88 replies to this topic

[perfectelise]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/stor...1242756,00.html

Beverley Turner has a dig. Can't say I blame her.

[Dudley]

Except that she was crap.

[perfectelise]

She was given crap asignments.

[JForce]

She sounds very very bitter.

I'd be interested to hear Bira's POV as a female journalist in the paddock.

[djned]

i dunno, she makes valid points about sexism, commercialism etc although i don't think this in itself is new news.

it's also hard to be sympathetic with some of the spiteful, petty, childish things she says in that piece. it sounded to me like there was a deeper motive behind it, she sounds quite vengeful. i dunno.

it's also hard to take her seriously when she did spreads for mags like fhm: http://www.fhm.fr/fh...&id=ADME-5TVNS5
she says she didn't want to do them? well why did she?

that said her anecdotes were pretty compelling, i'd like to read the book.

[fingers]

Ask them why there's pitbabes everywhere before wondering about the attitude toward a good looking woman like Beverley Turner. Supply and demand that's all there is to it. Why is there a always pitbabe sections/pictures on most sites and magazines ?

[bira]

Being a woman and a Formula One journalist, I dare say I know a little about this topic and all I can say is that Ms. Turner is a hypocrite and an opportunist.

What were her credentials for the job? Why did she apply for it? She was not a motor racing fan or expert, she knows nothing about F1, she got the job because she's good looking. She applied to it and got it based entirely and solely for her looks. And then she's surprised she got a sexist welcome? If she cares so much about how she's grasped by others - maybe she should apply for a job that doesn't sell her as a "tits and arse" package next time.

The worst claim in this trash book is that Flavio Briatore grabbed her elbow one day and told her "you're having lunch with me today".

Elbow! Lunch! How is the man still walking freely in society?!?

[EvilPhil]

Originally posted by bira
Being a woman and a Formula One journalist, I dare say I know a little about this topic and all I can say is that Ms. Turner is a hypocrite and an opportunist.

I think Bira’s post sums that up absolutely perfectly.

Slightly OT: I am not sure what its like presently in other countries, but in the UK the ‘Equal Opportunities’ and ‘Anti-Discrimination’ acts have gone soo far that they are in some cases causing more damage than good in my opinion. Like in this example as Bira rightly points out, if all is equal and everyone is now employed on merit of skills and experience then Beverly Turner wouldn’t have even been given an interview for that job at ITV. She knew she was taking advantage of ‘her assets’ when she was employed and now she is sacked she is blaming it on sexism when in fact if it weren’t for a little ‘red blooded sexism’ she wouldn’t of got the job in the first place. A clear example of someone taking advantage of the ‘system’, and as Bira says she is an opportunist and has then blamed her failure on the one thing that got her the job, so she is a hypocrite as well or incredibly naïve (which I doubt very much ;)).

[PhilKerr]

Bev Turner is just a bimbo, knows as much about F1 as I do about astro physics so why should she expect to be taken seriously in the paddock ?

if ITV want a female who knows her stuff then why didn't they go for Ann Bradshaw or someone ? no instead they went for Turner so she should just shut up and be grateful that she did something that every female F1 fan dreams of - go to every race at someone else's expense

[perfectelise]

that's pathetic

[Haribo]

Which bit?

From what I saw of Bev Turner, she was asked to do articles about the "lifestyle" of F1 drivers and their entourage. How she can attempt to compare herself to Louise Goodman I don't know, but the fact of the matter is that ITV employed a good looking woman to act all flirty flirty with the F1 drivers (some of her pieces before the races were almost vomit inducing). If she couldn't see what she was employed for, then she is blind, stupid or both.

[clown]

Originally posted by bira
Being a woman and a Formula One journalist, I dare say I know a little about this topic and all I can say is that Ms. Turner is a hypocrite and an opportunist.

What were her credentials for the job? Why did she apply for it? She was not a motor racing fan or expert, she knows nothing about F1, she got the job because she's good looking. She applied to it and got it based entirely and solely for her looks. And then she's surprised she got a sexist welcome? If she cares so much about how she's grasped by others - maybe she should apply for a job that doesn't sell her as a "tits and arse" package next time.

The worst claim in this trash book is that Flavio Briatore grabbed her elbow one day and told her "you're having lunch with me today".

