40 replies to this topic

[Sakae]

I am sorry, but after waiting for someone to take a lead on this story, no one had yet, and I do not want this to remain unnoticed. It's going to be therefore probably a short-lived thread, but I couldn't hold back anymore.

Dr. Jonathan Palmer was, and remains one of my most favourite (former) commentators on F1 of all times. I know he had his problems in England, but maybe exactly for the same reasons I was comfortable with him. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation used to hire him for a while, when he was available, and those were moment I did really relax and enjoyed the race. The guy has no agenda of his own, he is very knowledgeable, and his were most balanced comments from them all who dared to appear on my TV screen.

I didn't know about troubles he had in Portugal, and therefore I shall refrain myself from commenting on that, but I am genuinely sorry about what I am hearing, feeling sad what happened to the family of a man who had lost life, and I wish to them, and to Jonathan well.

[masterhit]

I admire Johnathan Palmer hugely, but having been the victim of a road accident where I nearly got killed, spent three days unconscious, was thrown thirty feet in the air and had to spend a year re-learning how to walk due to an ear imbalance as well as being left permanently deaf in my left ear, I have strong feelings on dangerous driving on the roads, so will say no more apart from what a sad story and how it is considered a 'minor' story (by news standards) bothers me.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Its his fault, no point in appealing, especially when he GOT AWAY WITH IT.


Anyone want to organise an Atlas meet in Portugal? Lets find out first what crimes will keep our sentences under one year.

[bukusuma]

...I know he had his problems in England...

What was (is?) his problems in England?

Bram

[Jhope]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Its his fault, no point in appealing, especially when he GOT AWAY WITH IT.


Anyone want to organise an Atlas meet in Portugal? Lets find out first what crimes will keep our sentences under one year.

Stealing fish and destrying the Porto caves.


Wait, that might get you life imprisonment.

[Captain Cranckcase]

Originally posted by bukusuma


What was (is?) his problems in England?

Bram

Some people didn't like his commentary, thought he was too "technical", a lot of people would rather here gossip and stuff (martin brundle) than about the actual race cars.

[BuzzingHornet]

In the commentary booth and on the track, Brundle could run rings round Palmer...

About the topic if this title though I feel that its just a tragic story, yeah Palmer was at fault and admits as much.

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Its his fault, no point in appealing, especially when he GOT AWAY WITH IT.


Anyone want to organise an Atlas meet in Portugal? Lets find out first what crimes will keep our sentences under one year.

Only works for the rich I reckon. More money gets you better 'justice'...

[fingers]

Palmer was wrong footed by a car trying to cut a corner whilst driving too fast, he is totally responsible for not moving onto the correct side of the road but the other car was well within his powers to avoid wrong footing Palmer by driving safer himself. It takes two to tango as they say accidents are usually caused by two errors not one. Many accident situation are avoided everyday when people make small mistake and quickly correct them but when there is two errors that's lethal. Its just a sad circumstance I understand how it can happen and have sympathy with Palmer, he is a qualified Doctor and an F1 driver that is no mean feat and is obviously a very sensible man he just reacted wrongly when placed in a quick thinking situation.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by Captain Cranckcase


Some people didn't like his commentary, thought he was too "technical", a lot of people would rather here gossip and stuff (martin brundle) than about the actual race cars.

Exactly right.

Brundle is knowledgeable as well, but as a source or feed of "Racing knowledge 101" explained to a novice racing fan, not too many people can hold a candle to JP. JP knew what needed to be explained, he wasn’t too assuming, nor arrogant, and by a few simple words could actually explain reasonably complex issues (from physics point of view). Unfortunately even simplest of explanations was too complex for an average Englishman. ( ).

Brundle meanwhile is suffering from conflict of interest, to be taken seriously. (Having the rest of ITV crowd around him dosen't help either, does it)?

[Captain Cranckcase]

I used to like Brundle when he first started but in the last few years he has started to get on my nerves, he tries to come up with too many catchphrases.

[917k]

Originally posted by MiPe
I am sorry, but after waiting for someone to take a lead on this story, no one had yet, and I do not want this to remain unnoticed. It's going to be therefore probably a short-lived thread, but I couldn't hold back anymore.

Dr. Jonathan Palmer was, and remains one of my most favourite (former) commentators on F1 of all times. I know he had his problems in England, but maybe exactly for the same reasons I was comfortable with him. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation used to hire him for a while, when he was available, and those were moment I did really relax and enjoyed the race. The guy has no agenda of his own, he is very knowledgeable, and his were most balanced comments from them all who dared to appear on my TV screen.

