73 replies to this topic

[RX-7]

I think this kid has it. He's putting in a good effort for a rookie in the Jaguar ( Not a particularly great car). Plus his finishes have equalled someone as good as Giancarlo Fisichella (in a much better car). I feel he has a bright future in F1. Just my 2 cents.

[AlesiUK]

arent there like 23 klien threads already?

maybe this could be merged ;)

[Ghostrider]

Well, it is a big thing, Klien has today wrecked two forum myths.

1. That Webber is unbeatable in qualifying.
2 That Jaguar's no 2 car never can be faster than the no 1.

So it is quite an event.

[MortenF1]

It was a new track for everybody, the race engineers too, and I think that was a great leveller. I'm not giving my verdict yet, I want to see more. He have to outqualify him more than just once...

Yeah, merge!

[Jimmy]

His performances haven’t yet exceeded those of Pizzonia or Wilson, IMO. The big surprise is how slow Webber was. I mean, last time out he was 2nd on the grid and this time he can only manage 14th. Pizzonia had a couple of top 10 grid slots and out-qualified Webber 3 or 4 times in the time he was at Jaguar.

Klein is doing well for a 21 year old fresh out of F3 and is keeping his head above water, but nothing more.

[HBoss]

2 races aren't enough to dismiss him, 1 weekend with good times in practice and qualifying certainly are't enough to make him the next anything or the real deal.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by Ghostrider
Well, it is a big thing, Klien has today wrecked two forum myths.

1. That Webber is unbeatable in qualifying.
2 That Jaguar's no 2 car never can be faster than the no 1.

So it is quite an event.

I am happy with 1. enough

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Tomecek
I am happy with 1. enough

Let us have some Johny Becher and contemplate on it a little. But not too much, since it is race tomorrow.

[babbel]

With Webber off to Williams (atleast it looks like it ) maybe Klien has the No1 car now and Webber the No2

When Barrichello announced he was going to Ferrari Johnny Herbert "suddenly" found alot of speed too in his Stewart

[Riker!]

Originally posted by babbel
With Webber off to Williams (atleast it looks like it ) maybe Klien has the No1 car now and Webber the No2

When Barrichello announced he was going to Ferrari Johnny Herbert "suddenly" found alot of speed too in his Stewart

Yes that was funny to see. But I doubt hes signed for williams just yet.

[kanec]

Originally posted by RX-7
I think this kid has it. He's putting in a good effort for a rookie in the Jaguar ( Not a particularly great car). Plus his finishes have equalled someone as good as Giancarlo Fisichella (in a much better car). I feel he has a bright future in F1. Just my 2 cents.

Well it's so far, so good for the lad. However, and I don't mean this in undermining Kliens efforts in beating Webber, but I can't help feeling that both of Jags efforts today weren't that golden.

[Superman]

I can understand Webber trashers wet their paints because Kline out qualify Webber. The race is what it count, if i am webber i woundn't be worried.

[fingers]

Originally posted by babbel
With Webber off to Williams (atleast it looks like it ) maybe Klien has the No1 car now and Webber the No2

When Barrichello announced he was going to Ferrari Johnny Herbert "suddenly" found alot of speed too in his Stewart

Bit of a ridiculous thing to say.

[fingers]

Originally posted by fingers


I see Christian Klien won the Marlboro Masters and proved the class of the field at Nurburgring again. Anyone hyping him ? Hey perhaps he's related to Kalvin Klien or something he may qualify as a 'son-of' as yet !

[F1Johnny]

Originally posted by fingers
Bit of a ridiculous thing to say.

Though babbel qualified his statements with smilies. Why is it ridiculous? If MW is leaving why give him the good stuff if CK is staying long term?

[v@sh]

One race weekend does not make a season. Kudos to Klien for a good weekend so far though I'm dissappointed in both Jags, both off the pace a bit.

[RX-7]

Shame to read so much pessimism.My optimistic outlook for F1 in general gets me the occasional "ribbing"(good thing I have a thick skin) As far as waiting to give a verdict,who cares?Certainly not me, I go with my gut and am not afraid to offer an opinion.In the event we find Klien to be "mediocre" at best,then it would be the first time I have been wrong.

[Daemon]

Originally posted by Tomecek
I am happy with 1. enough

But then your absolute hate of Webber clouds your opinion of 2.

[Carsten]

I thought Webber made an error on his qualifying run that caused him to be so far back?

I don't remember, when Kimi started near the back a few races last year, that people were claiming Coulthard as 'the real deal'.

