59 replies to this topic

[rolando]

As a mexican racing fan I've always heard about The Rodriguez Brothers and their legendary careers, I think both of them have the skill to be World Champion, but their fate was very tragic.Firstly Ricardo amazed the racing world by almost taking pole position at Monza on his first try, running wheel to wheel with all-time greats P. Hill, Clark and Von Trips, but less than a year after he lost his life on the parabolica curve. Then Pedro enjoyed a successful F1 and Prototypes career, and sadly he found death at wheel of a Ferrari 512S. What you think about these drivers? Do they deserve being one of the all-time greats?


Ps. To me one of the most fantastic sights in Motoracing is Pedro taming the Porsche 917 on the rain with full opposite lock.

[KzKiwi]

Hey Rolando, go back through the topics of this forum to approx. the 05/12/00. There is an identical topic to this one. Even got some threads on it too.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, we got right into this topic... but it's interesting that both died in cars they were driving that were different to their usual cars. It was actually this that was suggested that caused Ricardo's death.
And it wasn't in the Parabolica, but at home in Mexico, practising for the Mexican GP of 1962 in Rob Walker's Lotus.

[luisfelipetrigo]

Ray is correct, Ricardo died after an accident in the 'peraltada' in Mexico City.
That year he had driven for Ferrari in Europe but when the Comendatore decided not to bring his team to Mexico (probably because it was not a championship race) Rob Walker offered him a ride in one of his Lotus.
Pedro had the pole position until Jim Clark took it away from him. Ricardo went out close to the end of the practice session to try to regain the pole ...

I believe Pedro to be the better one, true that he had more of a chance to show his talents - very fast, excelent in the rain and (with time) more calculating.

[404KF2]

I saw Pedro driving a 917 at the Spa-Francorchamps 1000 km road race in 1970. He won.

He definitely was one of the all-time greats.

[Huw Jenjin]

Going back to a thread which talked about 1950-60s racing drivers learning to drive 80%. My guess is that Ricardo didnt have time to learn. Obviously a formidable talent, but it is probable that he was always driving to the best of his ability. i.e. too fast. I don't know the cause of the accident, mybe he overdrove, quite probably the lotus surprised him in some way, but an 80%er would have been around to qualify second to Jimmy Clark. Not bad for a young gun.
I think Pedro was quite the opposite, and always drove well within himself, and was a supreme talent. His outstanding performances in the wet show that when the consequeces of a mistake are less horrendous, which they usually are in the wet, Pedro just walked away from the rest.
He was so good in those P160s and 153s. I would love to see some footage of Spa 1970.
Was his fatal accident a tyre problem? I don't remember.
tragic waste, both of them.Why were they so good?

[rolando]

Sorry, I made a mistake by saying that Ricardo lost his life at Monza. As some of you said, he was killed on "The peraltada" when some part of the lotus' suspension broke. And thanks for your comments.

[404KF2]

Unfortunately I don't have any home movies of the 1970 Spa 1000 km race, but I do still have some slides and the official program. My Dad and I were sitting in the tribunes between the pits and the beginning of Eau Rouge, but we could see back to La Source if I recall correctly. The sound of the 917 engines as they raced away from the hairpin was amazing! It rained a bit during the race and Pedro was tops in the wet.

[Ray Bell]

I don't recall any mention of suspension breakage at Mexico City, and the surmise about being unused to the car's basic handling characteristics as a cause tends to eliminate that prospect.
Keir, I loved that story in Motor Sport about the Austrian 1000km event shortly before his death, and I look back on the 917 era as the Pedro and Seppi show that should never have ended... even though I don't like Porsches. Such spectacle, such tragedy.

[bigblue]

Anybody read the article by Joe Scalzo in OnTrack about Pedro Rodriguez. I did not know too much about him but sounds like he was a great talent. Shame we never got to see it mature. Anybody have any further insight into Pedro's short life and racing career.

[Ray Bell]

Motor Sport recently (maybe 6-8 months ago) carried a story about his drive in the 1000km race in Austria the year he died, in fact, the week or two weeks before he died. Such was the nature of that drive that the comment was made that "It seemed as though all his performances in the past were leading to this climax."
His time in the Gulf Porsche 917 team was a magic period of motor sport, when he and Siffert dominated sports car racing and Pedro was the acknowledged master. He also won a race or two for BRM in F1 in that period, including the Belgian GP on the old Spa at 149.93 mph.
But his element was the rain. He seemed so ineffectual when I saw him in the Tasman races in the V12 BRM, but that was before the Bourne concern hit their straps in the 3-.itre formula. There is another thread on this forum recently devoted to the Rodriguez clan.. hunt that down.

[Wes]

The On Track article was about Ricardo Rodriguez, younger brother of Pedro, who won 2 GPs and the 1968 Le Mans.

[Ray Bell]

Still more reason - I didn't know that it was about Ricardo - to go back to the other thread. It's not far back, maybe a week and a half at most.

