40 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

There don't seem to be a single category called "Supermodified". Both open wheel and closed wheel cars are used. The open wheel roadsters with offset engines and suspensions, seems to be seriously fast despite their relatively crude construction.

There seem to be a large number of local/regional championships so I guess it would be hard to trace every one of these!

Some more recent names like Davey Hamilton and Joe Gosek have tried their luck in "proper" Indy Cars. Any other notable who has come from the Supermodified ranks?

[Lotus23]

Rainer, I have only a passing knowledge of Supermods, and have only ever seen them run on the telly. My impression has been that they were all open-wheeled, as in your photos.

Most of those I've heard about have run in the northeastern U.S. ISTR that Oswego, NY holds the biggest Supermod race of the season.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg


Some more recent names like Davey Hamilton and Joe Gosek have tried their luck in "proper" Indy Cars. Any other notable who has come from the Supermodified ranks?

Gordon Johncock, Geoff Bodine, Brett Bodine, Steve Park, and Jimmy Spencer are a few.

The cars are amazing to watch run. The extreme left-side weight and big power make for scary-fast racing. As far as their "crude" construction, their technology is effective for the tracks on which they run. They're easily adjustable, strong as hell, and easily repaired, all important factors for realtively low cost racing.

They're especially wild to watch at Oswego. I haven't been there in years, but a bunch of supers on the 5/8 track with it's steel boiler-plate walls makes for one helluva sound and incredible speed.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
There don't seem to be a single category called "Supermodified". Both open wheel and closed wheel cars are used. The open wheel roadsters with offset engines and suspensions, seems to be seriously fast despite their relatively crude construction.

There seem to be a large number of local/regional championships so I guess it would be hard to trace every one of these!

Some more recent names like Davey Hamilton and Joe Gosek have tried their luck in "proper" Indy Cars. Any other notable who has come from the Supermodified ranks?

Rainer,

Actually, Super Modified does apply to one category of car, and they are always open wheeled. And though rules vary, nowadays they commonly are along the lines of the cars in your photos.

Check out these previous TNF threads where Super Modifieds came up:

http://forums.atlasf...referrerid=5386

http://forums.atlasf...referrerid=5386

The threads start off discussing Sprint Cars, but scrolling down they get into Super Modified racing, particularly in the first one. I give an overview of the evolution of Super Modified racing and list several of the grads in posts in the first thread, as well as links to sites covering Super Modified racing history (great photos).

Super Modified racing is one of my favorite forms and a special interest of mine. As far as tracing the various champions, well, that is a task...and one I hope to compile at least for the major groups. At least some of the websites have some listings.

Even though I mention it in one of the posts in one of the prior threads, among graduates of Super Modified racing: George Snider, Joe Leonard, Billy Vukovich, Gordon Johncock, Sammy Sessions, Eldon Rasmussen, the Sneva brothers, Billy Foster, Art Pollard and Jim Malloy come readily to mind.

Please do check out the posts in those threads though, I far from repeated it all here ;)

And if you have any further questions on Supers, please feel free to post them here.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by MPea3


Gordon Johncock, Geoff Bodine, Brett Bodine, Steve Park, and Jimmy Spencer are a few.

The cars are amazing to watch run. The extreme left-side weight and big power make for scary-fast racing. As far as their "crude" construction, their technology is effective for the tracks on which they run. They're easily adjustable, strong as hell, and easily repaired, all important factors for realtively low cost racing.

They're especially wild to watch at Oswego. I haven't been there in years, but a bunch of supers on the 5/8 track with it's steel boiler-plate walls makes for one helluva sound and incredible speed.

Ummm, well Brett Bodine, Park and Spencer are graduates of Modified racing, not to be confused with Super Modifieds (while open wheeled, Modifieds, are - or should I say - were, closer to Stock Cars). Johncock definitely drove Super Modifieds and while primarily a Modified driver, Geoffrey Bodine did compete in them on some occasions.