I didn't know about troubles he had in Portugal, and therefore I shall refrain myself from commenting on that, but I am genuinely sorry about what I am hearing, feeling sad what happened to the family of a man who had lost life, and I wish to them, and to Jonathan well.

My feelings exactly JP did have a way of making even a mundane race interesting.It was obvious,by his commemntary,he was a huge fan of the sport.......as well as a bonifide participant.

[AF Prodrive]

Dear oh dear oh dear. :

[Sakae]

Originally posted by AF Prodrive
Dear oh dear oh dear. :

What's the problem?

[AF Prodrive]

Originally posted by MiPe
What's the problem?

No problem.

"Dear oh dear oh dear" was Palmer's favorite catch-phrase whilst broadcasting, so I thought it'd be ironically fitting here, although less so now that I've had to explain it.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by AF Prodrive

No problem.

"Dear oh dear oh dear" was Palmer's favorite catch-phrase whilst broadcasting, so I thought it'd be ironically fitting here, although less so now that I've had to explain it.

I didn't connect, but now when you mentioning it,...

[ensign14]

You could however have a sweepstake on when Dr JP would first mention tear-off visors.

[kiwiscot]

But God, wasn't he dull? It was bad enough that he'd spend 10 minutes droning on about tear off strips or some such, but what made it worse was that Murray would interrupt with some momentous news such as "OH...OH MY WORD...HILL AND SCHUMACHER HAVE BOTH STOPPED AND ARE HITTING EACH OTHER WITH WET HADDOCK...ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN FORMULA ONE...ETC", and then the good doctor would continue "anyway murray I must return to what I was saying about tear off strips because you interrupted me there and I wouldn't want the viewers to miss the full extent of the detailed information I am able to impart to them on this fascinating subject so anyway I remember once in the 1986 Welsh Grand Prix when Nigel Mansell used an unusually large number of strips on his visor which had the effect of subtly altering the airflow over the helmet of course this effect was reduced over the course of the race as he discarded used strips and so.......(ad infinitum)"

Maybe if J Palmer (dry fact dull man) and J Allen (no substance highly excited man) had a lovechild, it would be a great commentator.

[masterhit]

Since this has turned into the usual "Forget the subject, do we like him or not?" thing...

Here is a link to his brilliant 'weekly classes' on the various parts of the car; wings, the fuel cell, power to weight ratio, tyres, the gearbox, suspension, the engine and so on:

Free Downloads of his Racing School Classes on BBC

[Sakae]

Not all-brilliant minds are good teachers, and those who are should be cherished forever. Recalling a Chinese proverb: "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. You teach him how to fish, and you feed him for life". Despite all jokes about him, I am still fond of Jonathan, because I had good time just to listen.

[AD]

Originally posted by masterhit
Since this has turned into the usual "Forget the subject, do we like him or not?" thing...
...[/URL]

[howardt]

Originally posted by kiwiscot
.....
Murray would interrupt with some momentous news such as "OH...OH MY WORD...HILL AND SCHUMACHER HAVE BOTH STOPPED AND ARE HITTING EACH OTHER WITH WET HADDOCK...ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN FORMULA ONE...ETC", and then the good doctor would continue "anyway murray I must return to what I was saying about tear off strips because you interrupted me there and I wouldn't want the viewers to miss the full extent of the detailed information I am able to impart to them on this fascinating subject so anyway I remember once in the 1986 Welsh Grand Prix when Nigel Mansell used an unusually large number of strips on his visor which had the effect of subtly altering the airflow over the helmet of course this effect was reduced over the course of the race as he discarded used strips and so.......(ad infinitum)"

Thanks kiwiscot, that's EXACTLY how I remeber the Murray & JP commentary team !

[Taxi]

I'm Portuguese.

what hapaned to J.Palmer?
justice in Portugal is as slow as Alex Young I admit, but is getting bettet along with this governement. Lots of rich and powerfull guys are going to prison after comiting crimes.
it's about time.

Something about te roads: not as dangerous as many people say

[Antti]

Hi everybody !

Don't post here much, but this is something I have to comment on. And we all should think about this a little. There was a story of JPM driving fast in traffic some time ago. There was a story of driving with MS to some GP by an unnamed journalist a couple of years ago. There was absolutely no criticism of these guys on this forum. More of admiration how they are superior human beings and react so fast etc... as person who has lost friends because of reckless driving... Well, no need to say more.

Cheers

Antti

[howardt]

Originally posted by Taxi
I'm Portuguese.

what hapaned to J.Palmer?

