27 replies to this topic

[mcerqueira]

Does anyone know any site with a video of an F1 driver performing heel'n'toe? I remember watching on TV a long time ago and it was fascinating to see that feet ballet!

Nowdays it's a lost art, what with auto gearboxes....

[MortenF1]

You'll have more luck looking for videos with rally drivers I think....
And their heel n' toeing is even more impressive.

[xflow7]

I seem to recall that in 2002 Dario's Champcar had a camera in the footbox that they'd cut to occasionally. Unfortunately, it was after the legalization of traction control, so it wasn't as impressive as it could have been. Anyway, could be some snippets of that floating around.

[mach3]

try this website... the video is called fancy footwork. The video is 11.9Mb. Also has a video of a lap of the Nordschleife.


www.radicalextremesportscars.com/gallery/index.php

[swaction]

I have a video of the old Audi Quattro from the early 80's some place. It has an interview with what sounds to be a sweedish driver and a whole bunch of old-skool rally scenes. It's also got a great piece of foot well action with the feet dancing all over the pedals.

I'll see if I can get the guys @ work to convert it to AVI - it's about 30 mins long - I'll try and get both the long one and just the footwork online.. it's just amazing!

[mcerqueira]

The Radical video is pretty cool It's hard to get these things on the web! I'll keep on looking and post the results if I find something. Rally videos have even more foot work because there's the left foot braking thing but even rally is getting dumbed down due to auto gearboxes.

It would be interesting to watch some footage of F1 nowadays... accelerate... brake.... accelerate... brake.... ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

[schuy]

Originally posted by mcerqueira

It would be interesting to watch some footage of F1 nowadays... accelerate... brake.... accelerate... brake.... ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

Not to mention seeing some of the more sophisticated driver's style of trail-braking and other techniques...

Mach3 thanks for the link!

[wegmann]

I enjoyed watching Mark Martin's footwork while hustling a stock car around Infineon Raceway (formerly Sears Point) a year or two ago. I was surprised that he used the clutch on upshifts, but not on downshifts. So he wasn't actually heel-and-toeing at all - his left foot handled the clutching and braking, and his right foot remained on the throttle. Still cool to watch him match the revs on downshifts, though.

[wegmann]

Okay, I just watched mach3's video. Awesome. I find it strange that he *sort of* presses the clutch on upshifts, it almost looks like an unconscious movement, because that can't possibly be doing anything. Am I wrong?

[mcerqueira]

I think I remember reading in EVO magazine that you don't need to use the clutch on upshifts on the Radical and on similar cars (Like the Palmer Jaguar JP1). Perhaps just a "sniff" of clutch and lifting the throttle, that’s what is doing...

[TankSlapper]

If you watch the classic racing movie "Grand Prix" you'll see some nifty heel and toeing.

[dbalban]

The Radical has a Suzuki Hayabusa 1500cc (and the turbo variant) bike engine. Therefore cluctching isn't absolutely necessary on one off runs. Clutching a bike engine gearbox is only needed on upshifts is only really done for endurance purposes so as not to strain the engine too much. Downshifting does however require the clutch.

[Ned]

the link is cool!

[mcerqueira]

Yes, he only lifts the throttle a wee-bit and dabs the clutch, lightning fast. Do that on your average road car and you've got gearbox soup!

[Greg Locock]

"Clutching a bike engine gearbox is only needed on upshifts is only really done for endurance purposes so as not to strain the engine too much. Downshifting does however require the clutch. "

Bike gearboxes must have changed since the eighties. I only used the clutch to move off, after that it was all clutchless, always. Never stuffed a box either.

[ferrarifan2000]

the thing that bothered me with the 'radical' heel and toe video was that the driver had his foot resting on the clutch when he was accelerating. it seems to me that that is a sure fire way to burn a clutch up in a few laps. any thoughts?

bg

[PLAYLIFE]

I recall there being in-car footage of one of the Japanese drivers at Suzuka in one of the Gp's from the late 80's or early 90's. It would have been Nakajima or perhaps Suzuki, possibly as late as 1993.

There's a clip floating around the internet of Ari Vatanen's footwork in an early 80's clip, and also I think on the video of Ari Vatanen at Course de Pikes Peak in the Peugeot 405T16.

[Croaky]

There's a great video of on-board action from Walter Rohrl's Audi Quattro on Audi's German site. It includes views of his feet as he right-foot brakes up to corners, heel 'n' toeing down the gearbox, then left-foot brakes around the corner, his right foot now on the gas pedal. It's really heart-stopping when you see how close he gets to the spectators!

http://www.audi.com/...on/bild_ton.jsp
Scroll down to the videostream that says "Mit Walter Röhrl durch das Niemandsland der Physik"

I was utterly obsessed with Audi Quattros back in '84. Still am.

