13 replies to this topic

[my_own_shadow]

Continuing my questions I want to ask you about historic racing. Nowadays it become more and more popular, arising various historic series like EuroBOSS, TGP, become a tradition to hold every year a historic races like Monaco historic GP, Goodwood festival of speed, Long Beach historic race... But what about the past of historic racing, when was the first ever historic car race, how it was popular? I remember that in 1974 at Dijon-Prenois just before French GP there was a big historic meeting. Can you also told me about that one, for example provide me with information about the entry list, the winners. In 1979 at Macau was another historic race... Also I can remember about Aston Martin WDC cars that raced in many historic races almost after they became useless at the begining of the sixties...

[wibblywobbly]

I'm positive that there was a historic race at Laguna Seca, in 1969. Not sure if it fell under the "Monterrey Historics" banner, or not.

[David Birchall]

It depends what you mean by "Historic". The Vintage Sports Car Club in England began in 1934 with the requirement that cars be pre-1931 since it was felt that date signified the end of an era. Many of the early races featured cars with fairly prosaic backgrounds although Bugattis and Bentleys etc. were very cheap and available. In subsequent years/eras room was made for cars that arrived after 1931 that were considered significant due to competition history or quality or because enough people wanted to race them. The VSCC can be credited with starting Vintage/Historic racing.
Steve Earle started the Monterey Historics in 1974 IIRC. But it may have been a group that he was associated with, the Classic Sports Racing Group, that held the event in 1969.
David B

[my_own_shadow]

Thank you both!

[Ray Bell]

As far as I know, the first 'Historic' race (actually called something else including the word 'vintage' from memory) in Australia was at Warwick Farm on 14th October, 1962.

Won by Kevin Catt in a Lancia.

The first 'All Historic' meeting in Australia was at Amaroo Park in 1976, pre-empted by the ARDC's refusal to put on a race for these cars within one of their regular meetings because 'people don't come to see those cars!'

The meeting was an unqualified success, with a huge crowd, and was quickly followed by similar meetings in the other states, and I think all of those that sprang up in the wake of that meeting still continue to be held annually.

[David Birchall]

Why are there two of these threads?? :

[Ray Bell]

Simple computer problem... check the other one and you'll find out!

[my_own_shadow]

This morning I don't find the twin thread with the same title as this one. Instead of merging two threads, another one was deleted from this forum as I can see... But there were 10 more posts... It was our members's work and it was just deleted... Fortunately I saved that thread before it was deleted. Now I'll post all its posts as quotes.

Originally posted by Paul Taylor (03-Jul-04 17:58 GMT)
There have been historic and vintage meetings for many years now. I believe they have always been popular, as well!

My July 1950 Motorsport magazine talks about various Vintage events going on in that month, including a Speed trial for Vintage cars.

Originally posted by D-Type (03-Jul-04 18:02 GMT)
I don't think you can put a definite date to this one.

I have read of 'old crocks' races being held in the twenties.

In the fifties the (British) Vintage Sports Car Club was holding races for prewar cars such as ERA's as well as for 'Vintage' (i.e. pre 1931) cars and there was often such a race amongst the supporting races for the British GP or the TT

Originally posted by Frank S (03-Jul-04 18:26 GMT)
Add to your list of really-old-cars-in-action (most files are over 100K, some much bigger) :


Bothwell's Motorsport profile with a few shots from a 1950s event on streets in Santa Monica, California


Torrey Pines in Sports Cars Illustrated , showing Bothwell's cars posing then, and my photo of some of them early last month


One of my all-time favorites,Tom Cardin's photo at Pebble Beach, early 1950s


I understand there was some serious racing among these drivers, but I don't think there was an organized series.



Frank S

Originally posted by Roger Clark (03-Jul-04 19:15 GMT)
The Vintage Sports Car Club was founded in 1934.

Originally posted by David McKinney (03-Jul-04 20:06 GMT)
There were one-off ‘novelty’ races in many countries of the world in the 1950s, but Roger is right to mention the VSCC. That particular club was running regular events for old cars before the war, and continued in the 1940s. By the mid 1950s they were organising three meetings every year and, reinforcing Britain’s pre-eminence in the field, were soon joined by the Aston Martin and Bentley clubs with meetings of their own.
By the end of the 1960s, with the HSCC now in business as well, there were probably a dozen all-historic meetings in Britain every year, plus those supporting races at major ‘modern’ meetings as mentioned above.
As far as I recall, the first annual (as distint from occasional) meetings on the Continent were at Montlhéry and the Nürburgring, both of which were established in the 1970s, about the same time as the FIA got into the act with its international championships. Monza and Zolder got into the act pretty quickly, too.
Again relying on memory, I think Laguna Seca was the first US circuit with a regular historic-racing fixture, also dating from the 1970s.

