42 replies to this topic

[thomaskomm]

Hello!
I love this wonderful race car. I remember of the 1000 KM of Nürburgring 1970 and 1971 watched this cars runnin´and lovin. The beautiful noises from the 8 Cylinder Boxer, blue race cars. Have you any information or website about the Porsche 908/3 or /2?
I´m thankfully about responses.

Thomas

[Holger Merten]

Sorry Thomas I don't know a website.

But I agree, the 908 was a wonderful car. As well as the other Porsches of this era. Starting with the 904 to the 910 and ending with the 917.

BTW: Could somebody explain the differencies between the 908, 908/2 and the 908/3? Thanks in advance.

[Rob Semmeling]

@Holger: have a look here:

http://forum.racesim...ght=porsche 908

[Holger Merten]

A wonderful thread.... thank you, Rob.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

I agree, the 908 was an amazing car. The 908/3 in particular, although one of the most frightening with the driver position in the very front of the chassis.

Perhaps a PM to Mozart (aka Brian Redman) who drove the 908/3 would reveal more about this car.

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by Holger Merten
A wonderful thread.... thank you, Rob.

quote from the "other" thread:

The 'Sole' term comes from the fact that the top of the body is so frigging flat on that car, its kind of like the sole of a shoe. Dunno where they got the fish thing from, I guess it does kind of look like a fish laying on its side...

Holger, how would you spell that special part of a shoe in German?

Well, of course "Sohle"- and I do not believe that the term "sole" in regard to the 908 has anything to do with it.

Actually I never heard this term when I was around at the Ring in 1969 when they tested the
car.

[Udo K.]

.. and here are some photos of the car in 1969:

http://www.motorspor...hotos_1969.html

[wibblywobbly]

Ahhhhhhh, the GIANT killer!

[scags]

great pictures, Udo. I love the way the guts of the car stick out behind the body work!

[Holger Merten]

Udo, I know that some Porsches had nicnames, like the Moby Dick. But I never heard about Sohle or something like that. But I'm not the Porsche specialist, perhaps somebody helps us with that term?

[Holger Merten]

@ Udo: I am a Porsche specialist.


Sole = Flunder. The car had a nicname.

[Mark Bennett]

Originally posted by Udo K.


quote from the "other" thread:

The 'Sole' term comes from the fact that the top of the body is so frigging flat on that car, its kind of like the sole of a shoe. Dunno where they got the fish thing from, I guess it does kind of look like a fish laying on its side...

FYI.
There is a fish called a "Sole" - It is a skate (flat-fish) it is similar to a Ray - except it starts out as a regular fish when young, and one eye moves to the other side as it matures, and swims with both eyes facing up.

Edit:
I've now taken a look at the other thread and soemone has expalined it (as above).
But hopefully to clarify:

Flounder = a type of Sole = a type of Flatfish.
Shoes have nothing to do with it!

[barrykm]

Thanks for starting this thread Thomas - I couldn't agree more, what a "pure" racing car.

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by Mark Bennett


FYI.
There is a fish called a "Sole" - It is a skate (flat-fish) it is similar to a Ray - except it starts out as a regular fish when young, and one eye moves to the other side as it matures, and swims with both eyes facing up.

Edit:
I've now taken a look at the other thread and soemone has expalined it (as above).
But hopefully to clarify:

Flounder = a type of Sole = a type of Flatfish.
Shoes have nothing to do with it!

Yes in German the car was named Flunder, which is a flat-fish.

[Holger Merten]

Time for advertising, here are some great pictures from the Nürburgring. Thats a track, wow.


Gerhard Mitter/Udo Schütz


Jo Siffert/Brian Redman


Lins/Attwood


BTW, does anybody have a picture of a 908 Bergspyder. I think the Bergspyder was the last succesful Porsche hillclimber. Any results, drivers or other informations?

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by Mark Bennett
Shoes have nothing to do with it! [/B]

That is, what I wanted to say.

[JacnGille]

Harvey Templeton- rookie with 56!

Ah...another Harvey fan!

