16 replies to this topic

[kevinbush]

I have to explain to a friend the differences, both between the series and between the different cars, for IRL, Cart, and Formula 1.

Can anyone help with this? I need both the major differences between the cars, as well as the differences between the differnet series.

Any help is greatly apprieciated.

-KB

[Psychoman]

Here's the simplest way--IRL races only on ovals, F1 only on road courses, and CART on both. As for the cars, the CART cars have roll-hoops behind the seats, IRL has airboxes and lowered nosecones, and F1 has airboxes and raised nosecones!

[molive]

Here´s an even simpler way:

IRL: tony-george-cheap-mickey-mouse-oval-only-sucky-drivers

CART: middle-cost-road/oval-close-competition-good-drivers.

F1: world-class-expensive-road-only-a-bit-predictable-results-best-drivers.

[molive]

Seriously,

I suggest you go to the tech forum. The folks over there may be able to help you with the specs and stuff. Maybe ther´s already a thread on the subject (tried searching?).

[Sting]

Kevinbush, IRL was formed by Tony George as a series trying to get back to what he considers the grass roots of open wheel racing in the US, and with the intention of having as high a proportion of US drivers as possible, however unnatural that idea may appear. Certain personalities I am sure were of the same thought (such as A.J. Foyt) and thus most of the drivers in IRL have been inducted from some really obscure forms of racing in the US. ie World of Outlaws, etc. There are also some older retired F1 drivers who appear from time to time, ie Mauricio Gugelmin, Michaele Alboretto. The chassis' they use are , I think, three different commercially available, Dallara, and two others. The only engines available are the ones provided by Infiniti and Oldsmobile, maybe Toyota, I can't remember. Again, these must be available for any team to use. Configuration is V8's, 4 cam 32 valves of 4 litre capacity. Maybe 600-650hp.

Indy cars can use standard chassis available to all teams or can develop their own, within the specifications. I think Penske is the only team that can afford to do that, and have. Engines, I think, are supplied by Ford, Toyota, Mercedes and Ilmor. Chassis are mainly Reynard, I think.

The engines are 2.65 litre, 8 cylinder, turbocharged and run on alchohol. Outputs I think are exaggerated for sensationalism's sake, but probably around 800-850hp. The cars also have clutchless shifting, but have a shift lever and has to be done manually.

F1 is basically everyone developing their own engine (which they may or may not wish to sell to other teams) or having a special contract with a manufacturer, such as Williams/BMW, Mclaren/Mercedes, Jaguar/Ford. Very advanced technically compared to any other race car,a dn very, very fast.

Look in the technical forum for more specifics.

I hope I have been helpful.

[Jac Man]

Specs on another open wheel racecar:

Pennzoil World of Outlaws Sprint Car:

Fuel: Alcohol
Horsepower: 820
Gears: 1 (direct drive)
Weight: 1150 lbs.
Engine: 410c.i. 8cylinder
aluminum OHV.

Lubrication: Dry Sump
Chassis: Poly-alloy Tubular
Top Speed: 170mph
Wheelbase: 88inches
Compression: 18:1 (approx)
Price: $100,000 U.S.

Racing Surface: Dirt / Clay half-mile ovals.

The oldest form of automobiles racing in the United States. In fact the Sprint Car developed from Formula One Cars in the early 1900's (such as the French Panhard Race Car and the Mors 60).

[Ray Bell]

most likely they know too little and can't absorb much anyway, so these are the salient facts:

IRL... 4-litre V8 & V6 production-based engines with turbocharging to make them give 600 hp on methanol.

CART... 2.65-litre V8 racing engines with turbocharging to give about 800hp on methanol using around 16000 rpm.

F1... 3-litre V10 racing engines without turbocharging and revving to 18000 rpm to give 800 hp on controlled petrol.

Little else will matter, though you could mention the gearchange differences (st. wheel-mounted paddles in F1, levers in the others with sequential shift), that the F1 cars are lighter and that there are some fine differences in the racing rules.
The tracks are another issue, but pounding endless details into people who don't want to know or can't absorb does no good. You have to be a bit discerning.

