49 replies to this topic

[john medley]

Please resolve my confusion:

If the 4 CM1500 run in UK events with the distinctive light coloured flashes on the nose was originally a 4CM1100 chassis 1120 used by Furmanik for record attempts then sold to Gino Rovere ( who replaced the 1100 with 1500), then what is the story of chassis 1521 with (allegedly)a remarkably similar history.

The much modified ex EK Rayson 1521 was bought and raced in the UK 1949 by David Chambers who brought it back to Australia where its main racing history was in the hands of Tom Sulman.

[David McKinney]

As soon as I saw the thread title and the originator’s name I guessed what the question might be
I have had the same problem since the car with the funny nose-cowl reappeared in the UK in the 1980s.
There doesn’t seem to be any argument about Rovere racing an ex-Furmanik car at Brooklands in 1935, and it then passing into the hands of Teddy Rayson. I think it was Rayson who added the serrated flashes around the air intake, presumably to help his pit identify the car at a distance.
The Sulman car, 1521, can be traced after the war from Rowland Motors and Charles Mortimer to Roy Salvadori in 1948, Archie Baring 1949 and Chambers 1950. In post-Sulman times via Ralph Sach and Kerry Manolas to a Brooks auction in the UK in 1990, then by way of Dan Margulies 1994 to Peter Altenbach in 1997 and beyond.
Another ex-Furmanik car, 1120, meanwhile appears at a Christie's auction in the UK in 1976, acquired apparently by R A Jones, and campaigned in the UK from 1984 by Sean Danaher, who fitted the distinctive nose-cowl. He ran the car initially with 1100 motor and from 1991 as a 1500. Very successful in European historic racing 1992-1998 driven by Martin Stretton (first for Danaher, then for Simon Bull), and campaigned since 1999 by Barrie Baxter.
The question clearly is, which of these two cars was the original odd-nose-cowl one? The Sulman car always laid claim to it, though I don’t believe it had the distinctive front at any time after the war. I believe it may have had an 8CM-like front in the 1940s, and by its Australian period had a later-type treatment (a bit like a 4CL).
Sean Danaher is however adamant that 1120 is the car which was raced by Rayson with the funny nose.
What, I wonder, was the origin of the Furmanik/Rayson connection to the Australian car?

[john medley]

Thanks, David , for the response. You are right about guessing the question: it's one of those things that have gnawed at me for years.

I dont think it was Rayson who added the flashes . There are enough photos of Rovere in 1934 to show the flashes on the car then. I cant think of a photo of Rovere at Brooklands in 1935 to confirm that this was the same car/ flashes, but I can recall photos of Rayson in the car without the flashes and looking like a small 8CM.

I believe the car was rebodied or at least re-nosed a bit like a 4CL in the 40s before it came to Australia.

I agree that the Rovere/ Rayson/..... Sulman line of ownership was always promoted as true.

So now to find out more about Sean Danaher's assertions. Anyone?

[David McKinney]

I accept your statement about the timing of the flashes addition - I was being a bit sloppy.
Another comment without bothering to research matters (this time my excuse is that I'm at work) : I seem to remember a picture of a Maserati with the 8CM-type nose driven by someone said to be Rayson, but in fact showing Mortimer in what may or may not have been the same car.

[Egon Thurner]

It's always the same with existing pre-war Maseratis ...

And always the same ...

Take it easy ;)

[john medley]

David's suggestion of the need for a clearer link from Furmanik to Rayson to Australian owners prompted me to hunt further.

On Pp 46-47 of Crump & Box' " Maserati..." are photos of Furmanik's 4CM 1100 in 1932 record breaking form. The car looks like a streamlined/ no fwb 4CM1100 with headrest. It doesnt look all that much like the 4CM with nose flashes shown on P 48. That car not only has nose flashes but no headrest, no streamlining, big front wheel brakes, and the vertical radiator shell bar unlike most 4CMs. We dont easily know its chassis number ( 1120? 1521? some other number?), but the caption says " Guiseppe Furmanik with a 4CM on the Pontedecimo-Giovi, 18 June 1933"; so we might reasonably assume that this is the same car, owned and competed in by Furmanik in 1932 and 1933.

