Based upon what little information is available on this collection, it would seem that the Collier Collection is among the premier collections in the world.
I cannot find a website for the collection and from what I can find, the collection is not open to the public.
Does anyone know whether there are plans to open the museum to the public, or if possible, how one could make an appointment to view the very sumptuous machinery contained within?
The Collier Collection - Naples, Florida
Started by
Dennis Hockenbury
, Aug 04 2004 01:47
41 replies to this topic
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#2
rdrcr
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Posted 04 August 2004 - 03:25
Dennis,
As you may know, the Collier Collection is comprised of individual acquisitions and the purchase of the Briggs Cunningham Collection from Costa Mesa, CA.
IIRC, it used to be open to the public, but has been private for years now... I suppose with some discreet inquiries in and around this forum, an introduction can be arranged.
I sure appreciate the time I had when the Cunningham Collection was in California - I had many visits to the facility over the years.
As you may know, the Collier Collection is comprised of individual acquisitions and the purchase of the Briggs Cunningham Collection from Costa Mesa, CA.
IIRC, it used to be open to the public, but has been private for years now... I suppose with some discreet inquiries in and around this forum, an introduction can be arranged.
I sure appreciate the time I had when the Cunningham Collection was in California - I had many visits to the facility over the years.
#3
David Holland
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Posted 05 August 2004 - 17:31
I tried to visit the museum in Naples back in November 1996 but all questions to the locals came back with the answer that it was now closed. I remember driving to its location but there was no sign of any public entrance at all. Big pity as I really wanted to see the Behra-Porsche that I've read so much about. Is it still a runner? If it is, let the mountain come to Muhammad and run it up the hill at Goodwood!
BTW we ended up visiting a teddy bear museum instead and my daughter had her little companion repaired by some nice ladies - so all was not lost.
BTW we ended up visiting a teddy bear museum instead and my daughter had her little companion repaired by some nice ladies - so all was not lost.
#4
Doug Nye
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Posted 05 August 2004 - 21:51
The Collier Collection is simply stunning in its breadth, its quality and its presentation.
It is currently closed to the public but the Collection will arrange a visit by appointment if a group or perhaps an individual is interested.
The curator/President is a good guy - and a considerable race engineer in his own right - named Scott George (great friend of mine) and if he can accommodate visitors by prior appointment he will always do so.
The Collection maintains a large proportion of its cars in running condition - and runs them at as many public events as possible....which means its staff is often preoccupied in preparation between events, precluding visits. At other times they can be accommodated.
The Collection's 1954 Sebring 12-Hours race winning Cunningham team OSCA is running at Monterey next week driven by Stirling Moss, while its Porsche 908/3 (Iffythree?) will be run there by Brian Redman. For contact numbers/address try 'CH Motorcars' in the Naples, Florida, directories...
DCN
It is currently closed to the public but the Collection will arrange a visit by appointment if a group or perhaps an individual is interested.
The curator/President is a good guy - and a considerable race engineer in his own right - named Scott George (great friend of mine) and if he can accommodate visitors by prior appointment he will always do so.
The Collection maintains a large proportion of its cars in running condition - and runs them at as many public events as possible....which means its staff is often preoccupied in preparation between events, precluding visits. At other times they can be accommodated.
The Collection's 1954 Sebring 12-Hours race winning Cunningham team OSCA is running at Monterey next week driven by Stirling Moss, while its Porsche 908/3 (Iffythree?) will be run there by Brian Redman. For contact numbers/address try 'CH Motorcars' in the Naples, Florida, directories...
DCN
#5
Jack-the-Lad
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Posted 05 August 2004 - 22:00
I was fortunate to visit the museum twice while it was open to the public. The collection is breathtaking and the architecture of the museum is also quite stunning. Dale Miller was the first museum curator and was there during the acquisition of the Cunningham collection, I believe. It is occasionally opened for private functions. Other than that, the museum is quite pricvate and low profile. Some of the cars come out to play at historic events, as note in Mr. Nye's above post.
Jack
Jack
#6
T54
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Posted 05 August 2004 - 23:27
Some of the best there IMHO are the Cunningham cars: the C4R, C4RK, C6R and the long-windshield Maserati T60, all in un-restored but very nice condition. The Delage 8-cylinder Grand Prix and the Peugeot 1912 Indy car as well as the 1918 Ballot were the jewels of Briggs' collection.
