86 replies to this topic

[kickWHEEL]

ESPN has listed 60 common sports and ranked them according to how tough they are. Boxing is the clear winner. Auto racing (F1) comes up at number 32.

Not much to argue against that.

Auto racing has been allocated the highest nerve factor of all sports - the ability to overcome fear . This means that race drivers are the gutsiest people around. Which we all know.

Auto racing also scores 3rd when it comes to analytical aptitude and 5th on hand-eye coordination. However, the sport has a lower endurance factor than figure skating.

I think this is a very good reference for any future discussion about F1 versus other sports.

http://sports.espn.g...ge2/sportSkills

[BorderReiver]

What a load of rubbish, as a keen amatuer Rugby player and Racer I know which takes the more out of me.

[dai_ferrari]

That report by so-called experts is full of ****.

How incredibly convenient the top three *American* sports beat out soccer for example.

And you need more endurance in swimming than in soccer. Hmmm...let's see if you swim the 100 meters, your race is over in seconds, and even if you race in 400 meters, your race is over in just over a minute, while in a soccer match, if anyone has ever looked at the tests and studies they've done over the years, guys are running miles literally. changing speeds all the time, and sometimes even having to endure extra time as well, and while in auto racing you're racing in hot conditions in a small cramped cockpit for anywhere from 1-1/2 to 2 hours, while racing at speeds up to 250-300 km's an hour as similiar guys around you try to beat you.



Also it's really fun to see a sport like fencing and badminton is much more demanding than auto racing.

[BorderReiver]

Actually, having Rugby below American Football is a complete joke anyway. Same sort of game, except Rugby doesn't stop for a breather every few seconds, and when you get hit it actually hurts. . . .

[Vilenova]

edited.... nevermind

[Ross Stonefeld]

The reason racing has such a low respect with the man on the street is because its not relative to anything you do. You and I can kick a football around on the weekends and imagine what it might be like to play in the World Cup. But driving a road car doesnt equate to racing. You have no frame of reference of how hot it is, how much it wears you out, how much concentration it takes, etc.

[Vilenova]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
The reason racing has such a low respect with the man on the street is because its not relative to anything you do. You and I can kick a football around on the weekends and imagine what it might be like to play in the World Cup. But driving a road car doesnt equate to racing. You have no frame of reference of how hot it is, how much it wears you out, how much concentration it takes, etc.

You've obviously never driven my old pickup.
Everytime I got back from work my wife would hang a wreath around my neck and hand me a jar of milk.

[benn5325]

Originally posted by Vilenova


Everytime I got back from work my wife would hang a wreath around my neck and hand me a jar of milk.

[_bigbadbob_]

KickWHEEL, you should probably kick that article ;)

There have been many discussions regarding physical exertion in F1, most recently this one. If you have an AtlasF1 subscription, you can also read this article which deals with driver fitness.

The general consensus is that F1 is one of the most physically demanding sports. Of course, it's less "tough" than many endurance sports, but it is certainly not the 32nd toughest sport out of 60.

As some posters have already replied, the article is a biased load of rubbish.

[MuMu]

Well seeing that they used baseball players etc to compile this chart, I'm not surprised at the rankings.

[George Bailey]

I can't wait to see more opinions about the effort required to play various professional sports from people who have never themselves played the sports in question. :


It's a subjective list, subjective lists are always "wrong" because there is no "right" answer. Move along people, nothing to see....

[Engineguy]

Just the fact that they lumped all types of drivers into one catagory illustrates the silliness of this. A drag racer, an F1 driver, and a NASCAR driver (34/36ths of the season) do very different things in a race car, to the extent that they are as different as baseball is to basketball. Looking at the panels' bios, it looked very stick 'n ball oriented. Doubt that any, let alone all, of these people have a clue about auto racing, or for that matter many of the sports they passed judgement on. How could anone be deeply knowledgeable about that many sports (i.e. "I saw a rugby match on TV once, I'd give it a 6.73 in this, a 3.55 in that...").

It's just fodder to give all those 24 hour a day sports talk radio networks (i.e. ESPN Sports Radio) something to talk about and debate. We can all pipe in here and bash or support this or that sport but then we're just falling into their trap and doing the same thing giving our own biased and ill-informed opions that have no more or less validity.

[Congo]

Well, they got hockey at the top, so they can't be too far off.

Hehe...of course I am Canadian.

Congo

[dai_ferrari]

Originally posted by George Bailey
It's a subjective list, subjective lists are always "wrong" because there is no "right" answer. Move along people, nothing to see....

