95 replies to this topic

[lühr]

Less than 10% of the Atlas F1 traffic have screen resolution of less than 1024 wide. We felt it was time to cater the majority and utilise that space.

I still disagree, as you are making the presumption that all users who have a _sceen_ resolution of 1024 px wide (and above) maximise their browsers windows.

Someone mentioned that no other website has moved to high resolution. Never mind that this alone is not true (off the top of my head, the Washington Post does)

Not entirely correct that statement, as 'the Post' displays their _main_ content in the left 2/3 of a 800 px wide window, so as to cater for those who don't (or can't) use wider windows. This is a trend on many 'big' sites (). Besides, CNN, BBC, New York Post etc. still uses 800 px wide pages...

Atlas F1, in my opinion, is nevertheless the best one-stop source for F1 related material, but the move to 1024 px width seems ill thought through.

[FordPrefect]

I Hate it!!

Why no advance warning? It was a shock!

It's tooooo different I had to read to see where I wanted to go!

The Bulletin boards aren't on the left anymore I kept clicking on Don Capps before I realized what had happened.





















;) I love it, finally a page that takes advantage of my resolution, it looks very clean yet does a great job of presenting everything that Atlas has to offer. Will the new search engine let you search within a thread? Some threads are quite long and that could be very helpful.

Great job by one and all

[bira]

Originally posted by lühr
[B] 'the Post' displays their _main_ content in the left 2/3 of a 800 px wide window, so as to cater for those who don't (or can't) use wider windows.B]

Which is exactly what we do as well

[Pine]

I think it's pretty good, but not perfect.

The top is great, it looks very good and feels like Atlas. But the more I scroll down, the less I like the way it looks.

I think the photo gallery part is a bit out of place. The thumbnails are too small to appreciate the quality of the pictures, and I would consider a change in the selection policy of the images in the front page - not the latest ones uploded, which seems to be the case now (or at least this is how it looked a few hours ago when it was all Jordan yellow and ugly as hell!) but the best pictures of the last few days.

The search and Forix parts don't looks very good, too many drop-down menus for my taste but I can't think of a better way to do it.

And one last thing: if you could somehow align these headlines, I think it would look better:



It looks good at the top where they are aligned, and at the Daily Grapevine part where it's nowhere near any other, but looks awkward when the boxes are just a few pixels apart. Nitpicking, I know.... :

[ill_ninio]

I love atlas, but I don't like the new page.
Can't you get back the old page, for the users that don't like it? So you can choose? Like the case is with Forix...

[bira]

Originally posted by Pine
And one last thing: if you could somehow align these headlines, I think it would look better:



It looks good at the top where they are aligned, and at the Daily Grapevine part where it's nowhere near any other, but looks awkward when the boxes are just a few pixels apart. Nitpicking, I know.... :

It is dynamic and therefore there's no point trying to align the boxes. You'll see it will change almost every week, especially when, for example, there's more or less columns or features in the magazine; and there's going to be a live (i.e. constantly updated) 5-day forecast for the weather added today or tomorrow.


I should also point out that there's a slight difference between different systems, based on the fonts used and screen resolution.

On my screen, what you showed above looks like this:




And, to complicate things even more, when I log in (as a subscriber), the subscription box is shorter and therefore the area you pointed to would look like this:






So the boxes can't be statically aligned.

[bira]

Originally posted by ill_ninio
I love atlas, but I don't like the new page.
Can't you get back the old page, for the users that don't like it? So you can choose? Like the case is with Forix...

the old FORIX page is no longer updated. Likewise for the old Atlas F1 page. In our case, it is even more impossible, as the old frontpage was edited largely manually, so I'm not willing to continue do that and maintain two pages.

There are alternatives, as I said in a previous post. You can either use My Atlas, or use the News index page, or get used to the new frontpage

[ill_ninio]

Originally posted by bira


the old FORIX page is no longer updated. Likewise for the old Atlas F1 page. In our case, it is even more impossible, as the old frontpage was edited largely manually, so I'm not willing to continue do that and maintain two pages.

There are alternatives, as I said in a previous post. You can either use My Atlas, or use the News index page, or get used to the new frontpage

Ah, that explains a lot Too bad, if you ever need a webmaster I know a thing or two about it ;)
Anyway, I guess i'll try my atlas, or the news thingy! Still a bloody good websie

[Alfisti]

Not a massive fan myself. It is too wide for start as my lousy PC i sstuck on 800*600.