That this treasure was dumped for only $20M because Briggs' wife "wanted out" is also amazing, a true gift to the Collier family. The collection is worth well in excess of $100m today. Some cars were sold or traded by Miles Collier under the supervision of Dale Miller, and of course a whole lot of other cars were added including the famous Leonidas MG special, and the 1974 Eagle-Offy in which Bobby Unser won the 1975 "500".
I use to go to the museum in Costa Mesa very often, enjoying drives in many of the cars (most of them were runners) with curator John Burgess. Wonderful memories indeed...
This stuff belongs in the Smithsonian.
Regards,
T54
That this treasure was dumped for only $20M because Briggs' wife "wanted out" is also amazing, a true gift to the Collier family. The collection is worth well in excess of $100m today. Some cars were sold or traded by Miles Collier under the supervision of Dale Miller, and of course a whole lot of other cars were added including the famous Leonidas MG special, and the 1974 Eagle-Offy in which Bobby Unser won the 1975 "500".
I use to go to the museum in Costa Mesa very often, enjoying drives in many of the cars (most of them were runners) with curator John Burgess. Wonderful memories indeed...
This stuff belongs in the Smithsonian.
Regards,
T54
#7
Dennis Hockenbury
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 01:48
Thank you all for the information. No question, the Collier is on my must see list.
#8
Jack-the-Lad
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:10
A few years ago I drove my humble 914/6 in an historic rally in the southeast US. A transporter delivered the Porsche to the event's jumping-off point. When the transporter driver lowered the lift gate I discovered that it had shared trailer space with the Collier Museum's Gurney Eagle GP car, on its way to a flight to Europe for the Spa reunion event......one of my all-too-infrequent encounters with immortality.
Jack
Jack
#9
Ron Scoma
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:57
In addition to the cars....
They acquired the Peter Richley collection of books, magazines, etc., a few years back and just last month they outbid me for the following:
"The Bruce Craig Racing Photo Archive has been acquired by the Collier Museum in Naples, FL. Plans for the use of the archive within the newly completed research library will be announced later this year. The Museum respectfully requests no phone calls at this time."
Something like 300,000 negatives, many glass plates, in the collection. Oh well.
Ron
They acquired the Peter Richley collection of books, magazines, etc., a few years back and just last month they outbid me for the following:
"The Bruce Craig Racing Photo Archive has been acquired by the Collier Museum in Naples, FL. Plans for the use of the archive within the newly completed research library will be announced later this year. The Museum respectfully requests no phone calls at this time."
Something like 300,000 negatives, many glass plates, in the collection. Oh well.
Ron
#10
Frank S
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:16
When you make arrangements for the TNFers visitation, give me at least a week's notice, please. Once the date is firm I'll pledge a cross-country drive to be there, bells and all...Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury
Thank you all for the information. No question, the Collier is on my must see list.
#11
Ron Scoma
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:52
Originally posted by Frank S
When you make arrangements for the TNFers visitation, give me at least a week's notice, please. Once the date is firm I'll pledge a cross-country drive to be there, bells and all...
Just wondering..... are we witnessing the birth of the first TNF road trip?
Florida is pretty nice during the winter months, then again I'm from Illinois (and Buford... no comments please.......) so any place short of Buffalo NY is pretty nice during the winter months.
Ron
#12
Muzza
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:01
Fellows,
It is rude to invide myself, but I would like to let you know that if such a TNF group visit to the Collier Collection happens I would appreciate being considered to join you.
Thanks,
Muzza
It is rude to invide myself, but I would like to let you know that if such a TNF group visit to the Collier Collection happens I would appreciate being considered to join you.
Thanks,
Muzza
#13
Doug Nye
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 06:28
Originally posted by T54
This stuff belongs in the Smithsonian.
Regards,
T54
With respect, wrong! There it would not be so well kept - nor amongst people who better understand it...
DCN
#14
Ray Bell
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 07:01
Originally posted by T54
.....the 1918 Ballot were the jewels of Briggs' collection.
That this treasure was dumped for only $20M because Briggs' wife "wanted out" is also amazing, a true gift to the Collier family.....
But no gift to Ron Edgerton when he needed the original engine for his 1919 Ballot...
To reiterate, the many times blown up Ballot engine was sold c1940 to the owner of the car that became the Cunningham car. While Jim Gullan was happy to race on with a Ford V8 in his Ballot, the American owner wanted as many spares as he could get. And with one of the cars on the floor of the English Channel, numbers were running low.
Ron found his old love on an exploratory trip through southern New South Wales, when he was looking for motorcycles. Telling a friend in Grenfell about finding the car and his dilemma in negotiating with Mr Briggs 'I sell nothing' Cunningham over the original engine, the friend revealed that he had recently had a letter from 'Jumbo' Goddard.
