76 replies to this topic

[Wolf]

As a 'teaser' for Darren, and all that might be interested, I've fiddled around a bit with roadmaps I found on Internet and composed current layout of what used to be Preluk racing track (aka 'Opatija track'). Doesn't look much different when compared to the one on Darren's site. Inspired by Rays Lobethal Thread, I'm considering packnig my gear, mounting my faithful, yet underpowered, steed and organizing a photo-excursion to show you.



More to come soon, hopefully...

[MattFoster]

Looks good Wolf.

A question for you. Is the Rijeka track still in use? I used to love watching the 500cc bikes racing there on TV.

[Wolf]

Yep, Grobnik (Rijeka track) is still in use although infrastructure (grand stands &c) is pretty deteriorated over the years (it hosted last MotoGP in '89 or '90, IIRC). Bernie, as I've said many times, wanted it to host Adriatic GP (F1) in the near future. I am not sure whether it'll work, but let's wait and see... If only bikes came back (I cant find the drooley simley ;)).

[MattFoster]

I always thought it was the best race on the 500cc calendar. An F1 race there would be very interesting.

[Ray Bell]

How long is it, Wolf?

I don't ask for the purpose of running down your underpowered steed, either, just for the sake of knowing its length...

Have fun with the camera. There's plenty of room here for the pics...

[Wolf]

AFAIK, it should be 6 km (Darren's site says 6km also). Heh, a touch of rain and all the lack of power can be forgotten.;)

[Ray Bell]

Watch it... black ice and maybe you can be forgotten!

Can you also get commentary from competitors as I am doing with the Lobethal thread?

[Wolf]

Heh Ray- the two most prominent, AFAIK, were Villoresi (yep, it hosted one GP race) and Nello Pagani in the days he rode bikes. Come to think of it, I'd say Pa Wolf might have done a lap or two there...

[Ray Bell]

Next week I sit down with the photos and go through them with Allan Tomlinson and John Crouch... the comments they make with each corner will be posted in the slots I've allowed for that... I'll be editing them in.

Anyone you have access to that raced cars there?

[Wolf]

Yep, I guess so (I'll have to contact one of them for sure- he's the one that should help me get the info on both tracks I promised Darren). He and Pa Wolf are chums from their racing days... But I don't think there were any races over there since sixties (when the other track was built), so they should be a bit hard to find...

[Wolf]

This info (for Felix and Leif, in particular) is courtesy of Tony Kaye.;) IMHO, the results on 'Golden Era' might be wrong (Romano is according to Your classificastion 2 laps behind if we take practive time in regard, and Rocco must've been behind him).

CIRCUIT OF CARNARO - Abbazia (I), 9 JULY 1939 VOITURETTE
25 laps, 9 starters
Entry list: Pietsch, Villoresi, Cortese, Taruffi, Rocco, Romano, Barbieri, Plate, Lami, Pagliano, Bonomi.
Best time in practice - Villoresi (2:48.6 128.113 kph).
Fastest lap - Villoresi (130.120 kph, on lap 18)

Classification
1. Villoresi 1:10:41.2 (25 laps, 127.142 kph)
2. Cortese 1:11:03.4 (or -0:22.2)
3. Bonomi -2 laps
4. Rocco -4 laps

[Wolf]

Darren, the track, as shown on the roadmap is exactly the same to when races were run on it. In case You're intersted here's info about track inclinations (also courtesy of Tony Kaye):

0÷150m 0.0% (5m)*
150÷900m 3.5% (31.06m)
900÷1930m 5.3% (85.46m)
1930÷2065m 0.4% (86.00m)
2065÷2715m -2.4% (71.40m)
2715÷3865m -3.6% (30.00m)
3865÷4015m -3.0% (25.50m)
4015÷5015m -1.0% (16.00mm)
5015÷5445m -2.0% (7.00m)
5445÷5645m -1.0% (5.00m)
5645÷6000m 0.0% (5.00m)
* meters above the sea level on the end of section

Note: start/finish line was on the middle junction of the complex ('HAK' labeled building), races were run clockwise (with some exceptions). BTW, that complex was used for pits.

It hosted int'l races '50÷'77 (bikes all the time- from '69 on C'ship races; cars (GT, sports) '50÷'59; FJ '60,'61,'63; F3 '64÷'68). '60 first telecast. Closed in '77 due to increased hasards for the drivers and the fact that Grobnik (Rijeka track) was built within three months to host '78 races.