I never understand this theory of "well most users have advanced" sure, just like dial up versus cable ... but the "newer" version REALLY shits those still forced to use older specs ... like sites designed for cable annoy the hell out of those on dial up.

Atlas' big advantage apart from content is a lack of clutter, and this frontpage has lots of it.

I will need to fiddle with my Atlas to get it to look how I want, but I can't help feeling there is a lot on that frontpage we just don't need.

[bira]

This is effectively the same thing you said three years ago, when we changed the frontpage from this to this. So no offense 'Fisti, but if your taste and immense dislike for any change at all was to become a factor, Atlas F1 would still look like this

[Juan Taco]

Just looking at what Atlas looked like a few days ago makes me sad.

The old one looks so much better, sorry - nothing about compatibility, nothing about changing designs, it's just ugly. The old one looked far more professional.

Sorry, just my opinion.

I'm not sure how your system works, but could you offer a choice to users?

[bira]

Juan Taco, see my response in post # 57

[Jordan191]

there's a new frontpage ?

[NFI]

Well, the new front page looks nice, but the old front page did too. Unfortunately, the new front page does not suit me because it is designed for a wider browser window than I use.

Screen resolution statistics can be a bit misleading. For instance, I run at 1600x1200 but size most windows to be 800 pixels wide (and full height, minus an allowance for Windows' task bar). That way I can see two "full" pages of whatever I'm working on concurrently, side by side. I do not run browser windows wider than 800 pixels, ever. It just doesn't suit the way I work, and the way I want to organise my available screen space.

AtlasF1 is an excellent site and I fully respect the owners' right to do whatever they want with it. However, I really wish the front page was coded to adapt to the size of the viewer's browser window, not just be based on an assumed minimum width. (Actually, I wish ALL web pages were coded that way. And yes, I have a fair idea of what's involved in doing that, even with dynamic content and dynamically generated pages, since it's what I do myself.)

For now, AtlasF1's new front page just means that I won't use anything in the rightmost column unless enough shows in the first 70 pixels to be useable.

At least I can still read all the articles... I'd kick up a REAL stink if I couldn't!

---

P.S. Bira, thanks very much for your message explaining the goals of the change. User interface design always involves compromises, but it's nice to get direct confirmation that issues of concern were examined thoroughly (even if the final direction taken doesn't suit me personally).

I looked at My Atlas when it was introduced and couldn't make it show what I liked where I liked, but I will give it another go. (Although most likely I'll still do what I indicated above, i.e. use the standard front page but ignore the rightmost column. Still wish it was coded to adapt to browser window width, however!;))

[cadwal]

Originally posted by bira
For example, someone mentioned that there must be a horizontal line missing under the forums names. Trust me, there isn't. We tried it. It looked out of place, and it made the threads list look "homeless" - as if we forgot to put a title to it.

But the gray line that is there now looks good to me at least.


One other thing though, I seem to remember that the "Grand Prix Info" box used to have something like "It is now xx:xx am/pm in yyyyyyyy" at the bottom?? That was a big help to me in finding my local time for any event not on television.

[tinman]

hi Bira. Kudos to the new frontpage. But could you bring back the link indicating the local time for the grandprix. I used to base on it to keep track of the grandprix weekend and now its gone. thanks in advance

[babbel]

For those people missing the local time:

Click on the GMT+2 link on top of the french gp schedule. It will show a popup with the times in your local format.

[tinman]

gee thanks Babbel. Didn't bother to click on the link the first time tho. I think its better now with the local time and all. thanks.

[Jan Johansson]

I like the new format very much . That's not saying I didn't like all the previous ones, right up from the first one, because I did. But all living, breathing web sites have to evolve and strive forward, and that's just what Atlas has done. So everyone, just embrace it and feel very lucky - I don't know any other special interests web site that offer so much for so little.

/neworld

[Alfisti]

Originally posted by bira
This is effectively the same thing you said three years ago, when we changed the frontpage from this to this. So no offense 'Fisti, but if your taste and immense dislike for any change at all was to become a factor, Atlas F1 would still look like this

Just be careful, Atlas has 2 major things going for it .. excellent writing/articles/magazine and a lack of clutter on the site.

I just opened the site on my wok PC, it is a very nice front page and easy to use. It's just too damn wode for a lot of PC's out there.

