95 replies to this topic

[MPea3]

I'm surprised this hasn't been raised before. If it has been, I missed it in my search.

Thinking about the sort of money it's always taken to get into racing cars, and how getting strarted on bikes is cheaper, I was led down the path of wondering about those who started out on bikes, achieved success, and made a successful transition to cars.

From this side of the pond, I've thought of Swede Savage, Joe Leaonard, and Ralph Hepburn. I seem to remember something about Kenny Roberts wanting to try cars, but I don't klnow if he ever did, and he certainly wasn't successful if he did. The most gifted road racer I ever saw on a bike, Cal Rayborn, I *think* was just starting a try at cars when he lost his life.

From Europe and the UK I can think of John Surtees, Bernd Rosemayer, and Tazio Numvolari. Hailwood is another, although I don't know that his car racing was that successful. Agostini's transition could not probably be considered a success.

And the Rodriguez brothers? Didn't they race bikes at a very early age?

[Twin Window]

Jean-Pierre Beltoise and Patrick Depailler spring to mind...

Giacomo Agostini had a go at cars, but didn't fare too well. His first test was in 1971 in a Frank Williams March 712 whle he was still a full-time motorcycle racer. Later that decade, after he'd retired from bikes, he raced in F2 with (IIRC) a Chevron, then in Aurora F1 with a Williams FW06.

SKiD

[Vitesse2]

Varzi, Beltoise, Muller, Ascari....

Gary Hocking would have turned out pretty well, if only ....

Bill Ivy too perhaps.

Omobono Tenni showed well in voiturettes and sports cars, but went back to bikes ...

[Vitesse2]

Forgot Jean Behra, who was a multiple French motorbike champion before moving to cars.

[D-Type]

Damon Hill started by racing bikes with some success

Johnny Gecotto would have gone on to greater success had it not been for the helicopter accident

Geoff Duke - not too successful

Reg Harris - but he bypassed having an engine in the bike

I'm not sure whether Kenya's Vic Preston counts as he drove cars and rode bikes at the same time

[angst]

Damon Hill.

How did Agostini go when he tested for FW in '71. Did he just get his timing wrong and start cars too late?

Marco Lucchinelli also tried F3000 in (I think) '86, but that didn't go too well. Wayne Gardner raced in Australian TCs with, as I remember, relative success.

[angst]

You beat me to Hill D-Type, but Goeff Duke reminded me, didn't Ken Kavanagh also race cars at some point?

[Twin Window]

And Johnny Cecotto... [edit] or is that who you meant, D-Type? If so, what helicopter accident was that, or are you mixing him up with Nannini?

Chopper accident or not, the crash that finished his F1 career was in practice at Brands for the '84 GP.



He was lucky, in that it didn't end more than just part of his career...

SKiD

[angst]

How could I forget....

The brothers Brambilla

[Doug Nye]

Piero Taruffi, Achille Varzi, Johnnie Lockett, Bob Anderson, Fergus Anderson, Uncle Tom Cobbley and so many more...

DCN

[Twin Window]

Barry Sheene tested an works F1 Surtees at Brands in '76 or '77.

And much more recently, both Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi have tested with Ferrari.

SKiD

[Jonas]

Hermann Lang also raced motorcycles before turning to four wheels. At least in the sidecar class..

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Twin Window
And Johnny Cecotto... [edit] or is that who you meant, D-Type? If so, what helicopter accident was that, or are you mixing him up with Nannini?

Chopper accident or not, the crash that finished his F1 career was in practice at Brands for the '84 GP.



He was lucky, in that it didn't end more than just part of his career...

SKiD

Yes

Memo to self: Check facts before posting!

[TFBundy]

Well I suppose Valentino Rossi yet might, just might become the only man to emulate Big John!

... but having read 'No Time To Lose' can someone tell me if Bill Ivy really was going to be the next big thing on four wheels or was there a degree of posthumous hype in the book?

[Twin Window]

I've not read any books on the subject, but just from what I've gathered through conversation, Ivy was the 'prototype' Barry Sheene.