If we dont know its chassis number, we do recognize the distinctive nose flashes as the same ones on the 4CM raced the next year by Gino Rovere. Venables' " The Racing Fifteen-Hundreds" P54 shows that distinctive nose leading off the line at Pescara. While not suggesting that Rovere had only one Maserati, the Furmanik-Rovere link appears clear enough. Possibly, Barre Lyndon's books would tell us more.

John Blanden's " Historic Racing Cars of Australia" says the sale of 1521 from Rovere to Rayson took place 1936. No doubt there are other sources to support this ( photographic evidence would be nice) but I havent yet found them. And we dont know for certain that the car with the nose flashes was the one sold. The photos I recall of Rayson's car looked like a " standard" 4CM

Eason-Gibson's " Motor Racing 1947" ( opposite P 61 ) shows the car clearly enough, with a different nose again, and so does the Pathe newsreel of Gransden Lodge. Numerous other sources suggest the postwar history as previously indicated by David McKinney. Keith Winser's Australian Motor Racing Yearbook 1951 links Rayson-Mortimer-Salvadori-Baring-Chambers before 1521 came to Australia.

Looking back at what I've typed above tells me that what I've done is simply put on paper the sequence of events and owners of 1521 as I've understood it all my life -- or have I typed some sort of legend or accepted faith? Certainly , I was surprised and mystified from the very first time I saw photos of those nose flashes on the red 4CM running in European historic events 50 years after the cars were built.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by john medley
..... so we might reasonably assume that this is the same car, owned and competed in by Furmanik in 1932 and 1933.

Not necessarily.
Furmanik was closely associated with the factory, possibly even an employee, and could have driven several different cars in this period.

[john medley]

A Maserati Club site I found includes the words ".. in 1936 the 4CM1100 developed by Furmanik and owned by Rovere, using a special body, was used to set a world record for its class and the outstanding power of 143 bhp/litre was obtained -- never having been achieved before in an automobile engine..."

Another part of the same site has a photo of Rovere at Brooklands in ( it says) 1935 in the nose flashes 4CM1100.

And Boddy's " Brooklands"( 2001 edition) Page 359 shows Rayson's 4CM in 1936 looking like a standard 4CM

It seems to me that the main weak link in the chain related to WHICH Maserati was bought by Rayson from Rovere. It seems that it was not chassis 1120 ( or the Furmanik record car(s)). This notion is probably supported by the chassis number itself -- because it's hard to argue that 1521 could have been a 4CM1100 ( chassis numbers prefixed 11..) re-engined with 1500( despite the things that car builders do with chassis numbers).

There is more work to be done, but it seems at this stage that the concern felt by David McK and John M ( and others) about the nose flashes may be groundless. Perhaps I for one believed what I was told or simply jumped to the wrong conclusion -- for all those years. ( but I'd still like to know 1521's history before Teddy Rayson's ownership).

Egon, you're a hard man. I thought we were all TNF-united in our endless search for truth. Did I detect just a little whiff of cynicism or politics ....??

[Adam F]

I can add a bit more detail to the 1521 car's immediate post-war appearances :-

It was owned immediately post-war by Harry Grey and Richard Dixon, and whilst owned by them it was raced by Ian Connell at the 1947 Jersey road race.
It was then purchased by Charles Mortimer in mid 1947, who raced it at Gransden Lodge that year.
It then passed to Roy Salvoadori for 1948 and was sold to Baring for 1949 and it was during his ownership, probably at the beginning of 1949, that the more modern "4CL like" front was added.

The photos in John Blanden's book (p215) of the car in Australia in the 1960s match the appearance when raced by Baring in 1949.

