1- as far as i remember he tested a Ferrari a few years ago, how did it go?
2- Does his Honda bike as the same spec. as Gibernau's?
two questions about Max Biaggi
Started by
Taxi
, Jun 05 2004 14:17
20 replies to this topic
#3
Nasty McBastard
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Posted 05 June 2004 - 14:32
regarding #2. i dont think so.
i think sete has official factory gear...
max has semi-official factory gear...
not that it matters...max is hopless on big bikes
i think sete has official factory gear...
max has semi-official factory gear...
not that it matters...max is hopless on big bikes
#4
RedIsTheColour
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Posted 05 June 2004 - 15:10
Regarding #2, yes: they are both using 2004 RCVs with the second generation 2004 engine, which is nastier but faster with it. The Repsol guys have a slight advantage but it hasn't helped them. The significant differences are in software with the RCVs which are the equivalent of the 2002 Ferrari - absolute perfection.
#5
giddyup409
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Posted 05 June 2004 - 15:42
Originally posted by Nasty McBastard
not that it matters...max is hopless on big bikes
it is interesting to note that there are a lot of great riders on 250cc > that can't get the grips on the 500cc <
i believe that's why we are seeing lately the migration pattern from different sbk competitions to 500cc < , rather than from 250cc > to 500cc <
and i don't think it's something about that you can make a case their skills are devalued, it's just different level of skill
mio 2c
#6
Goodwood
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Posted 05 June 2004 - 15:56
Max cherry picked for far to long in the 250 class.
Sete's and Max's bikes are the same, or at least they have access to the same parts.
Sete's and Max's bikes are the same, or at least they have access to the same parts.
#7
Nasty McBastard
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Posted 05 June 2004 - 16:21
well there you go.. i thought they had diff specs.
regarding moving up the ladder... its probably even more of a challenge to jump from 250's to 'top' class now its 1000cc.
rossi (and lets admit it, hes a freak) is the last guy i can think of who stepped up from a lower class and did anything.... nakano, and jacque were the **** in 250....done squat on 500+....kato...dominant on a 250...didnt do much on 500+ (although he didnt get much of a shot before...well...)....
the list goes on.
about the only one who i still think has a chance at doing well is melandri...and that depends on bikes and keeping fit.
ill be interested to see how pedrosa and elias do on the big bikes when they step up.....
pogialli... im a big fan, but i bet he sucks nut on a 1000.
it wasnt that long ago that a guy would find his 'class' and stick at it...there wasnt such a big deal about making it to 500+. sadly these days it all seems to be about the top class, even though the lower ones have better racing.
with such an apparent big step up these days, maybe well find it going back to like it was...guys sticking to their ideal class.
it seems a shame theres a constant drain on the 125's and 250's as champions move up to the top class, only to be field fillers. its getting to the point where motoGP has loads of ex-champs who end up tooling about with no chance....
id much rather see them stay in 125s or 250s.... unless, ofcourse, theyre actually suited to 1000s
regarding moving up the ladder... its probably even more of a challenge to jump from 250's to 'top' class now its 1000cc.
rossi (and lets admit it, hes a freak) is the last guy i can think of who stepped up from a lower class and did anything.... nakano, and jacque were the **** in 250....done squat on 500+....kato...dominant on a 250...didnt do much on 500+ (although he didnt get much of a shot before...well...)....
the list goes on.
about the only one who i still think has a chance at doing well is melandri...and that depends on bikes and keeping fit.
ill be interested to see how pedrosa and elias do on the big bikes when they step up.....
pogialli... im a big fan, but i bet he sucks nut on a 1000.
it wasnt that long ago that a guy would find his 'class' and stick at it...there wasnt such a big deal about making it to 500+. sadly these days it all seems to be about the top class, even though the lower ones have better racing.
with such an apparent big step up these days, maybe well find it going back to like it was...guys sticking to their ideal class.
it seems a shame theres a constant drain on the 125's and 250's as champions move up to the top class, only to be field fillers. its getting to the point where motoGP has loads of ex-champs who end up tooling about with no chance....
id much rather see them stay in 125s or 250s.... unless, ofcourse, theyre actually suited to 1000s
#8
ckkl
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Posted 06 June 2004 - 13:59
Actually the 1000cc capacity isn't truly "double" the 500cc because the 1000cc bikes have to operate in 4-strokes (vs 2-strokes for the 500cc).
