98 replies to this topic

[RTH]

I wonder if anyone else saw this programme tonight Sunday, on BBC 4 TV (UK)

In an hour it told the story of the DMC 12 stainless steel clad Gull Wing sports car built in Northern Ireland 1979-82.
It heavily featured the unmistakable, rich , melodious tones of our own Karl Ludvigson, who is very familiar to listeners of BBC Radio 4 news and current affairs network commenting on the present world passenger car scene- often turned to in times of car company crisis for objective analysis.

Maybe like me, you might have viewed John Zackary De Lorean in very unfavourable light as a direct result of the media coverage at the time, but at 20 years distance and now as a result of this programme, I have somewhat revised this view, at least a bit, clearly by his own admission he was not whiter than white (actually I could have put that better ) £80 million of British tax payers money was lost and mainly wasted.
They did build a new car factory on a greenfield site right in the middle of one of the worlds long running trouble spots in record time , they trained and gave well paid jobs to 2700 people built 7000 $22000 cars at a rate of 80 a day.
As is now a matter of record the car was far too hastily designed using many unsuitable components was not tested, developed, very underpowered, too many people had design input. The 'no choice' grey brushed stainless body finish in reality was to very few peoples taste, it did however have some unique selling features, and initially sold at a $5000 premium.

The car was export to USA only - what actually killed the project was an extreemly bad winter in '81 coupled with massively high interest rates in the US at that time which together stopped nearly all car sales - not just De Lorean's - they had no cash reserves by then , and were unable to raise any. In 1984 De Lorean himself was cleared of all the charges in the USA , the judge saying effectively he had been deliberately set up by the investigation bureau, what here we would call entrapment . At the end you could only feel sadness for the workforce , who did make enormous effort and were in no way to blame, and a remarkable amount was achieved in a very short time by major car makers standards.

Doubless it will go out again on a mainstream channel - it well worth watching , - fine job Karl as always.

[ensign14]

He was only cleared of the drug smuggling charges. He is still wanted for living a multimillionaire lifestyle funded by the British taxpayer.

[RTH]

Quite true, I couldn't really understand how there are still outstanding charges in UK - so he dare not visit here, but surely we have extradition treaty with USA - so why isn't he brought here by force to answer charges ? It was certainly the lifestyle, ultimately out of taxpayers money which caused all the bad feeling - rightly so IMO.

[ensign14]

I think they tried to extradite JDL. There is a surprising amount of suspicion between the British (used advisedly) and American legal systems; the former considers punitive damages to be unjust, the latter that damages for defamation is Communist.

I don't believe the problems were so much as one bad winter, more than the car was being sold at $22k. What else could you get for that money in 1981? Plus you needed a double garage to deal with the gull wing doors...

Shame as the car was IMO quite the looker. Wonder if it could have succeeded with a little less ambition.

[Kpy]

Originally posted by RTH
surely we have extradition treaty with USA - so why isn't he brought here by force to answer charges ? It was certainly the lifestyle, ultimately out of taxpayers money which caused all the bad feeling - rightly so IMO.

Written Answers to Questions
Wednesday 1 July 1992
ATTORNEY-GENERAL

De Lorean Cars
Mr. Shersby : To ask the Attorney-General what consideration he has given to the remarks of Lord Justice Murray at Belfast Crown Court last week in relation to Fred Bushell, the late Colin Chapman and John de Lorean ; what obstacles stand in the way of extraditing Mr. De Lorean from the United States of America to face charges in the United Kingdom ; and if he will make a statement.
The Attorney-General : My attention has been drawn to the remarks of Lord Justice Murray in the course of sentencing Federick Bushell at the conclusion of his trial. These followed a joint investigation by the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Serious Fraud Office. Frederick Bushell resided and was arrested in the United Kingdom. Although the Royal Ulster Constabulary holds a warrant for the arrest of Mr. De Lorean for conspiracy to defraud, I am advised that the laws of the United States provide a limitation period after which extradition is not normally possible. Although the period varies depending on the offence alleged, the period in this case expired before the Serious Fraud Office was created. It was the Serious Fraud Office investigation which produced the evidence justifying the obtaining of the warrant against Mr. De Lorean.

The above is from Hansard 1st July 1992. So the evidence was not forthcoming against De Lorean until it was too late to have him extradited. The charges remain on the file, and no doubt JZDL will not be paying any further visits to the UK.

There is more information on the subject in Mike Lawrence's excellent book - Colin Chapman, Wayward Genius.

[RTH]

How interesting, thanks, but it does seem a strange way to run a legal system.

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by ensign14
Shame as the car was IMO quite the looker.

You were kidding - right?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Vicuna

You were kidding - right?