[Jason]

Originally posted by v@sh
One race weekend does not make a season. Kudos to Klien for a good weekend so far though I'm dissappointed in both Jags, both off the pace a bit.

It should be noted that the weekend is not over yet. But, Klien has been very good thur far. We shall see how it all turns out.

[Riker!]

Webber might go on a Charge!

[taran]

Originally posted by Superman
I can understand Webber trashers wet their paints because Kline out qualify Webber. The race is what it count, if i am webber i woundn't be worried.

You've gotta be joking .

Webber, the ultimate Jarno Trulli. The guy who can even out-Trulli Trulli himself. Do better in the race than he did in qualifying? When has he ever performed well in the race other than his Minardi drive in Melbourne?

[clef]

Originally posted by taran
Webber, the ultimate Jarno Trulli. The guy who can even out-Trulli Trulli himself. Do better in the race than he did in qualifying? When has he ever performed well in the race other than his Minardi drive in Melbourne?

Where have you been? He came 7th in Austria last year after starting from the pit lane, and enduring a drive through penalty that wasn't his fault. He also came 6th last season in one race without anyone retiring in front of him.

[Dudley]

And apart from handling the pressure there really wasn;'t anything special about that Minardi drive in Melbourne.

[ensign14]

Klien has been very impressive all weekend - at least ostensibly. If he pits on lap 2 for fuel we may have to rethink...

It does suggest though that the new rules this and last year have been crucifying the rookies. They go to an F1 car, which is more powerful than anything that they have driven; but they then have to forget all they have learned about gear shifting &c and learn all the new guff they can do with 'lectrics. But they had no time to do it last year because they could either test or get an hour extra per race.

So coming to a new track makes things a bit more level.

Certainly in the first coupe of races Klien did nothing more impressive than Pizzonia or Wilson. However this time he could demonstrate his potential more.

Still think he is talented but this came a year or 2 too early...

[Riker!]

Id like to have seen Briscoe get the seat instead or atleast a Seat in f1.

[kanec]

Originally posted by RX-7
Shame to read so much pessimism.My optimistic outlook for F1 in general gets me the occasional "ribbing"(good thing I have a thick skin) As far as waiting to give a verdict,who cares?Certainly not me, I go with my gut and am not afraid to offer an opinion.In the event we find Klien to be "mediocre" at best,then it would be the first time I have been wrong.

You could well be right. Klien may well be the next wunderkind. He's doing everything that's been asked of him so far and as a complete rookie within this current rule set (as Ensign14 points out) what he's done so far is impressive. I personally think he's going to be in F1 for a while, but not because of this result... the best is yet to come from him.

But what I feel is happening in relation to this result is that we have a set of people who would not have even noticed Kliens efforts this weekend, let alone applaud them if Mark Webber wasn't sitting at the top of their **** list.

[Riker!]

Originally posted by kanec


You could well be right. Klien may well be the next wunderkind. He's doing everything that's been asked of him so far and as a complete rookie within this current rule set (as Ensign14 points out) what he's done so far is impressive. I personally think he's going to be in F1 for a while, but not because of this result... the best is yet to come from him.

But what I feel is happening in relation to this result is that we have a set of people who would not have even noticed Kliens efforts this weekend, let alone applaud them if Mark Webber wasn't sitting at the top of their **** list.

Good Post.

[davegp3]

Originally posted by taran


You've gotta be joking .

Webber, the ultimate Jarno Trulli. The guy who can even out-Trulli Trulli himself. Do better in the race than he did in qualifying? When has he ever performed well in the race other than his Minardi drive in Melbourne?

Out-Trulli Trulli

When somebody had bad race compared to his qualifying, I say that he "pulled a Trulli".

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Riker!
Id like to have seen Briscoe get the seat instead or atleast a Seat in f1.

Way too early. Even Deletraz had a better F3000 record.

[Kuwashima]

Originally posted by ensign14
Way too early. Even Deletraz had a better F3000 record.

'Tis very true. Jean-Denis had two podium 3rds in 1988. (Mind you amongst Deletraz's other 26 F3000 races he had 7 DNQs, 6 Accidents, a DNS and a Disqualification. Briscoe has had 5 finishes in his 7 races). No need to say who had the better F3 record, though...

[Ventura]

I'm rapidly becomig a fan of Christian Klien!!
Sod his qualifying times, did you see his aggressive overtaking moves....this boy is a racer.!!
I'm not so interested in his results at this stage of his young career, just his attitude on and off track.
When Michael retires it will either be Alonso or Klien that I'll follow

[red300zx99]

after today I am a believer

Klein for president

[AussieF1]

Originally posted by Carsten
I thought Webber made an error on his qualifying run that caused him to be so far back?