Regarding the car's immediate post-war appearance this is shown in a photo of Roy Salvadori in Anthony Pritchard's "Maserati - A history" (p105 top photo), and in Charles Mortimer's book "With Hindsight". Pritchard's book also shows Mortimer in the other Maserati he owned, a 6CM ex Brackenbury.

[Michael Müller]

Hmm, is there any photo of Rayson and the 4CM?
It could be the missing link....!

[Michael Müller]

Well, no photos anymore here on TNF. As I did not took them by myselves (unlikely for most of us if we talk about the 30's ), and as I'm not in the mood to spent days / weeks / months / years for finding the copyright owners, I will not post them here - over!

Well, #1521 - delivered on 31 Aug 1934 to Guiseppe Farina of Torino. Sorry, cannot show the proof, but this car looks different than the Furmanik 1100's. But it looks identical to the car driven by Roy Salvadori in 1948, and based on my knowledge this was also the car driven by Rayson in 1937. Where's the link? Rovere was team owner of Scuderia Subalpina in 1934, and from 1935 on President of Maserati, Farina was his protegé, and Furmanik had very close relations to Maserati (he later became even president of the ACI's sporting council). Mix them all up, and you have the "Maserati Mafia" of that period ....
So for me there is no question that the "Australian car" indeed is #1521. However, this car obviously never had the famous flame cowling.

Now the other "corpus delicti" - #1120. Furmanik's record car, Furmanik's race car, Rovere's Brooklands car - yes, I know, countless sources claiming #1120 for this. But do these sources also tell that Furmanik had a 2nd 4CM-1100, namely the prototype #1115? And both changed hands to Rovere in 1935, or back to the Maserati pool, or however one can describe this "left pocket - right pocket" transaction. So who really can tell me which car was #1115 and which #1120? And by the way, was the 1936/37 record car still the same as that of 1934? Anybody able to sort this out? Me not, at least not at this current moment.

[alessandro silva]

The late Ian Connell in answering, by letter, a question of mine about the Dixon-Grey Maserati that he drove at Jersey 1947, asserted that it was the ex-Rayson car. It was then returned to Mortimer who raced it at Gransden >Lodge. A photo on Motor Sport, August 1947, p. 221 shows that this car is identical to the one raced the following year by Salvadori. A photograph in my possession of Farina in Torino, Coppa Principessa di Piemonte, 21/10/1934, shows the original 1521. Very similar, but not entirely identical to the Mortimer/Salvadori car, but later modifications can be assumed. Let us remark that these cars have NO headrest.

I have possession of a photo of Rovere at the Circuito di Milano in car "with flames". Date 28/6/1936. With NO headrest and very similar to Farina's, flames excepted.

A photo of Rovere at Dieppe 20/7/1935, Venables p. 69, shows a car WITH headrest and flames.
I have possession of two photos of Furmanik's 1934 record car. It is WITH headrest and is the same as the Dieppe Rovere car, excepted the radiator cowl and a fairing for the seat on the off-side. It can be assumed then that the Dieppe car was 1520 which received the 1500cc engine #1530.

[john medley]

Thanks, gentlemen , for the contributions.

Adam F and Alessandro sent me rushing off to look up 1947 Jersey road race -- because that was new info to me.

Much of the rest I had worked out from various barely-connected bits of the jigsaw puzzle.

It's reasonable to assume that Rovere not just owned but had a significant hand in more than just these 2( ?) Maseratis, either on his own, or as part of Scuderia Subalpina, or as President of Maserati. There are suggestions that a Furmanik car was Rovere-owned, and broke records. I think I've found different sources suggesting Furmanik record-breaking in 1932, 1934,and 1936. One source refers( for 1936) to " Furmanik's veteran Maserati", suggesting one car only. Can anyone clarify how many?
We know that the " nose flashes " car was raced during the 1932 - 1936 record breaking period, looking quite different to the record car(S). While it would not be too difficult to play kitcars and convert the noseflashes car to recordbreaker(s) and back again( particularly since the record breaking appears to have taken place in the winter nonracing period), I wonder if a factory/ quasi factory operation would do that.

