232 replies to this topic

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Does anyone else feel so? This domination by Schumacher and Ferrari is really damaging the sport. I mean 9/10 race wins isnt good for the sport. Sure it pads Schumacher's record but these days the wins are effectively 'gifted' to him. He turns up, drives the car and wins the race. Minimum effort, maximum reward. I feel like a hypocrite for this post but i think the majority of people are starting to agree with me now; Ferrari and MS have made F1 into their own monopoly and in consequnce have damaged the sport. Viewing figures are way down (AGAIN) and i just gave up watching and put my playstation on. The results have become predictable and frankly, boring. I know we cant change the outcome or effect the rules or anything, but we can make our opinions heard. I'm at the point now where i am actually screaming like an idiot whenever Button/Sato/Trulli/Alonso and others seem to be doing well, i get excited at watching my team's rivals race each other. I'll always be a Ferrari fan but it doesnt mean i have to jump with joy everytime they win. I love the sport more than i love Ferrari.
Opinions?

Aj

[Nav-D]

Its not that its just that theres no overtaking at the front. MS chose to pass in the pits by stopping 4 times. He could have just overtook Alonso as he clearly had a faster car but he didn't.

[troyf1]

I'm not exactly thrilled with the domination of Ferrari/MS but in the end it's up to the other teams to catch up. Ferrari are doing exactly what they should be doing and shouldn't have to apologize for it.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Nav-D
Its not that its just that theres no overtaking at the front. MS chose to pass in the pits by stopping 4 times. He could have just overtook Alonso as he clearly had a faster car but he didn't.

It's nothing to do with the overall results that occur within the race itself. It's the end result = MS wins (again) that draws people away from it. If we had more winners, or different rules or something then we would have a better sport, as such its become a bore fest and needs to be rectified otherwise this domination will hurt the credibility of the sport. I dont think F1 has ever been this boring in its history?

[JForce]

If you think that all MS did today was turn up and drive the car and that his win required no effort then I suggest you actually watch the race rather than your playstation.

[JForce]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001


It's nothing to do with the overall results that occur within the race itself. It's the end result = MS wins (again) that draws people away from it. If we had more winners, or different rules or something then we would have a better sport, as such its become a bore fest and needs to be rectified otherwise this domination will hurt the credibility of the sport. I dont think F1 has ever been this boring in its history?

You're looking at it wrong. There is nothing wrong with F1. There is however a fundamental flaw in every team that isn't Ferrari.

They've already changed the rules because Ferrari won. You want them to change them again?

[ffiloseta]

Why, Oh Why, instead of posting this kind of comments, bored people got themselves something else to be entertained with?

How boring, they say. Yet they keep coming back for more. Maybe they think that if they post enough of this comments, F1 will magically change into what they wish.

Oh well...

[Nav-D]

Originally posted by JForce
If you think that all MS did today was turn up and drive the car and that his win required no effort then I suggest you actually watch the race rather than your playstation.

I don't spend 2 hours of my sunday actually caring about how much effort f1 drivers put in, they get paid shitloads and aren't working nearly hard enough for it.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by JForce


You're looking at it wrong. There is nothing wrong with F1. There is however a fundamental flaw in every team that isn't Ferrari.

They've already changed the rules because Ferrari won. You want them to change them again?

Why not? I mean if thats what it takes to make the sport interesting again then by all means do it. I did watch the race, it was a 4 stop for MS, and he never really looked challenged after lap 33. At the end of the day, we all know who is going to win and that is MS. I dont mind him winning but if he wins in a boring way as today (ie thru strategy) then it just shows that F1 is not about racing anymore and more dictated through fuel loads etc. I knwo it isnt Ferrari's fault but at the end of the day, people dont care about that, they see the end result of another Schumacher win and think 'wow, what a suprise(!)' So in that sense yes it has become a bore-fest.

[Umpire]

At times it has been too easy, but you can't argue that MS didn't fight for today's win.