Regarding Rossi, the smart money's on him having a proper shot at the WRC. Once he's won the MotoGP Championship with Yamaha and then Ducati, that is...

You heard it here first!!

SKiD

[LittleChris]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Fergus Anderson,..

DCN

I'd be interested to know more Doug !! On the basis of an article by DSJ back in1975, I eventually got to Floreffe last year, but know very little about Fergus, being more interested in the challenge rather than the people ( probably haven't put that very well ).

http://www.racingcircuits.net/

[David McKinney]

Keith Campbell tried cars at the same time as Kavanagh
Stanley Woods in the 1930s
Reg Armstrong
NZ Champion Syd Jensen

And, if you're counting speedway motorcyclists, NZ had Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs, Geoff Mardon, Bruce Abernethy, Merv Neil and a few others

[Jim Thurman]

From the U.S., in addition to Savage, Leonard and Hepburn, don't forget Joe Weatherly and Paul Goldsmith.

And, yes, Cal Rayborn had done a bit of 4 wheel racing and supposedly planned to switch to cars full time after doing the bike races in New Zealand

MPea3, do a search and you'll find Rayborn discussed in a few TNF threads.

Kenny Roberts did race cars, but quite informally. Each Winter, some of his colleagues and he would get together at the Roberts ranch near Hickman, California and in addition to running some bikes, raced beat up short track type Stock Cars (known as Bombers) on a dirt oval carved out on his property.

[David Shaw]

Gregg Hansford was a very successful bike racer in the 70's in Australia on a Kawasaki (number 02) before driving Ford Sierras for both Dick Johnson and Allan Moffat. He left us in a fatal accident at Philip Island in a Ford Mondeo when he was t-boned in the driver's door.

[gerrit stevens]

One of the last ones in a major racing series; Eddie Lawson.
BTW: most racers changed from 2 to 4 wheels. Were there any who went the other way.
I don't mean racers like Mike Hailwood who came back to 2 wheels.

Gerrit Stevens

[David Beard]

Stuart Graham?

[Gary Davies]

Well, perhaps not great on bikes ... :

Respectfully nicked from Life at the Limit

[john medley]

There was an entry for Bathurst Easter 1948 for a John Arthur Brabham on a 350 Velocette.

[GIGLEUX]

In France Roger Loyer too.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I've not read any books on the subject, but just from what I've gathered through conversation, Ivy was the 'prototype' Barry Sheene.

Regarding Rossi, the smart money's on him having a proper shot at the WRC. Once he's won the MotoGP Championship with Yamaha and then Ducati, that is...

You heard it here first!!

SKiD

Don't understand what you mean by "prototype Barry Sheene" Twinny.

At the time of his foray into Formula Two there were some incredibly praiseworthy remarks made by the likes of Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill certainly. The former rated Ivy as "the greatest natural talent" he had seen and is often still quoted as having said that.

Did any TNFers see Ivy's performance at the Easter Monday Thruxton ?

MCS

[Ren� de Boer]

Admittedly not quite what is meant here, but still worth a note IMHO: Alex Wurz was the 1982 world champion in cycle cross (BMX).

Belgian Didier de Radiguès started racing touring cars after his motorcycle career.

[Hugo Boecker]

Originally posted by LittleChris


I'd be interested to know more Doug !! On the basis of an article by DSJ back in1975, I eventually got to Floreffe last year, but know very little about Fergus, being more interested in the challenge rather than the people ( probably haven't put that very well ).

http://www.racingcircuits.net/

Fergus ANDERSON did some races with john Heath's HWM Team in 1950
His first 4 wheel outing was at Schauinsland Hillclimb neatr Freiburg.

06.08.1950 Bergrekord hillclimb Schauinsland 10th F2 Class
20.08.1950 German GP DNF
26.08.1950 International Trophy 7th in Heat DNF in final gearbox

In the International trophy he stayed in front of Moss in 6th position with a F2 car in a F1 field before his gearbox failed.

Sorry but I don't have any more 4 wheel races for him.


