeo MK52 1987 F3

and perhaps more interesting:
Martini/Volkswagen MK60 is a Formula 3 car (1991) - a single car was raced in France by Emmanuel Collard for Elf Winfield (before they switched to a Reynard)

source: Auto-Hebdo

[fines]

Yes, that's great!

Thank you, Gert!

[Reyna]

On 1.979, Guy Frequelin won the French Hillclimb Championship with a Martini Mk25 with a BMW F2 engine.

This Mk25 was really a F2, or another minor formula with a F2 engine ???

It seems that this Martini was manufactured on 1.979, and perhaps also was an one-off.


Guy Frequelin with the Martini Mk25-BMW.
Photograph from L'automobile, 1.979 november issue.

Rafa

[Reyna]

The Martini Mk25 ran in 1.978 with F2 engine, but only in French Hillclimb races, for 1.979 was the Martini Mk28-ROC or BMW who ran in this country.

Both Martini does'nt appear in the Hodges "A-Z Formula Racing Cars", perhpas due to these cars does'nt ran in circuit.



Rafa

[fines]

Update:

Martini				 MW1	 1968  FFrance ??

Martini				 MW1	 1968  F3 ??

Martini				 MW2	 1969  FFrance ??

Martini				 MW3	 1969  F3 ??

Martini/Renault		 MW4	 1970  FFrance

Martini				 MW5	 1970  F3 ??

Martini				 MW6	 1971  FRenault ??

Martini/Ford			MW7	 1971  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK8	 1972  FRenault

Martini/Ford			MK9	 1972  F3

Martini				 MK10	197?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK11	1973  FRenault

Martini/Ford			MK12	1973  F3

Martini				 MK13	197?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK14	1974  FRenault 

Martini/Renault		 MK15	1975  FRenault 

Martini/BMW			 MK16	1975  F2

Martini/Renault		 MK17	1976  FRenaultFrance ?

Martini/Renault		 MK18	1976  FRenaultEurope ?

Martini/Renault		 MK19	1976  F2

Martini/Renault		 MK20	1977  FRenault 

Martini/Toyota		  MK21	1977  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK21B   1978  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK21B   1978  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK22	1977  F2

Martini/Ford			MK23	1978  F1

Martini				 MK24	1978  FRenault ??

Martini/BMW			 MK25	1978  F2

Martini/Renault		 MK26	1979  FRenault 

Martini/Renault		 MK27	1979  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK27	1979  F3

Martini/BMW			 MK28	1979  F2

Martini/ROC			 MK28	1979  F2

Martini				 MK29	19??  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK30	1980  FRenault

Martini/Renault		 MK31	1980  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK31	1980  F3

Martini				 MK32	198?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK33	1981  FRenault

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK34	1981  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK34	1981  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK35	198?  FSV

Martini/Renault		 MK36	1982  FRenault

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK37	1982  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK38	1983  FRenault

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK39	1983  F3

Martini/Toyota		  MK39	1983  F3

Martini/BMW			 001	 1983  F2 (=MK40??)

Martini				 MK40	198?  ??? (=001??)

Martini				 MK41	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK42	1984  F3

Martini/BMW			 002	 1984  F2 (=MK43??)

Martini/BMW			 MK43	1984  F2 (=002??)

Martini				 MK44	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK45	1985  F3

Martini				 MK46	198?  ???

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK47	1985  FSV

Martini				 MK48	198?  SC1600 ??

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK49	1986  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK49	1986  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK50	1986  FSV

Martini				 MK51	198?  ???

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK52	1987  F3

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK52	1987  F3

Martini				 MK53	198?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK54	1988  FRenault

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK55	1988  F3

Martini/BMW			 MK56	1988? F2

Martini				 MK57	198?  SC ??

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK58	1989  F3

Martini/Renault		 MK59	1990  FRenault

Martini/Volkswagen	  MK60	1990? F3

Martini/Renault		 MK61	1991  FRenault

Martini				 MK62	199?  F2 ?

Martini/Renault		 MK63	1992? FRenault

(Martini)			   MK64	1992  Peugeot 905 Spider

Martini				 MK65	199?  FRenault ?

Martini/Alfa Romeo	  MK66	1993? SC3000

Martini				 MK67	199?  ???

(Martini)			   MK68	1993  Peugeot 905 Spider

Martini/BMW			 MK69	199?  F2

Martini				 MK70	199?  ???

Martini/Renault		 MK71	1995  FRenault

Martini				 MK72	1996  FRenault ?

Martini/Opel			MK73	1996  F3

Martini/BMW			 MK74	1996? F2

Martini				 MK75	199?  F3 ??

Martini/Renault		 MK76	1998? FRenault

Martini/BMW			 MK77	199?  SC3000

Martini/Renault		 MK78	1999? FRenault

Martini/Opel			MK79	1999  F3

Martini/Opel			MK80	2000  F3

Martini				 MK81	200?  SC ??

Martini				 MK82	200?  SC1100 ??

With thanks to Frank, Gert, Rafa and Arnaud (starlet).

[marat]

Here the list published in "L'Automobile" febuary 1978.

1967: MW1 Driving school car
1968: MW1B F3
1969: MW2 F France
MW3 F3
1970: MK4 F France
MK4B Driving school car
MK5 F3
1971: MK6 F France
MK7 F3
1972: MK8 F Renault
MK8B F Renault
MK9 F3
MK10 F Renault
1973: MK11 F Renault
MK12 F3
MK12E Driving school car
MK13 F2 project
1974: MK14 F Renault
1975: MK15R F Renault
MK15RE F Renault Europe
MK16 F2
1976: MK17 F Renault
MK18 F REnault Europe
MK19 F2
1977: MK20 F Renault
MK20E F Renault Europe
MK21 F3
MK22 F2
1978: MK23 F1

Number of cars built until 1978: 256: 126 F Renault
37 F Renault Europe
36 F3
34 F France
16 cars for driving school
7 F2

[fines]

Thanks marat, superb list!

Originally posted by marat
MK13 F2 project

Was that perhaps the modified March 742 that Jacques Laffite raced in '74? Was that ever entered as a Martini? It sure looked like one...

[Reyna]

Originally posted by fines Was that perhaps the modified March 742 that Jacques Laffite raced in '74? Was that ever entered as a Martini? It sure looked like one... [/B]

The March 742 modified by Tico Martini = Martini Mk13 ????

[Leo]

It was announced this week in Magny-Cours that Guy Ligier has taken a shareholding in Automobiles Martini. As a result future Martini racecars will bare the name Ligier and a guy called Philippe Ligier (Guy's son?) will be Managing Director. Also Gilles Alegoet (former designer/engineer at Ligier, Sauber and Prost F1 teams) has joined as Technical coordinator and Rick Gorne (of Reynard and BAR fame) is the new Commercial Manager. The first new car will be the Ligier Mk84, a basic carbonfibre monocoque designed for racing schools.