Taxi, apparently in '96 he was test-driving a right-hand drive car, and when he picked up the car he set off on the left-side of the road, as if in England. He saw a car coming the other way, which was also on the left side of the road, as it was clipping a corner. But the car coming the other way moved back into the right lane, and they collided head-on. The other driver died, and Palmer got broken bones. Palmer has been convicted of some form of dangerous/careless driving offence, but his sentence has been waived.

http://www.atlasf1.c...p/id/5109/.html

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Antti
Hi everybody !

Don't post here much, but this is something I have to comment on. And we all should think about this a little. There was a story of JPM driving fast in traffic some time ago. There was a story of driving with MS to some GP by an unnamed journalist a couple of years ago. There was absolutely no criticism of these guys on this forum. More of admiration how they are superior human beings and react so fast etc... as person who has lost friends because of reckless driving... Well, no need to say more.

Cheers

Antti

Hello Antti.

You make a fair point but equally, fast driving is not necessarily reckless driving; I have seen plenty of reckless driving at low speeds.

And whilst Fingers may be right about "two to tango" in regard to accidents, I am personally rather underwhelmed having had my pride and joy severely damaged inb an accident on Saturday last.

Whilst negotiating a mini roundabout in second gear at about 15 mph, I was driven into by someone who in her own words didn't see me. It was six p.m. a beautiful sunny evening, my car is red with blue and yellow stripes.

I wonder what she was looking at?

PdeRL

[effone2k]

Originally posted by Antti
Hi everybody !

Don't post here much, but this is something I have to comment on. And we all should think about this a little. There was a story of JPM driving fast in traffic some time ago. There was a story of driving with MS to some GP by an unnamed journalist a couple of years ago. There was absolutely no criticism of these guys on this forum. More of admiration how they are superior human beings and react so fast etc... as person who has lost friends because of reckless driving... Well, no need to say more.

Cheers

Antti

Didn't MS have an incident a few years ago and part of his sentence was lecturing on safe driving?

[Sakae]

Originally posted by VAR1016


Hello Antti.

You make a fair point but equally, fast driving is not necessarily reckless driving; I have seen plenty of reckless driving at low speeds.

And whilst Fingers may be right about "two to tango" in regard to accidents, I am personally rather underwhelmed having had my pride and joy severely damaged inb an accident on Saturday last.

Whilst negotiating a mini roundabout in second gear at about 15 mph, I was driven into by someone who in her own words didn't see me. It was six p.m. a beautiful sunny evening, my car is red with blue and yellow stripes.

I wonder what she was looking at?

PdeRL

Fast driving over set speed limits is probably reckless driving. Especially if in populated areas, and around schools, because nevermind how briliant driver with superior reactions you are, in higher speeds it takes longer distance to bring vehicle to be halted motionless. Increased risk of hitting jaywalking pedestrian or a kid running to catch a play-ball is unmeasurable.

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by MiPe


Fast driving over set speed limits is probably reckless driving. Especially if in populated areas, and around schools, because nevermind how briliant driver with superior reactions you are, in higher speeds it takes longer distance to bring vehicle to be halted motionless. Increased risk of hitting jaywalking pedestrian or a kid running to catch a play-ball is unmeasurable.

No-one with any sense would condone driving fast in suburban streets, past schools etc., etc., such driving could be considered reckless. Furthermore one can be reckless even within the speed limits.

However speed limits are blunt instruments.

Also the jaywalking pedestrian must take his share of responsibility.

In general people must be responsible for the consequences of their actions; there seems to be a disturbing trend that anything unfortunate that happens to an individual is someone else's fault.

There has been a number of well documented examples of this sort of thing in the American courts (hot coffee at McDonald's, poodle in microwave etc.).

PdeRL

[ensign14]

Originally posted by VAR1016
There has been a number of well documented examples of this sort of thing in the American courts (hot coffee at McDonald's, poodle in microwave etc.).

These are bad choices...the coffee thing was a woman sitting in a stationary car that got bumped in a Ronnie Mac car park (she was not driving as the story has it) and a MacDonalds' executive was forced to admit that they deliberately served coffee at temperatures that can give 2nd degree burns within seconds, rather than (as they had been advised) slightly cooler...

The microwave poodle goes way, way back to the days of ovens and seems to be an urban myth.

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by ensign14
These are bad choices...the coffee thing was a woman sitting in a stationary car that got bumped in a Ronnie Mac car park (she was not driving as the story has it) and a MacDonalds' executive was forced to admit that they deliberately served coffee at temperatures that can give 2nd degree burns within seconds, rather than (as they had been advised) slightly cooler...