Problem is that ESPN are taking themselves or the panel way too serious. It seems to me from the article that to them this is almost fact, as they had a *bonafide* panel of experienced and balanced experts making the picks. In their words...Take the word of our panel of experts, a group made up of sports scientists from the United States Olympic Committee, of academicians who study the science of muscles and movement, of a star two-sport athlete, and of journalists who spend their professional lives watching athletes succeed and fail.

[thanos]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Actually, having Rugby below American Football is a complete joke anyway. Same sort of game, except Rugby doesn't stop for a breather every few seconds, and when you get hit it actually hurts. . . .

It hurts a lot in american football too. The players in the NFL are much bigger and faster than in rugby. Many 280 lb defensive lineman can run 40 yards in less than 5 seconds.

From a purely endurance level, yeah soccer and rugby would be more taxing than american football. But using only that criteria, marathon runners and cyclists would be above soccer and rugby.

American football has about 100 maximum excertion-plays each game. Each play lasts about 10-15 seconds. After the play ends, the players still have to run back to the huddle and start again within 35 seconds. Other sports are played at a lower intensity level for a longer amount of time. Sure american football players get little rest breaks, but their opponents do too. They're always going against an opponent that can give near 100% maximum excertion.

[Seat18E]

Originally posted by Vilenova

You've obviously never driven my old pickup.
Everytime I got back from work my wife would hang a wreath around my neck and hand me a jar of milk.

Brilliant - My new sig!





Of course if you don't mind.

[George Bailey]

Originally posted by dai_ferrari
Problem is that ESPN are taking themselves or the panel way too serious. It seems to me from the article that to them this is almost fact, as they had a *bonafide* panel of experienced and balanced experts making the picks. In their words...Take the word of our panel of experts, a group made up of sports scientists from the United States Olympic Committee, of academicians who study the science of muscles and movement, of a star two-sport athlete, and of journalists who spend their professional lives watching athletes succeed and fail.

What I'm trying to say is there is no way you and I can agree about which of those "expert" opinions are right or wrong. Any knock on them is indirectly a knock at anyone offering an opinion.

[LB]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Actually, having Rugby below American Football is a complete joke anyway. Same sort of game, except Rugby doesn't stop for a breather every few seconds, and when you get hit it actually hurts. . . .

It hurts in US Football too, far more so actually - I take it you haven't played. When you take the pads off at the end of the game you can see the bruises in between the padding. The local doctor was on first name terms with the entire squad we were injured that often.

Having said that I did get injured playing Rugby...

As for the poll, its a joke, Baseball is far too high up and all the better known sports are at the top. the toughest two sports in the world are Nordic Skiing and Rowing - theres not many baseball machines in gyms to get fit is there.

Oh and George I will knock their panel all I want because their opinion is a crock of shite built on ignorance. Auto racing only wins on nerve? I tell you I'd rather fly round a Nascar track ( lets face it they were thinking Nascar) than throw myself off a mountain strapped to two wooden planks with nice chunky trees to hit if it goes wrong. Auto racing is also in the bottom 10 in speed (eh!) tied with golf. Now speed by definition is the ability to move quickly obviously these buffoons that judged this don't know how fast you have to be in a cockpit at times.. Someone should send them a tape of a rally driver at work..

Oh and cheerleaders stronger than racing drivers. go get a clue ...

[LB]

heh I was just on the debate thing attached to article - "expert" Jim Caple ( one of the 8 clowns that came up with this bs) expressed his opinion on Auto Racing " Thats not a sport , its traffic"

That about sums up the validity of this rubbish.

[checkonetwo]

excuse me, is cheerleading a sport these days ?


that`s brilliant.

[metz]

Originally posted by LB
heh I was just on the debate thing attached to article - "expert" Jim Caple ( one of the 8 clowns that came up with this bs) expressed his opinion on Auto Racing " Thats not a sport , its traffic"

That about sums up the validity of this rubbish.

Yes,
Someone has a sig that points out that Mountain Climbing, Bull Fighting and Auto Racing are the ONLY sports and all others are just games.
If they forgot to included 2 out of 3 sports, and don't understand the one they did include, it ain't much of a list...

[100cc]

Originally posted by kickWHEEL

Auto racing has been allocated the highest nerve factor of all sports - the ability to overcome fear . This means that race drivers are the gutsiest people around. Which we all know.

I dont think so. Imo race car driving requires almost no "nerve" at all. I dont get why you would need guts to drive a race car? - you're in control, its not as if you cant hit the brakes.