You'll have to be more angry with Alonso. I can't believe he was doing low 1:17's when in the previous stint on similar fuel load he was capable of 1:16's.

And as far as Ferrari domination is concerned - just read my signature.

[HJK]

2003 was a blast. 2004 is 2002 redux, except more extreme. The seasons pretty much done, and since I dont care about watching MS make 'history' (mainly because its not history. someone posted that people remeber Julius Ceaser because he made history, no one remembers the record breaking chariot drivers' names because they did not make history; great analogy BTW).

Most normal fans have switched off by now. Even the BB is getting dull, as fewer non ferrari types are posting; and there is less of interest to post about. I am giving up the sport till 2005, when Max's new rules kick in.

I hope everyone has a good summer and winter.

see y'all in 2005,
hjk

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by ffiloseta
Why, Oh Why, instead of posting this kind of comments, bored people got themselves something else to be entertained with?

I did entertain myself. I put on my playstation. lol

[Torquer]

Originally posted by Nav-D
Its not that its just that theres no overtaking at the front. MS chose to pass in the pits by stopping 4 times. He could have just overtook Alonso as he clearly had a faster car but he didn't.

Lets be serious here. It isn't that he didn't want to pass, he couldn't pass. Aero Dynamic downforce is the plague of F1. Choosing to pass in the pits was MS only option. If they could pass on the track they would, trust me.

[ffiloseta]

Not that it did you good: you still had to post this thread ;)

[CONOSUR]

Anyone who thinks this race was boring needs their head examined...

[JForce]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
Why not? I mean if thats what it takes to make the sport interesting again then by all means do it.

But then you are artificially changing the result, rather than leaving it up to the participants. Sounds like NASCAR.

[flyer72]

The only exciting thing that happened during this race was Barrichello ovetaking Jarno... That isn't a whole lot.

F1 is so boring at the moment.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by ffiloseta
Not that it did you good: you still had to post this thread ;)

Exactly my point. If F1 was remotely interesting then i,alonng with others, wouldnt have to voice our opinions in such a 'stern' manner. As such we do, because i would like to watch an exciting Grand Prix rather than play my PS2, but im forced into that sort of situation because i would rather pull my own teeth (slight exaggeration there) than watch the Ferrari steamroller dominate in such a way.

[Chris G.]

I consider ice skating to be boring as ****. I don't watch it. But damn if I'm not constantly posting on the ice-skating boards about how boring it is. A little game I play.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by JForce


But then you are artificially changing the result, rather than leaving it up to the participants. Sounds like NASCAR.

Leaving it to the participants creates the bore-fest that comes on every other Sunday we see now. If it is artificially changed and creates excitement again then i dont think the viewing public will mind so much because it has given them reason to be excited again. The sport is more important than the domination of one team. I think everyone will agree with that one.

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Torquer


Lets be serious here. It isn't that he didn't want to pass, he couldn't pass. Aero Dynamic downforce is the plague of F1. Choosing to pass in the pits was MS only option. If they could pass on the track they would, trust me.

No they wouldn't, even if they could. Overtaking is a risk regardless of having aero or not, why bother risking anything at all when you can pass in the fuel stops?

The solution is simple, ban refuelling and reduce aero, the they would HAVE to look after their tyres and pass on the track. Tyre's should be what wins a race, not fuel stops. Fuel stops however mean effectivly "free" tyre changes. If refuelling was gone then conserving tyres and using racecraft would be what mattered, and all those things come down to one man, the driver.

It makes me sick how the most important man in an F1 team is now the fuel strategist. . . .

[Tuxy]

Originally posted by flyer72
The only exciting thing that happened during this race was Barrichello ovetaking Jarno... That isn't a whole lot.

F1 is so boring at the moment.

I can think of something that's getting even more boring....repeating these comments over and over again. Stop complaining go watch something else. Try sleeping in for a change, perhaps that will cut down on the bitching we have to endure.

[Chris G.]