[rolando]

Both Pedro and Ricardo died so soon, especially Ricardo, and like Ray Bell wrote Pedro's element was the rain. Finally, I still think that Ricardo have a bigger talent but sadly he was just 21 when he was killed.

[Keir]

Haven't read On Track in years, but Ricardo couldn't have won LeMans in '68, he was killed during practice for his home Grand Prix in '62. Pedro did take the win in '68, driving a Ford GT40 with Lucien Bianchi.

I always liked Pedro, but you knew he wasn't long for this world. You can't keep putting wheels over the edge and get away with it forever.[p][Edited by Keir on 07-14-2000]

[rolando]

Many people think they drove always on the limit, but I think they develop some technique to preserve their machines, I've read that Ricardo lost his life when his Lotus' suspesion broke, though most of the people think he just was driving beyond his ability, in those times the lotus cars was very fragile in order to be light.
By the way, Pedro's victory at Lemans was with Lucien Bianchi, and he was killed because the 512's tire exploded and he lost control and crashed.

[Keir]

Rolando,
Right you are, about Bianchi.

If Pedro had any fault it was when to push and when to call it a day. That day in '71 Pedro was driving a very tired Ferrari 512 against the European version of Can Am cars,
in typical fashion and against very amateur drivers, he was in the lead and pushing harder than he needed. The real shame of it was that, this was a race Pedro didn't need to be in.

[Ray Bell]

As mentioned in the other thread, both of them died in cars with which they were not familiar.
It has been postulated, and was the talk at the time of Ricardo's death, that the inherent oversteer of the Lotus compared to the Ferrari's understeer that he was used to in F1 possibly contributed to his crash. At the time there was no mention of breakage.
Likewise, Pedro was used to the Ferrari's opposition, the Porsche 917, when he was asked to drive this one-off event. You really should read the Motor Sport article about that Austrian race. How about you find the other thread and look for Motor Sport, then come back to us?

[C F Eick]

The MotorSport article on the Austrian 1000 km race was truly a masterpiece. The comment from Pedro when asked by Richard Attwood on how he took a difficult fast corner:

It's easy, you just go flat...

Clichéish? Sure, but still it sounds beautiful in my ears.

/C F Eick

[bigblue]

Wes, I stand corrected. Of course you are right. My brain said Ricardo but my damm fingers typed Pedro. That's what you get for trying to sneak posts in at work. I will try to find the other thread. Thanks Guys.

[Ray Bell]

While we're here, let's have a word about Lucien Bianchi.
I think he drove in the odd Belgian GP (maybe others, too) in Coopers in the 2.5-litre days, but mainly he was in Sports Cars.
But as far as Australians were concerned, he was a rally driver, arriving here in a Citroen DS at the head of the field in the 1968 London-Sydney event and remaining there across this continent.
Then, on the final competitive stage, with only fifteen miles to go before the last transport to the finish at Warwick Farm, some jerk in a Mini travelling the opposite direction (the authorities refused to close the roads) lost control and hit him head on. I think his navigator/co-driver got a broken leg out of it.. was that Ogier?
A rare example of a driver who competed at the top level in racing and rallying. But it was of great lament to us that the news the following June was of his death at Le Mans.
Today they run retro-events between London and Sydney fairly regularly... I wonder if they ever think of this man that dominated the first one?

[GT Action Photo]

I had the good fortune to see Pedro Rodriguez drive a
P4 Ferrari in the 1968 Can-Am Race at Road America.



Photo No.2
http://www.ezl.com/~...2.jpg/canam.jpg

With kind regards,
Gary Trobaugh

[Ray Bell]

That one is obviously one made especially for the Can-Am.. the one that came to Australia that year was not like that, more like the conventional shape they were running at Le Mans etc.. must find a photo of it.
By the way, bigblue, next time you're by this way, how about you go back and edit the title on the post to 'Ricardo' to save confusion?

[bigblue]

Ray, I tried to but couldn't figure out how to edit the title. It would only let me edit the "message". Am I missing something other than alot of brain cells?

[Ray Bell]

I don't know, frankly... perhaps the new restrictions that prevent the first post being deleted are hampering you... I know it must be a bugbear when this sort of thing happens... look down the list of threads in RC and see how many have mis-spelled words they probably noticed just after they posted.

[PDA]

I was priveledged to see pedro race at the BOAC 1000 at Brands Hatch in 70. It poured with rain all day. VEry early on, Pedro was givena stop and go penalty (I forget for what) which dropped him to about last. His drive through the field was something to behold. AT one point he caught Amon in the 512 Ferrari on the start/finish straight, and went round the OUTSIDE into Paddock. Unbelievable. One of the great drives. I think he was actually getting faster when he was killed, becasue at first, he was rated just a journeyman, particularly compared with his young brother, Ricardo. I am not sure about my memory, but didn't they do very well at Le Mans, together, in an NART Ferrari, in 60 or 61?