Basically it means the 500cc 2-stroke bike produces torque twice as often as a 1000cc 4-stroke bike.
However, the 4-stroke "otto cycle" is definitely far more efficient.
My point is, doubling the capacity to 1000cc but forcing 4-strokes doesn't really double the power. Can be misleading. In fact, I believe some argue the 500cc two-strokes could be just as competitive today if the series (and all the R&D) didn't shift towards 4-strokers.
Basically it means the 500cc 2-stroke bike produces torque twice as often as a 1000cc 4-stroke bike.
However, the 4-stroke "otto cycle" is definitely far more efficient.
My point is, doubling the capacity to 1000cc but forcing 4-strokes doesn't really double the power. Can be misleading. In fact, I believe some argue the 500cc two-strokes could be just as competitive today if the series (and all the R&D) didn't shift towards 4-strokers.
#9
ratmac
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Posted 06 June 2004 - 14:13
thats correct ckkl i own a 250 cc 2 stroke motocross bike and compared to the 450 cc 4 stroke the 250 i own has a little bit more horsepower but the differences are the torque numbers and the spread of good useable power.
#10
AdrianM
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Posted 06 June 2004 - 14:23
Yeah Max spent far too long in 250cc - although he won four titles. He therefore relies too heavily on the front and if he doesn't have feeling in it he tends to fall back.
#11
MrSlow
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Posted 06 June 2004 - 14:30
rossi (and lets admit it, hes a freak) is the last guy i can think of who stepped up from a lower class and did anything.... nakano, and jacque were the **** in 250....done squat on 500+....kato...dominant on a 250...didnt do much on 500+ (although he didnt get much of a shot before...well...)....
I think it is unfair to say that Max have failed in MotoGP. He have won races and IMO it is Max and Sete that consistently challenges Valentino. He does not (always) have that extra edge that Rossi have, but a talent (for racing) like Rossi is not born everyday. Had it not been for Rossi, I believe Biaggi might have had a MotoGP championship by now, but his confidence must have suffered from all the beating he has gotten from Rossi.
#12
Vrba
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Posted 06 June 2004 - 16:14
In fact, theoretically, a 1000 cc 4-stroke and 500 cc 2-stroke could be just equally as powerful (for the same rpm) as 4-stroke has 1 working stroke every 2 revolutions per cylinder and 2-stroke has 1 working (power-producing) stroke every 1 revolution per cylinder.
However, as ckkl correctly pointed out, 2-stroke process is less efficient (probably because of more efficient breathing of the 4-stroke systems) so the practice differs from the theory....
Hrvoje
However, as ckkl correctly pointed out, 2-stroke process is less efficient (probably because of more efficient breathing of the 4-stroke systems) so the practice differs from the theory....
Hrvoje
#13
GhostR
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Posted 06 June 2004 - 21:08
The 2 strokes had pretty much hit a development wall. That's why the 4 stroke change was made. No way in hell a 2 stroke 500cc could compete with the current 4 strokes, even if someone wanted to.
As for Max ... if he stopped whining and complaining he might actually get somewhere. I was grinding my teeth listening to him in the interviews after Mugello race. Cripes, did he have anything positive to say? He basically pooped all over the Honda guys. He did the same when he was on Honda previously ("I'm getting beaten because my bike isn't as good"), he did it on the Yam ("I'm getting beaten because the Yamaha is not as good as the Honda, give me a Honda and I'll win") ... and he's back to the same old tricks on the Honda ("I'm getting beaten because my Honda isn't as good as the others"). Wake up, Max.
What I find really interesting is this:
* Max and Barros on the Yamaha. Supposedly the lead riders and thus you'd expect them to be leading the bikes development. Continuous complaints about the front end, in particular chatter.
* Max and Barros move back to Honda, Rossi goes to Yamaha. Strangely enough ... the Yamaha is no longer suffering the chatter issues anywhere near as bad (see how much confidence Rossi had in the front at Mugello?). And what are we hearing from the Honda camp? Big problems with front end chatter.
