62 replies to this topic

[ReWind]

The British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 1976 was the first one that was held on a sunday while previous events had taken place on saturdays.

Has motor racing on sundays just been unusual in the United Kingdom? Or was it in fact "verboten"?

[Tim Murray]

We did touch on this briefly in an earlier thread:

http://forums.atlasf...079#post1343079

where Rob29 posted:

Originally posted by Rob29 in the 'F2 F3 F3000 F Ford F 2000 etc TV history' thread
The RAC only authorised international meetings on Sundays in 1966. First was Motor Show 200 at Brands in Oct 66. First F1 was 67 Race of Champions.

Whilst not actually forbidden, sport on Sunday in the UK was frowned upon by organisations such as the Lord's Day Observance Society. Even today most top class football and rugby matches still take place on Saturdays. As you say, Brands moved their Grands Prix to Sunday in 1976, but Silverstone stuck with Saturday for several more years.

[byrkus]

Motorcycling Dutch TT is still held on saturdays.

[AndreasF1]

I believe, that the last Grand Prix that took place on a Saturday was Kyalami 1984. Can somebody confirm this?

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

I can't speak for the UK but here in Ontario, Canada(with its strong British cultural heritage), racing on Sunday was a taboo in the 1960's when Mosport opened and I attended my first motor races. The Lord's Day Act prohibited such activities on a Sunday so the feature always ran on a Saturday. The Act was repealled/ammended in the late 60's-early 70's to allow for Sunday sporting events and other cultural fair.

(It cost my high school buddy, Nick, big time in 1967. He skipped class without permission to go to Mosport and see the Friday qualifying for the CanAm. The HS principal phoned his Mom to find out why Nick wasn't at school. When Nick got home Friday evening, his Mom grounded him for race day. OUCH!!!)

[Lotus23]

Here in the States, I can't recall any universal prohibition on Sunday racing. But local exceptions still exist; Lime Rock is one which springs to mind.

Has NASCAR ever raced on Easter Sunday? or Mother's Day? Not that I can recall.

[Frank S]

As late as the mid-50s in the Los Angeles area Sunday was pretty much non-commercial. Beyond drugstores, theaters, restaurants, you were hard put to find anything else open for business. It didn't seem to inhibit the scheduling of roadracing out of town on the airports and all, but even those nearby places—Palm Springs, Santa Barbara, La Jolla—were 'closed'.

I am trying to recall when it was that open-on-Sunday became ordinary. I do remember a lot of head-shaking when it started.

Frank S

[SEdward]

Even minor club meetings at Brands Hatch on Sundays used to be interrupted for about an hour every morning while the Sunday service took place in Fawkham Green church.

Edward.

[Macca]

Thruxton circuit still has a "church break" on Sundays.


PWM

[Magee]

In Canada, here on the West Coast, the Westwood circuit was opened in 1959 and immediately came up against a local bylaw banning Sunday events with paid entrance. The track officials got around the bylaw by making the admittance cost a donation instead of a fixed cost. They phrased it as a recommended donation amount. Much like that of a church service. Eventually the bylaw was revoked.

[Lifeline]

IIRC Oulton Park only holds Saturday race meetings. I can remember as kid when my father used to race at Oulton on Good Friday and we would then have to drive down to Thruxton in an old AEC coach with the car in the back ready for Saturday qualifying and then have to wait until Easter Monday for the race.

[Ray Bell]

Longford was never held on a Sunday... though I don't know if 'Sunday observance' was ever an issue...

The Longford meeting was, however, always held on a long weekend, with the main event on Monday after preliminaries had been held on Saturday. Sunday was spent repairing and preparing for Monday, of course.

But around Australia there were places where the issue was raised. Most notable was Lowood, in the Laidley-Gatton area west of Brisbane, where the wartime airbase was rented periodically for weekends for racing.

It didn't take long for the popular church in the area (Lutheran?) to start whinging to the air force about the tenant's activities being in breach of the sacredness of the Sunday.

But the financial issues were very real. Those days, most people worked a five and a half day week, so Saturday racing was never going to be a financial success. This led, in turn, to the hunt for an alternative venue for the Australian Grand Prix when it was Queensland's turn to stage the event.

As Strathpine was well below the required standard, Lowood was the only circuit suitable in the state, and with this group of opposers remaining persistent they simply had to go elsewhere.

So was born Leyburn, many miles further from Brisbane, but not so far that a huge crowd didn't make it to the Grand Prix.

Later the Club bought the Lowood property and no longer did they have to bow to the whims of the Air Force people and their desire to not upset the local church groups. Racing was on Sundays until the circuit closed in 1966.