Elbow! Lunch! How is the man still walking freely in society?!?

Well put

[Scorg]

Just to add, I don't believe she was sacked, she left as she was pregnant and never came back.
Also I believe her husband is a high up level producer or director for itv.

[Davebo]

Originally posted by bira

Elbow! Lunch! How is the man still walking freely in society?!?

That dirty elbow fetishist...

[indigoid]

I'm sure it's a coincidence that that URL no longer gives you the article, but an error page instead

[clown]

^ Just delete all the crap after the .html

[perfectelise]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Haribo
Which bit?
[/QUOTE]

The abusive post that was before my last, but which has now been removed.




From what I saw of Bev Turner, she was asked to do articles about the "lifestyle" of F1 drivers and their entourage. How she can attempt to compare herself to Louise Goodman I don't know, but the fact of the matter is that ITV employed a good looking woman to act all flirty flirty with the F1 drivers (some of her pieces before the races were almost vomit inducing). If she couldn't see what she was employed for, then she is blind, stupid or both. [/QUOTE]


Like I said they were crap assignments. ITV should be broadcasting live from the pits/paddock during pre-race.

She is no less suited to F1 than Jim Rosentale or Lenny Kravitses brother.


P.S.
Her husband is an Olympic rower.

[Scorg]

Originally posted by perfectelise


P.S.
Her husband is an Olympic rower.

Ahh ok, ta for the correction, i'll just blame my info on James Allan

[Teez]

Originally posted by bira

Being a woman and a Formula One journalist, I dare say I know a little about this topic and all I can say is that Ms. Turner is a hypocrite and an opportunist.

It would be interesting if either you and/or Ann Bradshaw would write a proper review of Turner's book... I figured Beverly was being a hypocrite, but I was hesitant to make up my mind until I heard another POV from a woman in F1.

[Teez]

Originally posted by indigoid

I'm sure it's a coincidence that that URL no longer gives you the article, but an error page instead

Just an error in the original post. The correct URL is:

http://observer.guar...1242756,00.html

[Davebo]

What a hypocrite this woman is.

Having never heard of this person, I searched for information on her after reading the news article linked. The hilarious part is that she puts down the 'Pit Babes' and 'Brolly Dollies', and 99% of the pictures of her I found on the Internet were, well, Pit Babeish... (I invented a word!).

[masterhit]

Bev turned her back as soon as she met her boyfriend.

It is total hypocrisy. It is obvious she never gave a damn about F1. And therefore she was only employed because she was a bit of fluff in the first place.

[kismet]

'His behaviour was offensive and completely unacceptable from a pot-bellied man in his fifties who should frankly know better.'

Yeah, it's annoying when that happens. Instead of hunky male models sporting well-defined six-pack abs and impeccably chivalrous manners, you get approached by old pot-bellied gits who don't seem to understand that you're way out of their league. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Anyway, Mrs Turner may actually have a point, but I found the way she's presenting her case so incredibly unsympathetic that I ended up not wanting to side with her. She comes across as a total bitch, of the petty and vindictive variety that I really don't have time for.

[KinetiK]

That article is hilarious!

Her very presence was resented because she hadn't 'earned' it. 'I got it from men and women,' says Turner. 'For a long time, I couldn't work out why everyone went quiet every time I walked into a room. I won't pretend it wasn't upsetting. Naively, perhaps, I always think if I walk into a predominantly male environment where there are other women I can count on them as my allies, and I'm always shocked and disappointed when that doesn't happen.'

I can't tell whether she's naive or just being sarcastic!

[jonpollak]

Originally posted by perfectelise
She is no less suited to F1 than Jim Rosentale or Lenny Kravitses brother.

So Lenny is at Imola today and called me to say...WHO THE HELL SCHEDULES THIS DAMN TOUR I SHOULD BE AT INDY!!!

Swirving... Back On Topic:

I have to come clean here.

I met Bev on a few occasions and found her to be a lovely and sensitive soul.
She IS a sports reporter and worked with ITV on the NBA coverage they attempted to produce for 2 years.
We met in San Antonio over the course of 3 weeks of Spurs home games.

She was groomed by ITV to be the 'lifestyles' reporter and thought she would give it a go.

With what she had to work with, she did a respectable job
(havng no real interest in Motor Racing...just like Jim Rosenthal)..