I think I'm going to go watch some equistrian events. I consider it about the most boring thing in the world. But, if I don't go I won't be able to bitch about it.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by troyf1
I'm not exactly thrilled with the domination of Ferrari/MS but in the end it's up to the other teams to catch up.

Every time they do, the rules change.

Q.v. tyregate.

Q.v. removal of magnesium or manganese or whatever it was from engines.

[Maranello Man]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
Does anyone else feel so? This domination by Schumacher and Ferrari is really damaging the sport. I mean 9/10 race wins isnt good for the sport. Sure it pads Schumacher's record but these days the wins are effectively 'gifted' to him. He turns up, drives the car and wins the race. Minimum effort, maximum reward. I feel like a hypocrite for this post but i think the majority of people are starting to agree with me now; Ferrari and MS have made F1 into their own monopoly and in consequnce have damaged the sport. Viewing figures are way down (AGAIN) and i just gave up watching and put my playstation on. The results have become predictable and frankly, boring. I know we cant change the outcome or effect the rules or anything, but we can make our opinions heard. I'm at the point now where i am actually screaming like an idiot whenever Button/Sato/Trulli/Alonso and others seem to be doing well, i get excited at watching my team's rivals race each other. I'll always be a Ferrari fan but it doesnt mean i have to jump with joy everytime they win. I love the sport more than i love Ferrari.
Opinions?

Aj

Aj...you're not a fan...change your Ferrari tag and give it to someone who knows what's up

The French GP was awesome today..MS spotted the rest a pit stop...RB started tenth and finish third passing trulli on the very last lap. You are Lame dude.

[JForce]

Originally posted by ensign14
Every time they do, the rules change.

Q.v. tyregate.

Q.v. removal of magnesium or manganese or whatever it was from engines.

Berellium.

And after 2002 they changed most of the rules to stop Ferrari. That's why they were changed.

Still, MS and Ferrari won.

So what's next?

[RX-7]

Originally posted by Tuxy


I can think of something that's getting even more boring....repeating these comments over and over again. Stop complaining go watch something else. Try sleeping in for a change, perhaps that will cut down on the bitching we have to endure.

Thank you !! How bored can you be...That you have to post how boring you find something? I would turn off the T.V. if I was that bored. Stop crying about it! I was not bored at all. If you are looking for excitement,watch Moto Gp today at 3pm eastern.That will fix your wagon!

[slick1jayj]

Originally posted by ensign14
Every time they do, the rules change.

Q.v. tyregate.

Q.v. removal of magnesium or manganese or whatever it was from engines.

Tyregate...Mich...was on the edge.
How long has McLaren had to recover from that? How many rules were changed, to try to stop Ferrari? They just do a better job adapting of the rules.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Maranello Man


Aj...you're not a fan...change your Ferrari tag and give it to someone who knows what's up

The French GP was awesome today..MS spotted the rest a pit stop...RB started tenth and finish third passing trulli on the very last lap. You are Lame dude.

Man you're just a nuthugger. Are you that blind to see that Ferrari's domination is ruining the credibility of the sport, or are you wearing those rose tinted glasses? Maybe my angst is partly due to the **** race coverage by Director Andrey Doopidu but to call me a hater is just ridiculously stupid. The race was very boring on ITV, maybe that explains my anger because all we saw for the first 30 laps was Alonso - Schumacher - Alonso - pit - alonso etc etc etc. If we had better coverage and better access to race scraps i wouldnt have to bitch. Also, to say that Schumacher's domination isnt hurting the sport, man, you have got to be a a serious Michael/Ferrari nuthugger. Monaco was the best race of the season. 2003 was also the best season too. 2004 is a continuation of 2002 = ie; crap.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by JForce

And after 2002 they changed most of the rules to stop Ferrari. That's why they were changed.

Still, MS and Ferrari won.

So what's next?

To me they proved counter-productive. The one rule change that screwed Ferrari was allowing Michelin to tailor tyres to individual teams. That had allowed Bstone-Ferrari to get an advantage.

The qualifying rules worked for Ferrari cos Montoya's blinding one-lap speed was nullified. Otherwise he would have had more poles.