I think the comment about relatively low cost would cause some and groans amongst Super owners...as the high cost has really impacted the class over the last decade or so...

but, then again, you did say "relatively"

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Ummm, well Brett Bodine, Park and Spencer are graduates of Modified racing, not to be confused with Super Modifieds (while open wheeled, Modifieds, are - or should I say - were, closer to Stock Cars). Johncock definitely drove Super Modifieds and while primarily a Modified driver, Geoffrey Bodine did compete in them on some occasions.

I think the comment about relatively low cost would cause some and groans amongst Super owners...as the high cost has really impacted the class over the last decade or so...

but, then again, you did say "relatively"

You're right about modifieds & supers.... my mistake. And yes, i did say realtively!

[Rainer Nyberg]

Thanks for the input, and I will have a close look at those threads, Jim.

Further browsing came up with this photo, I it supposed to be Geoff Bodine, in an Indycar based Supermodified racer.

[D-Type]

When I saw these I immediately thought "A Mallock U2 after a double dose of steroids!". did they strike anybody else the same way?

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Thanks for the input, and I will have a close look at those threads, Jim.

Further browsing came up with this photo, I it supposed to be Geoff Bodine, in an Indycar based Supermodified racer.

You're welcome Rainer. I hope my posts in those threads are more enlightening.

I believe that is Geoff Bodine. I recall a similar photo of him trying a rear engined car at Oswego (New York) Speedway. And that definitely appears to be Oswego. Thanks for posting the photos.

I cover it in my essay in the 'Sprint Car Racing' thread, but Super Modifieds use to feature great variety. Sprint Cars, converted Indy roadsters, fibreglass bodied "upright" style Modifieds, homebuilt specials and, in later years, rear engined cars all in the mix. With a ban on rear engined cars, the offset Oswego style offset roadsters (as shown in the photos you posted) became the common look and style.

And referring back to tracing winners and champions of Super Modified racing, it would be much more comprehensive to attempt that for dirt track Super Modifieds as many, many short tracks raced the class weekly in the 60's and into the 70's. Not that there wasn't Super Modified racing weekly on asphalt, but there weren't nearly as many paved short tracks.

Super Modified racing on asphalt was primarily confined to certain regions (Central California, Pacific Northwest and areas bordering the Great Lakes, Colorado, Utah, a bit in Texas, Alabama and Florida) and has evolved into a few travelling associations.

[Jim Thurman]

Merv Sartori of Santa Rosa, California practicing his Super Modified at Ukiah Speedway, Ukiah, California on June 29, 1973. This car was very typical of the "upright" style Super Modifieds in Central/Northern California from the mid-1960's through late 1970's.

Nice view of the Coast Range mountains in the background.

Photo credit: me.

[bpratt]

For northwest supermodified racing history you might go to <<http://www.srv.net/~kc7esb/ >>. The Canadian American Modified Racing Association lasted from 1963 to 1984.

Oswego put out a massive book when their 50th anniversary rolled around in 1999. Lots of photos.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Thanks for the input, and I will have a close look at those threads, Jim.

Further browsing came up with this photo, I it supposed to be Geoff Bodine, in an Indycar based Supermodified racer.

But what is this car? It looks more F5000 than Indy to me.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

This picture on Retro Rockets shows Bodine in 1972 in - it is said - an ex-Andretti Indy car and implies it is his Brabham BT12-based Brawner-Hawk from 1965.



However, it's not the same car as in Rainer's picture.

So Bodine had two rear-engined sprint cars?

Allen

[R.W. Mackenzie]

In the years after rear-engined cars took over Indycar racing, quite a few of the roadsters which had become obsolete were converted to run as super-modifieds. I used to keep a scrap book of racing newsclips back in the late sixties and early seventies (I really wish I still had them.) One of the stories from the Hamilton (Ontario) Spectator was about a local racer, Andy Brown, who had one such roadster that had reputedly been driven by Mario Andretti. That means it might have been one of the Dean Van Lines Specials.

In more recent years, once the roadsters were no longer competitive as super-modifieds and their real value as vintage racers was appreciated, they have been uncovered and restored to their Indy 500 glorious state. "Circle Track" magazine used to have monthly feature on classic oval track cars and had some great pictures of these restored roadsters.

