43 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

Surfed into a summary of Ralt racing car production.
For some who have missed it, it might be of interest.

http://www.ralt-raci...lt_history.html

[RTH]

Rainer : Thank you for that.

[eldougo]

Thank you for that info Rainer well done.

[fines]

This seems to be the same as the one from the Lawrence book, but I can't help thinking it's not accurate. For one thing, contrary to most reports there were at least two RT3s built in 1979, because one turned up here in Bitburg when Salazar's car must have been on its way to the Argentine...

[eldougo]

In 1979 there was only 1 RT-3 for E. Salazar 1st run was at Donnington early in the year (wet of course) i was there helping him and then i caught up again at the Austrian GP support race on the saturday.He when back to UK that night after the race so he could do another race the following weekend.There was another chassis in the factory late 1979 but it was finished in the winter of that year.

[fines]

You sure?

I know, you should know but I have different info...


__________________
In retrospect, it is clear that Leopold Bloom - intended by his creator to speak as an ordinary man outraged by the injustice of the world - had outraged the world by his very ordinariness. -- Declan Kiberd

[eldougo]

I am sure , maybe Bert Schafer will no something. A Ralt in German soil would never got past him.

[Falcadore]

Would you believe a RT4 acquired a Buick/Holden V6? Woul dhave liked to have seen it but purists might not like the modifications that must have been made to accomodate it.

Early days of Formula Holden spawned some strange things.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Falcadore
Would you believe a RT4 acquired a Buick/Holden V6? Woul dhave liked to have seen it but purists might not like the modifications that must have been made to accomodate it.

Early days of Formula Holden spawned some strange things.

An RT1 acquired a Rover V8 - as Coogar will no doubt be only too pleased to recount ;)

[Falcadore]

you win

[Coogar]

Yes, Coogar most definitely will confirm RT1-Rover-ness.
It also had a DFV fitted in its early days.
It wasn't the only V8 one either. Chris Cannell ran a similar (Rover) car on the hills during the 90s, while I do recall seeing an RT1 with some variety of US V6 fitted which came from the States - I think via John Brannigan - to Jackie Harris in N.Ireland. He never actually used it and sold it on to (I think) Jeremy Bouckley.
The tub - or what appears to be the tub - is now in Atlantic form with Dan Daly in Dublin.
I always wondered what it was used for in the US, but seem to recall that there was a Cicale Can-Am body with it when first offered for sale....
Come to think of it I can also recall seeing some 'sports racing' RT4s fitted with flat six 2-strole (outboard-based ?) engines at a test session at Lime Rock. I never really found out much about them but they certainly made an interesting noise......

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Coogar
... I do recall seeing an RT1 with some variety of US V6 fitted which came from the States - I think via John Brannigan - to Jackie Harris in N.Ireland. He never actually used it and sold it on to (I think) Jeremy Bouckley.
The tub - or what appears to be the tub - is now in Atlantic form with Dan Daly in Dublin.
I always wondered what it was used for in the US, but seem to recall that there was a Cicale Can-Am body with it when first offered for sale....

I had heard this story but you're the first person to connect John Brannigan to it. Did you actually see it with a V6 or with a Cicale body? Do you recall where or whe you saw it advertised?

Thanks

Allen

[Coogar]

Okay Allen....Starting close to the top. At the time (late eighties) Brannigan was, I think, the only one advertising whole lists of cars in Autosport, and I'm certain the car in question was one of them. I bought the Coogar in Nov '85, and the ad appeared a year or so after that.
It (the V6 car) subsequently came to Ireland for Jackie Harris and I saw it then - I think the V6 was a Buick, but am not certain - and recall that there appeared to be little clearance between the exhaust headers and the top rear radius rods which ran below them. I reckoned at the time that on full bump, contact would be made.
As far as I know Jackie Harris never ran the car on a 'real' track and sold it on shortly afterwards. I don't think he ever had the Cicale body, but will ask him tomorrow as we're still in touch. However I'm certain that the advert included it.
I do recall that the car was immaculate in a way that few UK cars are, although most US ones seem to be.
I'm equally certain that, as I saw it, it was in full 'single seater' mode, complete with Ralt bodywork and wing, and didn't look as though all it needed to be complete was a sports car body !
But what US category would a V6 RT1 have fitted into during the 80s ?
I know the tub/chassis is now running in Ireland as an Atlantic but without any chassis number. Only the paint (Harris livery showing through) and an enlarged fuel filler aperture tell the tale to me .
There has been some discussion about the car on ten-tenths, but no answers........