Correct.

Cost him around 1 sec I believe.....

[MortenF1]

One second seems a bit too much I think. It certainly was a costly error, but Christian's first sector time was a 30.1 and Mark's was a 30.8...

[PeaQ]

Yea, Klien performed well today.
I didnt have much faith in him in the start of the season, and kinda hoped that he wouldnt perform too well. I must say tho that I have changed my opinion of him very much as I think he has shown that he is very mature in his driving. Swedish comentators today also mentioned that Klien and his manager had "decided" that it was time to advance and not only take the car to the finishline. It seems as Klien manages to deliver what he decides to deliver.

[eoin]

Originally posted by PeaQ
Yea, Klien performed well today.
I didnt have much faith in him in the start of the season, and kinda hoped that he wouldnt perform too well. I must say tho that I have changed my opinion of him very much as I think he has shown that he is very mature in his driving. Swedish comentators today also mentioned that Klien and his manager had "decided" that it was time to advance and not only take the car to the finishline. It seems as Klien manages to deliver what he decides to deliver.

... it was exciting to watch, but the guy was off the track a few times. If this was malaysia he would of been stuck in a gravel pit, instead of the nice run off areas.
Still he has potenial and is far better than some other paid drivers we have seen.

[Fernando Martinez]

I think you will find klien outqualifies webber a few times this year, on tracks like bahrain, shanghai, where everyone is even, plus a few tracks where webber may make mistakes.

I think in the races though webber will be too consistant, like today. I do think Klien will at least keep his seat at jag, or maybe even move sideways in the paddock.

[Nasty McBastard]

Originally posted by taran


You've gotta be joking .

Webber, the ultimate Jarno Trulli. The guy who can even out-Trulli Trulli himself. Do better in the race than he did in qualifying? When has he ever performed well in the race other than his Minardi drive in Melbourne?

weve been here before.

when you qualify a jag on the front 2 or 3 rows...theres only one way to go.....and thats backwards.
when you qualify a renault on the front 2 or 3 rows, theres no excuse for going backwards.

i think the fact that webber had races where he DIDNT do one of those brilliant qualsand yet still had himself running well in the points, shows the guy can actually race.

the aforementioned austrian gp is an example. i seem to reall in oz last year he was 4th or 5th untill he DNF'ed, and that wasnt from a brilliant qual result. brazil too....any time you mention brazil people carry on about retirements etc, but webber was up in 5th or 6th place anyway...on pace... almost all through the race. how about the GP's where hes set fastest laps (barring the ferraris)? the guy is a real mug isnt he?

lets be fair here. any time webber finishes ahead of, or runs ahead of on pace, a ferrari, williams, mclaren, renault or BAR, hes done well. and there arent many weekends where he isnt atleast giving one of them a bloody good run.

trulli, OTOH, seems to spend plent of races scrapping it out with guys he should be well ahead of.


im not claiming webber is a fure WC, and yes, i am biased, but still....comparing him to trulli, coz the guy puts his jag in places it should never be, and has trouble keeping it there (unsurprisingly), is a little harsh.

[markzed]

Klien was quite entertaining to watch during the Bahrain GP. I'm warming to him.

Give him a season before drawing serious comparisons with other drivers.

[checkonetwo]

klien was off the track only once. he spun one time, which was a bit frustrating. but apart from that, he did rather well. he missed the apex two times when trying to outbreak kimi but nevertheless kept everything on track. his pass on massa was superb and then while charging damatta he made a mistake. i still don´t know what happened at the start between him and alonso though. alonso seemed to complain after the race. all in all it was very okay i think. nevertheless mark clearly outshined him in the race, which is acceptable after three races. it`ll be good to see imola, because both know the track.

[FordFan]

Alonso dove towards the wall to make a pass. Klien gave him plenty of room and was well within the while line the demarks the track (which is more than can be said for Alonso). Alonso puts himself in a tight spot and then complains about others not bailing him out.