The microwave poodle goes way, way back to the days of ovens and seems to be an urban myth.

I included those only as indicative examples; I am certain that there have been many more, and of course I stand by the principle of individual responsibility

PdeRL

[FuscaBala]

Isn't fate ironic?
The 'other guy' that was killed in the accident was a norwegian pro-rally driver Rein Slattum driving a Ford Sierra.

JP was driving a Honda Prelude 2.2 VTI back in 1996 and tried to overtake another car, on a blind curve, and crashed the Sierra wich fell through a hill afterwards.
The testimony (the overtaken car driver) said that both drivers were on high speed.
According to the portuguese laws, the crime has 1-5 years of reclusion, but PAlmer got 7 months - bcs he was a respectable person - wich means anisty (under 1 year).

A F1 driver carshing a Rally driver on the streets.

[holiday]

Originally posted by FuscaBala
Isn't fate ironic?
The 'other guy' that was killed in the accident was a norwegian pro-rally driver Rein Slattum driving a Ford Sierra.

Are you serious? You mean, with Palmer and Slattum two professionals crashed in that accident?!?!

I must say that I am a bit astounded by Palmer's reaction anyway. It doesn't need a good racing driver to foretell that the other one will move over to the regular side the moment he grasps the dangerous situation.

Just make the daily check as pedestrian in any city: evading other people by trying to gey by on the 'wrong' side (that is left on the continent) will almost always created at least a little instant of confusion. I tried it for a while out of some unorthodox impulse not to comply with any unwritten rule out there. Usually didn't help me to get sooner to my destination.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by VAR1016


I included those only as indicative examples; I am certain that there have been many more, and of course I stand by the principle of individual responsibility

PdeRL

We studies a case where a guy one against a lawnmower company because he stuck his hand under the thing and there wasn't a sign on top saying don't stick your hands under there. But we live in Amercia where lawyers control every aspect of life and laws are made simpy to enrich themselves at the expense of the public.

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by tifosi


We studies a case where a guy one against a lawnmower company because he stuck his hand under the thing and there wasn't a sign on top saying don't stick your hands under there. But we live in Amercia where lawyers control every aspect of life and laws are made simpy to enrich themselves at the expense of the public.

Thank you: sense prevails! Hurrah!

Of course it's no "accident" that so many Senators and Congressmen are lawyers. (Ooops! Should I have written "congress-persons???)

PdeRL

[Captain Cranckcase]

Originally posted by effone2k


Didn't MS have an incident a few years ago and part of his sentence was lecturing on safe driving?

I think you'll find that was for hitting J. Villeneuve, but we won't go there.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by holiday


Are you serious? You mean, with Palmer and Slattum two professionals crashed in that accident?!?!

I must say that I am a bit astounded by Palmer's reaction anyway. It doesn't need a good racing driver to foretell that the other one will move over to the regular side the moment he grasps the dangerous situation.

Just make the daily check as pedestrian in any city: evading other people by trying to gey by on the 'wrong' side (that is left on the continent) will almost always created at least a little instant of confusion. I tried it for a while out of some unorthodox impulse not to comply with any unwritten rule out there. Usually didn't help me to get sooner to my destination.

Did you see a movie Italian heist (or something – a robbery of a bank)? Bunch of Englishmen decided to get some cash, so they drive in cars from England to Italy, rob the bank, and so on…

I do recall as a leader of that gang of Mini' couching the team: "...and remember that in Italy they drive on wrong side of the road..."

[Captain Cranckcase]

The movie is called The Italian Job and stars Michael Caine, they made a remake last year or maybe the year before, apparently it sucks.

[holiday]

Originally posted by MiPe
Did you see a movie Italian heist (or something – a robbery of a bank)? Bunch of Englishmen decided to get some cash, so they drive in cars from England to Italy, rob the bank, and so on…

Sounds very much like the Italian Blowjob.

Nice movie.

[ensign14]

We're going slightly off thread here, but one of the stunt drivers on "The Italian Job" was Val Musetti, who had a decent career culminating in British F1 and an F3000 one-off in the 70s and 80s.

[masterhit]

Originally posted by ensign14
We're going slightly off thread here, but one of the stunt drivers on "The Italian Job" was Val Musetti, who had a decent career culminating in British F1 and an F3000 one-off in the 70s and 80s.

Wow, obscure fact. Remy Julienne springs to mind as the stunt co-ordinator. One tends to neglect the people working for the leader.