[chris_canuk]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Actually, having Rugby below American Football is a complete joke anyway. Same sort of game, except Rugby doesn't stop for a breather every few seconds, and when you get hit it actually hurts. . . .

I've played both, and I've also played soccer. American football does not even compare to rugby or soccer. I would also rank squash, cross country skiing, and extreme downhill skiing tougher than American football. I also tried water polo once but my horse drowned.

[metz]

Originally posted by 100cc


I dont think so. Imo race car driving requires almost no "nerve" at all. I dont get why you would need guts to drive a race car? - you're in control, its not as if you cant hit the brakes.

They must be thinking of the "death penalty" for driving in the IRL... :

[chris_canuk]

Originally posted by checkonetwo
excuse me, is cheerleading a sport these days ?


that`s brilliant.

If they (the females) aren't wearing panties I know it gets my heartrate up.

It's as much a sport as curling, billiards, shooting, and fishing.

[LB]

Originally posted by metz

They must be thinking of the "death penalty" for driving in the IRL... :

we had the ambulance service on speed dial at the ski centre I worked in.

Chris Canuk what position did you play in US Football cos the line is vicious.

[chris_canuk]

Originally posted by LB


we had the ambulance service on speed dial at the ski centre I worked in.

Chris Canuk what position did you play in US Football cos the line is vicious.

I played high school football in Canada. I was on for 60 minutes... running back, safety, and special teams. i played rugby and soccer before football so my stamina was excellent, as was my tolerance for pain. Then I started smoking. I also caught in baseball.

[100cc]

Originally posted by metz

They must be thinking of the "death penalty" for driving in the IRL... :

yeah i guess...

The ratings seem like fan-ratings. Ratings from people that have never tried the sport. I'm not looking now but i think Pole-Vault was pretty high in the nerve factor as well. Ask any pole-vaulter if they need to overcome fear to jump and they'll laugh at you. For a first-timer fear might be a limiting factor but once you've done it a few times its not. Maybe in something like the Super-g (or something) downhill skiing you have to keep overcoming the fear, but then again i'm just looking at it from the outside. I think the "nerve" factor is quite stupid in judging any sport, i dont really understand why it was included in the "ratings."

[rgagne]

They dont know much about auto racing if they think they can consider all motor sports as 1 thing for all these very specific points...

RGagne

[Ross Stonefeld]

When I played sports in school football was a hell of a lot rougher than soccer. Hell basketball is at least as agressive as soccer, though you dont get knocked over as much

[holiday]

Originally posted by metz
Someone has a sig that points out that Mountain Climbing, Bull Fighting and Auto Racing are the ONLY sports and all others are just games.

If Bull fighting is a sport, then how comes only the one side constantly wins?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well in F1 the horse seems to win more often than not

[metz]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Well in F1 the horse seems to win more often than not

you beat me to it

[holiday]

Well in F1 the horse seems to win more often than not

Can't be a serious argument, can it?

In F1 the Ferrari success is contingent, after all, but in bull fighting the success of the matadores is structural determined.

Sports is defined as 'equality of conditions', but in bull fighting there is no such condition, hence it is not a sport.

[ffiloseta]

Some experts. Giving 3 to Tennis in the "Nerve" cathegory !

I believe Tennis and Golf should score right near Auto racing as Nerve wreckers.

[skinnylizard]

i see they left cricket out.

[hedges]

Baseball tougher than Rugby, that is just a joke. Any baseball fan think they can justify that?

American Football vs Rugby is an interesting one as they have comparable positions, but are played in two totally different styles. Rugby, a team full of multi purpose athletes giving it their all for more or less 80 mins and American Football, three teams of athletes locked into specific tasks, giving as someoone earlier said maximum effort in short bursts.

I can't see how Rugby is rated any less "tough" though, unless the "experts" just don't understand the game.

[xflow7]

Originally posted by 100cc


I dont think so. Imo race car driving requires almost no "nerve" at all. I dont get why you would need guts to drive a race car? - you're in control, its not as if you cant hit the brakes.

Are you being serious with this remark? You can make that argument about ANYTHING. Fine, mountain climbing takes no guts because you can always choose not to make the next move. Sure there is the risk of the unexpected, but that exists as surely in racing as in anything else. Ask Michele Alboreto, or Jim Clark, or Roland Ratzenberger, or Senna. Oh, wait...