And the points changes worked in Ferrari's favour, paradoxically, because although the gap from 1st to 2nd narrowed the points rules assisted consistently finishing - where Ferrari excel.

[Maranello Man]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001


Man you're just a nuthugger. Are you that blind to see that Ferrari's domination is ruining the credibility of the sport, or are you wearing those rose tinted glasses? Maybe my angst is partly due to the **** race coverage by Director Andrey Doopidu but to call me a hater is just ridiculously stupid. The race was very boring on ITV, maybe that explains my anger because all we saw for the first 30 laps was Alonso - Schumacher - Alonso - pit - alonso etc etc etc. If we had better coverage and better access to race scraps i wouldnt have to bitch. Also, to say that Schumacher's domination isnt hurting the sport, man, you have got to be a a serious Michael/Ferrari nuthugger. Monaco was the best race of the season. 2003 was also the best season too. 2004 is a continuation of 2002 = ie; crap.

Where do you live? I'm here in Miami and watched Sppedvision...They have ads at the wrong time but Varsa, Matchett, and Hobbs did a pretty good job (although Hobbs has brain farts at times).

I'll forgive you this time

[benn5325]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

I think everyone will agree with that one.

No. Go and watch the race again

[boyRacer]

oh look more whining...

if you dont like it dont watch it.

maybe you should go study hard in school and become a technical director so you can go help out those teams that are making F1 pathetic as you say... instead of pointing the blame at the team winning. i suppose its trendy nowadays to blame the winner instead of the losing teams... heh.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Maranello Man


Where do you live? I'm here in Miami and watched Sppedvision...They have ads at the wrong time but Varsa, Matchett, and Hobbs did a pretty good job (although Hobbs has brain farts at times).

I'll forgive you this time

I'm in the UK bro, the coverage was pretty awful (note the threads dedicated to coverage today). But i do feel that entire domination of the sport hurts the sport. If it was exciting throughout then people wouldnt mind but afew races this season have been boring, thus the feeling of boredom manifests itself to other people thus creating these threads to be posted.

[Maranello Man]

Originally posted by slick1jayj
Tyregate...Mich...was on the edge.
How long has McLaren had to recover from that? How many rules were changed, to try to stop Ferrari? They just do a better job adapting of the rules.

If they really go ahead and change the engine formula to 2.4 liter 8 cylinders...I will bet Ferrari will still find a way to dominate

[Mox]

*Yawn* This continuing discussion has become incredibly boring

If this topic should have any validity, it would be focused on the poor performance of teams like McLaren and Williams who have failed miserably in their attempt to close the gap.

You can't blame Renault and BAR - they are only jus arriving at the scene, and they have proven that it is possible to improve quite massively. They will likely continue to do so. But in a season where both McLaren and Williams bring out "radical development" and fail to make it work, that is where the boredom lies.

There, and with the FIA continuously trying to change things to make them more "entertaining", while completely failing to understand that what is needed to make the teams competetive is continuity over a longer period of time, so that it is indeed a question of development not constantly adapting that makes the difference.

Scrap all the stupid rule-changes, all the weird qualifying formats and parc fermé regulations. Lock down the technical regulations for a longer period of time and let the engineers work!

The only thing that needs to be adapted is tracks. Stop dwelling on the importance of "traditions" and develop tracks that conform to the needed safety standards will providing the type of layout that will make it possible for the modern F1-car to really race.
We know it can be done. We saw that at Bahrain, at Sepang, even at Indy. We need more tracks that are specifically designed to provide overtaking possibilities. We don't need old tracks full of chicanes at every 500m to keep the speed down and removing any chance of effective drafting or different lines through the corners.

[slick1jayj]

Originally posted by Mox
*Yawn* This continuing discussion has become incredibly boring

If this topic should have any validity, it would be focused on the poor performance of teams like McLaren and Williams who have failed miserably in their attempt to close the gap.