No, once you got the stainless steel painted. In matt black it would have looked demonic. Then again, I loved the Skoda Estelle.

[jgm]

Something about this reminded me of an episode of The Simpsons where Krusty the Clown was having a spot of bother with the law and was fretting in his attorney's office about the possibility of going to prison. His attorney responds 'Don't worry Krusty. This is America. We don't send celebrities to prison. We just humiliate them.'

[masterhit]

I watched this programme and thought it was very good for its type, so good that I recorded one of the repeats.

I was pleasantly surprised that they interviewed the (ex) employees, which is a pretty rare thing in such television documentaries.

Little was made of the GPD/DeLorean/Chapman scandal, instead it focussed on the building of the car and the workforce employed, which in many ways is the real untold story.

Edit: DeLorean announced plans to build two more cars in 2000 as well as a wristwatch. This site has information and pictures.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Is there any date for the undoubted airing of this programme on BBC 2.

[RTH]

I wonder if this is just fantasy - or whether any real prototypes actually exist ?

[RTH]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Is there any date for the undoubted airing of this programme on BBC 2.

You may remember the 'Caterham Story' went out first on BBC4 then about 3 months later on BBC2 - maybe Karl would know dates ?

[Todd]

Originally posted by ensign14
He was only cleared of the drug smuggling charges. He is still wanted for living a multimillionaire lifestyle funded by the British taxpayer.

I always thought the UK tax money wound up paying for Lotus' F1 program.

Mind you I was only about 12 years old when the car came out, but I don't think it's appearance was a liability, at least not until it became apparent that the cars would be permanently covered in fingerprints. There was a dealer in my hometown, and I remember quite a bit of notice being taken when the first cars arrived. What didn't help the DMC-12 was that it delivered RX-7 performance for 911 SC money. The Corvette of the day was considered a joke too, if only because it was impractical, poorly made, and struggled to equal the performance of Corvettes from 26 years earlier. Still, IIRC, a Corvette was $18K instead of $22K, was much less slow, and had a ready market of people who had long aspired to Corvette ownership. On top of that, the DMC-12 was a long lead car with a short future. The 1984 911 Carrera and C4 Corvette were going to raise the performance bar to levels that the obese, underpowered(pathetic PRV V6), randomly chassised DMC-12 would have needed a complete re-engineering to approach. It is easy to believe that Colin Chapman was the reason that Delorean was doomed, because an awful lot of money and time were consumed by Lotus engineering for no return at all in terms of innovation or development. Just sticking a V6 in a gullwinged Esprit would have produced a lighter, more competitive car.

[Frank S]

Originally posted by ensign14
He was only cleared of the drug smuggling charges. He is still wanted for living a multimillionaire lifestyle funded by the British taxpayer.

I don't remember what it was, specifically, but he was convicted of something: I happened by as he was doing some of his "Public Service", painting an aged house on Golden Hill, San Diego.

There are good things to say about him, or at least about his early career. Not that I can remember those, either...

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Todd
It is easy to believe that Colin Chapman was the reason that Delorean was doomed, because an awful lot of money and time were consumed by Lotus engineering for no return at all in terms of innovation or development. Just sticking a V6 in a gullwinged Esprit would have produced a lighter, more competitive car.

I really cannot let this nonsense pass without comment. Lotus Engineering absolutely provided a return for a miserably small sum of money actually paid to them. The original DeLorean concept set before the Lotus engineers was unworkable. The fact that they and others were able to turn something resembling it into a running and at least partway convincing heap of crap AND complete the plant to build it from a greenfield site in no time from a standing start was itself a very, very considerable achievement. The fact that Chapman was so seduced by that piece of dollar-rich lowlife - complete with cosmetic chin extension, I ask you... - is bad enough, without permitting this slur upon the Lotus engineering team to pass unchallenged... Within the time available, within the parameters within which they were briefed to work, and with the funds (made) available to them, they worked wonders not to produce a car which was even worse!

DCN

[MCS]

Well said Doug.

I - admittedly, inadvertently - met Mr DeLorean once and listened to his (already underway) conversation about the future of "sportscars for the highway" and ...I think I'd better stop now, I could get into trouble.

Not exactly quite what I'd expected to hear.

MCS

[xkssFrankOpalka]

De Loreans wife left him to marry his attorney.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


- complete with cosmetic chin extension, I ask you...

DCN

MCS : I think we have all met people whose conversations with you were underway before you arrived !- But that's a brilliant piece of imagery

Frank : Clearly , his wife , a former fashion model , who featured quite a bit in the 1980's footage and was most attractive , and became tearful pleading his total innocence and that "every penny had gone in to the factory " - gave herself some financial advice !