Even Caracciola started on 2 wheels and Taffy von Trips had several succesful outings on two wheels. His last race on 2 wheels was 24 Hours Versage (B) where he came 4th overall and 2nd in class with a 350ccm Tornax.

so long

Hugo Boecker

[Hugo Boecker]

Originally posted by Hugo Boecker
[Taffy von Trips had several succesful outings on two wheels. His last race on 2 wheels was 24 Hours Versage (B) where he came 4th overall and 2nd in class with a 350ccm Tornax.

[/B]

forgot to say

the date was 12.6.1954 !


so long

Hugo Boecker

[marat]

Jo Siffert raced motorcycles and was sidecarist (?).
Guy Ligier also raced motorcycles.

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by MPea3
I'm surprised this hasn't been raised before. If it has been, I missed it in my search.

Yeah, you missed it ;) The old thread is now in the archive section, but this topic is interesting enough to start a new thread IMHO.

Here's an interesting quote from the old one:

Originally posted by Karl Ludvigsen
I can't allow Alberto Ascari to be overlooked. He raced bikes from 1937 through 1939, scoring numerous successes, before starting car racing in 1940. Interestingly Bianchi considered building a special racing bike for him AFTER the war but this fell foul of squabbles in the boardroom.

[Alan Lewis]

Nello Pagani, 1949 World 125cc(?) Champion, twice winner of the Grand Prix de Pau.

APL

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by MCS


Don't understand what you mean by "prototype Barry Sheene" Twinny.

MCS

Well firstly, MCS, I can assure you that it was respectfully intended remark...

Barry was fantastic for all things two-wheeled, and - from what I've gathered over the years - Bill Ivy had many of the same credentials and attributes with which to attain a similar status to that which Sheene ultimely did, albeit Ivy was around earlier. Hence my use of 'prototype'.

In other words, it was a remark made in a positive vein whichever way you look at it.

SKiD

[MCS]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Well firstly, MCS, I can assure you that it was respectfully intended remark...

Barry was fantastic for all things two-wheeled, and - from what I've gathered over the years - Bill Ivy had many of the same credentials and attributes with which to attain a similar status to that which Sheene ultimely did, albeit Ivy was around earlier. Hence my use of 'prototype'.

In other words, it was a remark made in a positive vein whichever way you look at it.

SKiD

No problem - I was merely curious - I didn't think for one moment you were being disrespectful.

Just wish somebody would come back and tell us what they saw at Thruxton that day. From everything I've heard and read it was quite some performance from Ivy.

MCS

[Twin Window]

MCS

Yes, exactly; as I've learned, 'the boy was a bit special'...

Sadly, however, I wasn't there that day.

SKiD

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by LittleChris
Fergus Anderson - I'd be interested to know more ...http://www.racingcircuits.net/

Fergus Anderson made his name pre-war racing motorcycles from 1937-39. He resumed postwar and raced virtually throughout the late 1940s and on into 1954. He rode Guzzi, DKW, Norton, NSU, Rudge and Velocette machines and after a somewhat lacklustre debut 'on the Island' in the 1939 TT astride DKWs - in 1952 he set new lap and race race records there on his Moto-Guzzi, leading home team-mates Lorenzetti and Lawton. In 1953 he won the Lightweight TT again - breaking his own race and lap records - placed third in the Junior TT and went on to win the 350cc World Championship. He was widely respected and well liked as a senior rider on the scene, and in 1954 he rode his Guzzis in the Lightweight, Junior and Senior TTs and, despite indifferent results by and large there, he went on to take his second 350cc World title before announcing his retirement.

He was multi-lingual and was made competitions director of Moto Guzzi.

But he couldn't keep away from racing on occasion, and in 1956 "riding for fun" as he told his pals, on a 500cc BMW his luck ran out. He was killed racing on the Floreffe public road circuit. His death was greeted with similar disbelief and amazement to that in more recent years of the great Joey Dunlop. At the time of his death Fergus Anderson was 47.

DCN

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by MCS


Did any TNFers see Ivy's performance at the Easter Monday Thruxton ?