[Wolf]

Ray- when You asked me if I could get in touch with people who drove on the rack... Perchance You know some of them. Your compatriot David Walker won a F3 race on the Preluk back in '67...;)

[Ray Bell]

I've not seen David since he drove the Lotus 70 at Warwick Farm, remember him well from the Brabham FJr days, when I spoke to him often. He's somewhere in Queensland now, there was an article about him in MRA, so I could get in touch with him and get him to comment if you wish... what about Barry Collerson and Wal Donnelly then, did they run there?

They're easier to get to...

[Wolf]

I don't know Ray, at the moment I know only the names of the winners. Formula Juniors ran there in '60-'61 and '63, and Formula 3 '64-'68, if it helps You. I'll try to get some more info in the near future.

[Ray Bell]

Collerson and Donnelly left Australia for a jaunt around Europe for about three years, living in old vans and towing around F3 cars with which they sought starting money and a life in the fast lane... not seeking F1 glory.

Another on that trail was Jim Sullivan, but he went a slightly different direction, while Walker had left before them IIRC.

[Darren Galpin]

Thanks Wolf.

[alessandro silva]

I have a, rather foggy, memory of a sportscar race in Abbazia (second half of the 50s) where the thin field was completed by the cars that motorcyclist that raced the same weekend used to tow their trailers with. One of these cars was an Alfa Romeo 1900TI. I remember also a Lotus 11 with Veritas engine (????) and that maybe the race was won by Austrian Sepp Liebl. Can you refresh my memory, Wolf?

[Wolf]

Alessandro, I think You're reffering to two different races. Although it seems I'll have to do some research... OK, here's the list of races from the book:

1950... <1100cc Veselinovic (HR) Fiat 88.5kph
1950... >1100cc Maleric (SLO or HR) 90.7kph

1951... <1100cc Malagola (I)
1951... >1100cc Koresch (A)

1952... raced, but I have no specific data

1953... some junior formulae (I've seen the photo, but y'awl know me ;))

1954... <1300cc Otto Mathé (A) Porsche *had left arm amputated, must remember to append to thread on drivers
1954... >1300cc Ernst Vogel (A) Porsche 116.27kph

1955... <1300cc Otto Mathé (A) Porsche
1955... >1300cc Ernst Vogel (A) Porsche no.140

1956... >1300cc Ernst Vogel (A) Porsche no.20
1956... <3000cc* Franco Cortese (I) Ferrari no.44 121.4kph
* entered 1xAston Martin (RXK 500) no 52(RhSw), 2xJaguar C-Type no.42(LhSw)&48(RhSw), 2xFerrari (could be 250) no.40&44 RhSw, 1xMercedes 300SL (same license plates Jag no.42) no.24, 1xPorsche (S 14-444)no.20- Vogel, 1x(I don't know)

1957... ???

1958... <1300cc Sep Liebel (A) Alfa Romeo
1958... <2000cc Ernst Vogel (A) Porsche no.144 131.25 *
* first time Villoresi's 128.113kph was bettered

1959... <1300cc Charles Vögele (CH) Lotus no.121 115.4kph
1959... GT ???

1960... Formula Junior Sep Liebele (A) Stanguellini 117.65kph
1960... Sport Frazer (Rhodesia)

1961... Formula Junior Mario Zanarotti (I) Stanguellini 124.8kph

1962... ???

1963... Formula Junior Kurt Ahrens () Cooper 142.29kph

1964... Formula 3 1st heat Roman Dirschl (D) Lotus, 2nd Heat Hans Byczkowski (DDR) Wartburg

1965... Formula 3 Manfred Mohr (D) Brabham 139.05kph

1966... Formula 3* Patrick Dal Bo (F) Brabham 95.25kph
* cancelled after 5 out of scheduled 12 laps due to heavy rain

1967... Formula 3 David Walker (AUS) Cosworth

1968... Formula 3 Manfred Mohr (D) Tecno 149.169kph

That's all, AFAIK.

BTW, the track had, when bikes were concerned, had the same reputation as Isle of Man, and was killed off the year after the Man. And I'd like to take this opportunity to mention the bike-riders who lost their lives on Preluk circuit.

Josip Vitanovic (HR) 1951
Billie Nelson (GB) 1974
Urlich Graf (CH) 1977
Giovanni Ziggotto (I) 1977

[David McKinney]

For Ray Bell:
At first check I have been unable to confirm whether Collerson and Donnelly raced at Opatija. I did however find a mention of Collerson finishing third in a race at Portoroz, also in Yugoslavia, on 15/9/66. (Or was that yet another name for the same place?) Sixth in the same race incidentally was Kurt Keller - wasn’t he one of yours as well?