[Ray Bell]

If my memory serves me right, the two drove together in 61 and 62 at Le Mans. The 62 car was just a little one, a rear engined car, too, I think, but they were harassing the leading Hill/Gendebien car for a number of hours... I think... it was the first Le Mans I ever saw a report on, and that seems to stick out in my memory. It blew up, I'm sure, but I don't know about 1961.

[luisfelipetrigo]

Here is what I could find about the Rodriguez brothers, the listing shows Year GP Car Start-Finish

[b][largefont]Formula 1[/largefont][/b]

[i]P E D R O[/i]

1963 USA........Lotus 25 Climax......13th - 36 laps engine

1963 Mexico.....Lotus 25 Climax......20th - 26 laps Rear Suspension

1964 Mexico.....Ferrari 156...........9th - 6th

1965 BRDC Intl..Lotus Climax 25...........- 4th(non championship)

1965 USA........Ferrari 1512.........15th - 5th

1965 Mexico.....Ferrari 1512.........13th - 7th

1966 France.....Lotus 33 Climax......13th - 41 laps oil pipe

1966 USA........Lotus 33 BRM.........10th - 14 laps starter

1966 Mexico.....Lotus 33 Climax.......8th - 49 laps crown wheel and pinion

1967 R Champs Heat 2 Cooper T81 Maserati..- 5th (non championship)

1967 R Champs Final..Cooper T81 Maserati..- 4th (non championship)

1967 So Africa..Cooper T81 Maserati...4th - [b]1st[/b]

1967 Monaco.....Cooper T81 Maserati..16th - 5th

1967 Netherland Cooper T81 Maserati...5th - 40 laps gearbox

1967 Belgium....Cooper T81 Maserati..13th - 25 laps engine

1967 France.....Cooper T81 Maserati..13th - 6th

1967 British....Cooper T81 Maserati...9th - 5th

1967 Germany....Cooper T81 Maserati..10th - 11th

1967 Mexico.....Cooper T81B Maserati 13th - 6th

1968 R Champs...BRM P133..................- 2th (non championship)

1968 Int'l Gold BRM P126..................- 4th

1968 So Africa..BRM P126.............10th - 20 laps fuel vaporization

1968 Spain......BRM P133..............2nd - 28 laps accident

1968 Monaco.....BRM P133..............9th - 17 laps accident

1968 Belgium....BRM P133..............8th - 2nd

1968 Netherland BRM P133.............11th - 3rd

1968 France.....BRM P133.............10th - not classified

1968 British....BRM P133.............13th - 53 laps engine

1968 Germany....BRM P133.............14th - 6th

1968 Italy......BRM P138.............15th - 23 laps engine

1968 Canada.....BRM P133.............12th - 3rd

1968 USA........BRM P133.............11th - 67 laps rear suspension

1968 Mexico.....BRM P133.............12th - 4th

1969 So Africa..BRM P126.............15th - 38 laps Water leak

1969 Spain......BRM P126.............14th - 73 laps Engine

1969 Monaco.....BRM P126.............14th - 16 laps Engine

1969 British....Ferrari 312...........8th - 62 laps..Engine

1969 Italy......Ferrari 312..........12th - 6th

1969 Canada.....Ferrari 312..........13th - 38 laps..Oil pressure

1969 USA........Ferrari 312..........12th - 5th

1969 Mexico.....Ferrari 312..........15th - 7th

1970 So Africa..BRM..................16th - 9th

1970 Spain......BRM...................5th - 4 laps Withdrew

1970 Monaco.....BRM..................15th - 6th

1970 Belgium....BRM...................6th - [b]1st[/b]

1970 Holland....BRM...................7th - 10th

1970 France.....BRM..................10th - 7 laps..Gearbox

1970 British....BRM..................15th - 59 laps..Accident

1970 Germany....BRM...................8th - 8 laps..Ignition

1970 Austria....BRM..................22th - 4th

1970 Italy......BRM...................2th - 13 laps..Engine

1970 Canada.....BRM...................7th - 4th

1970 USA........BRM...................4th - 2th

1970 Mexico.....BRM...................7th - 6th

1971 Questor....BRM P160..................- 4th(non championship)

1971 Spring.....BRM P160..................- [b]1st[/b] (non championship)

1971 BRDC.......BRM P160..................- 4th

1971 So Africa..BRM..................10th - 33 laps..Overheating

1971 Spain......BRM...................5th..4th

1971 Monaco.....BRM...................5th..9th

1971 Holland....BRM...................2th..2th

1971 France.....BRM...................5th - 28 laps..Ignition

.

[i]R I C A R D O[/i]

1961 Italy......Ferrari Dino 156......2nd - 13 laps Ignition

1962 Netherlans Ferrari 156..........11th - spun off 73 laps

1962 Monaco.....Ferrari 156..........non-starter

1962 Belgium....Ferrari 156...........7th - 4th

1962 Germany....Ferrari 156..........10th - 6th

1962 Italy......Ferrari 156..........11th - 14th

1962 Pau........Ferrari 156...............- 2nd (non championship)

1962 Mexico.....Lotus 24...................died (non championship)

.