As for Max ... if he stopped whining and complaining he might actually get somewhere. I was grinding my teeth listening to him in the interviews after Mugello race. Cripes, did he have anything positive to say? He basically pooped all over the Honda guys. He did the same when he was on Honda previously ("I'm getting beaten because my bike isn't as good"), he did it on the Yam ("I'm getting beaten because the Yamaha is not as good as the Honda, give me a Honda and I'll win") ... and he's back to the same old tricks on the Honda ("I'm getting beaten because my Honda isn't as good as the others"). Wake up, Max.
What I find really interesting is this:
* Max and Barros on the Yamaha. Supposedly the lead riders and thus you'd expect them to be leading the bikes development. Continuous complaints about the front end, in particular chatter.
* Max and Barros move back to Honda, Rossi goes to Yamaha. Strangely enough ... the Yamaha is no longer suffering the chatter issues anywhere near as bad (see how much confidence Rossi had in the front at Mugello?). And what are we hearing from the Honda camp? Big problems with front end chatter.
#14
smithy
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Posted 07 June 2004 - 01:32
Max gave Mick Doohan a run for his money when he first came up to 500cc. That season (1997?) was one of the best for a long time because Max, Criville and Mick swapped places on the podium for most of the season - there was never more than about 10 points separating the three of them for a long while.
Max probably thought that he had it made but lost his way right at the end of that season and then Mick clobbered him the next year. He's never really made it back from there - Vale has stepped in where Mick left off.
I think the Barros criticism is a little harsh. He was dynamite on the V5 two years ago (he beat Rossi twice with equal machinery) and was injured early on in the season. He was motoring through the field yesterday and had Rossi not put his hand up, Barros would have been right with them with a couple of laps to go.
Rossi is a freak - no doubt about it. Having said that, he is riding the wheels of the Yamaha (as only he can). I just pray that he can keep it upright and that he doesn't end up like Mick or (heaven forbid) Wayne Rainey because he's pushing the bike beyond it's limits.
Max probably thought that he had it made but lost his way right at the end of that season and then Mick clobbered him the next year. He's never really made it back from there - Vale has stepped in where Mick left off.
I think the Barros criticism is a little harsh. He was dynamite on the V5 two years ago (he beat Rossi twice with equal machinery) and was injured early on in the season. He was motoring through the field yesterday and had Rossi not put his hand up, Barros would have been right with them with a couple of laps to go.
Rossi is a freak - no doubt about it. Having said that, he is riding the wheels of the Yamaha (as only he can). I just pray that he can keep it upright and that he doesn't end up like Mick or (heaven forbid) Wayne Rainey because he's pushing the bike beyond it's limits.
#15
Nasty McBastard
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Posted 07 June 2004 - 05:37
yeah.... its harsh to say max has 'failed'.....but really... its just how it is.
its bad luck hes come up against doohan, then rossi...but it happens.
its a bit like everyone in f1 since 94...barring mika, damon and JV(and hes arguable since 97), theyve all failed really...sure, people have won races and had successful careers, but they havent done what they came to do....win WC's.
max, sete, barros....theyre all good riders, whove won races....but.....
whats even worse for max is that hes had his cances, and still not won a title....he had a season or two in the windown between doohan and rossi...hell, even with doohan there, had max not had a brain explosion in spain (99? 00?) with the whole black flag cum DQ thing, he could of been WC......
hes a bit ralf schumacher-esque to me...if its all perfect, then hes all but unbeatable...but if one little thing is slightly off, he loses the plot and spends more energy moaning about stuff....
having said all that, it does seem max is back on his game this year.....and, coincidently, less moaning.....
its bad luck hes come up against doohan, then rossi...but it happens.
its a bit like everyone in f1 since 94...barring mika, damon and JV(and hes arguable since 97), theyve all failed really...sure, people have won races and had successful careers, but they havent done what they came to do....win WC's.
max, sete, barros....theyre all good riders, whove won races....but.....
whats even worse for max is that hes had his cances, and still not won a title....he had a season or two in the windown between doohan and rossi...hell, even with doohan there, had max not had a brain explosion in spain (99? 00?) with the whole black flag cum DQ thing, he could of been WC......
hes a bit ralf schumacher-esque to me...if its all perfect, then hes all but unbeatable...but if one little thing is slightly off, he loses the plot and spends more energy moaning about stuff....
having said all that, it does seem max is back on his game this year.....and, coincidently, less moaning.....
