25 replies to this topic

[Spunout]

Hi!

Me and Buford had a discussion at Racing Comments and he suggested me to try GPL, a game I have "tested" before (without force feedback), but very briefly. The AI was very disappointing but otherwise it was good, REALLY good for a game programmed years ago.

So I will buy a copy and start racin´



My trusty ol´ comp is P600, 128 Mb RAM. And I am pretty sure its 3D card and other such stuff are not optimized for games, but I guess it will run GPL well enough?

Now, I need steering wheel and pedals. Here is where I really need your help. I am not very keen of spending lots of money for expensive hardware since I haven´t been a great fan of racing games so far. My friend has a steering wheel he doesn´t use anymore and he will give it to me for few bucks - Saitek R100, I guess it has no force feedback...? I recall him saying it isn´t really good, but is it DECENT for testing? I can always buy a better one if I get hooked to racing sims ;) The question is does GPL have force feedback effects like steering becoming LIGHTER as a result of understeer?

And one more question - are there steering wheels with gear lever and glutch? I understand it´s only a game and lack of feel makes it completely different from real racing, but it´s been some time since I was on track and I need to practise my heel-and-toe

Thanks!

[BorderReiver]

Heheh Spunout ;)

Welcome to hell. The journey ahead won't be easy. Be ready for late nights, hook clawed hands, wide eyes, palid skin and clammy flesh.

Be read for frustration in bags as you go wide at Six-Freres again and are killed in a firey and horrific accident again. Be ready to yell obscenities at the Lotus drivers as they lap you again and again and again. Cheer wildly as you round the second Lesmo in a perfect drift, and then have that cheer turn to a howl as you snatch a gear, get sideways and plow into the wall of the bankingbride once again you will die in a firey accident.

Other than that, its great!

You are going to need a fairly up to date system with a good 3D card. I run a P4 1.7 but that is excessive, I think you can get away with a P600.

You also MUST play with a forcefeedback wheel it improves the "feel" no end, without it you are driving blind and it becomes next to utterly impossible. The Forcefeedback was coded in to a patch to upgrade the game, I can't remember which release, but you will need to get the most up to date version of the sim to experience it at it's best.

Don't worry everything you could ever need, including guides etc can be found HERE.

Oh and one last thing, the game was made in '98 so it does look VERY basic. That can be cured though because the guys at the GPLEA have made it their lifes work to update the sim, releasing new tracks and cars that can best be described as gorgeous. All with authentic sounds etc (listen to the Ferrari at top gear with a good speaker system and you will fall in love).

And lastly don't give up it takes a LOT of practice to be quick, and enjoy it, enjoy how the car moves, and what you can learn to make it do. It is the closest any of us lot are going to get to driving those lovely looking coffins.

Oh, and one last tip, break smooth, brake actually into the corner (not in a straight line) and come off slowly as you apply the power (carefully!). Thats the trail break, it keeps the nose tucked in and the apex comes up sooner. It's a black art but when it comes off it feels great.

Oh and start with the Coventry/Cooper

Oh and don't do anything until your tyres are hot.

Oh and. .

Oh soddit, you'll learn. Hehe

Enjoy

[Wolf]

Oy, whom are You calling Buford?!? Actually, I'm a bit flattered.

Anyways, I run it on P450 with Matrox gfx card and it runs fairly OK ('cept for add-on tracks, which drop m' framerate). Anyways, enjoy and watch for this little bugger chasing You down (graphics are this good on my PC only for photo sessions).

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Wolf
Oy, whom are You calling Buford . . .

Is that the 65 Mod Wolf? Looks like a Lotus there . . .

[MrSlow]

Blackhole Motorsports have made a updated Demo - GPL 2004 Demo, that contains all updates.
Might be a good idea to try with that one while you search for the full game.
I think it is fairly easy to "upgrade" the demo once you get the full version and keep all graphics updates from the demo. There is also an "All in One" patch that upgrades the retail game to latest version.