[Arjan de Roos]

Arent the body moulds dumped in the ocean somewhere?

[Superliner II]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Arent the body moulds dumped in the ocean somewhere?

Yes they are acting as anchors for a fish farm off the west coast of Ireland last I heard.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


I really cannot let this nonsense pass without comment. Lotus Engineering absolutely provided a return for a miserably small sum of money actually paid to them. The original DeLorean concept set before the Lotus engineers was unworkable. The fact that they and others were able to turn something resembling it into a running and at least partway convincing heap of crap AND complete the plant to build it from a greenfield site in no time from a standing start was itself a very, very considerable achievement. The fact that Chapman was so seduced by that piece of dollar-rich lowlife - complete with cosmetic chin extension, I ask you... - is bad enough, without permitting this slur upon the Lotus engineering team to pass unchallenged... Within the time available, within the parameters within which they were briefed to work, and with the funds (made) available to them, they worked wonders not to produce a car which was even worse!

DCN

What you call nonsense was proven in court. Chapman escaped prosecution through death, but he couldn't protect his estate from fraud claims that were found to be legitimate. Is everything you write merely based on how you wish things could be?

http://www.grandprix...ef-chacol.html:

Chapman was beginning work on an active-suspension development program when he died of a heart attack in December 1982 at the age of only 54.

It was probably fortunate that he died when he did and thus avoided the scandal which was later revealed about Lotus's involvement with the Delorean car company. A judge later remarked that if Chapman had been alive he would have been sent to jail for 10 years for an "outrageous and massive fraud".

Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment - Delorean: Recovery of Public Funds - Read the report. One of the largest chunks recovered was based on Chapman's estate being held accountable for fraud.

[David McKinney]

I read DCN's comments as applying to Lotus Engineering
Yours seem to refer to Chapman

[Todd]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I read DCN's comments as applying to Lotus Engineering
Yours seem to refer to Chapman

Had his response been in the form of a clarification that the money never made it from Colin Chapman to Lotus Engineering, then I would aree with you. I said that Lotus engineering consumed large amounts of money and time while you would say that the courts only implicated Chapman. While I can't disprove that interpretation of events, I find it very credible that Lotus used Delorean money to fund R&D that had no DMC-12 applications, if you catch my active riding drift.

What was this miserably small sum that Lotus achieved so much for in the late '70s and early '80s? Over four and a half million pounds were recovered from Chapman's estate, so I can't help but to think it wasn't such a munificent sum in the first place, particularly by the standards of the day.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Todd


Had his response been in the form of a clarification that the money never made it from Colin Chapman to Lotus Engineering, then I would aree with you. I said that Lotus engineering consumed large amounts of money and time while you would say that the courts only implicated Chapman. While I can't disprove that interpretation of events, I find it very credible that Lotus used Delorean money to fund R&D that had no DMC-12 applications, if you catch my active riding drift.

What was this miserably small sum that Lotus achieved so much for in the late '70s and early '80s? Over four and a half million pounds were recovered from Chapman's estate, so I can't help but to think it wasn't such a munificent sum in the first place, particularly by the standards of the day.

Todd - I obviously read Doug's post differently to you. I see a clear message that only a small part of the moneys paid to "Lotus" made it past Colin and actually funded the work Lotus engineering did.

And Doug's point (as I read it) is that, given that small sum the team of Lotus engineers actually did provide direct value to deLorean.

In other words you have to follow the money and if it did not hit Group Lotus coffers and instead was misdirected by Colin or Bushell then that is personal fraud on their parts. This seems to be what the reports suggest (n'est pas?). It is only what wasn't skimmed off that should be looked at in the context of judging value for money and so the fact that 4.5m pounds was recovered from the estate of Chapman means that 4.5m was not recieved by Group Lotus and, at least from where I am sitting, adds weight to Doug's contention.

Incidentally I haven't seen any inference that Group Lotus was guilty of a separate misappropriation of deLorean funds to fund work on non deLorean projects. Separate in the sense of being an additional fraud/theft over and above that allegedly perpetrated by Chapman/Bushell/DeLorean. Am I missing something?

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Superliner II


Yes they are acting as anchors for a fish farm off the west coast of Ireland last I heard.

Why? I read things like this and wonder why these things are trashed? It is kind of like (at least to me) the reports of Citroen SM engine blocks, which - after production ended - the factory pushed out of a second floor of a warehouse to destroy.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


Todd - I obviously read Doug's post differently to you. I see a clear message that only a small part of the moneys paid to "Lotus" made it past Colin and actually funded the work Lotus engineering did.

And Doug's point (as I read it) is that, given that small sum the team of Lotus engineers actually did provide direct value to deLorean.