#16
smithy
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Posted 07 June 2004 - 06:01
Originally posted by Nasty McBastard
... had max not had a brain explosion in spain (99? 00?) with the whole black flag cum DQ thing, he could of been WC......
1998 I think, Doohan had been punted off at T1 and the race was Max's for the taking.
#17
GhostR
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Posted 07 June 2004 - 06:07
Originally posted by Nasty McBastard
having said all that, it does seem max is back on his game this year.....and, coincidently, less moaning.....
You must've missed the Mugello post-race interviews. Moan was all he did
.
#18
smithy
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Posted 07 June 2004 - 06:12
Originally posted by smithy
1998 I think, Doohan had been punted off at T1 and the race was Max's for the taking.
Now that I think about it, perhaps Doohan won that race as I remember comments from him saying that he didn't need to pass because he could see that Max had been black flagged and didn't understand why he hadn't gone in for the original stop and go.
#19
Fidgey
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Posted 07 June 2004 - 07:59
Originally posted by GhostR
You must've missed the Mugello post-race interviews. Moan was all he did
Yep there will always be problems. Blah Blah Blah (insert problem) but I would like to thank Honda and Michelin.
I think itwas in the last post race interview where at the beginning he complained about the tyres, how they were going off and then at the end of the interview thanked Michelin for good tyres over the weekend.
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#20
Nasty McBastard
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Posted 08 June 2004 - 00:57
i did miss the interviews actually......back to his old tricks then? shame.
i think it was criville who got punted in spain. as mentioned i remember doohan not bothering to try and pass.
max and someone else who i dont recall got black flags...the other guy took his penalty and still finished 9th or something.
at the time i remember thinking that considering max's pace compared to the other guy, hed of got 6th atleast.... would of given him 10 more points in the championship......
he lost by more than 10 points, but it would of kept him in the championship alot longer and had him alot closer.... any time you go into a WC deciding race only needing 10 points over the other guy, instead of 25 or whatever...anything can happen.
1998...man.. time flies, only seems like 2 or 3 years ago...
i think it was criville who got punted in spain. as mentioned i remember doohan not bothering to try and pass.
max and someone else who i dont recall got black flags...the other guy took his penalty and still finished 9th or something.
at the time i remember thinking that considering max's pace compared to the other guy, hed of got 6th atleast.... would of given him 10 more points in the championship......
he lost by more than 10 points, but it would of kept him in the championship alot longer and had him alot closer.... any time you go into a WC deciding race only needing 10 points over the other guy, instead of 25 or whatever...anything can happen.
1998...man.. time flies, only seems like 2 or 3 years ago...
#21
MrSlow
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Posted 08 June 2004 - 01:27
Some years ago, it must have been 1999, Max had a sign that he showed to the cameras during the "grid walk" prior to the start. It said:
Max Biaggi
250 World Champion
500 World Champion
Formula One World Champion
I guess it was some time near the Ferrari test. Maybe the 500 WC title was what Luca wanted before giving Max another test in F1? Considering the test Rossi did and all the rumours before, it is not impossible. But I think Max is beginning to realise that he will have to settle for one out of three, and he needs something to blame. And someone. There is word that Valentino and Max is more friendly to eachother now, but they have been in a fistfight together and at Mugello it looked like Max was very close to push Rossi out on the grass when Rossi passed him on the inside in the last sprint (he did push Rossi out on the grass at 300+ kmh a couple of years ago).
A bit more sunshine in his attitude would propably give him a lot better results.
Max Biaggi
250 World Champion
500 World Champion
Formula One World Champion
I guess it was some time near the Ferrari test. Maybe the 500 WC title was what Luca wanted before giving Max another test in F1? Considering the test Rossi did and all the rumours before, it is not impossible. But I think Max is beginning to realise that he will have to settle for one out of three, and he needs something to blame. And someone. There is word that Valentino and Max is more friendly to eachother now, but they have been in a fistfight together and at Mugello it looked like Max was very close to push Rossi out on the grass when Rossi passed him on the inside in the last sprint (he did push Rossi out on the grass at 300+ kmh a couple of years ago).
A bit more sunshine in his attitude would propably give him a lot better results.