You can't blame Renault and BAR - they are only jus arriving at the scene, and they have proven that it is possible to improve quite massively. They will likely continue to do so. But in a season where both McLaren and Williams bring out "radical development" and fail to make it work, that is where the boredom lies.

There, and with the FIA continuously trying to change things to make them more "entertaining", while completely failing to understand that what is needed to make the teams competetive is continuity over a longer period of time, so that it is indeed a question of development not constantly adapting that makes the difference.

Scrap all the stupid rule-changes, all the weird qualifying formats and parc fermé regulations. Lock down the technical regulations for a longer period of time and let the engineers work!

The only thing that needs to be adapted is tracks. Stop dwelling on the importance of "traditions" and develop tracks that conform to the needed safety standards will providing the type of layout that will make it possible for the modern F1-car to really race.
We know it can be done. We saw that at Bahrain, at Sepang, even at Indy. We need more tracks that are specifically designed to provide overtaking possibilities. We don't need old tracks full of chicanes at every 500m to keep the speed down and removing any chance of effective drafting or different lines through the corners.

Very well stated.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by slick1jayj
Tyregate...Mich...was on the edge.
How long has McLaren had to recover from that?

Not enough. By September the 2004 cars had been designed. To run on the old tyres.

Look at BAR. They are doing very well for a team that changed tyres. But they had a car designed to use the narrower tyres Michelin is now forced to make.

If they really go ahead and change the engine formula to 2.4 liter 8 cylinders...I will bet Ferrari will still find a way to dominate

Very likely. They have the most money so they can try 10 things where Minardi can try 1. And even Renault could only try 8. Although if they threw away the rule book and invented a formula where you had to run 2 litre turbo engines with enclosed bodywork and no pooters - i.e. throw out most of the accumulated wisdom - Toyota would also have a shot.

There, and with the FIA continuously trying to change things to make them more "entertaining", while completely failing to understand that what is needed to make the teams competetive is continuity over a longer period of time, so that it is indeed a question of development not constantly adapting that makes the difference.

Bingo, one of the most competitive seasons ever (1982) came after the rules had been essentially untouched for 16 years. But for a probably illegal exploitation of the regs to allow turbos, who knows how long it would have lasted?

As it is, had the tyre rules not been changed late last year, I bet McLaren and Williams would be a LOT further forward than they are now.

[howardt]

Sure there have been some dull races, but that was NOT boring. If you thought so, then you prefer playing playstation, and you're probably also the type that prefers to drive the wrong way on VROC because it's "less boring".

What you just saw was a stroke of genius from Ross Brawn, changing tactics on the fly to an unprecedented 4-stop race in response to an unfolding situation. It was a strategy change that demanded huge amounts of performance from Michael, and he delivered - putting in fastest lap pace for lap after lap in order to build the margin he needed. That was a masterclass in F1.

And to those who think Michael only has to sit in the car to win - I actually think it is bloody FANTASTIC that now there are other teams who are really pushing Ferrari. That win was not a given, it was all going Alonso's way. It took sheer brilliance from Brawn & Schumacher to turn that around. I don't like to see the same guy win every race, but they really *earned* that one.

So I award a to Renault for taking the fight to Ferrari, and two to Ferrari for responding in the best possible way.

Only complaint is not a whole bundle of on-track passing, but Rubens earned himself one of these as well for trying to rectify that.

Now then - come on Williams, you've introduced a bundle of aerodynamic changes, and you've been leapfrogged by Mclaren and left behind by BAR and Renault. You guys get a "must try harder" smilie (anyone got one ??), and JPM -. well - you're given a new team-mate, and who is it that makes the dumb rookie spin to lose a hatful of places. C'mon. You get a


Boring race ? - go and watch it again.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Mox
The only thing that needs to be adapted is tracks. Stop dwelling on the importance of "traditions" and develop tracks that conform to the needed safety standards will providing the type of layout that will make it possible for the modern F1-car to really race.