[Pedro 917]

Here are 2 pictures from the Historic Spa 6hours event of 2003 :

Porsche 908-2 "Flunder" in Revson-McQueen/Sebring colors :



and a 908-3 fitted (with a 6-cylinder engine !), in Elford-Waldegaard Targa 1970 colors :



and here is my hero just before the start of the 1971 Targa Florio (Porsche picture)

[Frank S]

Originally posted by Pedro 917

Porsche 908-2 "Flunder" in Revson-McQueen/Sebring colors :

Here is McQueen in McQueen colors at Holtville, April 1970 (?); Phil Binks photo.




Frank S

[diego]

I heartily recommend fellow TNF'er Karl Ludvigsen's book on the subject... I just finished reading the first volume. For the first time in my life, I now understand the history of the 908 series... my favorite Porsche!

[wibblywobbly]

Originally posted by diego
I heartily recommend fell TNF'er Karl Ludvigsen's book on the subject... I just finished reading the first volume. For the first time in my life, I now understand the history of the 908 series... my favorite Porsche!

What is the title of this book?

[diego]

"Porsche: Excellence was Expected"

The best Porsche book ever, and one of the best automotive works, period.

[diego]

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Here are 2 pictures from the Historic Spa 6hours event of 2003 :

Porsche 908-2 "Flunder" in Revson-McQueen/Sebring colors :



and a 908-3 fitted (with a 6-cylinder engine !), in Elford-Waldegaard Targa 1970 colors :



and here is my hero just before the start of the 1971 Targa Florio (Porsche picture)

... and that's Redman behind Pedro, right?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by diego
"Porsche: Excellence was Expected"

The best Porsche book ever, and one of the best automotive works, period.

It's known as "Hernia was Expected" round these parts. A mighty, mighty piece of work - excellent photographs and perceptive words about pretty much everything that's ever worn a Porsche badge (and a lot of stuff that didn't, but was done by Porsche consultancy...).

If you can't afford it, you might enjoy Peter Morgan's "Porsche In Motorsport: The First Fifty Years", which covers the tangled genealogy of Porsche sports racers in considerable detail with many nice colour pics.

[cjpani]

Luc, what an absolutely amazing picture (Pedro´s)
I had never seen this picture.

Thanks for posting

Carlos

[T54]

If you like 908's, look HERE...
At least, they DO run too, not just sit on a shelf...

T54

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Pedro 917


and a 908-3 fitted (with a 6-cylinder engine !), in Elford-Waldegaard Targa 1970 colors :

Didn't Elford drive with Herrmann and Waldegaard with Attwood? I think these are the Elford-Herrmann colours.

[thomaskomm]

Originally posted by JacnGille
Harvey Templeton- rookie with 56!

Ah...another Harvey fan!

YES!

Thomas

[Holger Merten]

Ahh, never realized, that we are so many Porsche 908 in Gulf colours Fans on TNF? Wonderful.

[karlcars]

Thanks a lot for the plug for my Porsche book! We've just received the second printing of the new edition, which I'll be signing at Rennsport Reunion II at Daytona later this month.

We split the new book into three volumes specifically to avoid the "Hernia Was Expected" problem. Each one is still pretty hefty!

I'm sure everyone knows that the scheme with the 908/3 to use playing-car suit symbols to identify the cars was taken from the Austro-Daimler "Sascha" cars designed by Ferdinand Porsche and raced in the Targa Florio early in the 1920s. This was the ida of Tony Lapine, who has a fine sense of Porsche history.

[Holger Merten]

It's always the same. Although Porsche is not my favorite make, the name is more than only Porsche. And that's my problem, I try to not buy a (good) Porsche book, but after all I heard about "EWE" it looks like I have to have this english books in my board.

I hope there are some more books available? Karl?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by karlcars

We split the new book into three volumes specifically to avoid the "Hernia Was Expected" problem. Each one is still pretty hefty!

Carrying all three volumes two miles home from work in slipcase and Amazon's patent armour-plated cardboard box..... it's heavy ;)

[wibblywobbly]

Thanks for the title! I'm sealing my fate by telling you all this, but there is one on eBay at the moment. Bid me up and I'll hunt you down!

[Pedro 917]

Here's a nice screen saver for you all : Porsche 908-3 from the Porsche museum (Targa Florio 1970 Rodriguez - Kinnunen). Vic Elford drove this car at Goodwood FOS 2002.


Porsche picture.

[wibblywobbly]

THANKS, PEDRO 917!!!!