[Alfisti]

Originally posted by NFI
Well, the new front page looks nice, but the old front page did too. Unfortunately, the new front page does not suit me because it is designed for a wider browser window than I use.

We've no had what, 10 people have issues with the width?

[Sakae]

Little late to the party, but puting up the effort in the first place to spruce up the house is welcomed, and result is pleasant. Ecellent job!

[Hellenic tifosi]

I like the fact that Atlas never takes anything for granted and keeps on improving. However, I don't see any reason why someone would visit the front page when we have my.atlas.

Honestly, this is perhaps the best thing I have seen on the web: Fully customizable, lots, of content, easy to use, great design.

What more can you say?

[Pioneer]

Originally posted by babbel
For those people missing the local time:

Click on the GMT+2 link on top of the french gp schedule. It will show a popup with the times in your local format.

Why can't it do that automatically? Popups suck. That means I have to turn off my popup blocker. I liked it fine the old way where it simply gave the local time at the bottom of the schedule.

Frankly I think the new page looks like ass. Theres way too much junk on there that I never use and in particular the forums are way down at the bottom and stuck out in the middle of the page...

Actually since 90% of the time I go straight to the forums anyway I don't know why I bother to have a subscription... so this gives me an excuse not to renew.

You know the saying.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Ric Bol]

Excellente changes.
Congrats!!

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by bira
And when we moved to the previous design, people were complaining and saying it was terrible and demanded the old design back - so we maintained the magazine index as the old design throughout those years. Nowadays, no one uses it anymore as their frontpage. So obviously even old habits eventually die.

Hello

I rarely use the frontpage, I go either to the magazine (which I liked best), or to the forums.

With the frontpage now much more refelcting the magazine, (and having a much better layout imo), I think I might actually start using the front page from now on.

All in all, I think it's a great design, and yes, there's also stuff I would ave done differently, but I think it's the best compromise to cater the most common user here.

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by lühr
Atlas F1, in my opinion, is nevertheless the best one-stop source for F1 related material, but the move to 1024 px width seems ill thought through.

There was a time when having 800x600 was the best thing next to sliced bread. And there was loads of moaning and groaning by the 640x480 users when suddenly an application turned 800+.

I think using 1024 nowadays as the lower limit for optimizing content is the thing to do. It's not a bad thing to at least be a little considerate to 800 users (such as putting most essential content left/top), but that's as far as it goes. With such a design, allowing text to wrap, columns to scale etc is simply not an option as it becomes but ugly.

1024+ is the way to go as I see it, and why won't people maximize (or size somewhat bigger) their screen? When I open Atlas, I do that for more than just a quick glance. It's not as if I want to quickly click on the window, and then click on another window to start working there, click back on the Atlas window, etc. It's like complaining a newspaper is too big as you refuse to let go of the habbit of reading it with one hand. Tough luck.

[The Vulcan]

It is a refreshing change that needs getting used to. Good job!

[AutoGrafica]

Yes, I think it looks great too.
Just what a Formula 1 Newspaper should look like.
Professional.

[NFI]

Originally posted by Mosquito
... why won't people maximize (or size somewhat bigger) their screen?

Because they want to see more than one thing at a time.;)

For example, at 1600x1200, I usually have two 800x1170 windows displayed side-by-side, each of which might show things like a database console, or a file manager, or a text editor, or a file difference tool, or a spreadsheet, or a word processor (I get a fully-readable full A4 page in that size window), or even a browser or three, and so on. It's quite common for me to have all of those running and in use at any given point in time, and I often use several of them together (e.g. use the text editor while referring to the database console, use the word processor while referring to a spreadsheet or another full-page word processing document... or browse the web in short bursts when I'm mostly working on something else).

The only things I run maximised are a few programming language IDEs, and they don't really count because while the overall environment takes the whole screen there are many child windows visible within it.

Using maximised windows when you use many programs concurrently is very inconvenient, frustrating and slow. It's like trying to use a computer with your hands tied behind your back so you have to type with your nose. And I think it's just as messy too.

(And in any case, if I did maximise my browser window, at 1600x1200 there'd be an overly large amount of whitespace down either side of the Atlas front page . Not that whitespace is bad, but if you've got so much of it there are better layouts than having all your content all jammed together in the middle of the screen.)