The best tracks are some of the oldest ones. Monza - take out the chicanes & let's see what they can REALLY do. Spa. Silverstone. Even Monaco, even though you cannot overtake if you make a mistake you are out, no harmless gravel trap trips.

There are dozens of better tracks in France alone than Mangy Bores. All older.

There are a good few better tracks than the new Ring in Germany. There's an older one quite close to it.

As for safety standards...I am wondering whether they have gone too far. No-one wants to see drivers killed or seriously injured. But you can try banzai moves that have no chance of success knowing you are not going to get any penalty. There should be a way you can artificially increase risk - if you go into a gravel trap you have a 1 lap penalty, or if you have a shunt you have to miss the next race or whatever. With some thought something can be done to re-introduce the funambulistic element of the sport.

[Captain Cranckcase]

F1 is in trouble you can close your eyes and pretend it isn't but it is. Todays race felt complete hollow it was devoid of any atmosphere or tension. Most of us started following F1 because it was an "action" sport, but right now it falls somewhere between golf and lawn bowls on the entertainment scale. Something needs to happen to inject life into the sport again, sure we've had dull periods before but never for such a prolonged period. Ferrari should really consider bringing in a motivated young teamate with equal rights for the good of the sport or perhaps Michael should take up a new challenge at another team. Of course this won't happen and we will be stuck with this for probably another 4 or 5 years.

[bigbrickz]

Originally posted by Tuxy
I can think of something that's getting even more boring....repeating these comments over and over again. Stop complaining go watch something else.

When you've seen your chosen sport go slowly downhill it makes sense to point out what you see as its failings and hope that things improve. When things don't improve the sensible people will just stop watching, but passionate fans will go on watching and complaining.

Over time even passionate fans will start to care less but still voice their opion from time to the time in the hope that things will change. But they become increasingly isolated and discover to their surprise that their favorite forums are now populated by people who for some reason thing that this is absolutely brilliant entertainement.

When that happens it's time to move on.

[indigoid]

MaranelloMan, you are right on the money there. Yes, each time the rules have changed, Ferrari have proven themselves better at adapting to them than other teams. This year, Mercedes, and to a lesser extent, Honda, have suffered horribly with reliability; they weren't able to adapt properly to the one-engine rule. Ferrari has no such troubles.

If (when) the rules are changed again, they will have another chance to prove their adaptability. As will all of the other teams. If anything, these changes will surely hurt the smaller teams more, as they will have to spend even more money just to be allowed to race. Today, the leaders were lapping cars inside 20 laps. That makes pretty ugly viewing, in my opinion. I don't want it getting any worse.

j.

[Maranello Man]

Originally posted by Captain Cranckcase
F1 is in trouble you can close your eyes and pretend it isn't but it is. Todays race felt complete hollow it was devoid of any atmosphere or tension. Most of us started following F1 because it was an "action" sport, but right now it falls somewhere between golf and lawn bowls on the entertainment scale. Something needs to happen to inject life into the sport again, sure we've had dull periods before but never for such a prolonged period. Ferrari should really consider bringing in a motivated young teamate with equal rights for the good of the sport or perhaps Michael should take up a new challenge at another team. Of course this won't happen and we will be stuck with this for probably another 4 or 5 years.

So what is your Team? Go complain to them, their sponsors, etc.

This race was devoid of tension and action??

You're right you are not a car guy...your an action sport kinda guy ;)

[Jack Rabbit]

Originally posted by bigbrickz


When you've seen your chosen sport go slowly downhill it makes sense to point out what you see as its failings and hope that things improve. When things don't improve the sensible people will just stop watching, but passionate fans will go on watching and complaining.

Over time even passionate fans will start to care less but still voice their opion from time to the time in the hope that things will change. But they become increasingly isolated and discover to their surprise that their favorite forums are now populated by people who for some reason thing that this is absolutely brilliant entertainement.

When that happens it's time to move on.