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Falcadore
Would you believe a RT4 acquired a Buick/Holden V6? Woul dhave liked to have seen it but purists might not like the modifications that must have been made to accomodate it.....

I don't think it would have needed anything extraordinary...

From memory, the RT4 had kind of outriggers that went back from the main tub to enclose the engine bay... at worst these might have had to be remade. Naturally there would have been suspension and probably brake changes, but that's all bolt on stuff.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Coogar
Okay Allen....Starting close to the top. At the time (late eighties) Brannigan was, I think, the only one advertising whole lists of cars in Autosport, and I'm certain the car in question was one of them. I bought the Coogar in Nov '85, and the ad appeared a year or so after that.
It (the V6 car) subsequently came to Ireland for Jackie Harris and I saw it then - I think the V6 was a Buick, but am not certain - and recall that there appeared to be little clearance between the exhaust headers and the top rear radius rods which ran below them. I reckoned at the time that on full bump, contact would be made.
As far as I know Jackie Harris never ran the car on a 'real' track and sold it on shortly afterwards. I don't think he ever had the Cicale body, but will ask him tomorrow as we're still in touch. However I'm certain that the advert included it.
I do recall that the car was immaculate in a way that few UK cars are, although most US ones seem to be.
I'm equally certain that, as I saw it, it was in full 'single seater' mode, complete with Ralt bodywork and wing, and didn't look as though all it needed to be complete was a sports car body !
But what US category would a V6 RT1 have fitted into during the 80s ?
I know the tub/chassis is now running in Ireland as an Atlantic but without any chassis number. Only the paint (Harris livery showing through) and an enlarged fuel filler aperture tell the tale to me .
There has been some discussion about the car on ten-tenths, but no answers........

A V6 RT1 would have been eligible for Single-Seat Can-Am which makes sense if there was a Cicale body with the car. Cicale originally built an enclosed body for his Ralt RT1 in 1978 and refined this in 1979 before building two Ralt-based Specials in 1980. After that, copies appear to have been made of the body from his 1979 car and in 1983 and maybe 1984, Mike Freberg drove this RT1 with a Buick V6 in it.

http://www.racingspo...3-06-05-033.jpg

http://www.racingspo...3-09-11-033.jpg

The body in these pictures is definitely a Cicale one, matching pictures of Cicale's, Truman's and Evans' cars in 1978-1981. Freberg's car may even have been one of the three known 1978-1980 Cicale-Ralts. The 1980/81 Marquey and David Locke's car also had this bodywork but those may have been Marches.

Allen

[Adam F]

Re. the 1979 RT3 F3 question........

A photocopy of a Ralt chassis listing which I have lists SIX RT3s produced in 1978 :-

1 For Salazar (c/no 160)
1 for Schafer (c/no 168)
4 for McCarty (Chuck McCarty, who was Ralt's Italian agent)

On the face of it this shows that the Ralt production summary, linked at the start of this thread, needs to be treated with caution........

[Adam F]

Correction....that should be "produced in 1979" !!

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by Adam F
Re. the 1979 RT3 F3 question........

A photocopy of a Ralt chassis listing which I have lists SIX RT3s produced in 1978 :-

1 For Salazar (c/no 160)
1 for Schafer (c/no 168)
4 for McCarty (Chuck McCarty, who was Ralt's Italian agent)

On the face of it this shows that the Ralt production summary, linked at the start of this thread, needs to be treated with caution........

I recall reading in a summer 79 A/Sport or MN of an RT3 in Italy (Edy Bianchi ???) so I'm not surprised at Adam's comment. I guess some of the 79 RT3 build may have been very late that year, so perhaps the list in the Lawrence book and above includes them in the 80 production run.