.

[b][largefont]Sports[/largefont][/b] - Selected resutls.

[i]P E D R O[/i]

1961 Sebring........Ferrari.............3st

1961 Paris 100km....Ferrari 250 GT......1st

1961 Nurburgring....Ferrari.............2st

1962 Paris 100km....Ferrari 250 GT......1st

1963 Sebring............................3st

1963 Daytona............................1st

1964 2000km Daytona Ferrari 250 GT......1st

1965 Reims 12hrs....Ferrari 365P........1st

1966 Nurburgring....Ferrari.............3rd

1967 Daytona........Ferrari.............3rd

1968 Le Mans........Ford GT 40..........1st

1969 Spa............Ferrari.............2nd

1970 Daytona........Porsche.............1st

1970 Brands Hatch...Porsche.............1st

1970 Monza..........Porsche.............1st

1970 Targa Florio...Porsche.............2nd

1970 Watkins Glenn..Porsche.............1st

1971 Buenos Aires...Porsche.............2nd

1971 Daytona........Porsche.............1st

1971 Monza..........Porsche.............1st

1971 Spa............Porsche.............1st

1971 Nurburgring....Porsche.............2nd

1971 Osterreichring Porsche.............1st

.

[i]R I C A R D O[/i]

1960 Le Mans........Ferrari.............2nd

1961 Sebring........Ferrari.............3st

1961 Nurburgring....Ferrari.............2st

1961 Paris 100km....Ferrari 250 GT......1st

1962 Targa Florio...Ferrari 246 SP......1st

1962 Paris 100km....Ferrari 250 GT......1st

============================================
I feel that Ricardo's career was too short to really know/estimate his potential, I am not arguing that he was bad but in my opinion Pedro was always a better driver.
Also, by the number of accidents Pedro had in F1 (only place I found data) I feel it is not fair to say that he was a dare devil of sorts, he was just a professional diver doing his work - which means drivin at the limit, sometimes pushing it - like many others.

Right now I am not at home in Mexico (work has me in Sao Paulo this week) but once I get there I will provide more info on Ricardo.

[rolando]

Thank you for the results, Luis Felipe, I really think that the Rodriguez were the most fantastic drivers in Mexico and in the World, I just hope you could give us more info about their careers because I can sadly see how the Rodriguez are forgotten in Mexico. Now, people only talk about Fernandez's achievements.

[Ray Bell]

They are forgotten in Mexico?
Joe Fan can understand that as he tries to get Masten Gregory recognition in his home town... but they certainly aren't forgotten here.

[GT Action Photo]

Ed McDonough is working on a new book about the Brothers
Rodriguezs.Look for it in the book stores in the near future.

With kind regards,
Gary Trobaugh

[AyePirate]

Here's a beautiful photo



Nürburgring 1000 km 1969
Pedro Rodriguez flies around the Ring in the 312 P s/n 0870

Viva Pedro Rodriguez! Viva Low Downforce!



Le Mans 24 h 1969
[p][Edited by AyePirate on 07-28-2000]

[Ray Bell]

Strange thing, I just found that picture at the ring on the screen of my computer... and it'll be there when I switch on again tomorrow... Luvverly!

[Fast One]

Well I can add a personal story about Pedro, although I've mentioned this before in another thread. At the Glen in 1970, before Saturday practice, I was in the pits and had struck up a conversation with a couple of BRM mechanics. We were having a pretty good laugh when the signal to clear the pits was given and the Strong Arm of Officialdom swept through to remove all unauthorized personages, of which I was definitely one! One of the mechanics said , " Hang on," and walked across the pits to talk to an older gentleman (Would that have been Tony Rudd? I was too young to really know who he was at the time.). Pedro took an interest in the conversation and suddenly returned with the mechanic, laughing. They started piling tires in front of where I was sitting, until I was well and truly hidden. They told me to stay put, which I did. When the pits were clear, down came the tire wall, and I was allowed to sit and watch for the next two hours!!! I was one thrilled nineteen year old! At the end of practice, I was sent on my way with heart-a-pumping and the autograph (sadly later lost) of one Pedro Rodriguez, who as he signed, asked me smiling, "How do you like the noise?" I adored the man from that moment on. Why did this happen? I have no idea. I guess I was just on the right end of someone's practical joke. All I know is that they were two of the most awe struck hours I ever spent.

Unlike Ray, Barry, and Don, I never had the opportunity to meet lots of drivers, so the moment meant a lot to me. And I rooted so hard for Pedro the next day he put that BRM in second place!

[rolando]

Do you know where I can find Pictures of Pedro driving the Porsche 917?
I've been looking for those pics lately and I couldn't find any.
Once I saw one with Pedro in full opposite-lock in the rain but I guess the site is no longer available...Any suggestions?

