29 replies to this topic

[JR]

http://community.vug...0lkD.1@.f020dd5

Maybe now GPL fans can move on with their lives...

Kinda a shame really I was hoping one day they'd return to F1 sims and who knows maybe even release a 1980's F1 sim.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Maybe it will free up some of the founding members to go and start afresh. I believe it wasn't their decision to stop GPL2?

[mahelgel]

Not sure what to think... Papy gave us the indycar series, GPL and the Nascar series. All excelent sims, and way ahead of their competition on all releases...

Still, the Nascar only releases they have had lately hasn't really been my kind of sims, but i do understand that please a lot of people, and that they are way ahead of the EA products.

What would have been great was if the key people in Papyrus made another singleseater sim under a new publisher. Although i do fear a bit that the days of really good racingsims are on its way out, as the consoll arcade market is where the big bucks are made. With Sony having the F1 lisence, i don't think we will see a proper f1 sim in the near future either. Codmaster seems to have the irl lisence, and i don't think there will be much of a sim from them, as they tend to do arcadeish releases.

A lower formula sim (i would have no problems racing lower formulas if the sim felt right), or a new "legends" sim from the past days of glory without the need of expensive lisences would be great though. And about the only people i fully believe can make such a sim great, are the masters behind the Papyrus sims.

At my next GPL session, i will have to have a "minute of silence" in the pits before i drive out on track, remebering all the great times the Papy sims have given me...

[Cypher]

Nooooo!

GPL and the NASCAR series were the best sims.

Hmmm... good luck to the former Papyrus guys then.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Who'll end up with the GPL Intellectual. Property rights?

[MaxScelerate]

Sierra/Vivendi, I guess.

It's a bit like Sid Meier's Civilization game, which became "Sid Meier's Civilization™ 2 (or 3)" even though Sid didn't work in that company anymore.

[Mat]

it is a shame that these have stopped for most likely 2 or 3 years, but it isnt the end of the world. It actually means i'll be able to get in more than 3/4 of a season in NASCAR before a new version comes out!

NASCAR Racing 2003, GPL and GP4 are great games i think. It will hopefully give the gaming community to create some mods and they will be continue to be improved.

and im too worried, eventually we will have another racing game of merit to play.

[Sandeep Banerjee]

I bid adieu, O great people at Papyrus...you opened up my eyes to historic racing and made me the racing fanatic that I am now. Thank each and everyone of you and I wish you all the best of luck for the future and hope you get to attain your dream of making a sim u really WANT to, instead of doing what a greedy publisher wants you to.

Knut, I don't think even if Codies didn't have the IRL license, it'd been a good choice to lavish Papy's skills on. I mean, even in reallife, its practically 'arcade'...for lack of a better word... bar a few of the short tracks, they don't even lift for most of the tracks...and its spec-racing, that too...

What my dream was that Papy would try their hand at making a rally sim. Its obvious that a rally sim would've been the best of all challenges as nothings harder than trying to simulate accurately the various surfaces and more importantly, their effect on the tyre modelling...

Ah well...lets hope for the best...

[babbel]

Maybe they can go to the UK and help out the west brothers

[mahelgel]

babbel:
I think their help would be welcome

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I'm afraid Papy's help won't be up to Wests' standards.

[Psychoman]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
I'm afraid Papy's help won't be up to Wests' standards.

Well they need some help getting that game off the ground SOMEHOW.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Originally posted by Psychoman

Well they need some help getting that game off the ground SOMEHOW.

But if you finish the game, it's not going to be perfect, and the Wests can't afford to have an imperfect game.

[Psychoman]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller


But if you finish the game, it's not going to be perfect, and the Wests can't afford to have an imperfect game.

But an imperfect game will still pay back the investors faster than an unfinished masterpiece.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Originally posted by Psychoman

But an imperfect game will still pay back the investors faster than an unfinished masterpiece.

If you haven't noticed, I'm being sardonic about the whole West thing.