Bob Mackenzie

[Allen Brown]

I guess the front-engined roadsters were always welcome in supermodifieds but I'm very curious about this 1972-73 period when rear-engined cars briefly appeared in supermodifieds before being banned. At least two of these were ex-F5000 cars and at least two more were ex-Indy (the Bodine Hawk and a Vollstedt).

I'd guess there were many, many more.

Allen

[bpratt]

From the Oswego book it looks like there were plenty of experiments with rear-engined supermodifieds. The former Mario Andretti car looks to be one driven by Freddy Graves. The car originally was from 1967 and campaigned at Oswego in 1973.

Rear-engined cars ran at Oswego up till 1980 when they were finally banned. The late great Jim Shampine had created a rear-engined offset that looked like it had the potential to make everything at Oswego obsolete.

There is a bio on Shampine available.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

As for the 'Bodine' pix, it certainly reminds this reader of a Lola T-140/142 F5000 car.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin
As for the 'Bodine' pix, it certainly reminds this reader of a Lola T-140/142 F5000 car.

Good point. The sidepods are more T142 than T140 but all the (visible) suspension pickups match - as does the cockpit surround. Can anyone else comment - wheels for example?

Burt Curtis of Eureka California has an ex-sprint car Lola T142 but that's the wrong coast altogether isn't it?

Allen

[canon1753]

I guess that the rear engine supermod/ sprinters was/is the missing link between the old way to Indy and the "new" (since the rear engine revolution) way of road racing your way to Indy.

I think that the rejection of the rear engined supermod/sprinter is one of the greatest what ifs in US racing history.

[Arthur Anderson]

I believe that Pancho Carter, Johhny Parsons Jr, Art Pollard, Jerry Grant, Tom Sneva, Jerry Sneva, to name a few, all came to Indy cars along a career path that included the Supermodified racers of their respective times.

Art Anderson

[Arthur Anderson]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
This picture on Retro Rockets shows Bodine in 1972 in - it is said - an ex-Andretti Indy car and implies it is his Brabham BT12-based Brawner-Hawk from 1965.



However, it's not the same car as in Rainer's picture.

So Bodine had two rear-engined sprint cars?

Allen

Frankly, this one looks much more like a '66-68 Gerhardt USAC champ car chassis to me.

Art

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Arthur Anderson
I believe that Pancho Carter, Johhny Parsons Jr, Art Pollard, Jerry Grant, Tom Sneva, Jerry Sneva, to name a few, all came to Indy cars along a career path that included the Supermodified racers of their respective times.

The Sneva brothers and Pollard, yes, and Tom in rear engined cars literally from the start of his career. I'm not aware of Parsons Jr. or Carter racing Super Modifieds in Southen California, as the class had virtually died out when they came along. They both ran T.Q. Midgets. Parsons Jr. did compete in a Super Modified/Sprint Car open competition race at Hanford Motor Speedway in 1969, but he was driving a Watson style roadster (and qualified at something like 144mph )

Grant, I don't know. He definitely ran the short tracks around Seattle, but I don't think they'd gone to Super Modified rules yet.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
There seem to be a large number of local/regional championships so I guess it would be hard to trace every one of these!

Reviving this as I stumbled across a useful website:

http://www.supermodi...com/history.htm

Far from complete, as many local championships are not included as of yet...but at least it's a start. And it has more points champions listed in one place than any other site and lists major race winners as well (Oswego Classic, Copper Classic, Harvest Classic, etc.).

[Bob Riebe]

Having come across this picture, of John Spencer's machine at Retro Rockets and having a Open Wheel magazine that has an article on the Utah area super-mods, including rear engined machines; does anyone here have any info on the western machines?
What was the last year they ran the rear engined machines?

[Bob Riebe]

Allen:
I found this picture of Wally Pankratz's car:

among the info at this site http://www.srv.net/~kc7esb/index.html

It has a direct link to the Tipke Indy car, and you just might find it worth looking at to get a clear, or more muddied picture of how varied US open wheel racing used to be.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe


Having come across this picture, of John Spencer's machine at Retro Rockets and having a Open Wheel magazine that has an article on the Utah area super-mods, including rear engined machines; does anyone here have any info on the western machines?
What was the last year they ran the rear engined machines?