[Ray Bell]

You want the quality stuff, rolando? There used to be so many of that combination around, he became a legend in that car, and a photographers' favourite.

[rolando]

Yeah, I have been in some web sites where you can order some paintings and litograghs but I'm just looking for jpgs. And strangely I can't find them. I have several books of Schlegelmilch but none with Pedro in the 917.

[Ray Bell]

Just because it should be in here, even though the thread is about Ricardo and was misnamed...

When Louis Chiron, Monaco's own legendary GP driver, showed the 30 second sign Amon's Matra refused to start. He threw up an arm in the air from his place in the second row without Louis Chiron noticing it and the Matra mechanics rushed out to the track and pushed the car forward between Stewart and Ickx in the front row and off the track. In a flash Rodriguez sneaked into Amon's empty place and for a while I thought that Chiron would panic in the whole mess. He freneticly waved to Pedro to return to his own position but Rodriguez pretended not to understand anything. Chiron had no choice but finally had to let a somewhat irritated start field away if front of the confused spectators. Now later I feel a bit pity for Chiron. He had got the honorary task to start the GP to celebrate that it was 40 years since his victory at Monaco in 1931. And it couldn't have been an easy task for an 72 years old man to control with orders and signs 18 F1 drivers, model 71, who are revving their engines for a important start.

[rolando]

2 good pics...

Pedro Rodriguez, with Colin Chapman, in the Lotus 33 in the France GP 1966.



One of the best Pedro's victories Brands Hatch's 1000kms in 1970.

[Barry Boor]

This is the first time I have seen this Pedro thread.

I have little to add except that I was privileged (no other word possible) to be at Brands for the 1000K race in 1970. One of the greatest wet weather drives of all time IMHO.

I got in free too!

I thought I would post this image of Pedro that I took in (1969?) again at Brands. It's not a great picture, but then I only had a cheapo Kodak point and press camera, and they were very crude in those days.

Inserted into an album over 30 years ago, the caption to the photo reads 'A great little fighter'.

[Paul Medici]

Barry Boor
A fine photo nontheless. Thank you very much for sharing it.
Regards,PJM

[Roger Clark]

Barry's picture is probably from the 1969 Race of the Champions,or practice for it. THe car in the foreground is Surtees' works BRM P138-02 with the new 4-valve/cylinder engine, recognisable by its central exhausts. Rodriguez drove a P126-01, entered by tim Parnell, the car in the transporter. It is recognisable (apart from the number) by having a red nose band rather than BRM's usual orange.

[Barry Boor]

Spot-on, Roger. It would have been Friday practice. I would have been home from College, and you could have counted the spectators in the paddock on the fingers of a few hands.

If I had been an autograph buff I'd have had a field day. Instead I just took photos. I got Ickx, Rindt and one or two others - (not all at this meeting, I should add.) Things certainly were very different then.

Incidentally, I snapped Surtees car just before going out to practice, and not many minutes later a very sorry looking BRM behind craned back covered in mud having crashed off with, I believe, a puncture.

[oldtimer]

I think of Pedro as amongst the very top as a long distance sportscar driver, but not amongst the top echelon of GP drivers.

I remember seeing him at Silverstone in the GKN-Daily Express Trophy in a BRM trying to hold off Graham Hill in the 'lobster claw' Brabham (have we had a thread on Worst Looking GP Cars?). Hill was catching Rodriguez down Hangar Straight and threatenening to go through on the inside into Stowe. So Pedro moved his car slightly over to the right. The next lap, Hill moved even more to the inside, so Pedro moved to right even more. Hill repeated the threat on the next lap by moving even more to the RHS of the track, and Pedro responded as before. Eventually Hill had persuaded Pedro that he had to drive down the middle of the straight to hold him off, whereupon Hill swooped around the outside and took the entry into Stowe! Intriguing to watch.

I missed the great 1970 drive at Brands, but this made the 1971 event a 'must see'. The Gulf-Wyer 917s ran into fuel problems, which was a disappointment. However, I did see a 'Mad Mexican-Crazy Swiss' moment. They (Rodriguez and Siffert) were at it in their usual mode, and coming off the top straight came across another 917 driver lining himself up for the downhill Paddock Bend. One went by on the inside and the other on the outside. Fabulous!! Somehow they had it sorted because three 917s went thundering up the hill to Druids.

I have a picture of them going through Eau Rouge side by side. It may have been immediately after the start, but it still makes you suck on your breath.

I always wondered why he sat so low in the cockpit, until revisiting a 1971 program for the British GP (printed before the tragedy), I read that he was only 5 feet tall. A little man with a great racing heart.

