15 replies to this topic

[David Beard]

I have never thought of Surtees F1 cars as particularly pretty or engineeringly elegant machines...but on Monday I was very taken by the TS 20 at the TGP Donington meeting. I don't think I have seen one of these in the flesh before. The way the slope of the tub, radiators and cam covers goes together is pure art. The pull rod front suspension which contrives to leave the spring damper unit well into the air stream is a little bizarre, but other than that...gorgeous.

Who helped Big John with his pen?

[petefenelon]

Wasn't it Ken Sears?

I'll tell you what though, that tub looks very similar to a BRM P201. What was Mike Pilbeam doing at the time apart from starting to design hillclimb cars?;)

[dolomite]

Mike Pilbeam designed the Lec CRP1 didn't he?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by dolomite
Mike Pilbeam designed the Lec CRP1 didn't he?

Good point, blame the Bombay Sapphire ;)

[marat]

TS 20 was an evolution of TS 19.
John Surtees used to say that those designs were his own work.

[Mallory Dan]

IIRC when the TS19 was launched the tub was described as looking similar to a Brabham BT44. I can see this partly, but not completely. Agree with David, I think the TS20 was a good looker, and wonder how it'd have gone if the team had a little more money to develop, and it had come a year earlier, ie before ground effects.

The TS20+ derivative was also a nice looking car in Aurora late 79 until Ray Mallock wrote it off early 1980. Was this one rebuilt does anyone know ?

[David McKinney]

I don't believe the TS20B was ever rebuilt
Nor, while we're at it, was the TS21 ever completed

[Ruairidh]

IIRC at the time that the TS19 was introduced there were two main strands of comment on it. The first was how nice the car looked [left unsaid for the most part was "for a Surtees"] and secondly amusement around the London Rubber Company's sponsorship of it. I also like the TS19/TS20 line.

[David Beard]

According to the Hodges A-Z, the TS 20+ had ground effect pods stuck on the pyramid tub, which sounds must unlikely to have worked. The front springs, however, were at least banished to their rightful hiding place.

[SEdward]

I well remember Alan Jones leading much of the 1976 Race of Champions in the TS19. And a very good-looking car it was too.

Auntie Beeb declined to cover the event because of the Durex sponsorship. A good job they did too, because I don't think that anyone ever imagined that Jones would be in the lead for most of the race.

Edward.

[Pedro 917]

Here's a picture from the Nürburgring Old Timer GP 2003 :

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Ruairidh
IIRC at the time that the TS19 was introduced there were two main strands of comment on it. The first was how nice the car looked [left unsaid for the most part was "for a Surtees"] and secondly amusement around the London Rubber Company's sponsorship of it. I also like the TS19/TS20 line.

In my recall the Surtees cars were always very highly regarded for their standards of construction and finish - John would accept nothing less...their sometime competitiveness was often another matter....but they really were beautifully built and those which have not been extensively rebuilt have in fact lasted well.

DCN

[Gary C]

is that Terry Sayles' car? If so, he's had that car ages. I once saw him in it at the Nubrugring in 1995, he managed three laps all weekend, broke three (I think) driveshafts.

[David McKinney]

The TJS Self Drive logo would seem to be a clue

[Gary C]

ah, hadn't actully spotted that !!

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


In my recall the Surtees cars were always very highly regarded for their standards of construction and finish - John would accept nothing less...their sometime competitiveness was often another matter....but they really were beautifully built and those which have not been extensively rebuilt have in fact lasted well.

DCN

I meant to convey that the TS19 was thought to have lines that were more pleasing to the eye than the previous Surtees, not that it was bettter built or finished than its ancestors.

Given the relative lack of funds that Team Surtees operated with in the '70s it is to their credit that the cars were well built and finished.