Originally posted by marat (04-Jul-04 05:47 GMT)
In France it really begun in 1964 when Serge Pozzoli organised the first Grand Prix de l'Age
d'Or at Rouen (where Jim Clark drove Lindsay's ERA as related by Vitesse2). Most of the
competitors came from Britain and interest grew only when the meeting was definitely
held at Monthlery.

Originally posted by my_own_shadow (04-Jul-04 17:37 GMT)
Again thank you, Paul, D-Type, Frank, Roger, David and marat. What about the details of historic race at Dijon-Prenois back in 1974?

Originally posted by Ray Bell (04-Jul-04 23:14 GMT)
Am I wrong, or does this thread need merging?

Did you post this thread twice by accident, shadowed one?

Originally posted by my_own_shadow (05-Jul-04 00:24 GMT)
Yes Ray, I had some problems when I posted it.

Originally posted by Ray Bell (05-Jul-04 01:04 GMT)
It happens... Don will fix it when he notices.

an interesting topic, of course. The other aspect is that cars that have only achieved anything notable at all in the latter day racing are gaining value because of those successes rather than what they did 'in the period'...

[my_own_shadow]

Frank S, can you check the first two links in your reply?

[Frank S]

They work OK for me. Here they are, pristine and unadorned:

http://www.fototime....E5B386C173DD28D Motorsports

http://www.fototime....B78A7D955176892 SCI

http://www.fototime....86B9E5/orig.jpg Tom Cardin's photo

[my_own_shadow]

All is Ok, thank you

[cabianca]

The Sports Car Club of America was originally founded in 1944 to preserve vintage sports cars. At the time, many were being broken up in the hysteria of war-related scrap drives. At the time of founding, racing was not part of the SCCA agenda.

In the US, Henry Austin Clark ran a vintage event each year at Bridgehampton beginning with the first race on the old street course in 1949. This tradition was continued when the purpose-built Bridgehampton course was opened in 1957.

Lindley Bothwell provided the complete field for a series of vintage races in California beginning at the one mile Del Mar horse track (also used for cars) in 1949. Bothwell's circus, which was composed of World War I era cars, raced on many of the classic California road courses including Torrey Pines, Pebble Beach, Riverside and Laguna Seca as well as AAA/USAC ovals like Del Mar and Pomona.

The American version of the Vintage Sports Car Club was begun in 1958. In July, 1959, a speed event was held at Thompson Raceway. It was a series of match races with two cars in each event. Mass start racing did not begin in the VSCCA until the early 1960s.

The Monterey Historics were first run in 1974. By then there were vintage races run in conjunction with SCCA events in many parts of the country, including, as has been mentioned, at Laguna Seca.

Before Steve Earle, these events were run for the enjoyment of the participants. Earle wanted the public to be aware of the racing tradition world-wide and made the event educational as well as fun. As his event grew in stature, he was able to convince many manufacturers and collectors to bring cars to America that were never seen here when they were new. 30 years on, it just keeps getting better and better.

[David Birchall]

Originally posted by cabianca
[BBefore Steve Earle, these events were run for the enjoyment of the participants. Earle wanted the public to be aware of the racing tradition world-wide and made the event educational as well as fun. As his event grew in stature, he was able to convince many manufacturers and collectors to bring cars to America that were never seen here when they were new. 30 years on, it just keeps getting better and better. [/B]

Yes Steve Earle deserves a huge amount of credit for the popularity of Historic racing in N.America.
Without the Monterey Historics Historic racing over here would be many years behind Historic racing over there...

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by cabianca
The Sports Car Club of America was originally founded in 1944 to preserve vintage sports cars. At the time, many were being broken up in the hysteria of war-related scrap drives. At the time of founding, racing was not part of the SCCA agenda.

In the US, Henry Austin Clark ran a vintage event each year at Bridgehampton beginning with the first race on the old street course in 1949. This tradition was continued when the purpose-built Bridgehampton course was opened in 1957.

Lindley Bothwell provided the complete field for a series of vintage races in California beginning at the one mile Del Mar horse track (also used for cars) in 1949. Bothwell's circus, which was composed of World War I era cars, raced on many of the classic California road courses including Torrey Pines, Pebble Beach, Riverside and Laguna Seca as well as AAA/USAC ovals like Del Mar and Pomona.

The American version of the Vintage Sports Car Club was begun in 1958. In July, 1959, a speed event was held at Thompson Raceway. It was a series of match races with two cars in each event. Mass start racing did not begin in the VSCCA until the early 1960s.

The Monterey Historics were first run in 1974. By then there were vintage races run in conjunction with SCCA events in many parts of the country, including, as has been mentioned, at Laguna Seca.

Before Steve Earle, these events were run for the enjoyment of the participants. Earle wanted the public to be aware of the racing tradition world-wide and made the event educational as well as fun. As his event grew in stature, he was able to convince many manufacturers and collectors to bring cars to America that were never seen here when they were new. 30 years on, it just keeps getting better and better.

Thanks to the those in the past with the foresight .....Halleluja!!!!