But by the sound of what she wrote, she was done wrong by those in position of power.

That does not mean I condone the muckraking on offer...
But I have a feeling she is done with the whole deal

All the best Beverly
Jp

[RTH]

The ITV mob do not get any better, Kravitz said the Mercedes engine does not have any camshafts, Allen said as the race ended it was Sato's first 'Pole position' and clearly Rosenthal does not know the meaning of the word superb

[Dudley]

Originally posted by bira
[B]Being a woman and a Formula One journalist, I dare say I know a little about this topic and all I can say is that Ms. Turner is a hypocrite and an opportunist.

All I needed to hear. Cheers Biranit

I was going to use her colleague louise as example. She doesn't seem to get this because she knows the sport, she's worked for a team, she has the qualifications to be there.

Whereas Turner was what my dad would call "A soppy tart".

The worst claim in this trash book is that Flavio Briatore grabbed her elbow one day and told her "you're having lunch with me today".

and did she see it as the chance for an exclusive interview? no. and that's why she shouldn't be there.

[Suzy]

From my encounters with Beverly Turner it struck me that she relied on the two assets beneath her neck to get her jobs.

Her first words on ITV F1 coverage were "Here I am in Monaco. I don't know anything about motor racing and I'm going to the Grand Prix Ball". Cut to Beverly exposing as much of her chest as she possibly could for the duration of the feature.

In fact, all she ever did was stick her chest out; she wasn't given "intelligent" features because she wasn't intelligent enough to carry them out.

And she claims that F1 is sexist. Perhaps she shouldn't have dressed like a tart then!

[RTH]

Harsh but fair.

[perfectelise]

Originally posted by RTH
The ITV mob do not get any better, Kravitz said the Mercedes engine does not have any camshafts, Allen said as the race ended it was Sato's first 'Pole position' and clearly Rosenthal does not know the meaning of the word superb

Mark Blundell mentioned left- and right-foot braking in a chat with Jim Rosenthal before the race, at which point JR asked for a clarification of these terms. Then, as so often happens, JR made a football (his preferred sport) analogy "so it's like a footballer using his left or his right foot then". I suppose the show needs its smarmy anchor person but there's no need for this infuriating half-witted crap. F1 is the most technical of sports but unfortunately ITV are terrified of alienating the casual viewer with technical talk. Bev Turner's presence was a symptom of this effort to chase viewing figures, and she got her fingers burnt.

[MuMu]

She finds it amusing that F1 drivers are smaller than basketball players.
Like, wow

[Buttoneer]

Ok well here's an easy one for you all.

Why don't we have semi-nude muscle men holding the numbers in front of the cars or the umbrella's?

Can anyone give me a good reason why we don't have a 50:50 slpit of bimbo's/himbo's doing that job? If not for the reasons of pure sexism? Frankly, I'd rather they were just properly dressed.

She might be complaining a bit too much considering her position, but she has a point which most of you here seem to be missing, and which needs to change if F1 is to move it's attitudes into the 21st century.

[andrimitum]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
but she has a point which most of you here seem to be missing, and which needs to change if F1 is to move it's attitudes into the 21st century.

http://www.notonlywo...EVERLEY/009.jpg

What was her point again???

[HJK]

Originally posted by bira
Being a woman and a Formula One journalist, I dare say I know a little about this topic and all I can say is that Ms. Turner is a hypocrite and an opportunist.

What were her credentials for the job? Why did she apply for it? She was not a motor racing fan or expert, she knows nothing about F1, she got the job because she's good looking. She applied to it and got it based entirely and solely for her looks. And then she's surprised she got a sexist welcome? If she cares so much about how she's grasped by others - maybe she should apply for a job that doesn't sell her as a "tits and arse" package next time.

The worst claim in this trash book is that Flavio Briatore grabbed her elbow one day and told her "you're having lunch with me today".

Elbow! Lunch! How is the man still walking freely in society?!?

Good post , but I hope you're not trying to tell us that f1 drivers and managers aren't, by-in-large, sexist? And that its not an insular world, with tiny jockey-like pilots, that is totally reliant on sponsors? I mean Turner might be a hypocrite and opportunist, but aren't her criticisms of the sport still valid?