In other words you have to follow the money and if it did not hit Group Lotus coffers and instead was misdirected by Colin or Bushell then that is personal fraud on their parts. This seems to be what the reports suggest (n'est pas?). It is only what wasn't skimmed off that should be looked at in the context of judging value for money and so the fact that 4.5m pounds was recovered from the estate of Chapman means that 4.5m was not recieved by Group Lotus and, at least from where I am sitting, adds weight to Doug's contention.

Incidentally I haven't seen any inference that Group Lotus was guilty of a separate misappropriation of deLorean funds to fund work on non deLorean projects. Separate in the sense of being an additional fraud/theft over and above that allegedly perpetrated by Chapman/Bushell/DeLorean. Am I missing something?

DCN selected to quote my ealier post beginning with the statement, "It is easy to believe that Colin Chapman was the reason that Delorean was doomed, because an awful lot of money and time were consumed by Lotus engineering for no return at all in terms of innovation or development." I think that if he merely objected to my wording, he would have been capable of specifying that to be the case. Instead, his post clearly seems intent on blaming Delorean and portraying Chapman as a victim who was, "seduced by that piece of dollar-rich lowlife - complete with cosmetic chin extension."

[RTH]

The film devoted only 10 seconds as a post script at the end (because in fairness it was telling the story mainly through the eyes of the workforce - who incidently would not hear a bad word against the man ) to Lotus stating :-

Fred Bushell stood trial for fraud of £8.5M of DMC cash which had been transfered to a Swiss bank account, - was convicted and sentenced to 3 years in prison . It was suggested that had John De Lorean stood trial in UK for the outstanding charges he may have been sentenced, if convicted, to up to 10 years in prison.

[Doug Nye]

Todd - you wrote, and apparently meant "an awful lot of money and time were consumed by Lotus engineering for no return at all in terms of innovation or development". My dear chap - that is NONSENSE. As I pointed out...

You also wrote of my original response "I think that if he merely objected to my wording, he would have been capable of specifying that to be the case".

I believe I am indeed capable of so doing - perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear - I objected to your wording.

I do not dispute the other attitudes you express. Everybody has a right to talk --------.

DCN

[JohnS]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Arent the body moulds dumped in the ocean somewhere?

For the cars? Or his chin?

[rgsuspsa]

Colin Chapman & many of his close business associates utilized morally repugnant, and
quite probably illegal practices throughout their lives. No matter how words are parsed,
a thief is still a thief regardless of his/her other characteristics. When thieves get together,
the only issue of importance is how to conspire to perpetrate theft as a means to
accumulating monetary wealth, no matter the depth to which they must descend.

R. Sparks

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by rgsuspsa
Colin Chapman & many of his close business associates utilized morally repugnant, and
quite probably illegal practices throughout their lives. No matter how words are parsed,
a thief is still a thief regardless of his/her other characteristics. When thieves get together,
the only issue of importance is how to conspire to perpetrate theft as a means to
accumulating monetary wealth, no matter the depth to which they must descend.

R. Sparks

Blimey. Life is funny. And not as simple as many might have you think. For example

rgsuspsa recently posted a note on Jackie Stewart with which I thoroughly agreed. It caught much of what I think about that man. I quote: "Jackie Stewart is not simply a great driver, he is for me the standard by which all other drivers are measured. In a manner which few other drivers have demonstrated, Jackie personifies those qualities of humans attempting to conduct themselves with excellence and grace,no matter their profession. Potential for excellence as humans resides within most of us, Jackie transforms that potential to reality, an example to be emulated ." Good Stuff.

But then I read the above. After a wave of dismay passed over me at the vehemence of the language employed (sorry but "morally repugnant" is just unworthy hyperbole in this context) and the lack of balance in the underlying judgment, I stopped to wonder why, when I accept that there are varying degrees of truth in all that his detractors might throw at him, I am still so very grateful for what Colin Chapman and Team Lotus contributed to motor racing.

While Chapman may well have been as bent as a two pound note that (for me) isn't all that needs to be taken into account when weighing the man and I'd wager a fair few lives were richer (in one way or another) by virtue of his having been around.

So from me.

[rgsuspsa]

Having read your response to my comments on Colin Chapman, I believe I understand the
conflicts you voice regarding my postings on JYS and ACBC. From my perspective Chapman
may have incidentally benefited some persons during his lifetime, however any such benefits
were incidental to his conduct, the mark of an amoral individual. Several drivers lost their
lives due to cavalier decisions by ACBC regarding vehicle design and fabrication standards.
Such behavior is not the essence of racing, and JYS well knew it. Such is one difference
between JYS and ACBC, and one reason why I do not regard ACBC in a favorable light,
no matter his technial successes at the risks and consequences to others. JYS and ACBC were at
opposite ends of the human spectrum. JYS deserves respect for his conduct, ACBC does not.