[Ray Bell]

Kurt Keller, the Jensen Healey dealer? Sort of became one of the tribe... came from Switzerland, I think, not sure where his life path took him, but he seemed to be back and forth a bit and I can't really recall how it went. 1966 might have been before his first arrival here, but I wouldn't be sure.

You know how it is with Kings Cross Jensen Healey dealers....

[Wolf]

David, Portoroz is coastal town in Slovenia, should be hard to miss, seing they don't have a big stretch of a coast. mWahahahh. Sorry for 'neighbourly' remark, You know how it is. The both places (or even three) are easy to find on a map. The Rijeka and Opatija are on south-eastern end of Istria peninsula, while Portoroz is on north-western side. Istria peninsula is easy to find- the biggest peninsula in the Adriatic. As a matter of fact the bay Preluk (as seen on the track map 'Uvala Preluk', is the point where peninsula 'starts').

[Marcor]

From David Venables book, The Racing Fifteen-hundreds, a history of voiturette racing from 1931 to 1940:

Although Mussolini's edict prevented the Italian team being at Rheims (The Coupe de la Commission Sportive), the Maserati team was not deprived of a race that Sunday (9th July 1939) for as a consolation the team went to the North East coast of the Adriatic as far as the coastal holiday resort of Abbazia * where the Circuit of Carnaro was being run on a 3.7 mile (6 kilometre) circuit.

This made a change from the usual Italian short circuit ** and nine Maseratis appeared. The Works Maserati Team comprised two 4CL's for (Gigi) Villoresi and (Franco) Cortese and the 24 valve 6CM for Giovanni Rocco. Rocco's 6CM led Villoresi and Cortese at the start but then fell back with engine bothers leaving Villoresi and Cortese to complete the 93 mile (150 km) course in a easy demonstration. The pace was hard as five cars fell out including those of (Paul) Pietsch and Barbieri both of whom only lasted for one lap. To those so soon after his brother's death (Emilio Villoresi, Monday 20th June while testing a Tipo 158 Alfa Romeo at Monza) was a courageous act for Villoresi.

* After WW2 the province of Venezia Giulia was ceded to Yugoslavia and (now) forms part of the province of Istria. Abbazia has been renamed Opatija.

The result: 25 laps = 150 km
1- L. Villoresi Maserati 4CL 1h 10' 51.2" (127.14 kph, 78.45 mph)
2- Cortese Maserati 4CL 1h 11' 3.4"
3- Romano Maserati 1h 18' 17.3"
4- Rocco Maserati 6CM 1565 24 laps

9 starters, 4 finishers.

This result is I think the same than in Golden Era, and I remember this book is quoted in the reference sources.

**: in comparison, length of the other Italian circuit used for voiturette races from 1931 to 1940:
Campione d'Italia: 1.1 km (1937)
San Remo, 1.86 km (1937)
Biella, 2.2 km (1934, 1935)
Lucca, 2.35 km (1936,1937, 1938)
Milan, 2.57 km (1936, 1937)
Turino (Valentino Park), 2.92 km (1937)
Circuito Della Superba, Genoa, 3 km (1937)
Modena, 3.19 km (1934, 1935, 1936, 1938)
Florence: 3.3 km (1937)
Varese, 3.6 km (1938)
Littorio (Roma), 3.94 km (1931, 1932)
Posillipo (Naples), 4.1 km (1937, 1938, 1939)
Favorita Park Palermo, 5.26 km (1937)
Favorita Park Palermo, 5.72 km (1938, 1939)
Livorno, 5.8 km (1938, 1939)

Only longer than Abbazia (Opatija)
Monza, 6.86 km (1931)
Monza, 6.99 km (1938)
Livorno, 7 km (1936)
Alesandria, 8 km (1931)
Monza, 10 km (1931)
Tripoli, 13.14 km (1937-1940)
Livorno Montenero, 20.1 km (1931-1935)
Pescara, 25.6 km (1931-1939)
Short Madonie circuit, 72 km (1935)

[David McKinney]

Wolf, apologies for my laziness in not checking an atlas (a book of maps, not an F1 website) before posting. I know how I'd feel if someone suggested Donington Park was the same as Brands Hatch, or Teretonga the same as Ardmore!