I have quite a bit on racing in the Western U.S. from the 1960's on.

As far as last year for rear engined cars, it varied from association to association, but most had banned them by the mid-1980's.

[bpratt]

Norm Ellefson, circa 1971, in a Jim Tipke rear-engined supermodified. Norm orginally raced out of Alberta, Canada, then moved to Spokane, WA, and drove Tipke cars. Norm won the CAMRA title in 1966, 1967, and 1969. Went to Minnesota for the state fair race there and won with a Tipke roadster in 1969 and might've done the same with the rear-engined car but...well, there is a conspiracy theory there.

[Jim Thurman]

Brian, thanks for posting the Norm Ellefson photo.

Here is a link to the photos from the Golden State/Golden West Classic series:

http://www.retrorock...org/6/index.htm

For some reason, photos from volumes 6 on don't appear other than thumbnails.

Anyone interested in rear engined modifieds check out volumes 3 and 5. The Tipke car in the photo Brian posted is there, then being driven by John Albrechtsen.

Volume 1 has a photo of Earl Kelley in a more conventional San Jose style super.

The website I linked in post #23 is no longer there. A shame really as it was the best (and only) list of various Super Modified champions.

[Peter Leversedge]

Super Modifieds/Sprintcars in New Zealand
We started running dirt Super Modifieds here in the 60's and then we allowed Sprintcars to run with them if they had a clutch and starter motor which Super Modifieds had to have. After a while we had more Sprintcars than S/modifieds so we changed the name of the class to Sprintcars [ about 77/78 ] did away with the starter/clutch rule. After a while the S/modifieds disappeared.There are no pavement circle tracks in New Zealand. I build a dirt Supper modified in the early 70's with a manual shift auto trans and raced it on dirt !/4 mile tracks/ beach racing [won NZ BeachRacing Champs ] Shingle & tar seal hillclimbs [ 9th NZ Hillclimb Champs ] / Drag racing and once on a tar seal road race type circiut so I sure got a lot use out of that car. I replaced it with a ex USA car that had been built as a Super Modified and had been changed into a sprint car.
I think what happened here happened in the USA [ correct me if I am wrong ] is that a lot of Dirt Super Modified classes changed over to Sprintcars as time when by and today most Super Modified are built as special pavement cars. Same goes with Sprintcars you have dirt and pavement cars. where as once you ran your dirt cars on the pavement with a few small changes between meetings. Once again correct me if I am wrong as I have not been to the USA since 1981. I myself like the engine up front, a must in a dirt sprintcar, but far as Supper Modified go that run pavement its a hard call and maybe we should leave that to the guys that race them

[Peter Leversedge]

Re Bob Riebe photo, I remember seeing the Wally Pankratz car runing at Bakersfield Ca. in 1977 the only rear engine car and it lead most of the race until sometime broke I think in the suspension. I think some of those road race type cars where not strong enough in the suspension etc for the down force of some of the banked tracks. The race was won by Lee James in a upright sprint car with a spring front. I remember the week before being at Ascot with Louis Venditto a friend of Jack Kindoll and while Lee James was doing his time trail Louis said "that car still goes real well on pavement watch it next week" and sure enough it won the feature. I have the idea that the following year CRA banned rear engines because of the cost factor

[martyk]

The photos on RetroRockets were mine, scanned from the various race programs I have. I've reposted them here:

http://public.fotki....g/racing_scans/ http://public.fotki....g/racing_scans/

For Direct access to the Golden West Classic albums: (photos of rear engined supers listed below the link)

http://public.fotki...._scans/1972gsc/
Photo #6 has Todd Gibson's Rear engine car

http://public.fotki...._scans/1973gsc/
Photos 3 (Earl Kelley), 5 (John Albrechtson, 17 (Armond Holley)

http://public.fotki...._scans/1974gwc/
Photos 9 (Jim Perry), 30 (Bob Frey)

http://public.fotki...._scans/1975gwc/
Photos 12, 29 (both Todd Gibson)

Rear engine cars were pretty rare in California, I think mostly because the pavement Super Modified rules were pretty restrictive back in the 70's, they were still running leaf springs.