[Carlos Jalife]

Guys, I have been reading your stuff and I would like to make a few corrections and will do shortly, but I only want to caution you about Mr. Ed McDonough, who supposedly is writing a bio on the Rodríguez. Mr. Ed came to Mexico in the summer of 1997 I believe, he went around in a week doing interviews with some people, among them Alejandro Rodríguez, Pedro's brother, who lent him a few photos and a decal of the Scuderia Rodríguez. The man never called or said anything and after I few months I found in Classic Cars (or maybe in Classic & Sports cars, the one where Jim Elliot is at the helm, I always get those two magazines confused) a very tall tale about the Rodríguez and their debut in al Alfa Romeo Giulietta and the "official" blue colour of the Scuderia Rodríguez and coincidentally the autor was Mr. Ed, and he was restoring a Giulietta to look like the Rodríguez one and was going to put the decal (s) in it and have it as a trophy of his knowledge. Well, I answered with a four page letter detailing all his, excuse my french, stupidity. I do not know if the British media bought it or just accepted his word since he has been a member of them for ages, though he is a yankee as far as I know. He is a liar, his research is shoddy to say the least and he has not returned the photos Alejandro lent him (I know, since I am the Secretary general in the Scuderia and Alex was the first president until 1999 when we elected a new one and he is now a Board member ony, just like the Rodríguez sister, Conchita). The guy is really a joke. I am writing a bio of the Rodríguez, 400 pages so far, over 350 races, over 150 cars in the Rodriguez register which we are creating, and his research, sent to some mexican friends was about 50 races, not even all the F1 ones. A small piece of my work appeared in Cavallino recently in English and I have written other pieces for several mexican magazines in Spanish , just as a way of keeping them in the eye of our mexican public. Beware of Mr. Ed, he is not what he seems and he is very good at making things up. We have a site at ww.scuderia.com.mx, the largest in the world about motorsports (in spanish language) with about 10,000 articles and some 150 more every week. I am the main writer and editor and it is just a hobby. I just want to set the record straight so I'll write again to correct a few things like Ricardo dying at 21, no he was only 20 when he died. And it is great to know that there are rodriguisti still around in the world. By the way, I do not agree with whomever said Pedro was not a great GP driver. He won in a BRM at the classic circuit of Spa. What else do you need? He took on consecutive laps Brabham, Stewart, Rindt and Amon and he had a BRM, for god sake's, a BRM not a Cosworth engined machine, and he was using Dunlop who wre on their way out defeated by US technology. What was the previous victory of BRM?. Stewart at Monza or maybe Bruce Mclaren in the Tasman series? Did you see him in Zandvoort 1971 in the BRM against Ickx in the Ferrari, and how he held the faster one at bay until his car started misfiring (it was a BRM after all). And all the times like Canada and USA in 1970 when he had to stop to refuel because of the thirsty engine of the BRM (with no significant -if any- advantage in power over the other cars), and lost the race. And the battle against Hill in the Lobster claw Brabham he was having supension trouble which made his car a handful, so what you are saying is probably true, but he couldn't do much more, he was in a BRM after all, and whatever the problem, he compensated for it. He did things no one else did in a BRM, and Siffert waited until Pedro died to win at Austria, a circuit where Pedro would have obliterated the swiss (just remember the Austria 1000K a few weeks before his death) and Gethin won at monza in pedro's car, another place where Pedro would have won (remember the previous year how he led until the BRM failed). Still, you are entitled to you opinion, but don't base in in a non championship event run with a poorly handling BRM. By the way. was it Motor Sport where they declared the Porsche 917 the best racing car ever? Well, who was he best ever driver of the best ever car? Pedro. That should say something about the man. In a good car he would do miracles. In a bad car he would also do miracles but they were called "finishing in the points".
One last thing, he was not 5 feet tall, that's probably subhuman or pygmy or something. He was 1.68 meters or 5 feet six inches and a bit more. I think he was about the same height as Jimmy Clark and his driving style with the chin up was the same style Ricardo, his brother had, not because they were short (Ricardo was 1.67) but because they were imitating some other driver they liked and saw him drive like that. Moisés Solana, the other F1 mexican driver of those times, used to bother Pedro (never Ricado) telling him to put some cushion in the seat so he could see better. Moisés was no big man, 1.70 metres but he was the world's top front man in jai alai besides a damned good driver, and he was the one who could hold his own in Mexico against the Rodríguez, the only one.

[Don Capps]

Carlos,

First, welcome to the Forum! Delighted to have you join us.

Second, I hope that you and others will continue to make us 'smarter' on the history of motor sports in Mexico.

Third, personally, I always liked the Rodriguez brothers and still recall being shocked when I heard about Ricardo's death -- and completely dismayed when I heard about Pedro's.

I was fortunate to meet Pedro at various races in the US and Canada over the years. The last time I spoke with him was at the Can-Am race at Road Atlanta in 1970. I was just back from Viet-Nam and had managed to convince a radio station to send me as their 'reporter.' I interviewed Pedro and many others that weekend -- including the Chaparral gang. However, for some reason, he told me that he felt that he just knew he could win the race, so keep an eye on him. This being when McLaren was steamrolling everyone, I thought, "Sure..."

I was very disappointed when Pedro got the lead in the BRM-Chevy, but then dropped out...