He got the letter, they checked the clock and calculated that 'Jumbo' would be at Briggs' place right then!
Despite experiencing (apparently) a lack of understanding from the operator at the Grenfell telephone exchange, they put a call through and (unknown to them...) Briggs answered. "Is 'Jumbo' Goddard there at the moment?" they asked. "No he's not," came the reply, and hearts sank. "Hang on, I think this might be him in the taxi now... yes it is, just wait on..."
A breathless 'Jumbo' got on the phone and smartly deciphered the problem and thought out a solution. "Do you still have your Cottin desgoutes (sp?)?" he asked. "Yes, of course." said Ron. "Well, I don't think Briggs has one of them... just a moment..."
And you can guess the rest. A totally destroyed 1919 Indianapolis Ballot engine was traded for a perfectly restored 1904 vintage car...
#15
Ted Walker
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 07:10
I will be seeing Scott George this coming weekend,would you like me to ask about the chances of a TNF visit ????
#16
Dennis Hockenbury
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 11:40
Ted, speaking only for myself, I think that a TNF group visit to see the treasures of the Collier would be a great gathering.
Assuming of course that sufficient interest exists with TNF members to participate, and of course with the invitation of the Collier folks.
Assuming of course that sufficient interest exists with TNF members to participate, and of course with the invitation of the Collier folks.
#17
ensign14
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 13:09
Could be interesting...a TNF visit...
#18
MONTOYASPEED
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Posted 07 August 2004 - 05:19
I live in Naples. 
How can I get in? Can you guys give me a list of the cars they have?
My dad and me tried to go last year but couldn't get in.
How can I get in? Can you guys give me a list of the cars they have?
My dad and me tried to go last year but couldn't get in.
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#20
ray b
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Posted 15 August 2004 - 00:17
I just hope they survived charley ok
they should have being outside the worst part of the storm
and say if a trip is set up by the TNF I would like to go tooo
they should have being outside the worst part of the storm
and say if a trip is set up by the TNF I would like to go tooo
#21
PRD
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Posted 15 August 2004 - 17:13
We visited the Collier Collection about 10 years ago when on holiday in Florida. It's well worth seeing if you can politely talk your way as DCN suggests.
At the time we were accompanied by a very kindly elderly American gentleman guide who, on hearing our accents, asked if we were F1 fans. He then went on to talk about Michael Andretti's prospects in the Mclaren and assured us that such a good driver would soon be at home in F1 and winning races. Following this we were treated to a description of the Vanwall as a car that had won the Le Mans 24 hour race. He was so polite that I was treated to a series of wifely ankle kicks to prevent me from saying anything.
The next time I saw that Vanwall was when John Surtees was testing at Mallory Park a few years later....
Paul
At the time we were accompanied by a very kindly elderly American gentleman guide who, on hearing our accents, asked if we were F1 fans. He then went on to talk about Michael Andretti's prospects in the Mclaren and assured us that such a good driver would soon be at home in F1 and winning races. Following this we were treated to a description of the Vanwall as a car that had won the Le Mans 24 hour race. He was so polite that I was treated to a series of wifely ankle kicks to prevent me from saying anything.
The next time I saw that Vanwall was when John Surtees was testing at Mallory Park a few years later....
Paul
#22
Ted Walker
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Posted 19 August 2004 - 14:37
I spoke with Scott George of the Collier Museum about a TNF Visit, and he said he would be only too pleased to organize a PRIVATE VIEWING for a GROUP. All you need is an organizer in the USA.
#23
Doug Nye
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Posted 19 August 2004 - 16:05
I spent the Monterey week with Miles Collier, Scott and the team - chuffed with Brian Redman's win in the 908/3 and his drive in the Sebring-winning OSCA - and discussed the possibility of an AtlasF1 TNF group visit which they were very happy to accommodate at some mutually convenient time.
I ran this past Don Capps yesterday, for everybody, and Don should be coming up soon with thoughts after contacting the Collier Collection people direct.
Don't say Ted and I never cause trouble...
DCN
I ran this past Don Capps yesterday, for everybody, and Don should be coming up soon with thoughts after contacting the Collier Collection people direct.
Don't say Ted and I never cause trouble...
DCN
#24
rdrcr
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Posted 19 August 2004 - 16:27
Very cool... Thank you for taking the initiative on this one.
I have plans to be in Florida on business soon and I hope my schedule will allow a visit when the logistics are sorted.
I have plans to be in Florida on business soon and I hope my schedule will allow a visit when the logistics are sorted.