(long time lurker here, but I figure I should reply when I see one of my own scans!)

[Allen Brown]

Welcome Marty!

Allen

[Jim Thurman]

Marty,

Good to see you here. Thanks for the scans

You mention something I should have added. The Central/Northern California Super Modified racing on pavement was primarily NASCAR sanctioned, and as such, they did not allow rear engines, and as Marty points out, were pretty restrictive.

While there were a few other independent associations running Supers on pavement in Northern California, they pretty much followed the same rules. It wasn't until Madera Raceway stopped being sanctioned by NASCAR that rear engined cars came to race regularly, though pretty much only at Madera and Mesa Marin. At first Madera was simply open racing, followed by the sanctioning of the SMRA (Super Modified Racing Association).

Prior to this, rear engined cars could only be seen in the area in open races like the Golden West/Golden State Classic. For our European members, look at this as Formula Libre.

The Northwest and Mountain States were a different story altogether, having rear engined cars much earlier and much more regularly.

[martyk]

Thanks Jim,

For the added info about Madera/Mesa Marin. I kind of fell off going to pavement Supermodified races once San Jose Speedway closed.

I do seem to remember reading in the old Open Wheel magazine that Jim Shampine's radical torque-arm, offset rear engine car (see the various photos on the RetroRockets website) ended up in the Central California valley somewhere. Not sure what happened to it after that.

[Peter Leversedge]

Can anyone tell me anything about Gerry Day and Ram Race Cars. I aquired a car about 1975/ 6 and was told it was built in his shop, It was a upright Supper Modified and I understand in was race mainly in Northern Cal. and the North West on pavemant. It came to NZ and converted to a sprintcar before it passed into my hands. It had torsion bars front and rear, a "V8" type Hailbrand rear end and was fitted with drum brakes!

[Fabrizio T.]

Hi Peter,have you photo's this car.Regards,Fabrizio T.

[martyk]

Originally posted by Peter Leversedge
Can anyone tell me anything about Gerry Day and Ram Race Cars. I aquired a car about 1975/ 6 and was told it was built in his shop, It was a upright Supper Modified and I understand in was race mainly in Northern Cal. and the North West on pavemant. It came to NZ and converted to a sprintcar before it passed into my hands. It had torsion bars front and rear, a "V8" type Hailbrand rear end and was fitted with drum brakes!

Jerry posts occasionally at the West Capital Raceway forum, www.westcapitalraceway.com, you can probably contact him thought that.
I've also seen him post on another site, but I can't remember where right now. He's active with the vintage racing now, I saw him last year at the Roseville, Ca. Vintage event.

[bpratt]

Jerry also shows up at http://www.nwracetalk.com/
mostly in the Nostalgia section of that forum.

He's part of the Golden Wheels racing fraternity out of Seattle.

While I do have his email I'm not too keen on broadcasting here.

[Fabrizio T.]

I like the Supermodifieds races,Oswego,ISMA,MSA,WSSRL.and past races.I want photo and information of Ex Indy roadster converted to supers,first and after the conversion and restoration original condition.Please any information e mail me ,fatasso@aliceposta.it Thanks,Fabrizio T.

[Peter Leversedge]

Fabrizio T Yes I have still have got photos of the "RAM" car

[Bob Riebe]

As much as I like the rear-engined super mods., just by taking a look at the Pankratz car, if they were running them now (even with a full or partial tube-frame) they would merely be a variation on the Indy/F-1 type of car.

Regardless what some euros might think, the men who build these cars are capable of incorporating the most state-of-the-art technologies and designs, if the money is there.

Now the front/side engines cars, while decades beyone what they were, are still looking at virgin praire.
If one Mr. George, would stop imitating Golum, from Lord of the Rings, and talk with some genuine US sprint car and super mod. drivers; one could develope a very fast, but also entirely unique formula car, that incorporates the best of what was, is and could be.

The thought of a mix of cars, similar to what once drove in the world's greatest outlaw race; the Copper World Classic running for 500 miles at Indy, makes me smile broadly.

Just a thought.
Bob