I, for one, am looking forward to your biography on the Rodriguez Brothers. As you correctly mention, so many overlook their many races in sports cars and just how many races they both ran in their relatively brief lives.

[Ray Bell]

Pedro disappointed me, his performances in the Tasman race in which I saw him being at best lacklustre.

But the story of him sitting in the corner at Longford and refusing to let the race be abandoned is the story of a true Champion.

Of course, his performances in the 917s brought a legend to life. I don't really believe he was that much better than Seppi, for I had him as a bit of a hero since probably his Syracuse performance, with him elevated some more by other events.

Pedro's forward moves were steady, I feel, after his return from retirement. But he came alive in those tanks.

So his parallel performances in the BRMs were worth watching. That he was to win at Spa never surprised me... it delighted me. Maybe Keir will hate me for this, but it's a great thing that this happened. So Pedro...

What more could you say?

Except, of course, that he must have looked great in a fat V8-powered Can-Am car...

[Carlos Jalife]

OK, lacklustre perfomances in the Tasman. Sounds interesting. Pedro was just named the new BRM leader (Mike Spence had other ideas) and after south Africa he is sent to an 8 tour of the South Pacific. Worse still, it is in a reduced power BRM, and worst, he is seconfd in the team to Bruce Mclaren who doesn't even run for BRM but is on a one-off obligated by his use of the BRM engine in his McLaren.
The car stinks, if you don't believe me read the letter Brcue sent to Lou Stanley, it should appear in a second book of BRM by Doug Nye but an excerpt appears in Eion Young's book. Pedro is far from home and he doesn´t like much the idea. he finds that he doesn't settle all that wll with the anglo gang, who insist on being naked all day long (OK they use bathing suits) and play criquet and Pedro, who's ultra tidy and preppy to use a modrn tterm, hangs around with them dressed in linen trousers, italian shoes, and long shirts (dress shirts not polo) because that is normal for him. he likes to dive, he was an excelelent diver, a great charro and skier (water) among other things, and he feels a bit lost there. He gives his best, his start at Pukehoke is great (rain earlier. had a wet track, you know the rest) but clearly he is no match for Jimmy or Chris in that car. He fills out the firsat four races in NZ and then ewthere's a 1 week break. What does he do? He flies acroos the world with his own money to Daytona to race the 24 Hours. In a shitty car becasue Don Enzo threw a tantrum and there are no P5 prototypes for that year so he gets in a Dino 206S, old car, and goes against Porsches and Alfas with their officail teams, scares them to death for a while and then retires, je goes back to Austrralia for 4 more weeks of racing and still he does it as a pro, get a few good results, gest beaten in the rain by guys using superior tyres liek Piers Courage and then goes back to England and then to Sebring. His racing might not have been great but he was a racer. Who else would cross the world to go race at daytona spending more time in the panes than in the actual race. Only Pedro. And just remember he gave his all to a team John Surtees declared dead in 1969. I hope this gives some perspective on Tasman races.
On to some stuff. The list by Luis felipe was taken from a spanish site called The F1 and it has several mistakes. I know becasue I told their historian Felix Muelas about those. Just an example. The race at Brtands 1969 non championship is no even considered and here in this thread we have the proof it was run with the excellent picture of our fellow writer, and the car in the back is obviously Pedro's, it even has the #12 used in South Africa earlier in the year and of course the red band instead of the orange one (and in many pictures it impossible to distinguish one from the other); the Pedro at Nurburgring 1969 Ferrari 312P spyder photo is courtesy of Boris Schelegelmilch, check his site, great guy; the Monaco 1971 story is true but after Chiron starts telling (with hand signals) Pedro to move back, Then teh swedes peterson and Wisell start moving too to fill the vacant space left by Pedro and Chiron has to let the flag fall before everyone else moves.
About Le Mans. The first book in the bio I am writing is ready and will be called Rodríguez at Le Mans with a full description of the 14 races the brothers ran there. Pedro 14, Ricardo only 4. They only ran together in 1959, 1961 and 1962. In 1960 they were separated by the Scuderia ferrari who didn't want them together becasue they were very dangerous together (they had rolled a car in the Targa and yet came seventh) and stuff like that. Of course they werr dangerous but to the official team when running for the NART against them. They wer split and pedro's car )and Von Trips similar 250TR) both ran of fuel due to poor math on Ferrri's part. Ricardo went with Pilette (dad not Teddy) and he raced to second and never got permission to deo more and Pilette wuldn't race with him becasue the leaders were two other belgians, Frere and gendebien. Ricardo was furios, they tried to have Pedro substitute por Pilette but Ferrari would have none of ity so the brothers swore never again separated and they didn't run against each other ever again in L eMans. In 1961 with NART they scared the official team and took the lead for long periods against Phil and Gendebien until the car went down very late in the race hen they wer still seconf and catching uop after earlier trouble. In 1962 they had the samalles Ferrari possible a 2.4 liter and had a great race against Phil and gendebien with a 23309TR and they led most of the time in a great performance (give anyone now an LMP 675 against an Audi LMP 900 and expect them to run in the lead, that would be the equivalent). They broke the car about two thirds but before Ricardo died a great race came , the Paris 1962 1000K, run 10 days before Ricardo died. They had a GTO and went against a lot of similar cars but they won by beating John Surtees and Mike Parkes into second place, fair and square, although putting Mike in the same league as the brithers and John is a bit unrealistic. We all know John would be a partner with Ricardo next year (1963) in Ferrari and Pedro was going to get tested too in the team so we might speculate a bit abvut who would have been the champion in 1964 with a good Ferrari, and it might not have been John but Ricardo. Who knows? Let's just end with a note. In 1963 with ricardo gone, pedro went to Le Mans and used the old 330TR now sold to NART. His partner was Roger Penske and for the first time there was going to be a start based on times not engine displacement. Pedro offered the first PP to Ricardo's memory and got it. He knew he would never win 'their' race with his brother but he then and there said he was ready to take over and be considered as good as Ricardo. He was.