That list also says no RT4s were built until 1980, however Mallock definitely won the final UK Atlantic race at Brands in Sept/Oct 79 in an RT4, so at least 1 was made. Whether this car went abroad after I don't know, Adam ?? Maybe it was the one Alo L bought in mid 80, or perhaps the Leslie Hope Scott car from early 80.

[Adam F]

Dan,

As the Ralt list doesn't give delivery dates for 1979, it is possible that 3 or 4 of them were counted as 1980 in the Lawrence list, however two (Salazar's car and one for McCarty) were definitely delivered in the first half of 1979.

re. RT4s there is one listed as an RT4 in 1979......a F.Atlantic car destined for Robertson (the US/Canada agent) built in about July 1979. It is possible that this was a works prototype, used by Mallock in September 79 before shipping to the US. Otherwise the first RT4s were delivered in March 1980.

[fines]

Thanks Adam!

I'm 99 % certain that the Schäfer RT3 raced in late '79 already, driven by Georg Bellof (brother of Stefan), iirc. It was used as a spare car in 1980, and was sometimes refered to as the "79 car". Your info supports my memory!

Btw, do you think you could send me a copy of that Ralt chassis listing??? What are your sources? I know that one English mag (Motoring News?) published a listing of the first ~ 75-80 Ralt cars built around 1977/8. Someone have that?

[fines]

Also, isn't the name Chuck McCarthy?

[fines]

Originally posted by Adam F
...a F.Atlantic car destined for Robertson (the US/Canada agent)

I never made that connection before, although it seems so obvious: Brian Robertson, the North American Ralt agent, is that the same as the former (1972 I think) Atlantic champion?

[fines]

... and apologies to Karen Hyland for posting four times in a row!

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by fines

I never made that connection before, although it seems so obvious: Brian Robertson, the North American Ralt agent, is that the same as the former (1972 I think) Atlantic champion?

Same chap
I never quite worked out whether he was Canadian or from south of the line, though he was certainly based in Southern California in the late '70s

[RTH]

Originally posted by fines
Also, isn't the name Chuck McCarthy?

Yes I believe you are right , I sold him a car in 1985 and that's the spelling I remember too.

[Adam F]

Michael,

I've PM'd you re. the Ralt list.

My brief records/memory do remember him as Chuck McCarty - he drove an F3 GRD in Italy in 1972/73, and he was then involved with one of the Italian F2 teams (?Everest) in the late 70s/early 80s. He was from memory an expat American with a crew cut.
The Autosport Ralt chassis list (31 March 1977) also lists him as McCarty.
However Richard's transaction seems to prove otherwise..........

[bschenker]

1970 Chuck McCarthy has worked for himself on inside of the Bellasi Workshop ad Novara, any idée how I can find him today.

[Frank S]

Chuck McCarty was a San Diego racing person pre ex-pat.



Phil Binks told me he now lives on the Isle Of Man.

[jde]

Originally posted by Coogar
Come to think of it I can also recall seeing some 'sports racing' RT4s fitted with flat six 2-strole (outboard-based ?) engines at a test session at Lime Rock. I never really found out much about them but they certainly made an interesting noise......

Jeff Miller of Wisconsin has been running a "WynnFurst" (apparently a converted Lola) in SCCA C Sports Racer for several years with a six-cylinder two-stroke Kohler creation. I believe it's 3 opposed 2-cyl units mated together.

http://sports.racer....furst/page1.htm

-jde

[fattogatto]

Originally posted by David McKinney

Same chap
I never quite worked out whether he was Canadian or from south of the line, though he was certainly based in Southern California in the late '70s

Brian is Canadian but a transplanted one. Lived in Torrance, California for many moons. Now, I believe, he spends part of his time elsewhere. My recollection is that he got the first two official RT-4s just in time for Long Beach in 1980. One was red and one was blue - driven by Little Al and Danny Sullivan. According to lore, any RT-4s before those were actually RT-2s that were converted. I actually owned one at one time that had the chassis plate listed as an RT-2 with that struck out and RT-4 stamped in. Derek Harling now has that car.

Interesting that this thread has not mentioned the fair number (24 IIRC) of Elant Chassis that were purportedly produced in SA.