1521 was delivered August 1934 to Farina ( probably paid for by Rovere, though) and within 10 days he raced it and won, at Biella. It is not difficult to track the car for the rest of 1934 in Farina's hands, but trickier after that -- when the car appears ( to me, anyway)to have been subsumed into the Scuderia Subalpina operation . That is, until the Subalpina partner/ Maserati President Rovere sold it to Rayson, who first raced it in March 1936.
We therefore can be pretty certain that Alessandro's reference to the noseflashes car at Milan 28/6/36 refers not to 1521, but to the car that had the noseflashes all along ie 1120.
There are other dates in the jigsaw that mutually exclude -- so the picture becomes clearer.

What is not clear to me , however, is your last paragraph, Alessandro.-- not just the logic but the numbers.
Regards to all, and thanks again

[Porsche718]

A photo of Rovere at Dieppe 20/7/1935, Venables p. 69, shows a car WITH headrest and flames.
I have possession of two photos of Furmanik's 1934 record car. It is WITH headrest and is the same as the Dieppe Rovere car, excepted the radiator cowl and a fairing for the seat on the off-side. It can be assumed then that the Dieppe car was 1520 which received the 1500cc engine #1530.

 

 I have just been doing research on 4CM "1520". The 6CM engine "1530" was fitted on 16th March 1936 whilst in the possession of Hans Reusch. I'm I querying the suggestion that Rovere raced this car 9 months previously.

 

According to my research Reusch had the car from August 1934 to late 1936?

 

Cheers, Steve

[Porsche718]

Just a question about Ian Connell's entry at Jersey in 1947.

 

My records show that 1521 was purchased post war by Dixon & Grey and then sold to Connell & Evans. Connell's first drive in the car was at Jersey 1947. My race file results are the same as everything else I have seen on the net, in books etc including Motor Sports modern results archive with Connell retiring on lap 6.

 

But the actual Motor Sport period report in the June 1947 edition has no mention of him, and he is not shown on the starting grid. 

 

There were 25 competitors listed as starting. The odd driver who is listed among the 25 is Richard Grey in a Maserati 4CM with #9. Presumably 1521.

 

Connell is entered with #6.

 

Did Dixon & Grey put the entry in, but thereafter sold the car, therefore Connell raced it? Perhaps the reporters at the meeting were unaware of the change so reported the driver as Dixon?

 

Dixon was listed as starting on the third row of the grid. Fairly high for a new driver in an unfamiliar (and outdated) Maserati. Although Connell could qualify the 4CM fairly well.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Porsche718, 25 April 2023 - 07:31.

[uechtel]

Alessandro Silva has original entries #6 Connell/Evans (DNA) in a Maserati 6CM/4CL loaned from Sommer and #9 Dixon/Gray in 4CM 1521. After the latter did not qualify the car was taken by Connell(/Evans) for the race.

[Porsche718]

Thanks euchtel

 

That exactly what I had assumed had happened.

 

I have access to the programme which is what started my enquiry.

 

Obviously the journalist taking race details was not aware of the change.

[cooper997]

Here's the preliminary Jersey report from 9/5/47 The Autocar (day after event)

Non-starters mentioned in column 2, para 2.

 

 

 

Another point worth noting is that in his 2/89 Supercar Classics column, Eoin Young discusses procuring David Chambers ring bound journal for the car during a visit to Fred Vogel. No doubt with suitable ESY tax added it was moved on to a collector and/or Maserati enthusiast. Hopefully it survives 'somewhere' all these years later.

 

 

Stephen

[Porsche718]

Thanks for that Stephen,

 

There is some thoughts that the Evans-Connell entry that was a non-starter, was actually a double entry for Sommer's own 6CM/4CL: ie. Sommers car that Connell had been hiring for Continental races.