[Carlos Jalife]

Hi guys, I'm also mexican and let me state a few things about the Rodríguez brothers's deaths. Ricardo died in 1962 in the non championship GP in Mexico. He was driving Rob Walker's Lotus, a Lotus 24 with a V8 Climax. Pedro didn't even prtractcie that day so Luis glipe is wrong. Ricardo set up the first track record, the John Surtees went and broke it near the end in a Lotus rented or borrowed from Jack Brabham because John used a Lola usually. Ricardo was told and his dad arrived late (the Ferrari Ricardo had brought from Europe a 250 GTE 2+2 had just arrived and dad wnt to pick it up) and asked to see him run so Ricardo went out just to reclaim the record. He went by onece, signaled everything was OK and in the Preraltada, befor the finish line, he died. I hac¿ve pcitures and I have seen the files of the Attorney general here. I have also talke dto Rob who swears nothing broke but the sad fact is something broke in the rear end of the car and made it rurn heaily towards the left, up the peraltada (36° banking) and crash the barrier which was a bit too high and the nose cone was trapped under the barrier and the car sort of threw Ricarfdo who landed in the same barrier (bad luck) and was almost cut in 2. If he had lost it he would have lost it in different ways not turning sharp left to hit the armco. He was an expert in that track and he knew what he was doing. He died because of a Lotus's (sue me Colin) fragility not because of his skill. And about him being a bit green, well he had been champion of motorcucles when he was 14 at national levels, he had raced since he was 15 and he had driven cars far more powerful than the Lotus so he was no Kimi with only 23 races behind. remember Innes ireland's car, a Lotus 24 snapped a hub practicing the day after Ricardo died, so Lotus was to blame if anyone. I am a long life Lots fan and they were great cars but they killed zillions of drivers, more than any other brand probably. Too bad one was Ricardo.
About Pedro, he knew the ferrari 512 fairly well, he raced it in Can Am with NART, but this example was one used in the film about Le mnas produced by Steve McQueen and it was abit tatty. Owned by jerb Muller, Pedro was racing against people like Bonnier, Gethin and Leo Kinnunen (not a bunch of amateurs please) plus a few nos so well known guys in the Interseries races. He was leading in the 12th lap and the wheel collapsed, maybe the hub gave, so he hit the Nazi concrete stands and the barrier and was dead by a fractured skull although they revived him 4 times between the track and the hospital in Nuremberg. Some guys blamed a man named Kurt Hild of not giving way but it didn't matter, he never even realized Pedro was there so fast.
Both Pedro and Ricardo were catholics, they were what you would call fatalists. They thought you die where God wants you too, no matter what and your destiny is written previously so you might as well take all the precautions but if God says it is the tiem it will be the time, no matter what. They found their destiny in the race track and that's it. They knew their cars but they faced God whenever he wanted it. One was November 1, 1962, the other July 11, 1971.
Well, that does it for now.
Carlos Jalife (the Rodríguez biographer)
PS Can I borrow the slide from Spa man? I promise I will treat them right.

[Ray Bell]

Lest you think, Carlos, that my comment meant that he was inferior, it didn't.

He and the BRM, as a combination, were disappointing to me. The V8 cars had come here in 1966 and 1967 and done well, but the V12s, which I had longed to see, failed to live up to this standard.

His heroism, and that's about the level one has to say he was on, at Longford. He filled second place there after being eighth on the grid...

He actually drove a V8 at Warwick Farm, coming sixth, his best placing in Australia other than Longford... but well behind Courage in the 1.6 McLaren. Surfers Paradise saw him eighth on the gird in the V12 and a non finisher.

As for McLaren, he didn't run the BRMs in Australia, quitting the series after the NZ rounds...

It was a sad series for that team. The highlight, without a doubt, was Pedro sitting in the corner amid all the quivering drivers, calmly saying: "We race!"