Respectfully,

R. Sparks

[Barry Lake]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Arent the body moulds dumped in the ocean somewhere?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by JohnS


For the cars? Or his chin?

Neither.

For his wife, the model (or that's how I read it, anyway).






Actually, apart from the occasional overheating of posters, I am enjoying this thread.

I dearly would love to know more of what went on in the Delorean/Chapman affair than has been written in the books and articles I have read so far.

With luck, this thread might inspire some, who have the time, to unearth previously unknown (at least to me) relevant information.

[Mike Argetsinger]

Originally posted by rgsuspsa
Having read your response to my comments on Colin Chapman, I believe I understand the
conflicts you voice regarding my postings on JYS and ACBC. From my perspective Chapman
may have incidentally benefited some persons during his lifetime, however any such benefits
were incidental to his conduct, the mark of an amoral individual. Several drivers lost their
lives due to cavalier decisions by ACBC regarding vehicle design and fabrication standards.
Such behavior is not the essence of racing, and JYS well knew it. Such is one difference
between JYS and ACBC, and one reason why I do not regard ACBC in a favorable light,
no matter his technial successes at the risks and consequences to others. JYS and ACBC were at
opposite ends of the human spectrum. JYS deserves respect for his conduct, ACBC does not.

Respectfully,

R. Sparks

amoral individual? - - - harsh words indeed.

I must say I disagree strongly with your view of Colin Chapman. I knew the man and did business with him. I also observed him at close range in many circumstances. This does not give me the last word or necessarily the whole picture - but it does cause me to speak in his favor just in the interest of fairness and balance. I take him at face value. And really, the comment about driver's losing their lives as a result of his supposed 'cavalier decisions' is a bit much.

But the degree of your certitude makes me suspect that you have unique insight. Surely you wouldn't make these comments without first hand knowledge. Would you?

[Mike Argetsinger]

Whoa there Bertocchi!! I didn't call him amoral! Please read my post a bit more carefully. I expressed quite the opposite view. Please don't associate me with a view that I specifically took issue with.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Todd - you wrote, and apparently meant "an awful lot of money and time were consumed by Lotus engineering for no return at all in terms of innovation or development". My dear chap - that is NONSENSE. As I pointed out...

You also wrote of my original response "I think that if he merely objected to my wording, he would have been capable of specifying that to be the case".

I believe I am indeed capable of so doing - perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear - I objected to your wording.

I do not dispute the other attitudes you express. Everybody has a right to talk --------.

DCN

I watched a documentary on the Delorean DMC-12 story today on Trio. They actually had cameras in project meetings at Lotus Engineering and at Delorean. Having seen the Lotus representatives pulling a dog ate my homework attitude over promised tooling that was still an idea to be discussed in the abstract after their own stated deliverable date, it seems even less likely that Lotus Engineering wasn't culpable in the debacle. Following the meeting, the Delorean people were looking to farm out their engineering requirements to other contractors, and this was after the factory was in place and employees were hired to use non-existent tooling. This isn't to say that Lotus was their only problem. The new hires, many of whom were from families that hadn't been gainfully employed in generations, were quickly recruited by unions and celebrated their organized status by rejecting the offered 6.98% annual cost of living adjustment. I guess they liked being on the dole. Meanwhile, Renault thought that Delorean shouldn't merely cut their losses on their over capacity for the PRV6, they figured they could rape the start up company three ways from Sunday. The idea that all these people were taken in by John Z. Delorean is a laugh.

[Barry Lake]

Some six months ago, this thread rekindled my curiosity about Colin Chapman's involvement in the DeLorean project - financially, that is.

I happened upon four DeLorean books at very cheap prices from one vendor, so bought them, and more recently also bought "The DeLorean Tapes".

Unfortunately, except for the last named, the books already have become buried and inaccesible.

There is very little about Bushell and Chapman in any of them, other than suggestions that they were involved in shady dealings through the GPD company. It has been written that DeLorean used this company (apparently Chapman's, operated by Bushell, if I remember correctly) to launder large sums of money. There is no doubt that DeLorean took many millions for his own use and the suggestion is that considerable sums also found their way to Chapman.

One very interesting book is "Hard Driving: My Years with John DeLorean" by William Haddad, who was his PR man and a staunch supporter until quite near the end. It is telling that the person who "blew the whistle" on DeLorean to the British government was his formerly long-time loyal secretary, when she discovered that he had set things up so that he would become wealthy selling DeLorean shares once the company went public (which it was about to do). The lady flew to England at her own expense, in her holidays, only to find they didn't want to know about her revelations. Eventually they did stop the whole show before it went public and that was the end of the game for John Z.