And its kind of sad when it happens. I think it'll turn around though (mr. optimism here). I mean 2003 was an stronking year for competition. Although I am still not clear if 2003 was an aberration that only occured because Michelin were cheating; and if they were not cheating why'd they have to change. If it was only a glitch, and f1 doesnt regain its teeth gnashing competion, it might be in severe decline. Because, like it or not ferrari lovers, sport needs competition to be fun the viewers.

And if you want to know what this forum would be like if everyone agreed, just check out thescuderia.net . Its about as dull as the current f1 season.

[Maranello Man]

Originally posted by indigoid
MaranelloMan, you are right on the money there. Yes, each time the rules have changed, Ferrari have proven themselves better at adapting to them than other teams. This year, Mercedes, and to a lesser extent, Honda, have suffered horribly with reliability; they weren't able to adapt properly to the one-engine rule. Ferrari has no such troubles.

If (when) the rules are changed again, they will have another chance to prove their adaptability. As will all of the other teams. If anything, these changes will surely hurt the smaller teams more, as they will have to spend even more money just to be allowed to race. Today, the leaders were lapping cars inside 20 laps. That makes pretty ugly viewing, in my opinion. I don't want it getting any worse.

j.

j. thank you for having a good mind and a clear head

Maybe they should have engine programs for other teams to buy from (although it hasn't helped Sauber much) and give the other teams a better chance. Of course you know the factory teams would have that little advantage unless tech inspection made sure everyone was on the up and up ;)

I really like Factory teams...I feel that Mercedes should build their own car..same with BMW..maybe they would have better control of results from this.

Ferrari and Renault are In-house teams..Look at the results today.

I think you will see another Renault win and mayde a BAR win too this year...but I bet MS wins 14 in '04 Renault in Hungary...maybe Sato at Suzuka and RB in Brazil..that would be cool.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Jack Rabbit


And its kind of sad when it happens. I think it'll turn around though (mr. optimism here). I mean 2003 was an stronking year for competition. Although I am still not clear if 2003 was an aberration that only occured because Michelin were cheating; and if they were not cheating why'd they have to change. If it was only a glitch, and f1 doesnt regain its teeth gnashing competion, it might be in severe decline. Because, like it or not ferrari lovers, sport needs competition to be fun the viewers.

And if you want to know what this forum would be like if everyone agreed, just check out thescuderia.net . Its about as dull as the current f1 season.

Bingo. It pisses me off when people say races like France 2004 were good, imean a race like that last year would have been called the abyss of F1 races. It just shows how sad F1 has become that people say that today's race was excellent. It fell way short.

[Simioni]

There´s no doubt that ferrari and MS domination is hurting F1 badly but there´s nothing that can be done in the short term without ruining F1 as a sport. It´s supposed to be about the best team winning, and ferrari just are that much better at the moment and have been for some time. I know it´s repeating the same old mantra but truly the only way to go is to heavily revise technical and sporting rules in order to make cars look more exciting and handle more control back to the drivers. A change in regulations would also give a fresh start to the other teams which is something that has been done already in the past. But how are we ever going to see those changes done in a sensible way with the powers that be seemingly unable to agree on the time of day?

One thing that has got out of control is this pitstop mess. Five stints separated by pitstops of under 20s is not my idea of racing. As much credit as ferrari deserve for coming up with the strategies and MS for making them work, that´s not the way most fans want to see a race being won. If they had to make it with one or two stops as it used to be MS would´ve most likely have been forced to find a way around Alonso, which given the latter´s deficit in top-end power would likely have made for some very interesting duels under braking for the Adelaide hairpin. With the current qualify with race fuel format and ridiculous short pitstop windows, the rules just open more windows for the top car to be exploited on clean air. And that´s dull.

[kismet]

I've found that the races tend to seem much more exciting if I only watch live timing and blissfully forget the crappy TV coverage. For example, today's race made for a killer numberfest, mercifully without extensive Renault close-ups.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by kismet
I've found that the races tend to seem much more exciting if I only watch live timing and blissfully forget the crappy TV coverage. For example, today's race made for a killer numberfest, mercifully without extensive Renault close-ups.

I should have taken up maths.