GPL 2004 Demo: http://www.bhmotorsp...L/downloads/619
All in One patch: http://trackdb.d2g.com/all-in-one.asp

To get the beautiful, upgraded and patched GPL:
1. Install the demo
2. Install the retail game into another folder
3. Patch the retail with the all-in-one patch
4. Move all files from the demo except gpl.exe into the retail folder
5. Enjoy


Wheel? The eternal problem. Sadly there is no real good FF wheels pedals available. Logitech MOMO Force was good, altough the quality of the potentiometers is low. But they stopped making it
Instead they make a wheel called Logitech MOMO Racing that looks similar but have even worse quality. Unless they have changed components you will have only about 30-50 hours between service. Furthermore - the pedals on that wheel are lousy. One good thing with it, specially for GPL, is that it as a shifting knob (and paddles).
http://www.logitech....,CONTENTID=6030

Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback Wheel is quite ok, if you can find it. It is a digital wheel and lasts for years without problems. Pedals are ok, worse than MOMO Force but better than MOMO Racing. It is rumoured that MS stopped making that wheel, I have not seen it in any shops for a long time but they have it on their website.
http://www.microsoft...ewinder/FFB.asp

Pedals is actually quite important, specially in GPL since you do drive those cars just as much with your feets as with your hands. There is some good (and expensive) pedals available, BRD Speed-7 for example. But all good pedals will cost about twice as much, or more, than a MSFF Sodewinder wheel with pedals included.
http://www.interacti.../Pedals/Speed7/


In the normal pricerange, apart from Microsoft FF Wheel and the Logitech MOMO Racing, there is ACT Labs, Saitek and Thrustmaster Ferrari. ACT Labs get's very mixed reviews, most people hate the pedals. Saitek seem to share electronics with the MSFF, but feels very low budget in comparison. Thrustmaster I have never tried, some people are happy with it.
http://us.thrustmaster.com/
Logitech also makes a wheel with 400 (something) degree turning, or maybe they stopped making that one also, I can't find it now.

EDIT: I forgot about the ACT Labs Shifter. That is very popular among GPL Drivers.
To my surprise I see that ACT.Labs have discontinued the Force RS series. The situations is getting bad for simracers...
http://www.act-labs....cts/forcers.htm

EDIT 2: Saitek R-100 seem to be the non-ff version. The pedals is a joke and the precision of the wheel is lousy. It will not give GPL justice. You can try it, but I would not spend even one dollar on it. The R440 Force Feedback is ok, but the R100 is not for racing.
http://www.saitekusa...prod/wheels.htm

[Wolf]

Yep, BR- Lotus 33. I think we could manage to get a team for next World Cup in GPL, so I made a livery for our team (and put on captain's markings on my car, since I was elected for last WC, in which we failed to get enough drivers)...

[Spunout]

Thanks for help, guys!

I checked out some wheels from the pages of local computer store, and I found...



Logitech WingMan Formula Force GP

Logitech MOMO Racing Force

MS SideWinder Force Feedback Wheel

Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel



Prices start from around 80$ and there are no big differences, except MOMO is more expensive.

I guess all of them give similar force feedback effects?

[Spunout]

Thanks to everyone for help!

Based on your feedback and some reviews I checked out, I will choose between Logitech Wingman, Logitech MOMO and MS Sidewinder...

[BorderReiver]

If you can, try and get a wheel with a separate shift-stick as well as the paddels, makes the experience that much more engrossing.

Actually I beleive some companies do separate shifters, with gates. I don't have any experience of those however. . . .

[Spunout]

Apparently MOMO has separate shift stick? What I really want is manual gear lever and glutch But I am not sure whether there are such wheels...?

[Dmitriy_Guller]

MOMO Racing is OK, especially the second version that is sold now. The first version was indeed riddled with bugs, but this version is very nice for its price. Its force feedback is strong yet precise. You used to be able to buy a gated shifter from Act Labs, I have one and it make it much more fun, but unfortunately Act Labs discontinued all racing peripherals.

[Kaiser]

If your seriuos about sim racing just buy a decent wheel. You just be replacing the store bought ones time and time again.
TSW Wheels

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by Kaiser
If your seriuos about sim racing just buy a decent wheel. You just be replacing the store bought ones time and time again.
TSW Wheels

In six years I have had two Microsoft FF wheels. I would still use the first one if my motherboard had supported gameport. Had to buy a new one with USB.

TSW does not have force feedback and altough I do not doubt they are very, very good, I am sure they require more service than MSFF due to their analog potentiometer.

TSW have to come up with a FF wheel, I can honestly not imagine driving without it.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

No point starting with expensive wheels for a newbie, that's like recommending some fancy French wine for someone who never tasted alcohol in his life.

[Kaiser]

Baa, FF is a joke, and that MOMO wheel is $200, you can get a tsw for a hundred or so more, and it'll last forever.