#25
Don Capps
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Posted 19 August 2004 - 19:19
I am going to get the ball rolling and see what can be arranged and worked out. More to follow.
#26
Dennis Hockenbury
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 00:32
That will be an EVENT.
Thanks to Ted, Doug for the request to the Collier folks, and to Don for taking up the challenge to arrange a TNF visit.
#27
Don Capps
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 01:03
Let us begin on this front by putting a marker on the wall for a general date for a visit. If this is to be done right, it will require a bit of planning and coordination, not a general mad rush for the doors. If there are those from overseas who might wish to participate, we need to give them a tad of lead time, as well as those not on the East Coast.
Ignoring the groans of those want to be there next week to sniff around, I would expect that some time early in 2005 is about what I am thinking. Indeed, there could also be a coordinated visit to the IMRRC or some event here in the USA. There will be ONE tour -- with some flexibility if there is some issues of scholarship involved.
That is my thinking on this at the moment.
Comments?
Ignoring the groans of those want to be there next week to sniff around, I would expect that some time early in 2005 is about what I am thinking. Indeed, there could also be a coordinated visit to the IMRRC or some event here in the USA. There will be ONE tour -- with some flexibility if there is some issues of scholarship involved.
That is my thinking on this at the moment.
Comments?
#28
Ruairidh
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 01:06
Originally posted by Don Capps
Comments?
Only that this sounds very good indeed.
#29
Cris
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 01:17
Hi,
I believe i may have been mentioned in another thread somewhere that the Collier Museum recently purchased the Bruce Craig photo archive? Does anyone have any info on this and how to get in touch with photo requests?
CDD
I believe i may have been mentioned in another thread somewhere that the Collier Museum recently purchased the Bruce Craig photo archive? Does anyone have any info on this and how to get in touch with photo requests?
CDD
#30
Dennis Hockenbury
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 01:38
Don, I think that is a great plan. Enough lead time for most of us I would think is a good thing. For me (and for most I would think) with careers, families, and such require some amount of pre-planning to work around.
Given the many positive comments in response to my original question in this thread regarding the Collier (and the like-minded enthusiasts who own and operate this fine collection), this would be a unparalled opportunity to visit a premier private collection in the company of many TNF friends from across the globe.
Having missed (sadly) the IMRRC gathering last year with DCN, count me in for this one.
Given the many positive comments in response to my original question in this thread regarding the Collier (and the like-minded enthusiasts who own and operate this fine collection), this would be a unparalled opportunity to visit a premier private collection in the company of many TNF friends from across the globe.
Having missed (sadly) the IMRRC gathering last year with DCN, count me in for this one.
#31
Frank S
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 02:19
ROLEX 24 RACE
Daytona Speedway Rolex 24 Race
Feb 05, 05 - Feb 06, 05
Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring at
Sebring International Raceway
March 17-20.
Daytona Speedway Rolex 24 Race
Feb 05, 05 - Feb 06, 05
Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring at
Sebring International Raceway
March 17-20.
#32
Don Capps
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Posted 20 August 2004 - 12:30
Frank is looking at pretty much the timeframe I had in mind, probably within a week on either side of one the events cited. I already have demands being placed on my schedule with a major project due in early April of 2005, so I need to figure out a slot within the next few weeks at the latest. Any time before late January 2005 is not going to work for me, I have most of that time already committed. Off the top of my head, some time around the Daytona event works best for me, the week after being open -- at the moment...
#33
Paul Medici
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 19:42
I'd really like to see this happen too.
I visited the museum in Costa Mesa back in the early '70s. Briggs was there and he walked over to me while I was drooling all over his Spyder Corsa (016I.) To my surprise we talked about racing sailboats for quite awhile and then I suggested that the Ferrari could use a paint job. I don't recall his exact reply but I seem to remember that he didn't quite agree.
Here is another event happening in Florida in Q1:
14th CAVALLINO CLASSIC- Jan. 18 - 23 in Palm Beach. (2 1/2 hr. drive from Naples.)
Ferraris old and new; the Cunningham Spyder Corsa was in attendance a few years ago.
Serious track events on Thursday and Friday at the Moroso circuit (40 min. drive from Palm Beach.)
To "MONTOYASPEED" ... hope you are still out there............
There is a wonderful book on Cunningham that lists the cars that went to Collier. It provides a very nice history of all his racing activities in America and Europe.
AND, if you are into racing sailboats, there is also a chapter dedicated to the 1958 America's Cup with some beautiful photos by Morris Rosenfeld (the Klemantaski of sailboat photography.)