[babbel]

It's not at Duke Nukem Forever levels yet but Racing Legends might make it into the Vaporware list for 2004 if we try hard enough ;)

[acey]

Think there will be a RL demo out soon...;)

[Psychoman]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller


If you haven't noticed, I'm being sardonic about the whole West thing.

God, I'm horrible with that kinda stuff if it isn't 100% obvious to me

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Psychoman

God, I'm horrible with that kinda stuff if it isn't 100% obvious to me

Ah bless. As a Steven Wright fan you must be fine really, it's just the whole lack of facial expressions and tone of voice on the net that makes it tough.

I think it's really sad that Papy can't get the money to develop sims. Yet another example that crapness rules. Damn it. It is strange how marketing people and investors can be so narrow minded about true innovators. Maybe they need to talk to Microsoft, they need A grade titles on their brand and from what I hear are good to work with (despite the preconceptions). Microsoft have the best flight sim on their brand, hiring Papyrus to have the best racing sim would be a win win situation.

[JR]

Originally posted by masterhit


Maybe they need to talk to Microsoft, they need A grade titles on their brand and from what I hear are good to work with (despite the preconceptions). Microsoft have the best flight sim on their brand, hiring Papyrus to have the best racing sim would be a win win situation.

I certainly wouldn't say that is true. They look for people they think will make them money and more importantly games they think they can turn into franchies to make money (ie. several sequels with the Microsoft regular upgrade mentality.) They eagerly jump at already successful games developers who develop a game for them plus addons and sequels and then they release a game with a £40 price tag slapped on it. But if they don't feel they can get long term mileage out of the game it's canned.

Their one true success is Flight Simulator which at the end of the day is still a niche product. Train Simulator 2 got canned and Microsoft appear to have no further interest in it. CART Precision Racing got canned too.

(They also canned their Sidewinder hardware series - not even having the grace to support Sidewinder hardware on WindowsXP.)

Look at the list of their games titles and you will see they don't have that many successes and those that haven't had the potential to turn into a franchise...canned. It should also be noted part of Microsofts original motivation for enterting the Games market was to develop titles that would attract gamers to Windows as a gaming platform over games consoles. They've had limited success at this - this goal mostly being achieved by other developers like EA, ID, Sierra, etc.

[masterhit]

Originally posted by JR


I certainly wouldn't say that is true. They look for people they think will make them money and more importantly games they think they can turn into franchies to make money (ie. several sequels with the Microsoft regular upgrade mentality.) They eagerly jump at already successful games developers who develop a game for them plus addons and sequels and then they release a game with a £40 price tag slapped on it. But if they don't feel they can get long term mileage out of the game it's canned.

Their one true success is Flight Simulator which at the end of the day is still a niche product. Train Simulator 2 got canned and Microsoft appear to have no further interest in it. CART Precision Racing got canned too.

(They also canned their Sidewinder hardware series - not even having the grace to support Sidewinder hardware on WindowsXP.)

Look at the list of their games titles and you will see they don't have that many successes and those that haven't had the potential to turn into a franchise...canned. It should also be noted part of Microsofts original motivation for enterting the Games market was to develop titles that would attract gamers to Windows as a gaming platform over games consoles. They've had limited success at this - this goal mostly being achieved by other developers like EA, ID, Sierra, etc.

I undrerstand what you are saying but surely Papyrus primarily sell for windows PC's. I know people in Bizarre Creations who did F1 for Sony and now work for Microsoft. They are very happy with MS.

[masterhit]

Originally posted by JR


I certainly wouldn't say that is true. They look for people they think will make them money and more importantly games they think they can turn into franchies to make money (ie. several sequels with the Microsoft regular upgrade mentality.) They eagerly jump at already successful games developers who develop a game for them plus addons and sequels and then they release a game with a £40 price tag slapped on it. But if they don't feel they can get long term mileage out of the game it's canned.

Their one true success is Flight Simulator which at the end of the day is still a niche product. Train Simulator 2 got canned and Microsoft appear to have no further interest in it. CART Precision Racing got canned too.