Wasn't the Dutch Grand Prix (for cars...) also held on Saturdays during the sixties?

[xkssFrankOpalka]

Although not as bad, when I raced at Milwaukee State Fair Pk the rule was no engines started before noon Sunday. Dont know if thats still in place.

[eldougo]

Was that the reason the raced Bikes on Saturday & Cars on Monday at Bathurst at Easter time.

[Ray Bell]

No, Doug... Easter is a 4-day weekend, embracing the 'holy days' of Good Friday and Easter Sunday... if there were ever days that churches might complain about racing it would be these. But practice for the bikes was always on Good Friday, and for the cars on Easter Sunday.

It was convenient because the bikes and the cars had to be separated... CAMS wouldn't let the bikes run at a car meeting... though it probably goes beyond CAMS' time anyway...

[macr]

As I recall, major sporting events in Great Britain were frowned on on Sundays. While it was not illegal to hold events on a Sunday it was illegal to charge admission on Sunday. That was the real reason most major events were held on Saturdays.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by macr
As I recall, major sporting events in Great Britain were frowned on on Sundays. While it was not illegal to hold events on a Sunday it was illegal to charge admission on Sunday. That was the real reason most major events were held on Saturdays.

It was cricket which came up with the solution to this: in the mid-60s there was a touring side called the Rothmans International Cavaliers, which played 40-over Sunday games against otherwise unemployed first class counties. The matches were televised on BBC2 and the admission charge problem was overcome by charging a much larger than normal amount for a "compulsory" scorecard/programme. County members got a free scorecard IIRC. Cavalier cricket led directly to the Sunday League, but the charging solution persisted for some time after that.

[WGD706]

Originally posted by Lotus23
Here in the States, I can't recall any universal prohibition on Sunday racing. But local exceptions still exist; Lime Rock is one which springs to mind.

I've often wondered if this was because there is a church situated right across from the track; also, their noise restrictions mandate the use of mufflers on all cars.
I think Bridgehampton had some rules about not firing up motors before a certain time on Sundays.
Warren

[panzani]

I've just read in the news the Pope said, last Friday, in Vatican City: "Sundays must be reserved to God, not to sport or entertainment.".
He also said: "When Sundays become 'leisure weekends', focusing on entertainment and sports, they just weakens family and faith in God.".

I just think his words could help us with the answer to this thread, if he thinks this in the beginning of the 21st century, I can just imagine what was thought in the beginning of the 20th one...

P.S. These were probably not his literal words, they were translated to Portuguese from Italian, and I have translated them to English from the Portuguese version.

[Rob29]

Strange,as most catholic countries have accepted sunday sport for most of the 20th century.Protestants seem to have been the ones with problems in this area.

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by AndreasF1
I believe, that the last Grand Prix that took place on a Saturday was Kyalami 1984. Can somebody confirm this?

No, I think it was South Africa 1985, on October 19th. The last British one was held at Silverstone on July 16th 1983.

Ciao,
Guido

[Jack-the-Lad]

Just last Sunday I attended the funeral service of Beulah ("Boo") Smith. Her late husband, Reg, was the Sebring 12 Hours race secretary for decades. He was Alec Ullman's right hand from the beginning and managed the race in a very low-profile way.

Reg and Boo were already married when Ullman recruited Reg. Reg sought Boo's approval before accepting the position. Boo was a devout, practicing Christian for all of her 86 years. She gave Reg her enthusiastic support, asking only that if he could have sufficient influence, that he run the race on Saturday rather than Sunday. To this day, the Sebring 12 Hour is one of the few major races run only on Saturday every year.

The minister presiding at Boo's funeral related this story. Sensing that it could be apocryphal I asked Reg and Boo's sons, Reggie and Doug. They both maintain that the story is true. Reg and Boo were wonderful people, and both are missed by all who knew them.

Jack

[hinnershitz]

Didn't they use to run the Prescott Hillclimbs on Sunday, regularly since 1938? I have a lot of dates for Prescott on a Sunday (without remembering the exact sources). I even seem to remember reading somewhere, that this was due to the fact of the whole track being located on private grounds, belonging to the BOC. Can anybody confirm this? And did they charge admission?

[Deputy]

For me, the most interesting thing about the whole matter is that the sunday observance is of pagan origin and non-biblical. Bible on both OT and NT speaks about the holiness of the seventh-day Sabbath, in english called Saturday. (Math. 24:20 example)

[Ray Bell]

A valid point... and, of course, Matthew 24:20 is about what Jesus said before his death...