 

Therefore the entries #5 & 6 were actually the same car which was left on the Continent after a race the week before. Sommer of course took over a Milano entry #3.

 

#9 was the car that it is said Connell took over for the race at Jersey and was the car he thereafter bought to race in UK, whilst still using  the Sommer car for some European races later in the year.

 

But it is confrustrating.

 

Cheers 

 

Steve W

[cooper997]

Steve, I don't have the following week's The Autocar mentioned to be having the full report in post 18. However I do have this from 14/5/47 The Motor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 26 April 2023 - 10:25.

[cooper997]

A couple of obvious reasons why this topic-related Maserati stayed in Australia as long as it did. Even after this attempt by Norman Wiltshire to sell to the Americans in 9/61 Road & Track.

 

First being 'where's Sydney?' by many seeing the advert in period, let alone the price!!! 

 

 

 

Stephen

[JoBo]

A couple of obvious reasons why this topic-related Maserati stayed in Australia as long as it did. Even after this attempt by Norman Wiltshire to sell to the Americans in 9/61 Road & Track.

 

First being 'where's Sydney?' by many seeing the advert in period, let alone the price!!! 

 

 

 

Stephen

The car is today located and owned in Germany. Peter Altenbach sold it in Sept. 2009 to its current owner

Edited by JoBo, 01 May 2023 - 16:56.

[Charlieman]

What does the abbreviation fob mean?

[Catalina Park]

What does the abbreviation fob mean?

 

Freight On Board or Free On Board, it's an old shipping term. The ownership and risk is transferred when it is loaded on a ship.

[Sterzo]

Freight On Board or Free On Board, it's an old shipping term. The ownership and risk is transferred when it is loaded on a ship.

The significant part being that the customer pays for the transport and insurance himself.

[MarkBisset]

​

 

Ernesto Maserati and Giuseppe Furmanik with one of Giuseppe’s Maserati 4CM lightweight record-breakers at Tassignano on or about June 3, 1937.

 

Photos from the Pirelli Archive 

 

This article is an assemblage of information and happy snaps about Furmanik and related on the Internet: https://primotipo.co...record-breaker/

 

 

Edited by MarkBisset, 12 July 2024 - 07:03.

[shawthing]

 

This article is an assemblage of information and happy snaps about Furmanik and related on the Internet: https://primotipo.co...record-breaker/

 

There are, unfortunately, a disappointingly high number of errors contained in this article.

This means that, whilst appreciating some lovely photographs, the text itself should be treated with caution.

[LittleChris]

Okay, but could you please point the errors out, just for the record ? 

[Jahn1234567890]

​This article is an assemblage of information and happy snaps about Furmanik and related on the Internet: https://primotipo.co...record-breaker/

 

 

I would assume the article has used the same misinfornation that is listed on the Bonhams lot of Maserati 4CM 1120. I would be careful with the information provided on such websites as auction dealers do not always have the full / correct history on such cars.

 

Anyway please find below corrections regarding the primotipo article:

 

* Gino Rovere was not involved in the Scuderia Subalpina. The team was set up by Luigi Della Chiesa and his associates Giorgio Giusti and Giorgio Ambrosini.

 

* 4CM 1120 was not the car that was sold to Teddy Rayson. Rayson aquired a different 4CM from Rovere, namely 4CM 1521. For the 1936 season Rovere's team competed under the works banner as Rovere became president of the Officine.

4CM 1120 was driven by various works driver in the  first part of the 1936 season, after which the car was sold to Scuderia Impero with Agostino Prosperi and Mario Colini being the drivers. Rovere also drove his old car for Impero at Pescara.

 

* The image of 4CM 1120 at Dieppe actually shows Giuseppe Farina and not Gino Rovere.

 

* 4CM 1115 technically was not owned by Furmanik. 1115 was the built at Furmanik's request and was the first proper monoposto built by the Maserati factory. This car was only raced in 1932 used by the works team.