[Psychoman]

IRL... 4-litre V8 & V6 production-based engines with turbocharging to make them give 600 hp on methanol.

They've banned turbos since '97, and this year they shrunk the engines to 3.5L. If they got 600hp with turbos, I'd REALLY worry about the series future...

[PDA]

IRL as stated, have 3.5, production block based engines, which are normally aspirated. They also have a lowish rev limit mandated (like e.g. F3000). This keeps power down to about 650. All but one team use GM based engines (called Aurora). Cheever uses Infinit. There are three chassis suppliers - Dallara and G Force. This year, Riley and Scot started to supply chassis. Vehicle weight, dry, without driver, is similar to CART at about 1600 lbs. Slick tyres used. race only on ovals.

CART as stated above, plus weight 1550 lbs dry without driver.

CART use different wing restrictions depending on track. Road - two element rear wings, df about 4000lb or so. Short ovals, mid downforce wings (being changed at the moment). Superspeedway wing, single element, Downforce about 1500 lbs. Also have small underfloor venturi's, which contribute to balanced downforce.

A number of tech restrictions limit pwoer and cost: e.g. steel valve springs must be used, so they only (only?) rev to about 16000 (some talk of nearer 17000 in qualifying). Steel brake discs must be used on road courses and small ovals. As stated, paddle shifters not allowed, linkage from lever to gearbox must be mechanical. Same applies to throttle, so fly by wire effectively banned.. Two active chassis mfcs (Lola and Reynard) since Penske stopped making their own chassis this year, and nobody bought the Swift. 4 engine mfcs, Honda, Ford, MB and Toyota. Engine mfcs must be able to supply minimum of 6 cars before being allowed to enter, so single team deals such as in F1 not possible. result of these type of regs is much lower costs than F1, and much less performance difference between front and back of the grid. (ten races, ten winners so far this year).

F1 I presume you know.

[Ray Bell]

Okay, okay, we get absolutely nothing here about IRL and I made some assumptions... 600hp out of production-based 3.5 litre engines? Pretty good going, do they make new heads for them or something. And last time I heard, Indy allowed stocker V6s of larger capacity.. is that not on any more?
Anyway, once the facts are assembled, I doubt if many people would want to know a great deal of detail about regulations like iron brakes and carbon fibre brakes, weight limits other than broad outlines, stuff like that. It gets too complicated for non-petrol head types.
I would, however, be real happy to know the engine regs for IRL. Anyone game to give them chapter and verse?

[OssieFan]

Simple:

F1 = The best
The rest = crap

[PDA]

Ray - IRL engines use a "production based block". Note the word "based". They are not modified production engines. The stipulation of a production based block leads to quite a heavy engine by F1/CART standards. Both Infiniti and Aurora have tohc and 4 vpc. The only real limitation is that cylinder bore spacing is quite large, leading to a comparitively large block. Another important difference from CART is that the mfc must allow teams to buy, rather than lease, the engines or the components. Each team then has an arrangement with an engine builder to keep tham maintained. In CART, engines are delivered sealed by the mfc under a lease arrangement.
BTW, the old Indy rules allowed larger "stock block" engines in the pre 96 days or turbo motors. Indy is IRL, so everything there is "stock block" now.

My empahasis on steel brakes etc. was to show that CART technical limitations are more stringent than F1, with the intent of keeping cost down to a manageable level.

[Sting]

Ray Bell,

Something of an honour (?) to participate in a thread with you! Mr. 'I've got a zillion posts"!

I happen to be acquainted with the Asst. Crew Chief for Dick Simon's effort, so I'll procure all the current specs if you wish.

Thanks for contributing to my threads, BTW:)

[NYR2119935]

dude just go here

http://www.fortuneci...ield_guide.html

it will tell you everything you need to know

[NYR2119935]

.

[kevinbush]

Thanks everyone for all your replies, you've all been great.

I suggest that anyone still wondering about the differences go check out the site that NYR2119935 pointed out.....thanks NYR2119935!

-KB

See you all at Indy in Sept!

[NYR2119935]

NYR2119935 accepts your thank you