If you can't find the book, e-mail me and I will be happy to e-mail you the list. PLease keep in mind the book was published in 1993 so some of the cars may have been sold off.
.
.
.
.
I visited the museum in Costa Mesa back in the early '70s. Briggs was there and he walked over to me while I was drooling all over his Spyder Corsa (016I.) To my surprise we talked about racing sailboats for quite awhile and then I suggested that the Ferrari could use a paint job. I don't recall his exact reply but I seem to remember that he didn't quite agree.
Here is another event happening in Florida in Q1:
14th CAVALLINO CLASSIC- Jan. 18 - 23 in Palm Beach. (2 1/2 hr. drive from Naples.)
Ferraris old and new; the Cunningham Spyder Corsa was in attendance a few years ago.
Serious track events on Thursday and Friday at the Moroso circuit (40 min. drive from Palm Beach.)
To "MONTOYASPEED" ... hope you are still out there............
There is a wonderful book on Cunningham that lists the cars that went to Collier. It provides a very nice history of all his racing activities in America and Europe.
AND, if you are into racing sailboats, there is also a chapter dedicated to the 1958 America's Cup with some beautiful photos by Morris Rosenfeld (the Klemantaski of sailboat photography.)
If you can't find the book, e-mail me and I will be happy to e-mail you the list. PLease keep in mind the book was published in 1993 so some of the cars may have been sold off.
.
.
.
.
#34
Dennis Hockenbury
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 02:46
I assume that the planning for a Collier TNF visit has died now that Don has departed. This would have been a great gathering I would have thought.
#35
antonvrs
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 05:02
I'd be very interested in attending a TNF gathering/Collier museum visit. I was a member at the Cunningham Museum in the late '60s- '70s and had the pleasure of meeting Mr. C at various times during that period. A great gentleman.
I also went for a ride in the Peugeot(I thought it was a 1913 and finished 2nd at Indy in 1914) with the mechanician who tended the collection in the '60s. That was quite an experience.
So count me in if anything comes of this.
Anton
I also went for a ride in the Peugeot(I thought it was a 1913 and finished 2nd at Indy in 1914) with the mechanician who tended the collection in the '60s. That was quite an experience.
So count me in if anything comes of this.
Anton
#36
Ted Walker
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 08:29
Myself and Doug Nye have done all the groundwork, Its up to you guys now. Scott said he would be only too pleased for a private TNF visit I only wish I lived a bus ride away.
#37
MCS
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 10:54
Can I take it that personal visits are permitted 
(I've tried googling but to no avail, but will be on the Gulf Coast next year and would love to be able to go along and have a look)
Thanks
Mark
(I've tried googling but to no avail, but will be on the Gulf Coast next year and would love to be able to go along and have a look)
Thanks
Mark
#38
Ted Walker
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 15:04
The collection is NOT open to the public,hence the invitation to organise a group TNF visit
#39
Frank S
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 15:48
How many constitute a viable TNF Group?
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#40
MCS
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Posted 16 November 2004 - 15:57
Originally posted by Ted Walker
The collection is NOT open to the public,hence the invitation to organise a group TNF visit
Thanks Ted. I simply wasn't sure (nor am I alone judging by some of the other posts).
Mark
#41
Pils1989
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Posted 17 November 2004 - 01:06
Hi,
We would be really interested to visit The Collier Collection as we are from Atlanta, not too far from Florida. I just hope to have a reliable car by then
Toine
We would be really interested to visit The Collier Collection as we are from Atlanta, not too far from Florida. I just hope to have a reliable car by then
Toine
#42
harryglorydays
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Posted 17 November 2004 - 20:26
I was fortunate to be able to visit the Collier many years ago when it was still open to the public. (My wife found out about it and suggested we drive down there from Tampa where we were staying! Can you believe that?)
Of course, the museum has many Cunninghams that I had only seen in pictures, including "Le Monstre." The Porsche collection is staggering. But the real attraction for me was the F1 Eagle. You could get right up close to it and almost no one was there. They also had an interesting display of various Eagle-Weslake engine components.
Does anyone know if that Eagle is really the Spa winner?
If a tour can be arranged, you should do anything to go. Highly recommended.
Of course, the museum has many Cunninghams that I had only seen in pictures, including "Le Monstre." The Porsche collection is staggering. But the real attraction for me was the F1 Eagle. You could get right up close to it and almost no one was there. They also had an interesting display of various Eagle-Weslake engine components.
Does anyone know if that Eagle is really the Spa winner?
If a tour can be arranged, you should do anything to go. Highly recommended.