Haddad wrote that he was shocked to discover, on researching company documents, that DeLorean had intended to defraud his own company from the very beginning.

Even apart from the money that simply disappeared, DeLorean paid himself $US17.6 million in salaries - to manage a company that never made a dime. At the time, this was the equivalent of the highest paid executives in the US auto industry.

The introduction to "The DeLorean Tapes" was written by Ivan Fallon, Deputy Editor of The Sunday Times and co-author of "Dream Maker: The Rise and Fall of John Z DeLorean".

In the introduction, Fallon writes, of DeLorean, "...After a number of false starts, including his first arrest when he was 23 for a gauche and classic 'Yellow Pages scam' (selling ads in trade directories and invoicing people for orders they have not placed), he ended up in the auto industry, as most St Lawrence graduates eventually did..."

Would you buy a new car from this man?

The transcript of the tapes also clearly show that, despite the jury's acquital of DeLorean, there is no doubt he wanted to do a major drug deal to get tens of millions of US dollars to re-start the DeLorean car project after the British government had pulled the pin.

Also from Fallon's introduction to "The DeLorean Tapes":

"Later, when the receiver and creditors took control of DeLorean's corporations in both Belfast and New York, they were able to get hold of documents and bank transfer notes which recorded the movement of money in great detail. A raid on his house in New Jersey yielded a whole truckload of documents which shed further light on events. So did the evidence of a lawyer in Geneva used by the DeLorean companies and thus now employed by the creditors. They show beyond reasonable doubt that, as the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee reported in July 1984, the money was 'misappropriated'. They further show that John DeLorean very carefully designed and carried through a scheme to transfer at least $9 million (the rest is still missing, and the late Colin Chapman may have had it) of that money to his own personal interests within weeks of signing the deal with the British government. This says a great deal about his mentality. He did not do it only when things were getting rough - he did it when he had everything going for him, at the very height of his success."

Another example of this sort of mentality - and I don't have the book to re-check the figures, but I remember one (or more) of them stating that when an out-building at the factory was accidentally fire-bombed during a riot ("accidentally" because, apparently, the locals spared the DeLorean factory during these riots because of the work provided and promised for them). The cost of rebuilding it, from memory was 800,000 pounds, but DeLorean claimed - and received - several millions from the British government.

The whole affair was a very dodgy deal from beginning to end.

[Todd]

Barry,

The secretary you're describing was Marian Gibson. Here is Mike Knepper, the actual DeLorean PR director's take on it, from his article in the June 1993 issue of Car and Driver:

It was Marian (Gibson) who got the British Prime Minister directly involved in our affairs. She got the hysterical tabloids of Fleet Street into a feeding frenzy, with De Lorean the foodstuff. She got me interviewed by Scotland Yard.

Gibson had been De Lorean's executive secretary, then office manager. And then she fell from grace, for reasons I've forgotten, but fall she did, all the way down to the ignominy of being the public-relations director's secretary. Unbeknownst to us, Marian was working up a cause. She had decided De Lorean was ripping off the British government by diverting its subsidies to pursuits that had little to do with building cars--in particular, she had her eyes on the "gold-plated faucets" in the home of the general manager of the Dunmurry factory.

As I recall, one Friday evening she scooped up a number of files she considered incriminating and flew from New York to London. Seems to me a New York-based reporter for a British tabloid was involved, but I've forgotten just how. Anyway, she rang up a member of Parliament known to be critical of the government's subsidizing the De Lorean project and proceeded to blow her whistle. There wasn't much substance to her scenario, but there was enough smoke to get this particular MP excited. He in turn got a number of his colleagues in Parliament excited, the tabloids picked up the scent of scandal, and the game was truly afoot.

So another way of looking at your lilly white whistle blower is that she was a spurned and demoted employee with revenge and profit from UK tabloids on her mind.

From the same article:

The furor intensified when British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher ordered Scotland Yard's special frauds division to get cracking. Long story short: no fraud. That didn't mean the government's money was being parsimoniously handled. It meant no fraud. The furor subsided.

Ultimately, the investigation failed to reveal any malfeasance, nor even a single gold-plated faucet, and we went back to the business of building cars. Marian Gibson disappeared, to turn up ten years later via John Truscott at Expo '92(De Lorean Owners Association meeting). He thinks she's "still a waitress in New York."

[Eric McLoughlin]

I can see the investigation team interviewing the Belfast employees -

"Have any of you ever seen any gold plated faucetts in the homes of the company directors?"