[nikhil]

Salazar's RT3 at the Ralt factory - RT3 - chassis #2 [?]
with Toleman F2 tub left and RT1 in foreground



RT3 nearing completition - Norm Smith right and a visiting David McMillan [USA & NZ]



Midnight at the RAT factory - Mike, Karen & Richard Wilson,Ron Wasley & Norm Smith



Set up time - Richard Wilson [in car], Norm Smith spannering



Salazar on song with jammed side skirts



Sovereign Racing Transporter [ex Derek Warwick] outside Gomm Metalcraft, Old Woking



Salazar testing ex Paul Bernasconi RT 1 at Brands

[Vicuna]

Norm 'Fingers' Smith = used to 'Hustle' a FF fairly quickly...

[nikhil]

and this gem

[Vicuna]

He's still selling used cars in Christchurch/

I've never dealt with him but know lots of peoplw in Chch who deal with him again and again.

Good bloke is Norman.

[dereklola]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nikhil
[B]Salazar's RT3 at the Ralt factory - RT3 - chassis #2 [?]
with Toleman F2 tub left and RT1 in foreground


QUOTE]

Above was posted on Dec 26 - I've only just seen it. Nikhil - sorry to disagree but I think both cars in the background are RT2s. Look at the length of the fuel cell box and angle of the roll hoop rear diagonals. Also wasn't the RT3 fuel cell box much lower - about the same height as the main side panels? Unless of course the very first RT3s were just RT2s modified.

(5 minutes later!) - in fact look at your own pics of the complete Salazar RT3 which shows the different roll hoop design. This picture then seems to show two RT2s, or at least the tubs, being built at the same time. The first two, RT2-152 and RT2-153, appeared as finished cars quite a bit apart but maybe the tubs were started together.

Great pic - do you know when it was taken?

Derek Harling

[ralt12]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Coogar
Come to think of it I can also recall seeing some 'sports racing' RT4s fitted with flat six 2-strole (outboard-based ?) engines at a test session at Lime Rock. I never really found out much about them but they certainly made an interesting noise......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That would be me.


This was a RT-5 based C/Sports Racer with an AMW flat six. It was a proprietary crankcase made by a fellow named Andy Allen in Spartenburg, South Carolina in 4 and 6-cylinder forms. That car lowered the C/SR record at Lime Rock from 55 and change to 52.237. The following year David Thompson returned with a similar car and lowered the record into the 51's, but his AMW had a significant exhaust change from the 3-into-1 pipes we were both using when the record first dropped. He went to an expansion chamber system for each cylinder, and hp went from about 200 to roughly 260. That was the year I converted the car back to Pro Super Vee specs and ran F/A with it.
The picture about is practice at Pocono, where it also set a record, it being the first time the north course was run for National purposes, lowering the regional record by 6-odd seconds despite only completing 1 timed lap, crashing when (of all things!) the throttle shaft in the throttle body seized--- in the rain, so the resulting tank slapper was a rude introduction to the high bank walls of the first turn. The following day, we couldn't fix the tub in time, so we were out of luck for the second National. It was fast, though.

[275 GTB-4]

I note that 1976 Ralt RT1 Chassis No.27 is now for sale in the UK.

For more details please contact Alan Hicks 01736 757673 - Mob:07786 227327

[cosworth bdg]

When did this Forum become a medium for advertising used racing cars ?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
When did this Forum become a medium for advertising used racing cars ?

What a waste of a post PN...this whole website is about information, the Ralt RT-1 up for sale can now be tracked by those interested in the subject of chassis location....try not to be so narrow minded

[David McKinney]

If you're not trying to sell it, 275, why mention all the selling points?

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by David McKinney
If you're not trying to sell it, 275, why mention all the selling points?

Thanks for the support David, regards PN.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
When did this Forum become a medium for advertising used racing cars ?

http://forums.autosp...hp?s=&forumid=6

and archived as far back as December 31st 2004

[Adam F]

Evidently the administrators of this forum do not agree with you.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Adam F

Evidently the administrators of this forum do not agree with you.

Mick edited his own post, Adam.