23 replies to this topic

[desmo]

2001 AsiaTech Images

Thanks, Andrew!

[Chevy II Nova]

Kick arse!

What happened to the assets of Asiatech? Did anyone ever buy their crap?

[marion5drsn]

Well at least they used the right block angle at 72 degrees. but the roller bearings are questionable aren't they? The crank looks flimsey and the cylinder head looks tall.

M.L. Anderson

[desmo]

I wondered about the caged rollers as well. I wasn't sure if those were for the big ends or the mains- I assume the rod big end bearing. Odd choice, I thought plain bearings were universal there in F1.

[Edit] Upon further inspection, it appears the roller bearings (with split cages!) are for the mains. Strange. Note also the bolt on counterweights for the crank- compare these with the Ferrari crank with more material near the outer radius here and plug-type counterweights. Also note the April Fool's day ('02) date on the DelWest Ti intake valves!

[Chevy II Nova]

Wouldn't the roller speed be absolutely deadly on those things? I thought that was always the main reason they weren't used.

The crank looks normal to me... what exactly did you mean by flimsy marion5?

[desmo]

Imagine the rpm those rollers would need to spin at near redline!

[Chevy II Nova]

Indeed indeed! Curious what they would be made of...

[marion5drsn]

Flimsy; Lacking in physical strength or substance. It just doesn't look strong in relation to the overall length. Undersize mains and rod bearings altho the rod itself looks strong.
Also notice the serrations on the split between the rod cap and the main part of the rod.

Also notice what appears to be regular bearing inserts for the rod bearings. M. L. Anderson

[McGuire]

The cam gears look like jewelry.

[desmo]

Crank journal diameters are constrained by bearing surface speeds. Oil cavitation ,and hence catastrophic failure as the oil film broke down, would result- all else being equal- if the journal diameters were increased.

[Greg Locock]

Yet the camshafts are going around half engine speed, and the bearings are smaller than the mains. There must be more to it than that.

[desmo]

Constrained by maximum bearing surface speeds according to Wright. Lubrication- like fuel- tech is a subject more honored in the breech than the observance here, here's a place where advances in anti-cavitation properties in oils might result in obvious quantifiable performance improvements.

[marion5drsn]

Anyone have any idea of the rod and main bearing outside diameters? I just made a sketch of the overlap and was quite surprised at the overlap using 2.000" O.D.s This is likely bigger than what these O.D.s are but nevertheless it was still surprising. I also made a sketch of what would happen to the overlap at 18 degrees offset and was a little surprised there also. M.L. Anderson

[J. Edlund]

Originally posted by desmo
I wondered about the caged rollers as well. I wasn't sure if those were for the big ends or the mains- I assume the rod big end bearing. Odd choice, I thought plain bearings were universal there in F1.

[Edit] Upon further inspection, it appears the roller bearings (with split cages!) are for the mains. Strange. Note also the bolt on counterweights for the crank- compare these with the Ferrari crank with more material near the outer radius here and plug-type counterweights. Also note the April Fool's day ('02) date on the DelWest Ti intake valves!

The roller bearings are for the mains, also note that they have no pressure lubrication. The large rod ends are lubricated through a hole in the crankshaft, where the oil is feed from the front of the engine. The rollers are made from steel and are 7mm in diameter and 18mm long. Mains are 44mm and the big ends are 37mm in diameter.

The Asiatech engine was given free of charge for the team that used it.

The engine was then bought by Langford Performance Engineering which has reduced the maximum rpm and changed the electronic management system from TAG Electronics to a system from GEMS, the electronic throttles and variable inlets are removed to make the engine cheaper since its now sold commercially.

Also note that the camshafts are driven by gears from the rear of the engine. The clutch isn't bolted onto the crankshaft, instead there's a spline on the crankshaft, the clutch is supposed to be located in the gearbox. No flywheel are used.

With a maximum speed of 15,000 rpm (700 hp) the engine will last more than 1000 km between rebuilds. Maximum power is 750 hp at 16,200 rpm, this is for the 2001 version of the engine.

[Chevy II Nova]

Thanks for the info Mr. Edlund. Can I ask how you came to know this?

[J. Edlund]

Originally posted by Chevy II Nova
Thanks for the info Mr. Edlund. Can I ask how you came to know this?

It's from the same article in "Race Engine Technology" that the pictures are from. There's was a lot more info mentioned, everything from the weight of the con-rods to the material in the valve seats.

[marion5drsn]

Using the given figures by J. Edlund above I find that the overlap of the conrods to main bearing is .6866 square inches or 41.3% of the area of the conrod journal a very large amount when compared to long stroke engines, which typically have none.