"No, no faucetts anywhere we've been" - and then, under their breaths "What the f..k's a faucett?"

Maybe people weren't always asking the right questions.

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Todd
Barry,

The secretary you're describing was Marian Gibson. Here is Mike Knepper, the actual DeLorean PR director's take on it, from his article in the June 1993 issue of Car and Driver:

Thank heavens for transparent plastic boxes! The Haddad book was in one such and I was able to spot it and retrieve it by only lifting a few hundred kg.

Haddad wrote, "When John started his own car company, the DeLorean Motor Company, I joined him as vice president for planning and communications."

Haddad agrees that Marian was, "...summarily demoted, for reasons that were not clear, to office manager, then assigned to my office. John told my deputy, Mike Knepper, to keep Marian for thirty days and then to fire her."

So far, I have spotted no other reference to Knepper in the book, which unfortunately does not have an index.

But Haddad's writing seems to suggest that John had discovered that Marian, "...a matronly blonde who had been hired by John for $30,000 a year, as much for her accent and her contacts among Arab investors as for her skills," already had been learning more about his business affairs than he would have liked.

Knepper seems to have been in a minority in trying to defend DeLorean as late as 1993, by which time, it seems, few doubted he was dishonest - except for those members of the public still believing the legend he had built up about himself during and after his spell at General Motors.

[lanciaman]

The NY ad agency I was with when DeLorean was cranking up was interested in pitching the account, as we'd had considerable auto experience. Friends of mine closer to the DeLorean situation warned me away from this, saying it would come to no good. Mind you, this was early in the game, but DeLorean already was quacking like a duck. As this sorry story went its way, I don't think anyone was surprised at the outcome, though the plot twists took some unexpected turns.

We would like to have seen DeLorean be successful. But after I drove a friend's DL, I figuered we had another Bricklin.

[harryglorydays]

In November of 1981, I was fortunate (I thought!) to get a job as the East Coast Tech Rep for DeLorean. We worked out of the Bridgewater, NJ, depot and went throughout the Mid-Atlantic states fixing (or trying to) any problems that were out of the scope of the local dealers.

Bridgewater was a very large operation with several hundred employees. The cars would come up from Baltimore, where they landed, and would go through a very comprehensive PDI, including mechanical, body and roadtesting. The mechanical portion was very straighforward, but the body shop was packed. Many of the cars would get dings or have mis-aligned panels. The doors were a bitch to get properly aligned. Plus, the temperature would affect the gas struts to the point where doors that opened fine in the warm shop wouldn't open without effort outside in the cold.

Another thing about the doors - they were very dangerous to work on the electricals inside the door skins. There were stamped-out access areas to reach wiring and components, but the edges of the stainless steel were razor sharp. We had several employees every day go to the doctor with, in some cases, very serious cuts on their hands and arms.

Someone earlier mentioned that the cold weather hurt sales. This is true. If you remember, the winter of 81-82 was one of the coldest on record in the Northeast. It was so cold that we started encountering a problem that no-one could solve. The throttle cable went from the footwell along the trans tunnel and back to the engine. Condensation would accumulate inside the cable housing and freeze as the car was moving along the road. This would effectively "lock" the accelerator pedal. Several drivers, in an attempt to stop the car, put the clutch in and blew the engine!

We tried everything we could think of to cure this, including injecting anti-freeze into the cable, but nothing we did seemed to completely cure the problem. Luckily, the weather warmed up slightly and the problem went away.

I remember the last few days vividly, before the Bank of America took over. all of us had company cars and we were told to "get as far away as possible" so they wouldn't reposess the cars. I went over and hid my car at the motel I was staying at. One of the tec reps went as far as Baltimore! Finally, they called and said to come back and turn in the cars. The BofA people were standing in the front lobby with guns on their hips! They were in no mood to fool around.

And that was the end of a very exciting, but short adventure. I actually was very impressed with the car. Yes, it wasn't particularly fast, but it was certainly adequate. It was fun to drive, didn't have any bad habits and most certainly drew a crowd. It also was fantastic in the snow, believe it or not!

Any other ex-DMC people out there?

[Barry Lake]

My experience with the DeLorean was much more brief than that. I was in San Francisco, en route to drive in the Jeepers Jamboree, July 1981. The first shipment(s?) of De Lorean cars had just arrived. There were four of us from Australia, one being the Jeep Australia PR man, who was keenest to see one. He looked up the classified ads in the newspaper, made some phone calls, could find only one dealer who still had one.

It was on the way to San Jose (isn't there a song about that?), probably somewhere near Cupertino, because we dropped in there on the same trip (but that's another story). We hired a Mercury Cougar to drive down there.