 

* The images in this article show two different speed records cars. The closed streamliner is 6CM 1536, also referred to as 4CM 1536. Please note that this car had a 4C engine. No factory build sheet of this car exists. Shortly explained the chassis technically is a 6CM with a 4C engine. Furmanik made several speed record attempts in this car on the 2nd and 3rd of June 1937 at the Autostrada Firenze-Mare.

The earlier images are of 4CM 1120 in which Furmanik made speed record attempts on the 28th of November at the Lucca-Altopascio section of the Autostrada Firenze-Mare, on the 8th of January 1936 at the Pescara circuit and lastly on the 29th of January 1936 again at the Lucca-Altopascio section of the Autostrada Firenze-Mare.

 

* The distinctive chrome flashing on the nose was NOT initiated by Rovere and always there. 1120 always carried this feature (obviously excluded its speed attempt appearances) although I do not have an image of it's only 1932 appearance at Pescara. To this day 1120 has the same distinctive chrome flashing.

 

* R. A. Jones never owned 4CM 1120 his 4CM was 1525.

Edited by Jahn1234567890, 13 July 2024 - 20:53.

[MarkBisset]

Many thanks Jahn,

 

I'll make the changes accordingly. What chassis did Furmanik use in his record-breaking please?

 

Adam's comments without substantiation under cover of one of his many noms de guerre is regarded as poor form - gutless and p!ssweak - in this country. Time to find a set methinks.

 

Still, the readership of the article is going off like a frog-in-a-sock, great for my Google-ranking!

 

Mark

 

ps; Adam, Johnny Russell sends his regards

Edited by MarkBisset, 13 July 2024 - 12:12.

[Jahn1234567890]

I have updated my list of corrections. There are other more minor mistakes in the article but I do not feel like pointing out every little mistake.

 

Still, the readership of the article is going off like a frog-in-a-sock, great for my Google-ranking!

 

I must say I do not like this comment. It has made me somewhat reluclant to share further corrections and it gives me the feeling you are more interested in 'views' rather than giving your audience a well researched and factually correct article.

Especially if the article is about a subject which lies close to my heart and on which I have spent countless of hours and done a lot of research on.

I do hope my assessment on this is wrong.

 

Best regards,

 

Kevin

[MarkBisset]

Cheers Kevin,

 

I've made your changes.

Don't let my inherent flippancy fool you, my intent is always to get it right, be it a 1000 work quickie (like this one) or a 9000 word epic.

 

m

[MarkBisset]

Kevin,

 

I've made further changes - without starting from scratch - and given the piece a bit more structure.

 

I would like to acknowledge your contribution in the list of credits but I don't know your name. If that is ok with you, please email it to me on mark@bisset.com.au.

 

In any event, thanks again for your help.

 

m

[cooper997]

When Tom Sulman went to the UK to play his part in the Kangaroo Stable Aston DB3S racing during 1955, (what I believe is his accountant) advertised a couple of his ageing fleet.

 

This advert appeared in 4 /55 AMS classifieds. But I believe the Maserati didn't sell quickly. Not until late 1956, when a snippet appeared in 12/56 AMS that it had been sold. Although rather cryptic to who. "... he is a country boy and has appeared hitherto in a car of his own make." I believe that's where Jack Neal fits in, despite usually left out of this car's chain of ownership.

 

 

 

Stephen

[MarkBisset]

 

(Tony Johns Collection)

 

Following your lead Stevo…

 

David Chambers in 4CM #1521 at Rob Roy on March 13, 1950. Blanden writes that this was the car’s Oz debut. Any idea what the circumstances were that led to Chambers’ suicide? 
 

m 

Edited by MarkBisset, 15 July 2024 - 10:25.

[cooper997]

Mark, David Chambers also had his MG TC entered in that same Rob Roy HC.