The explanation of how his death affected this is shown in Colossians 2:16 & 17, with which you compare Galations 4:10.

And, of course, the adoption of a 'sabbath' on Sundays was in keeping with many things early 'christianity' did to popularise itself among people with various religious traditions...

[Lee Nicolle]

Was that the reason the raced Bikes on Saturday & Cars on Monday at Bathurst at Easter time.

You could not start a race engine before 8? am at both PI or Sandown. Field for the first race had to be towed to the dummy grid.

Is this still the case?

[Derwent Motorsport]

It's going back to when i was a kid but at some point I thin k you paid to park your car and not an admission fee?

[Dipster]

I have only just seen this thread and have not ploughed through it. But I am all for secular states where the religious beliefs of some should hold no sway over others. So if you want to work on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday then that's fine, Or whatever other restrictions religions might wish to impose on others. So if Sunday racing offends you, stay away. Simple. 

[Charlieman]

You could not start a race engine before 8? am at both PI or Sandown. Field for the first race had to be towed to the dummy grid.

Is this still the case?

I remember the same practice at Teretonga a few years ago. Very common in the UK. I guess that sound travels a long way where there are flat and relatively open spaces.

[BRG]

I have only just seen this thread and have not ploughed through it. But I am all for secular states where the religious beliefs of some should hold no sway over others. So if you want to work on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday then that's fine, Or whatever other restrictions religions might wish to impose on others. So if Sunday racing offends you, stay away. Simple. 

The fact is that in the UK at that time, there was very little open on Sundays.  Shops weren't allowed to open, with the exception of garden centres and few other oddities. Motor sport wasn't alone as other professional sports were also not allowed on Sundays probably for the same reason - charging for admission. The change came democratically when the majority of the public (and big businesses) decided that Sunday Observance wasn't wanted anymore.  But for a long time, most people had been content with it.

[PayasYouRace]

Are there any known examples of no racing taking place on Saturdays in a primarily Jewish region?

[Gene]

Here in the US, the state of Connecticut has been enforcing its “Blue Laws” prohibiting racing on Sundays at Lime Rock for as long as I can remember. It forces all the SCCA club racing into Friday, Saturday or in some cases sharing a three day holiday weekend with the professionals. The IMSA, Sports car race, held over the May, Memorial Day weekend, is a standard event on the US racing calendar, sharing the holiday TV spotlight with Monaco and Indy.

[Tim Murray]

Are there any known examples of no racing taking place on Saturdays in a primarily Jewish region?

The ‘Grand Prix of Israel’ was an F2 race originally scheduled to take place at a circuit near Ashkelon on 21st November 1970, which was a Saturday. After protests from religious organisations and politicians the race was moved to Sunday 22nd, but in the end never took place due to lack of crowd control.

GP of Israel 1970

[AJB]

IIRC Oulton Park only holds Saturday race meetings. I can remember as kid when my father used to race at Oulton on Good Friday and we would then have to drive down to Thruxton in an old AEC coach with the car in the back ready for Saturday qualifying and then have to wait until Easter Monday for the race.

A bit late in replying, but there was racing at Oulton Park on Good Friday back in the 60s and 70s. I got caught out years later when I turned up on Good Friday (and I wasn't the only one!) only to find out it was now on Easter Monday.

[pete53]

I have a fixture list for UK race meetings in 1963 in front of me. Goodwood, Silverstone, Oulton and Aintree all ran their events on Saturdays ( apart from bank holiday meetings). Whereas Snetterton, Brands and Mallory, with odd exceptions, ran meetings on Sundays. This applied to cars and motor bikes. So, Sunday racing was not unusual in that era.

 

In fact motor racing was, in the sporting world, something of an exception in having events on Sundays. Football, rugby, cricket, horse-racing, athletics etc. all avoided the Sabbath back then.

 

As for admission charges, Mallory Park were certainly making a charge in 1963, as Autosport has an advertisement for a Sunday club meeting at the circuit showing an admission charge. Another ad. shows Snetterton making a basic £1 charge for each car load, meanwhile Brands Hatch was also charging per car. 

[Dick Dastardly]

In the 60s, in Cumbria, Barbon Hill Climb ran on a Sat, the following day was the Leighton Hall one.

And I went to a Croft race meeting on a Sun in May '66 

[Bikr7549]

Here in the US, the state of Connecticut has been enforcing its “Blue Laws” prohibiting racing on Sundays at Lime Rock for as long as I can remember. It forces all the SCCA club racing into Friday, Saturday or in some cases sharing a three day holiday weekend with the professionals. The IMSA, Sports car race, held over the May, Memorial Day weekend, is a standard event on the US racing calendar, sharing the holiday TV spotlight with Monaco and Indy.