The "dealer" operated out of a little cubicle office perched on a timber wharf jutting into the ocean. I think there was a boat club of some kind adjacent. He had his sporty cars parked in the open, on the wharf, and just one DeLorean. I think he'd bought it on spec and had priced it above sticker price, which they were bringing at that time.

He had no brochures, intimated he wouldn't give us one even if he had them, since we weren't planning to buy one and it wasn't his job to promote them, but he did allow us each to have a sit in the driver's seat. It wasn't too bad looking, inside and out. Quality was a worry, but not glaringly bad. He claimed it handled the bends on the mountain road to his home "like a Ferrari", but had no guts (I forget his American expression for that).

On our way back to San Francisco we were passing a big dealership with a huge showroom and a double-deck car-carrying semi-trailer rolled up outside it, with six or seven DeLoreans on board. If we'd waited a few hours, we could have seen one locally. But we were now out of time and had to get back. It was a nice drive, anyway, and we had a good time in Cupertino.

[ensign14]

I drove a DeLorean once, handled a bit funny over 87mph.

[Séamas M.]

I worked for the company that supplied the seats and interior trim panels for the DMC 12 (CP Trim Ltd) and had friends who worked for the DeLorean Motor Company. Lotus Engineering wasn't held in high esteem at Dunmurry. I was told a story by a production engineer about an issue with the parking brake lever on the rear calipers fouling the wheelrim on pre-production cars and the simple change necessary to cure the problem being delayed to ensure compatibility with the Lotus that used the same components. Probably not verifiable after this length of time though!

I did go for a couple of job interviews at Dunmurry. At the first I was interviewed by a rather large American gentleman. After a tour of the new factory building which was empty apart from a couple of Lotus Esprits that were being dismantled and reassembled for training purposes we went through the usual interview process. When that ended he asked if I had any questions and the conversation moved on to the design of the car. My first point was that the engine was in the wrong place, that it should be in the middle like on the Lotus. My next question was about the value of the gullwing doors, were they just a gimmick? He answered the first point by stating that this was not a sports car, that it would be sold mainly to "Beverly Hills housewives" who would think it was a sports car. The second question was answered in two parts. The first was to state that the doors required less width to open than a conventionally hinged door. Fair enough if your garage wasn't high you might ding the door on its ceiling but you could open the doors inside a narrow space. The second part of the answer compared the DeLorean to the Lotus and to the best of my memory went like this.

"OK, see that Lotus, it's a nice car, it is a sports car and it's low. I can't easily get into it but I can get in and out of the DMC 12. Now you (and I was still in my trim late 20's form then!) can probably get into that Lotus. On the other hand, I can afford it, and you can't ."

I shut up about gullwing doors after that.

[harryglorydays]

Another interesting tidbit on the gullwing doors. I managed the DeLorean exhibit at the New York Auto Show and one of the most common questions (after "how do you clean it" - "with some Windex and a scrub pad") was "how can you get out in tight parking places?"

In actuality, the swing of the doors only came out about a foot from the side of the car, so getting in and out in tight places was actually better in the DeLorean than in a normal car.

Another benefit of the overhead doors was that they offered some protection from rain. However, and I found this out the hard way, if there was any snow on top of the door, you had to brush it off before entering lest the entire amount would be dumped right in the center of the driver's seat!

[Barry Lake]

Just where Colin Chapman's death fitted into the DeLorean saga has always intrigued me.

With the help of all the recently purchased DeLorean books, I have been able to put this into perspective.

John Z DeLorean was arrested 19 October 1982, while taking possession of a large amount of cocaine, the culmination of a deal that had begun in June of that year. Within a couple of days, DeLorean was front page news around the world, including on The Times.

Within a couple of weeks DeLorean Motor Company filed for bankruptcy.

According to 'DeLorean Stainless Steel Illusion' by John Lamm and Mike Knepper, in the USA the IRS began investigations into where all the DeLorean money had gone - particularly that not readily accounted for - in 'December 1982'.

Colin Chapman died of a heart attack, aged 54, 16 December 1982.

A week later Sol Shenk's Consolidated International company decided not to exercise an option to buy the Dunmurry DeLorean factory. He had hopes of resurrecting the car and the company - but manufacturing in much smaller numbers. Shenk had already bought several hundred DeLorean cars at $12,500 when the sticker price was almost double that.

A day after that, a skeleton staff assembled the last of 6000 (or 7000, depending which source is consulted) DeLorean cars to be built.

[dolomite]

Interesting vehicle on ebay here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1&rd=1&tc=photo

[kos]

Originally posted by ensign14
I drove a DeLorean once, handled a bit funny over 87mph.

What do you mean by that? Some sparks and singularities in space-time continuum?;)