[bira]

I don't believe she's qualified to pass judgement on Formula One, that was my entire point. She has no professional skills to do it, and her position to begin with put her at the wrong vantage point. You can't position yourself as a Pit Babe and then complain that you got treated as a Pit Babe.

Is Formula One sexist? Probably far less today than it used to be. I would say it's more elitist or snobbist than sexist. People in the media with exceptional understanding and/or intelligence, be they men or women, get accepted and make it into F1 far smoother than people who lack either knowledge or skills.

In Formula One, whether you are a man or a woman, you're guilty of not belonging until proven otherwise. They propagate exclusivity and elitism, rightly or wrongly, and that applies to everyone in the paddock - drivers, engineers, press officers, hospitality workers, photographers, journalists.

Because of the nature of this sport, you see these people for about 16 weekends a year and you see each other in what is really a very stressful and long drawn situation, where everyone's there to work. So it's testing.

I do not believe it's harder for a woman than a man to get into Formula One media. There are hundreds of female journalists. Beverly Turner was not a journalist in my book but even as a TV presenter, she's not alone - there are probably more than a dozen doing a job similar to her.

It's not easy to get Ron Dennis or Patrick Head or Flavio Briatore to take you seriously, give you answers because they want to and not because they have to, and to treat you as a peer. But it doesn't require Y chromosome to achieve it.

[I_hate_chicanes]

Bira's a woman? That's news to me!

[Sakae]

Originally posted by I_hate_chicanes
Bira's a woman? That's news to me!

I have made the same mistake some time ago.

[jondoe955]

...Kravitz said the Mercedes engine does not have any camshafts

Give him a break! He probably meant crankshafts

[Jacaré]

Originally posted by MuMu
She finds it amusing that F1 drivers are smaller than basketball players.
Like, wow

In the interview they were discussing whether F1 drivers have sex appeal, and both thought it laughable

[zfh10]

Originally posted by RTH
The ITV mob do not get any better, Kravitz said the Mercedes engine does not have any camshafts, Allen said as the race ended it was Sato's first 'Pole position' and clearly Rosenthal does not know the meaning of the word superb

What the heck is that camshaft comment about?!?!! I went 'ehh??' when he said that!

[zfh10]

Originally posted by bira
You can't position yourself as a Pit Babe and then complain that you got treated as a Pit Babe.

Sums it up really.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Ok well here's an easy one for you all.

Why don't we have semi-nude muscle men holding the numbers in front of the cars or the umbrella's?

A lot of men, and I believe a lot of women actually find those weight lifter types quite repellent to look at.

The female form is aesthetically pleasing to men and perhaps in a slightly different way to women in a way the male form just isn't, and women can look every bit as good in closely tailored clothes, so its not just about being semi-clad.

Semi-nude men on the grid ? for me at least a ghastly idea !

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by andrimitum



http://www.notonlywo...EVERLEY/009.jpg

What was her point again???

Clearly way over your head.

The charge of hypocrisy that has been levelled at her is just tacit acceptance that two wrongs make a right. That isn't the case. The sexist attitudes that got her the job in the first place are the same ones she is complaining about, true. But are you saying that both are OK? Are you saying that just because someone who gained from the situation complains about it, then their point is invalid?

That is like saying that Tony Benn has no right to be in the labour party campaigning for higher taxes for the rich because he is wealthy. It's like saying that Emmiline Pankhursts husband had no right to help her to set up the Womens Franchise League and campaign against men only institutions because he is a man. It's like saying that Tony Blair has no right to run a manifesto including an equal age of consent because he's not gay.

It is arguable that the drivers themselves are the equivalent eye candy for women or gay men, but I've yet to see them getting undressed for the podium.

We live in a world where women are able to get management and control positions at the very highest levels of all industries, not always on equal terms with men, granted. Even Soccer has women in control positions; Norwich City Football Club has got Delia Smith. But Formula 1 is an anachronism. It is run by men, it's marketing effort is aimed at men, and it is presented for the benefit of men. Otherwise there would be no jobs for people like Beverley Turner.

[Zac]

I see your point Buttoneer but, as a female F1 fan for quite a few years, the only sexiest element of F1 that has ever really annoyed me was the employment of Beverly Turner who was obviously only there for her looks. However, even if she does have some solid reasons for feeling hard done by (and I don't see any in that article) it's hard to feel sympathetic when she comes across as so bitter and petty (and when she had a job that I'd kill for! )

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by RTH


A lot of men, and I believe a lot of women actually find those weight lifter types quite repellent to look at.