[Group B]

Originally posted by Ventura
I'm rapidly becomig a fan of Christian Klien!!
Sod his qualifying times, did you see his aggressive overtaking moves....this boy is a racer.!!
I'm not so interested in his results at this stage of his young career, just his attitude on and off track.
When Michael retires it will either be Alonso or Klien that I'll follow

I was already keeping an eye on Klien before he went to Jag, but after yesterday's display I'm fast becoming a fan; I actually found myself smiling in the kind of way I haven't done since a young MS appeared all those years ago. Long way to go yet of course, but there's a genuine chance that F1 has a new star and I have new hero

[taran]

Originally posted by Nasty McBastard


weve been here before.

when you qualify a jag on the front 2 or 3 rows...theres only one way to go.....and thats backwards.
when you qualify a renault on the front 2 or 3 rows, theres no excuse for going backwards.

i think the fact that webber had races where he DIDNT do one of those brilliant qualsand yet still had himself running well in the points, shows the guy can actually race.

the aforementioned austrian gp is an example. i seem to reall in oz last year he was 4th or 5th untill he DNF'ed, and that wasnt from a brilliant qual result. brazil too....any time you mention brazil people carry on about retirements etc, but webber was up in 5th or 6th place anyway...on pace... almost all through the race. how about the GP's where hes set fastest laps (barring the ferraris)? the guy is a real mug isnt he?

lets be fair here. any time webber finishes ahead of, or runs ahead of on pace, a ferrari, williams, mclaren, renault or BAR, hes done well. and there arent many weekends where he isnt atleast giving one of them a bloody good run.

trulli, OTOH, seems to spend plent of races scrapping it out with guys he should be well ahead of.


im not claiming webber is a fure WC, and yes, i am biased, but still....comparing him to trulli, coz the guy puts his jag in places it should never be, and has trouble keeping it there (unsurprisingly), is a little harsh.

So basically you're saying that if Webber qualifies well its because he is good but if he races poorly it because of the car?

Sorry but that is bollocks!

[kanec]

Originally posted by taran


So basically you're saying that if Webber qualifies well its because he is good but if he races poorly it because of the car?

Sorry but that is bollocks!

Nice twisting! Not at all what Nasty said nor topical to his original reply to you.

[Deeq]

Originally posted by Group B




I was already keeping an eye on Klien before he went to Jag, but after yesterday's display I'm fast becoming a fan; I actually found myself smiling in the kind of way I haven't done since a young MS appeared all those years ago. Long way to go yet of course, but there's a genuine chance that F1 has a new star and I have new hero

I couldn't agree more

Yesterday the *only*;) thing that made me smile more than the Ferrari lesson and Mclaren non-appearance was Kliens performance[his fight with KR specially]
I thought this race was the BEST in a long time entertainment[Racing] wise not the least for the McLaren vs Jaguar fights. Too bad it ended too soon and the [TV]Broadcasting was POS

So in summery I'm a believer and Count me in the Klien Bandwagon

[Nasty McBastard]

so if someone sticks a minardi on pole at san marino, and then slips down the field and eventually finishes 8th, its been a **** performance?

what im saying is, you cant expect someone who drags a midfield car, up to the front row in qual, to keep it there all race.

if he races poorly, then he races poorly. that would be the equivilent of webber qualifying midfield (where youd expect the jag to be), and not improving or going backwards.....
i wouldnt even say (for arguments sake) webber raced porly in malaysia....he had a poor race, but he didnt race poorly.

which is exactly the case with trulli. he quals where youd expect a renault to be, and more often than not, goes backwards.

thats what im saying.



but anyway, for what its worth (and what i forgot to say before)... im not convinced about klien yet.....BUT, i have to say ive got more faith in him being able to hang around in f1 for a few years, than i did in february.

[DavidK]

Originally posted by taran


So basically you're saying that if Webber qualifies well its because he is good but if he races poorly it because of the car?

Sorry but that is bollocks!

I suggest before you post your own Bollocks you might want to research why this is the case with the Jag.

Its no secret this problem stems from an inherent graining issue the R5 has with its Michelin tyres.
During qualifying this is not so much a problem as only one flying lap is required.

However as a race progresses, the tyres grain quite badly, causing a progressive loss of grip.

Until such time as a new suspension/chassis fix comes along (R6?), I expect this trend to continue.


Of course, your exalted explanation is......?


DavidK

[checkonetwo]

Originally posted by Nasty McBastard

but anyway, for what its worth (and what i forgot to say before)... im not convinced about klien yet.....BUT, i have to say ive got more faith in him being able to hang around in f1 for a few years, than i did in february.

you are aware he didn`t even have a race in february ? i mean, come on nasty... i knew rookies don´t have too much time on their hands to convince people in f1, but this is getting a bit tough, me thinks.

[DavidK]

Kimi wasnt the only person Klien was giving a hard time.

Alonso: "On turn 8 I crashed with the Jaguar of Klien. He was driving from turn one looking at the mirrors until he broke my nosecone. When I changed the piece I knew it was going to be a solitary race"
Source

“he broke my nosecone" !!!!

Klien.