 

He must have hoped to run the Maserati at the 1950 AGP, Nurioopta. But didn't get the car on the ship in time. There's a brief reference to this in 11/49 AMS when he was Melbourne-based. He is listed in the Nurioopta entry list with the TC.

 

With his Sydney move, he was involved with Larke Hoskins (possibly with his brother Peter) - the big Austin distributor in NSW. While soon trying to sell the Maserati with several adverts in AMS, was running the Ken Wylie-built Weir & Male Austin A40 special that he rolled at the 11/50 Hawkesbury Hillclimb.

 

As for his death, there's a brief reference in 5/53 AMS and that the Cooper Bristol was coming. Of course, a future World Champion made well with that car.

 

 

Stephen

[ReWind]

On the WWW you can find an article in the Daily Mirror (Sydney, NSW) from Thursday, 16 April 1953:

FAMILY’S TWO TRAGEDIES
Rich bachelor's gas death
Wealthy socialite David Henry Chambers (28) was found fatally gassed in his flat in Fairfax Rd., Bellevue Hill on Tuesday, it was learned today.
His death was the second tragedy in his family in recent months.
Mr. Chambers' stepfather, Douglas McKaen Tooth (54), was found dead in the Imperial Service Club, Barrack St., Sydney, last December.
The City Coroner (Mr. Forrest) found that Mr. Tooth, a wealthy importer and grazier, who had lived in the Moss Vale district, committed suicide by shooting himself.
Mr Chambers was to have married Miss Joyce Bianchi, well known in social circles, on March 12. However; guests were advised later, that the marriage was not to take place!
Miss Bianchi lives in Elizabeth Bay. Accompanied by her mother, she visited the Continent in 1951. The marriage plans were widely publicised. Many socially prominent guests were invited to the
ceremony. The marriage was to have taken place at an Elizabeth Bay church.
Mr. Chambers served in the Navy during the war, and was a prominent racing car driver. He was the elder son of Mrs. Helen Tooth and the late Dr. V. F. Chambers.
Mr. David Chambers was buried privately in the Church of England Cemetery, Bong Bong, today, following a service in AH Saints' Church, Woollahra.
Police say that Mr. Chambers was found in the gas-filled kitchen of his flat by his brother, Mr. Henry Chambers, of Woollahra on Tuesday afternoon. Police say there are no suspicious circumstances about his death. But an inquest will be held.

 
Two more reports are to be found in the FindAGrave entry. The grave gives his date of death as 12 April 1953, i.e. Sunday.

Edited by ReWind, 16 July 2024 - 11:40.

[MarkBisset]

Many thanks Mr ReWind!

 

m

[cooper997]

I'll have to leave it to the genealogy experts on Chambers names / family members with reference to Henry as middle name and his brother's name in the ReWind post. Maybe David had more than one brother? Or Henry was known as Peter in motoring circles? 

 

This is how Bob Pritchett (aka RBP) described things in 8/50 AMS "The latest on racing car movements - Peter Chambers, NSW driver of 1100 HRG, now owns the Wylie Austin A40 Special; his brother David has the Maserati for sale, and hopes that his new masters , Larke Hoskins, will look with a fatherly eye on the prospect of driving the A40 in competitions."

 

 

Just adding for future reference, this Tom Sulman thread has some info relating to the main topic of this thread

https://forums.autos...485-tom-sulman/

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

A little bit of early racing coverage for Teddy Rayson and the car that would find its way to Australia with David Chambers help.

 

5/36 Speed covers the 4/4/36 British Empire Trophy race meeting held at Donington. Dick Seaman won in a Maserati, but this was coverage for Rayson.

 

"“Unquestionably, the unluckiest man in the race was E K Rayson, whose beautiful monoposto Maserati played him false on this occasion, the gear-lever jamming early on in the race. The requisite pit stop to adjust matters resulted in Rayson being flagged off after completing 99 of his 100 laps!

 

This meaning he is listed in the results under...

LAPS COVERED BY NON-FINISHERS 

E K Rayson 1496cc Maserati (S) , 99

 

This also appears amongst the H J Moser? centrepages illustrations...