There were some excellent shots of the footwell in the coverage of the Bathurst 1000kms. Some drivers were doing clutchless upshifts when going directly forward or back on the H-pattern of the gearbox (e.g. 3rd back to 4th) but dabbing the clutch when going across the H-pattern (eg 2nd across and forward to 3rd) apparently to make sure they didn't change "up" into a lower gear! One of the commentators made the remark that you shouldn't try this in your road car or you'll leave the gearbox internals strewn along a hundred metres of the supermarket car park.

[mcerqueira]

Still searching for some gems, let's hope I struck gold!

I'm curious with F1/Cart footage because although for xample rally has more "feet-dance" the feet action on a formula car must be that more lightning fast, clutch, engines, etc, being much more "on the edge"...

And if I find some Ayrton Senna footage...

[schuy]

Originally posted by wegmann
Okay, I just watched mach3's video. Awesome. I find it strange that he *sort of* presses the clutch on upshifts, it almost looks like an unconscious movement, because that can't possibly be doing anything. Am I wrong?

Yeah, it reminded me of the first time I drove a Formula Palmer Audi.
Even though I didn't have to depress the clutch during upshifts I found my foot constantly "twitching" on upshifts.

[Croaky]

I see what you're getting at, mcerqueira. I haven't found any F1 footwell shots either, although I'm convinced I've seen them on TV in the past.
I'm not so sure that F1 footwork would be a great deal faster than Group B rally though. After all, that was the days of 500bhp and 0-100km/h times of around 2.5 seconds. The Audi Quattro was renowned as being utterly brutal on the limit, the 4wd system gave enormous grip but it wasn't even remotely progressive when it started to slide, it just suddenly let go and wrapped itself round the nearest tree.

[alexbiker]

Originally posted by ferrarifan2000
the thing that bothered me with the 'radical' heel and toe video was that the driver had his foot resting on the clutch when he was accelerating. it seems to me that that is a sure fire way to burn a clutch up in a few laps. any thoughts?

bg

Depends on the clutch - my Focus doesn't disengage for a good inch of pedal movement - can happily rest my foot on the pedal and it's not going to cook it. After all, the clutch is only going to burn out if it's slipping.

Alex

[swaction]

There's a great video of on-board action from Walter Rohrl's Audi Quattro on Audi's German site. It includes views of his feet as he right-foot brakes up to corners, heel 'n' toeing down the gearbox, then left-foot brakes around the corner, his right foot now on the gas pedal. It's really heart-stopping when you see how close he gets to the spectators!

These snippets are gold! - They are on the VHS I was referring to before, but seeing them online is marvelous! There is a whole 20min documentary on the Audi Quattro and it's success in the 80's...

[swintex]

While honestly not wanting to take anything away from Phil Abbott's great Nordschleife lap, these numbers occurred to me last night.

According to the Nuburgring website Abbott's lap works out about 108mph, while Stefan Bellof's 956 record is 125mph.

So if I can get Windows Media Player to play about 15% faster…

[Kalle_hopp]

I think they mean the track record for road legal cars !? The records from Bellof and Jochen were on shorter length during rebuild of the track. For the long(22.835) track its Niki Lauda that holds the "no-limit" lap record of 6"58'6.

Found a picture of the speed/rpm from the radicals track record lap: http://www.radicalmo...e/lg_nsdata.gif

[swintex]

Sorry, I didn't make my point more clearly.

The Radical is a fantastic machine and to do a 7.19 with only one flying lap is incredible.

The video is pretty awesome at that speed, it just set me to wondering what the in-car footage from Bellof's 956 would have looked like.

I doubt if the view out would be quite so good though.

[mcerqueira]

Originally posted by Croaky
I see what you're getting at, mcerqueira. I haven't found any F1 footwell shots either, although I'm convinced I've seen them on TV in the past.
I'm not so sure that F1 footwork would be a great deal faster than Group B rally though. After all, that was the days of 500bhp and 0-100km/h times of around 2.5 seconds. The Audi Quattro was renowned as being utterly brutal on the limit, the 4wd system gave enormous grip but it wasn't even remotely progressive when it started to slide, it just suddenly let go and wrapped itself round the nearest tree.

I've watched the Audi videos a few times on TV to, mighty impressive of course. Although I love rally I love F1 even more, and it's much harder to get "footage" than with rally. Besides, the action on a F1 car must be more "cirurgical", cramped, small pedals, engine and pedal travel more spiky... (?)

Anyway, I've discovered another video, this time from a Subaru Impreza on a track-day. Educational to see the difference of response and feet action speed (pedals, engine, etc) between a track missile like the radical and a more "normal" car like the Subaru. Awesome skill nonetheless...


http://www.teamsmr.c...otbox Small.wmv

[mcerqueira]

...and BTW, some group C videos would be awesome to watch to