[CJE]

The 908/3 has really only the engine in common with the 908 and 908/2. It is closer in design to the Type 909 Bergspyder of 1968. One of the main goals was to keep things very light. As example, the body shell is comprised of two thin layers of epoxy plastic sandwiched over foam and weighing an incredible 26.5 pounds! Titanium was used thru-out and, originally, Porsche intended to use Beryllium brake discs that saved over 30 pounds! Unfortunately, they didn't have a long lifespan and cast iron discs were used. Electronic ignition resistors consisted of wires wound around balsa wood.

The 908/3 was quicker than the 917 at the Nurburgring due to it's weight (1200 pounds), despite having only 350 HP. In fact, Jo Siffert did a 7m41.0s lap in private testing - a full second faster than the absolute record set by Jacky Ickx in a Brabham-Ford F1 car!!! The lap was 19 seconds faster than the 908/2, although both shared the same engine.

[Reyna]

Leo Kinnunen testing the first Porsche 908/03 body one month before the 1970 Targa Florio


1.970 Autosprint

[Nanni Dietrich]

I'm not sure if they used four card suits and four different colours only in Targa Florio 1970 or also in 1971.

I recall in 1970:
n. 40, ace of clubs, Pedro Rodriguez-Leo Kinnunen, John Wyer Automotive, blue body with one big orange arrow on the left;
n. 36, ace of spades, Bjorn Waldegard-Dick Attwood, John Wyer Automotive, blue body with orange noise;
n. 12 , ace of diamonds, Jo Siffert-Brian Redman, John Wyer Automotive, blue body with two big orange arrows (but I'm not sure);
n. 20, ace of hearts, Hans Herrmann-Vic Elford, Porsche System, white with red drawings and green numbers (see the pic ;) ).

In 1971:
n. 7 , ace of diamonds, Jo Siffert-Brian Redman, John Wyer Automotive, blue body with two big orange arrows;
n. 4, ace of spades, Pedro Rodriguez-Jackie Oliver ??? (or Herbert Muller, I think), John Wyer Automotive... the pic Pedro-917 posted is black-and-white... it seems in Gulf blue and orange colours, but the stripes around the number are so similar to the blue and red Martini Racing stripes...

I'm sure that n. 8, Vic Elford-Gerard Larrousse, Martini Racing, grey, blue and red DIDN'T HAVE ANY CARD SUIT (I have a poster in my room ;) ), and the fourth 908/3 for Leo Kinnunen-Gijs Van Lennep, Martini Racing that didn't run... I don't know...

Someone can help?

[Reyna]

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
I recall in 1970 :
n. 12 , ace of diamonds, Jo Siffert-Brian Redman, John Wyer Automotive, blue body with two big orange arrows (but I'm not sure );

In 1971 :
n. 7 , ace of diamonds, Jo Siffert-Brian Redman, John Wyer Automotive, blue body with two big orange arrows;
n. 4 , ace of spades, Pedro Rodriguez-Jackie Oliver ??? (or Herbert Muller, I think), John Wyer Automotive... the pic Pedro-917 posted is black-and-white... it seems in Gulf blue and orange colours, but the stripes around the number are so similar to the blue and red Martini Racing stripes...

I'm sure that n. 8, Vic Elford-Gerard Larrousse, Martini Racing, grey, blue and red DIDN'T HAVE ANY CARD SUIT (I have a poster in my room ;) ), and the fourth 908/3 for Leo Kinnunen-Gijs Van Lennep, Martini Racing that didn't run... I don't know...

1.970 #12

Rally Racing


1.971 #7

Autosprint


1.971 #4

Autosprint



1.971 #8

© Unknown

Rafa

[Nanni Dietrich]

It's simply INCREDIBLE that old man with a plastic bag in the hand on the border of the track, looking Herbert driving at the limit!!!


And then they stopped racing the Targa...

[wibblywobbly]

Those are excellent pics! Thanks for them!

[dretceterini]

I say screw the FIA...bring back the Targa and the Mille Miglia...

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
It's simply INCREDIBLE that old man with a plastic bag in the hand on the border of the track, looking Herbert driving at the limit!!!


And then they stopped racing the Targa...

Nanni: It was simply shopping time!;)