Question, did the article have any mention of the center-to-center distance of the conrod itself? This rod looks short in the one view but if it is over 3.448” (87.5mm) (Edit) it might be considered “normal”. M.L. Anderson

[J. Edlund]

Asiatech V10, series one (2001)

- 72-degree V10
- 91.0 x 46.1 mm = 2996.77 cc
- 13.2:1 compression ratio
- distance between cylinders is 10.1mm, total length 610mm, width is 550mm and the height is 555mm
- dry nikasil liners, sealed to the head by .8mm thick flat steel ring
- weight 117 kg with airbox, filter, ignition box and sensors but without ECU
- camshaft runs directly in the block except for one roller bearing per camshaft
- 6 caged roller bearings for the mains, 16 rollers per bearing, 7mm diamter and 18mm long
- crankshaft is machined from solid and the counterweights are probably tungsten
- I section titanium rods, 104.89mm center to center (rod to stroke ratio 2.3:1), weight 311.99 gm
- DLC coated gun drilled piston pin, 18mm diameter with a 10.5mm hole, 41mm long, weight 52.56 gm
- oil cooled pistons, two uncoated rings. piston pin is located 20mm under the squish area of the piston. weight 229.36 gm + 9.2 gm for the rings and 2.04 gm for the circlips.
- total weight of piston-rod assembly is 635.49 gm, which also includes the 30.32 gm big end bearing shells
- Solid titanium valves from Del West, 5mm stems. 40mm intake valve (30.34 gm) and 30mm exhaust valve (28.51 gm)
- seats of Hydural and and Hydrax, guides in bronze
- PVRS operate with a pressure of 15 bar
- valve clearence is adjusted by steel shims between the DLC coated inverted steel bucket tappet and valve stem
- compound valve angle, angles are undisclosed, the same goes for the lift
- 54mm butterflys, drive by wire (electro-hydraulic) and a TAG control system on the original Asiatech engine, all the individual butterfly spindles are connected on each bank, injector is located about 50mm above the throttle
- 8 bar fuel pressure, 5 bar oil pressure, coolant temperature is 90 degrees.
- maximum rpm 16,500, max torque of 366 Nm at 12,500 rpm (bmep = 15.35 bar), 750 hp at 16,200 rpm (bmep = 13.81 bar)

[hydra]

Any idea how big the con-rod bolts are? (I'm guessing they're made of Aermet 100 or Maraging Steel)

[J. Edlund]

Originally posted by hydra
Any idea how big the con-rod bolts are? (I'm guessing they're made of Aermet 100 or Maraging Steel)

Titanium studs and nuts, unknown type.

[marion5drsn]

Sketch of conrod journal/mainbearing journal overlap.

http://home.earthlin...odlayout90d.jpg




M.L. Anderson

To follow:
Sketch of split pin conrod journal of 90 degree block engine which show how much the overlap area would decrease at 18 degrees offset. Note how this should still stiffen the crankshaft even tho the area is smaller. I am begining to believe that the 90 degree blocks have this feature but is the exhaust note of an even plulse?

http://home.earthlin...18degoffset.jpg

The sketch below is of 1.750” (44.45mm) Outside diameter journal with the stroke at 40% of the bore size. This is, I believe, as low as what the Bore/stroke ratio can be even in a F1 engine. Notice that the diameters overlap the center of the main bearing journal; since this would happen on all the journals this means that a small amount of steel would continue on thru the shaft in a continuous manner. This would raise the frequency of the shaft to an unknown amount. Possibly what the engineers want to happen. This happens at the .101” dimension.

http://home.earthlin...offset18deg.jpg

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by desmo
I wondered about the caged rollers as well. I wasn't sure if those were for the big ends or the mains- I assume the rod big end bearing. Odd choice, I thought plain bearings were universal there in F1.

[Edit] Upon further inspection, it appears the roller bearings (with split cages!) are for the mains. Strange. Note also the bolt on counterweights for the crank- compare these with the Ferrari crank with more material near the outer radius here and plug-type counterweights. Also note the April Fool's day ('02) date on the DelWest Ti intake valves!

Main roller bearings just go round and round even speed, Big end roller bearings change speed, accelerating and declerating

If Big End rollers go to fast and want to change speed, they can skid, overheat and motor go bang.

This is why very hi rpm motors (with reasonable dia shafts) dont use roller Big ends.

[Greg Locock]

Sketch of split pin conrod journal of 90 degree block engine which show how much the overlap area would decrease at 18 degrees offset. Note how this should still stiffen the crankshaft even tho the area is smaller. I am begining to believe that the 90 degree blocks have this feature but is the exhaust note of an even plulse?

Can't tell from those recordings we were playing with a while back. I think the prevalence of 2.5 order indicates that the firing pulses are unequally spaced (because a perfect V10 would have 5th order, and a perfect I5 would have only 2.5th order, and a 90 degree V10 would be somewhwere between).

However, to be sure I'd need to see some pulses that were 'pulse like' rather than a complex mess, which I couldn't find in a brief survey. Best bet would be a recording of a car backfiring on overrun.

Of course the other way of checking for offset pins would be a photo of a bare crank, or even an assembled bottom end. IF those drawings from the Peter Wright book are accurate then I'd suggest the pins are not offset, and neither are the bores.

Thinking about it, I wonder if the reduction in firing related stresses would be worth the extra deflection in the crank pins?

Silly question - if the pins are offset, how do they stop the oil from being sucked out of the end of the big end bearing?

[Megatron]

They were supposed to have an entirely new engine for 2002. They had a warmed up 01, which was a warmed up 00 Peugeot. They debuted a mock up chassis for 2003 and weeks later pulled out of F1 altogether.

DB Cooper

The Phildephia experiment

UFOs

Asiatech

Will we ever know the truth to these mysteries?