MCS

No I didn't, but this is what Motoring News had about his performance.


Even more amazing than Rindt however, was the performance of Bill Ivy. A month ago he crashed his Brabham in a private practice session at Oulton Park and a National Daily quoted him as saying, “I think I’ll go back to motor cycles.” Astonishingly, with an old engine (but the impetus of ex-Winkelmann Temporada-type wings), Ivy scorched round in 1m 15.4s to score second fastest time of the day. His style is smooth and it is difficult to believe that his last appearance at the wheel of a racing car in public was with an F3 Lotus at Oulton Park in 1965.

Ivy finished fourth in his heat behind Stewart, Beltoise and Graham Hill but retired from the final when his engine blew.

[275 GTB-4]

Kaptain Kaos is the unkind nickname given to World Champion Motorcyclist Wayne Gardner and later car racer. Good results in sportscars in Japan. Nothing really memorable in Australia.

[Ray Bell]

He did win a race or two, however...

Nobody seems to have mentioned Mick Geneve.

[AS110]

Aaron Slight would be one of the more recent riders to shift to cars

[Macca]

Terry Rymer, ex-BSB race winner and bike endurance champion, races trucks.

1993 500c bike champion Kevin Schwantz did some NASCAR and touring car races, which is mentioned in the old thread.



Paul M

[robert dick]

Georges Teste
René Thomas
Victor Rigal
Paul Péan
Cesare (or Joseph?) Giuppone
Léon Derny
Biagio Nazzaro
Amedeo Ruggeri
Pietro Ghersi
Luigi Arcangeli
Ernst Henne
Georg Meier
Guglielmo Sandri
Dorino Serafini
Georges Monneret

[ensign14]

Didn't Swede Savage start on 2 wheels? From where he brought his full-face helmet?

Also one time IRL winner Jeff Ward came from motocross.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by ensign14
Didn't Swede Savage start on 2 wheels? From where he brought his full-face helmet?

Also one time IRL winner Jeff Ward came from motocross.

Yes, Savage held an AMA expert plate.

[paulhooft]

And the greatest of all was someone called:


Tazio Nuvolari????

sorry about interrupting this discussion...

Paul Hooft

[SEdward]

Jacky Ickx started off on bikes, but I've no idea whether he could be described as a great on two wheels.

Turning things around, what about car drivers who switched to bikes? I can't think of any at all.

Edward.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by paulhooft
And the greatest of all was someone called:


Tazio Nuvolari????

...back at the top of the first page we find...

Originally posted by MPea3 to start this thread
.....From Europe and the UK I can think of John Surtees, Bernd Rosemayer, and Tazio Numvolari.....

Though something seems to have been lost in the translation...

Of course, the 'greatness' of those being mentioned has descended (in the main) since about the thirtieth reply... but I don't think there's any way you can say that Jacky Ickx wasn't great!

Nor could you say Mike Hailwood wasn't successful...

[MPea3]

so my typing sucks...

[SEdward]

Of course, the 'greatness' of those being mentioned has descended (in the main) since about the thirtieth reply... but I don't think there's any way you can say that Jacky Ickx wasn't great!

Sure, he was great in cars. What I meant to say was that I don't know whether his career on bikes merits that same accolade.

Edward

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Nor could you say Mike Hailwood wasn't successful...

At a particular Tasman Meeting at Warwick Farm, I was in absolute awe of Jochen Rindt the rainmeister, however, Mike the Bike was wringing the neck of his Surtees? Full lock every time around and so consistent.....I suppose it was either his approach or the shortcomings of the car compared to Rindt's Lotus?? Rindt showed mastery........Hailwood showed a racers guts and determination... magic, magic stuff...........me???? I was just transfixed!!!

[SEdward]

I always felt that Mike's ability as a car driver was underestimated. I thought that we was damned good. He should have won the 1973 International Trophy, he was the only driver to get anywhere near Fittipaldi in F2 in 1972 and he put in some fine drives in the M23 in 1974 before his accident.

Edward