Some more data on a couple of the 50s races:

1956 1300:
1 Vogel (Porsche)
2 Zeller (Alfa Romeo)
3 Günther (Porsche)
4 Maleric (Porsche)

1956 Over 1300:
1 Cortese (Ferrari 2.0)
2 Vogel (Porsche)
3 Zeller (MB 300SL)
4 Mozzato (Maserati)
5 “Madero” (Ferrari)

1958 Over 1300:
1 Vogel (Porsche)
2 Govoni (Maserati 2.0)
3 “Wal Ever” (Maserati 2.0)
4 Fischer (Porsche)
5 Hartmann (DKW)

1956 meeting date was 10 June

[Wolf]

Heh, David, no problem at all. It's not like capital crime or something- and it's easier to ask than to llok up (I've resorted to that many a time).;)

And to reply to Marcor- Istria was returned to former Yugoslavia after the WWII- they got it after WWI (IIRC) which it 'owners' lost. In the fact Opatija (Abbazia, as the Italians call it) was one of the first tourist resorts (back in 19th century) in Austro-Hungarian empire.

[Ray Bell]

It's fascinating that more real estate changed hands after the 1914-18 war than could be hoped to keep every agent in the world in business for a lifetime, Wolf, but that doesn't really change things.

The people of the land, the ones who regarded it as home, saw this as no proof of title. Change after change has taken place in Europe, the whole joint is littered with the graves of those who wasted their lives trying to either change it again or prevent it changing hands.

What a woeful situation, what a pity that racing circuits have to be embroiled in these issues. What a pity we have to consider these issues when we discuss them!

[Rob29]

Re; the 67 race,Barry Collerson's name appears in the list of runners in Paul Sheldon's Blue Book. No result though..

[David McKinney]

Another whoops!
Just had another look at my 1956 data and the results I have for the 1300 race are:
1 Zeller (Alfa Romeo)
2 Günther (Porsche)
3 Maleric (Porsche)
Apologies

[Roger Clark]

This is Barry collerson on the 1966 race:

Our next meeting, the Adriatic Grand Prix in Yugoslavia, gave me my first experience of racing behind the Iron curtain, The colourful seaside town of Opatija is like an oasis in the desert after passing through the poverty stricken, depressing landscape of Yugoslavia, and it is here that the Grand Prix is held, on a natural road circuit which starts on the beachfront and winds up a steep hill with a rock face on one side and a sheer drop to the sea, protected by a stone wall, on the other. Then comes a fast downhill straight, a hairpin, another straight bit followed by a series of downhill S bends and back to the pits on the waterfront. The circuit also boasts an uphill hairpin which is the tightest I have ever seen; during practice I think every driver had to select reverse gear to get round it at one time or another. The general layout is not unlike Monaco, but it’s much faster and longer, being almost four miles per lap. We were paid our starting money in local currency and, as this money has little value on the exchange rate outside Yugoslavia, we decided to spend as much as possible while we were there. Our starting money, equal to about £45 each, was a small fortune by local standards and we found it difficult to get rid of the filthy stuff – I wish I suffered from this problem more often. We even lived it up by staying in a hotel, which was a change from living, sleeping and eating in the transporter.

Saturday’s programme consisted of several motor cycle events plus the two eight-lap qualifying heats for the Grand Prix. In my heat I managed to finish second, with Kurt third, but I was lucky to finish, nursing my car to the chequered flag with 20lbs oil pressure and a run big-end bearing which took its toll on the big-end and con rod. Overnight we patched up the engine with a new set of bearings as a starting money special for the final on Sunday. However, the race became a farce when the heavens opened up just before the start making the already dicey circuit like a skating rink. The promoters wanted to abandon the race and after some argument the cars which had qualified were wheeled out onto the circuit to drive an exploratory lap, after which a vote was taken. The result was a deadlock, half the drivers (including Kurt and myself) voting to race while the remainder claimed it was too dangerous. Eventually a compromise was reached, the race being run over five laps instead of 12. although run at a snail’s pace, several drivers (including me!) still managed to spin on the treacherous surface, the eventual winner being Patrick Dal-Bo in the works entered Pygmee. Kurt, who loves the rain, upheld our team name by finishing third.