(They also canned their Sidewinder hardware series - not even having the grace to support Sidewinder hardware on WindowsXP.)

Look at the list of their games titles and you will see they don't have that many successes and those that haven't had the potential to turn into a franchise...canned. It should also be noted part of Microsofts original motivation for enterting the Games market was to develop titles that would attract gamers to Windows as a gaming platform over games consoles. They've had limited success at this - this goal mostly being achieved by other developers like EA, ID, Sierra, etc.

I undrerstand what you are saying. I know people in Bizarre Creations who did F1 for Sony and now work for Microsoft. They are very happy with MS.

I don't personally like MS but they said they have been great to work for.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by masterhit


I undrerstand what you are saying but surely Papyrus primarily sell for windows PC's. I know people in Bizarre Creations who did F1 for Sony and now work for Microsoft. They are very happy with MS.

Yes but Martyn and co are working for MGS doing games (Xbox/Xbox2), not sims. Forza Motorsports is far closer to a sim than PGR2 is, it'll be interesting to see how it does. But yes, they are very happy with Micro$$$$oft.

[Rich]

Originally posted by JR
Their one true success is Flight Simulator which at the end of the day is still a niche product.

Age of Empires/Kings/Mythology?

[baddog]

Microsoft have in fact become remarkably succesful in games. Much more so than the industry seemed to think they would, it was widely predicted their company mindset wouldnt transfer. But they basically set up a new company with its own culture from all Ive read, and have produced some very fine titles and some huge successes. For once credit to them.

Shaun

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by baddog
Microsoft have in fact become remarkably succesful in games. Much more so than the industry seemed to think they would, it was widely predicted their company mindset wouldnt transfer. But they basically set up a new company with its own culture from all Ive read, and have produced some very fine titles and some huge successes. For once credit to them.

Shaun

They've done some reasonable things and had some great successes - but Ed Fries got canned for a very specific reason and that's the balance sheet. The culture is new and only growing within Microsoft - it will get there as more and more games industry vets turn up there. They still have a problem with promoting from within. They've had to slash a huge part of their portfolio to try and salvage financials, but they have at least done it in a very honest and admirable way. Microsoft will be a force in the games business for decades to come, this is just the start and they're still learning - but they have unmatched resources to do it.

[baddog]

Thanks for the detail ricardo. I did hear there were some rumblings of changes there to remove the somewhat manufactured 'skateboards in the hallways' culture they tried to promote for the xbox launch..

Shaun

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by baddog
Thanks for the detail ricardo. I did hear there were some rumblings of changes there to remove the somewhat manufactured 'skateboards in the hallways' culture they tried to promote for the xbox launch..

Shaun

I actually went up there to interview a couple of times, to say it was a 'changing' culture was an understatement. They had people running dev teams who were previously running parts of the "Office" suites and never played games!!! I was actually slated to run Bungie at one point, then the leads at Bungie admitted to Ed that no way was Halo2 making Xmas 04 and their right of appointment for their new chief got thrown out the window. A ex-marketing director was appointed by Ed to run the group! Since then though a lot changed, they paired down a lot, shifted their focus, worked on the business side of things. Bill wasn't happy with the sink hole that XBox became so they had to do some radical rework. Speaking to a load of the guys there at E3 it seems a lot of positive stuff has come out of it, they genuinely have some great people up there now and the future for XBox2 and their PC product looks pretty bright.

But you are very accurate, Microsoft Office producers aren't the best skateborders in the World!

[JR]

Originally posted by Rich


Age of Empires/Kings/Mythology?

Doubt as a franchise it was a success on the scale of Flight Sim. And didn't you once tell me the Ensemble guys wern't too happy working for Microsoft and were looking to leave?

I'm just bitter anyway because they canned Train Sim 2.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by JR


Doubt as a franchise it was a success on the scale of Flight Sim.

No, it's been far more successful and continues to be. AoE is HUGE.