When I raced at LRP in the 70's there were often no engine starts allowed on Saturday before 8 am. As I recall there was a statewide ban of any racing on Sunday's-the stock car oval tracks ran their events on Saturday evenings, probably more so as that was a popular time for people to go out, but I may be wrong on that. In recent years LRP has been fighting the Sunday racing ban.

 

When I was a kid the blue laws banning the opening of many stores was still in force. Mom and pop stores could be open but nothing large. That changed one winter (78 maybe) when an ice storm took the power out for a week and the larger stores (who had their own generators) were allowed to open on Sunday. We all got used to to that and the stores remained open.

[Lee Nicolle]

When I think back 50+ years ago most sport inc motorsport was Friday or Saturday, Sat night.

Footbrawl was Sat Afternoon [where it should stay] Cricket tests did not happen Sunday.

Though it may only have been a metro area thing. Some speedways ran on Sunday and road race events that were outside the metro area as well. 

These days said venues are or nearly are Metro which at a guess is around 60k long north to South  and 40k East. West is the ocean!

[TerryS]

I recall that in the early days of the Tasman Series the New Zealand races were on Saturdays. Here in OZ we would hear the results on Saturday afternoon because of time difference.

It was either in NZ or the UK, I can't recall which, that when Sunday racing started they could charge, BUT there had to be a free (ie no charge) gate.

I can't recall why you would pay if there was a free gate.

[Ray Bell]

There was, in fact, a 'free gate' at Warwick Farm...

 

I guess it was for this purpose. It was located somewhere down by the creek, near Creek Corner, and could only be reached by boat.

[Derwent Motorsport]

In the 60s, in Cumbria, Barbon Hill Climb ran on a Sat, the following day was the Leighton Hall one.

And I went to a Croft race meeting on a Sun in May '66 

At the time they were in Westmorland, some years before Cumbria was formed. 

Even now at Croft you can't start engines before midday on a Sunday.

[Derwent Motorsport]

At Silverstone, was there a parking charge was well as an admission fee?  I can remember hundreds of cars parked on verges and then later farmers were opening their fields for car parking. 

[BRG]

Even now at Croft you can't start engines before midday on a Sunday.

How does the BTCC manage that with three races and a full supporting cast?  Or do they have some noisy days allowance?

[Dick Dastardly]

They're allowed so many noisy days each year, caused by the 'dispute' a few years ago. So Croft have had to streamline  / cut back on the no of meetings each year and ensure those that are held bring in a sizeable income. Even Rallycross has now gone 

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 30 December 2020 - 13:09.

[PayasYouRace]

How does the BTCC manage that with three races and a full supporting cast? Or do they have some noisy days allowance?

Checked my programme from 2014. First race on Sunday was BTCC race one, starting at 12:02.

Come to think of it, I remember not having to get up too early to reach the track that day, and still had plenty of time to explore and find a good spot to watch the race.

[bsc]

How does the BTCC manage that with three races and a full supporting cast?

In some years, not all of the regular supporting championships appear at Croft, which frees up some time (similar arrangements also occur for the BTCC meeting at Oulton).

On the subject of Oulton, it is limited to four Sundays a year - with no track action before midday. These go to the BTCC, the Gold Cup and British Superbikes. This explains why British GTs race on the Saturday and Monday of a Bank Holiday weekend.

[Stephen W]

On the subject of Oulton, it is limited to four Sundays a year - with no track action before midday. These go to the BTCC, the Gold Cup and British Superbikes. This explains why British GTs race on the Saturday and Monday of a Bank Holiday weekend.

 

Thruxton also used to have a similar restriction for their Easter meetings with Practice on Saturday and racing on Monday.

 

PS I seem to recall a certain Autosport photographer was at Oulton on Good Friday, Thruxton Saturday, Snetterton Sunday and back at Thruxton on Monday!

Edited by Stephen W, 31 December 2020 - 08:58.

[pacificquay]

Thank god we are generally no longer in thrall to the restrictions of the religious lobby.

[BRG]

Thank god we are generally no longer in thrall to the restrictions of the religious lobby.

I think it was more about the noise disrupting church services than any deeply held religious objections.  And the noise issue hasn't gone away

[GazChed]

Thruxton, which is heavily limited in the number of days it can hold racing, has a Church Break for over an hour on Sunday mornings when racing is held.