[Roger Clark]

Results of the 1967 race:

Heat 1:
1 D Walker (Merlyn Mark 10)
2 M Stephani (merlyn Mark 10)
3 T Ogilvie-Hardy (Alexis)

Heat 2
1 G Crenier (Merlyn)
2 T Cash (Merlyn)
3 M Hollebeck (Brabham)

Grand Prix Adriatique (12 laps0
1 Walker 31m 1.0s 139.28kph
2 Crenier
3 Stephani
4 Cash
5 F Kallenbergeeer (Brabham)
6 Hollebeck
Fastest lap Walker 142.86kph

consolation final (10 laps)
1 A Goodwin (Brabham BT18) 28m 17.4s
2 H Melkus (wartburg)
3 W Lehmann (Wartburg)
Fastest lap Goodwin 130.45kph

Barry collerson did compete. He failed to finish his heat and started from the back row for the consolation final. He also wrote the report for Autosport, bt failed to tell us how he got on.

[Ray Bell]

Bet Barry would have preferred the old Lago Talbot in that rain!

I'll chase him and Wal Donnelly up when Wolf has his pictures posted, get comments around the circuit for you. Spoke to Barry only about 2 years ago, Wal now runs a Sports 2000 car in Historics.

Bernd is about to transfer the famous (infamous) pic of Wal working on his Turner in front of the Chermside Caravilla to a digital format for us... you should get a laugh out of the sight of the sight of 'Fat Pete' in his pyjamas!

[Wolf]

I thought I dig this thread up, just in case...;)

[Ray Bell]

Wal Donnelly never raced there...

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Anyone who has the result of the 1968 F3 race at Opatija (or Preluk), June 16.
Manfred Mohr won in a Tecno 68 - Ford/Novamotor, but that is all info I have found.

Stefan

[dmj]

I can only add that his fastest lap was 149,169 km/h, absolute track record at the time...

[Vitesse2]

.... and Wolf's on holiday, so that may be all you'll get Stefan!

[jarama]

Originally posted by dmj
I can only add that his fastest lap was 149,169 km/h, absolute track record at the time...

...after beating the previous record -or the fastest lap for this race, isn't clear- four times during this race, held @ Opatija, and named Adriatic GP.

Carles.

[sat]

I can add:second was Giancarlo Gagliardi in Brabham

[Wolf]

OK, a long overdue pictorial guide to former racetrack is finally in the making! No thanks to me, if I might add. For I have scheduled my trip to Preluk for end of next month, and a friend of mine has made his poor old parents make a detour returning from vacation to take pictures of the track. The trouble with him is that he's very shy and only lurks in here (I intend to drag him in here, by his ears if need be, to take deserved credit).

A note to Don- there is relevant thread buried deep down in bowels of archive, and if You see it fitting, You could unlock it (that ability comes with super-powers of Host of Glorious Forum TNF), and merge it with this one. I'm speaking of this thread: http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=17461 .

For starters this is Photoshop hack-job at creating waterfront image (one can see bits and pieces of the track)-

http://members.atlas.../waterfront.jpg

Edit: picture was taken from plateau in front of complex towards easty by north-east.

[Wolf]

I hope Darren will not mind, here is a map he has posted on Tracks of the world (just for the reference) :

[Wolf]

The circuit was travelled in opposite direction, but some corners (bottom hairpin, #17 on map) are just too tight, either way one looks at them. BTW, was there ever a tighter corner on GP track?

[Wolf]

Here are two shots of upper hairpin exit. With bumpy surface as it is nowdays, I suspect it was much bumpier back then. As I've said , pictures are taken when traveling in opposite direction so the bottom image is in fact 'little further down the road:

[Wolf]

Well, I'm not trying not to maker sense with order of photos- it's a talent. : Here's the exit from the last corner onto the S/F straight. The green/mossy object in background are grandstands (not exactly in mint condition, eh?) :

[Wolf]

I just noticed the the leftmost frame is missing in panorama shot (I don't have it scanned). But a quick googling produced this panorama shot showing what's situated a little outside the frame to the left:

http://www.kirchbaue...ie/Panorama.jpg

[gdecarli]

Thanks, great photos!

Note: this circuit is known also as Abbazia - Circuito del Carnaro (in Italian) and Opatija. I want to write it, in order to help any eventual search using these names as key words.

Ciao,
Guido

[Wolf]

Guido, I'm glad You like them. BTW, is Carnaro Italian name for the 'region'? Croatian name for it is Kvarner (the bay between southern Istria and mainland, with islands like Krk, Cres, &c)?

Here's two more shots of bottom hairpin*:

14.


3.


* I think hairpin might have been a bit further up the road from current position (about the position of the traffic sign on upper photo, making it a bit less tight, but 'drop' causing much more of a problem).

[Wolf]

Photos continue in no particular order (I'll try to mark them on the map when I'm finished) :

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[Wolf]

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7.

[Wolf]

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[Wolf]

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12B.