Originally posted by Mosquito
When I open Atlas, I do that for more than just a quick glance. It's not as if I want to quickly click on the window, and then click on another window to start working there, click back on the Atlas window, etc.

When I open Atlas, or any web site, what I want to do is effectively exactly what you said you don't want to do. Not everyone uses browsers and computers the same way. I am in the minority regarding the number of programs I use concurrently, but I know a fair few people who come close.

Originally posted by Mosquito
It's like complaining a newspaper is too big as you refuse to let go of the habbit of reading it with one hand.

Newspapers are too flipping big unless you can lie them on the floor.
I don't bother with them at all. That's what the web's for anyway, isn't it?

Originally posted by Mosquito
Tough luck.

I can live with it. After I've had my whinge. Now I just gotta persuade somebody to make a notebook with a 15" 2048x1536 screen so I can stick with my usual arrangement and still see the full front page.;)

[LB]

All I can say is thank god for MyAtlas

[PhilKerr]

Preferred the old design but I will get used to this one

[wiligates]

It looks good . Although it appears i'm in the minority (?) who have to scroll across to see everything .

[D. Heimgartner]

I don't like the new design. The old design was very much more pleasant to look at. Now it's like someone just decided to throw everything at a wall.

I took a journalism course once in high school, and they covered layouts and stuff like that. And I totally don't remember any of the rules or guidlines, but I bet that the new frontpage is breaking some of them.

Anyway, keep up the excellent coverage!!!

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by Pioneer


Why can't it do that automatically? Popups suck. That means I have to turn off my popup blocker.

If your popup blocker doesn't allow you to disable it for certain 'trusted' sites I suggest you get a new one.

If in the past website owners spent all their time listening to the vocal few who don't like change then we'd all still be using text based websites with Lynx. Not to mention bira has given some very viable alternatives for people with older hardware running at ridiculously low resolutions. I like the design.

[Jeff]

I think I like it. Maybe a lot.

It surprised me at first, but after a few days I find myself liking the direct - one click access to where I want to go.

Keep it up. I'm a serious fan - I've got 13 F1 sites in my favorites, and Atlas is the first page I go to. It is also the only page I pay for. I guess that means I'm voting with my billfold.

Any other pages a member would recommend to me?

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by NFI
I can live with it. After I've had my whinge. Now I just gotta persuade somebody to make a notebook with a 15" 2048x1536 screen so I can stick with my usual arrangement and still see the full front page.;)

There's easier ways to go blind if that's what your aiming for.

And yes, I agree to your other point that in certain cases it's easy if you have 2 windows open next to each other. Mine are often SQL Query analyzer, the .NET IDE, and the internet explorer or an application I am debugging. But Atlas is unrelated to any other window, so there is no need for me to have it visible concurrent with other windes. I read it, or I don't. So it's minimized (or sent to the back) or full in my face.

Oh well, at least we can all whine about it. Of all the alternatives, I think this is the best one so far.;)

[JForce]

My only comment is that it makes us MyAtlas users the poor cousins

I like it, but as I don't use it I guess my vote doesn't count.

I now wish MyAtlas had a redesign :

[bira]

Originally posted by JForce
I now wish MyAtlas had a redesign :

Stana shwayeh ;)

[Jackman]

Yom asal, yom basal

[Pine]

Mish fahem...

[bira]

yalla yalla, you understand perfectly

[JForce]

Originally posted by bira


Stana shwayeh ;)

I knew I should have kept taking Hebrew in school :

[bira]

It's Arabic, actually. It means have patience

[CevertInBlue1973]

Im shocked..this place is great......I only found it after a mad half drink racing fan mumbled something about it at a race weekend.......But Im glad he did in all his drunk ravings....this place is cool.......Keep up the good work guys and gals ..........this place rocks!!

By the way if anyone finds my sanity can they please send it back my brains getting lonley since my mind left..........

Good tips : Keep your mind on the road and your hands on the steering wheel and such...but If you see Racing Driver on the road.....for christ sake get the hell of it!!!

[Nomad]

As an ex-subscriber I am considering re-subscribing but I'd like to know if the rest of the magazine and news has or will be going to the same resolution as the front page?

As I dont have a subscription its fairly irrelevant to me what the front page looks like. Provided it retains its textual feel Im ok with it.

Those of us with 800*600 because of our small monitors are quite willing to stop moaning if those commenting on our ancient equipment send a monetary donation so we can buy a new bigger monitor