Did I mention that ff is a joke?

I am sure they require more service than MSFF due to their analog potentiometer.

Ahh the famous wandering digital pot. Something to stay away from, the logi still has real pots, IIRC.

TSW's are designed for easy pot replacement, it takes no more than 10 minutes, the second time you do it.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Momo Racing costs $100, not $200.

[Kaiser]

for the cheap one that's easy to find. The good one was/is $200.

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by Kaiser
Baa, FF is a joke, and that MOMO wheel is $200, you can get a tsw for a hundred or so more, and it'll last forever.

Did I mention that ff is a joke?



Ahh the famous wandering digital pot. Something to stay away from, the logi still has real pots, IIRC.

TSW's are designed for easy pot replacement, it takes no more than 10 minutes, the second time you do it.

Yes, you did mention FF is a joke. You are wrong though. You can mention it thousand times, and you will still be wrong.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I find that those who blast FF are usually those who want to feel good about spending a lot of money on a fancy steel non-FF steering wheel.

[Kaiser]

LOL, I've had FF wheels, including the original Logi FF, which I paid $200 for back in 98 or 99, the good MOMO was just an upgaded version. After the Logi wore out in about 2 years I bought 2 or 3 other wheels before purchasing the TSW. 2 years in and my TSW2 still performs as if it was brand new. Not bad for $150 on E Bay.

Sorry, I thought this was a thread about serious sim racing, with the GPL theme and all.

Another note, this is an interesting video of mostly US race drivers and how they've used Sims to help them learn circuits, and develop tactics for the race. What kind of wheels are those guys running?

Logi's?
MS's?
ECCI's?
TM's?

Naw, they all look to be TSW's, sup with that?
espn story video link

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
No point starting with expensive wheels for a newbie, that's like recommending some fancy French wine for someone who never tasted alcohol in his life.

How so, the wheel will still be there at the end of the race, the alcohol is gone at the end of the bottle.

[MrSlow]

When TSW or BRD make a FF wheel I will buy it. The preciosion on MSFF and Logitec´h is not as good as would like it to be. But they are "close enough for rock'n roll". FF really adds to the experience, there is no need to argue about that. Feedback is needed, the more you get, the more "real" it will feel. Maybe it is possible to drive faster with a TSW, but I am willing to sacrifice 1/10 of a second to be able to feel when my front tyres lose grip altough I might feel it 1/100 s too late.

[Exar Kun]

Personally, I went a lot faster when I finally went to an FF wheel. I became a lot smoother as with the non FF wheel I found myself moving the wheel around all over the place as I had no idea what the car was doing. The TSW and BRD wheels are way out of my price range in any case although I'd love that new FF BRD wheel that's being developed.

[Kaiser]

FF does help with the straight line stability in GPL, although after a few laps it's not a big issue FF or not. You can feel the front wheels losing grip asd well with FF, I happen to think you get bad info regarding the grip up front, but you get some kind of feedback, sure.

Anyway, you're still going to have purchased 3 or 4 of them before I need to replace my bearing assembly for $15. The FF wheels on the market today, hell, all the wheels you'd find at stores are not made to last.

ACT labs had the best quality IMO, but I think they got out of the wheels business, they made a nice gated shifter, a stand alone unit.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I just don't think advising someone to buy a wheel that they'll just have to replace in a years time is good advice. Only rich folk can afford to buy cheap ****.

Oh yea, I strted playing GPL on an AMD k-6-2 333mhz, with 2 voodoo2's in SLI. That was good to go at 800x600 on all of the original 11 circuits. Your p3 600 will work fine for you, to much AI might bog you down a bit.

[MrSlow]

As I said earlier, I have had two MSFF wheels in 6 years, I replaced the first one ONLY because it did not have a USB connector and my new MoBo did not support gameport. The "famous wandering digital pot" is working perfectly after hundreds of track hours. BTW, "Famous"? I have never heard of it before, in what way is it "wandering"?

But it seems that Microsoft, as well as Act Labs, is not making wheels anymore, so it is maybe not important now.

[dntm]

Hi guys, just bought GPL, installed the all in one patch, running a P4 3 Gig with XP. Seems to run fine. Question, downloaded a new track, how do you place it into the game. I would like to download some cars as well, can someone tell me what I need to do each time I down load the mod as to how to get it into the game.

PS I don't know how anyone survived after racing these things, those track are lethal!!!!!