[Nasty McBastard]

Originally posted by checkonetwo
excuse me, is cheerleading a sport these days ?


that`s brilliant.

it is if you watch espn...and thats the problem.....

so is jump rope and bass fishing

[jondoe955]

I just read about a study of a big 'bowl' football game. They only counted the time the ball was in play during the 3.5 hour televised game. It was under 18 minutes! But I've watched a lot of races with less 'action' than that...
I have seen competitive cheerleading on TV. Whatever it is, it's very demanding.

[The Vulcan]

Originally posted by checkonetwo
excuse me, is cheerleading a sport these days ?


that`s brilliant.

The next thing we will do is to have SEX as a sport!!

[Schuperman]

Originally posted by The Vulcan
The next thing we will do is to have SEX as a sport!!

The first finisher is the first loser....

[Williams]

There was a similar article on this done by a magazine back in the 80's (I think the question was "which sport requires the 'biggest balls' ") and they came to the same conclusion. Racing ranked fairly high, but boxing won overall. Some of the criteria used were: personal risk, public pressure, physical and mental difficulty, and a host of other items.

An example they picked as not requiring a lot of "balls" was baseball (please don't take this as a slight against baseball, it's just an example) : little personal risk, not so much public pressure (because being part of a team the responsibility for risk is spread among teammates), not a physically demanding game, etc. That's not to say it doesn't require skill, but skills were not a large factor in defining "tough".

Motorsports rated high because of the personal risk (especially back then and a bit earlier) and public pressure (although part of a team, the driver tends to have a lot of public responsibility for failure).

Boxing won overall because of the grave personal risk (getting at least hurt pretty much guaranteed, and perhaps permanently injured or even killed), and the huge public pressure (other than the trainer, a boxer is truly alone stepping int the ring). Basically no other athlete puts it all on the line the way a boxer does, and its hard to argue with boxing being the "toughest" sport, if you interpret tough as having the "grandes cojones".

[Ross Stonefeld]

How does a boxer put it on the line any more than other atheletes?

[Williams]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
How does a boxer put it on the line any more than other atheletes?

Read my post.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I did, and I dont see what the real wow factor is. They're no more alone than anyone doing this summer's olympics.

I used to train at a boxing gym and its the most insane workout ive ever done, and I watched lots of amateurs/pros practice, and while they go at it just as hard as anyone else, it ultimately seems pretty stupid. I know that there's skill and strategy in boxing, but trying to beat the hell out of someone else with your fists isnt much of a sport to me.

[Williams]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I did, and I dont see what the real wow factor is. They're no more alone than anyone doing this summer's olympics.

I used to train at a boxing gym and its the most insane workout ive ever done, and I watched lots of amateurs/pros practice, and while they go at it just as hard as anyone else, it ultimately seems pretty stupid. I know that there's skill and strategy in boxing, but trying to beat the hell out of someone else with your fists isnt much of a sport to me.

So your argument that boxers don't put it all on the line more than other athletes is that "it's pretty stupid" and "it's is not much of a sport" ?

[Ross Stonefeld]

No, that was in my first paragraph where I compared them to Olympians who are just as independent.

My comment about beating someone's face in not being a sport is a seperate but related topic.

[indigoid]

My former partner was a competitive swimmer in her earlier years. She says that the only significant difference between 50, 100, or even 200 laps of an Olympic pool is how bored she gets. Obviously she can't go forever at sprint speed, but she can swim for a very long time at a fairly reasonable speed (faster than I can manage!) without getting awfully tired or sore.

And those people talking about soccer should really try playing Australian Rules football I've played both, and soccer seemed like hardly any effort.

I don't doubt that the F1 guys have to be supremely fit. F1 magazine had an article about one particular driver's training regime, and it sounded like absolute hell. It's hardly a surprise that they have boxy muscular jaws. Coulthard and Schumacher, in particular. Just add steel teeth and you've got yourself Jaws II for the new 007 movies

j.

[Williams]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
No, that was in my first paragraph where I compared them to Olympians who are just as independent.

My comment about beating someone's face in not being a sport is a seperate but related topic.

But olympians don't take the personal risks that pro boxers do. In terms of "toughness", and by "being alone" I mean that a boxer goes into a ring by himself, his personal triumph or failure is very much down to himself, in front of a large audience watching only him and nobody else, and he might not even come back out again still breathing.

A high-profile pro boxing event puts the spotlight on one individual, from the athlete's POV, much more than an olympian competing aginst a dozen or more athletes in a number of events over several days.

That's what I mean by "putting it on the line". Not that other athletes don't do that, just that it's more so in pro boxing.