The female form is aesthetically pleasing to men and perhaps in a slightly different way to women in a way the male form just isn't, and women can look every bit as good in closely tailored clothes, so its not just about being semi-clad.

Semi-nude men on the grid ? for me at least a ghastly idea !

I bet there's a lot of people who would disagree with you regarding the aesthetics point. But that's not the issue. let's have a selection of Brad Pitt-alikes or George Clooney-alikes or David Beckham-alikes then. They don't have to be muscle mary's at all.

But why can't we have the rather more dignified situation that we had at Bahrain more often? Lets have 20 people picked from a suitable industry in the host country? Or we could have 20 children who earned bravery awards last year holding the banners, or 20 firemen who risked their lives last year, or just 20 competition winners whe get the chance to do something that otherwise they would be unable to do?

There are plenty of people who would love to become part of the circus for a day and who would bring a damn sight more dignity to the event than a bunch of bikini-clad models.

This is just an example of something that could so easily be changed for the better without significantly impacting on anyones enjoyment of the race spectacle. It would also give Flav less chances to leer, which must be a good thing for the future of mankind.

[Suzy]

She chose to dress the way she did. Nobody forced her to wear skimpy tops and low cut dresses which flaunted her cleavage and her body. Tops which bared her midriff, halterneck tops which made her chest stick out even more. And she would walk with her chest sticking out. It used to be a joke that all of Bev's interviews were along the lines of "Hello, I'm Beverly. I know nothing about motor racing but look at my tits!" She dressed like a pit lizard; therefore she was treated like a pit lizard.

I would see Beverly strutting around when she wasn't even doing anything to camera - she was wearing her normal clothes. Normal clothes being a short skirt, high heels, skimpy top which showed off her chest and bare midriff. And that is the pit lizard type of woman that I meet in all areas of motorsport. It's a select minority who look as if they are there for only one thing and that is to screw drivers. I see it in lower levels of single-seater racing - they are referred to as "paddock bikes". Even if they are not there to screw around, they dress in a provocative way that makes them look as if all they want is to get into the nearest motorhome. Appearances are deceptive but first impressions count for so much.

Louise Goodman manages to look smart-enough regardless of the temperature and she's also an intelligent woman. That's why Louise is highly respected in motorsport (and not just F1 either). It's also common knowledge that she holds a racing licence at a high level in the UK, she's competed against people in motorsport in karts, race cars and rallying and beaten them on merit (I've watched her do it several times in various types of cars) and she understands the technical stuff. She is trusted by the drivers; I know that Jacques Villeneuve would talk to her when he wouldn't talk to anybody else because he trusted her. That's a crucial feather in her cap!

As her sulk about Eddie Irvine... oh come on Beverly! If you knew anything about motorsport you would know that Eddie only does anything because of the women involved. He's got a playboy repuation to live up to and I can't believe that he would be taken seriously. Ditto with Flavio Briatore.

[Jacaré]

Originally posted by Zac
... the only sexiest element of F1 that has ever really annoyed me was the employment of Beverly Turner who was obviously only there for her looks.

the emphasis on looks in the employment of female television journalists is common to all kinds of television programs -- it's not a problem unique to F1 or sports journalism. However ITV took it one step further by requiring Turner to pose for FHM, instantly making her image as a Formula One grid-girl, and everything she did after that confirmed the image. The grid-girl stereotype is unique to F1 -- what happened to Turner in F1 didn't happen to her in the years she spent covering NBA.

[Suzy]

If I recall correctly, she was doing a lot of scantily-clad photoshoots a long time before she she started working for ITV. Has she had a touch of selective memory and left her career as a "glamour" model out of her book?

[kismet]

Originally posted by Jacaré
However ITV took it one step further by requiring Turner to pose for FHM, instantly making her image as a Formula One grid-girl, and everything she did after that confirmed the image.

Surely she could and should have declined if they expected her to do something that so clearly goes against her moral code?

[MuMu]

If she was required by ITV to pose for FHM and behave like a bimbo, surely her beef (for want of a better word) should be with ITV and not with F1?