 

 

Stephen

 

[MarkBisset]

​

 

 

Tom Sulman in 4CM #1521 in the paddock at Bathurst during the October 2 1960 Bathurst meeting, the feature race of which was the Craven-A International, won by Jack Brabham in Cooper T51 Climax. 
 

The Maserati was by this stage owned and entered by Norman Wiltshire. Tom finished 9th of 11, in Heat 2, started the feature well back (17th of 18) on the grid and was unclassified in the results. 
 

it’s gotta be the last time a 4CM ran in an ‘elite level’ period event surely? Not bad for a 1.5-litre 28 year old car of vastly different technology to those up front…let’s not talk about speed differentials shall we! 
 

Photo credit John Russell, whose wife Janet has been carpet-bombing Facebook for the best part of a week now…

Edited by MarkBisset, 21 July 2024 - 07:49.

[cooper997]

It was a busy NSW long-weekend for the Maserati...

 

Sat October 1 & Sun October 2, 1960 (P) Bathurst International meeting.

Sun, Event 2 Atlantic 2^nd Qualifying heat Racing Cars 3 laps 11.54am p27

94 N B Wiltshire T N Sulman Maserati 4C 1496

Sun, Event 5 Craven ‘A’ International Racing Cars 26 laps 2.53pm p33

1101 to 1500cc

94 N B Wiltshire T N Sulman Maserati 4C 1496

 

 

Mon October 3, 1960 (P) ASCC Gnoo Blas (Orange) meeting          

Event 2 Racing Cars 10 laps

N B Wiltshire               Maserati 1496 94 – Sulman drive like at Bathurst??

 

I haven't gone looking if Tom ran at Gnoo Blas with the car.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Additional info and photos relating to the debut of David Chambers Maserati at the March 1950 Rob Roy.

 

From the programme...

Mon, March 13, 1950 (P) Rob Roy Hillclimb #21

Racing Class  1101 - 1500cc p13

Present record – Weir & Male Motors (Driver K Wylie) Austin A40 s/c 30.32sec

54 Chambers, D H – Maserati s/c

 

I've included the 'Present record' info because the Chambers' procured that car and took to Sydney. As already mentioned earlier.

 

 

The following page comes from Chester McKaige limited edition book 'Beyond the Lens. Published in 2004 using a wonderful selection of photos taken by his father, George at mainly Victorian events held between 1946 - early 1951. 

Used with Chester's permission.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

As far as I can work out the ex Chambers/ Sulman/ etc 4CM left Australia for a return trip to the UK, becoming part of the Brooks Olympia auction in November 1990. According to the market report on this event it failed to sell. So the question I have is did it stay there and find a buyer before Peter Altenbach (mentioned by jobo earlier in the thread) became the owner? Or return to Bruce Cooper in Australia?

 

T&CC described the auction as: -

..“The two pre-war Maseratis were very different, with the smaller engined car being a barn find and shabby in contrast to the beautifully rebuilt 8CM. The first was worth £300, 000 at least and the later £750,000.”

Five racing cars went to auction, one sold... Tyrrell 017 NS at £35k, Lotus 72 NS at £180k, BRM P578 sold £400k (Graham Hill's championship car), Maserati 4CM NS at £250k and 8CM NS at £700k.

 

 

Stephen

[Jahn1234567890]

As far as I can work out the ex Chambers/ Sulman/ etc 4CM left Australia for a return trip to the UK, becoming part of the Brooks Olympia auction in November 1990. According to the market report on this event it failed to sell. So the question I have is did it stay there and find a buyer before Peter Altenbach (mentioned by jobo earlier in the thread) became the owner? Or return to Bruce Cooper in Australia?

 

T&CC described the auction as: -

..“The two pre-war Maseratis were very different, with the smaller engined car being a barn find and shabby in contrast to the beautifully rebuilt 8CM. The first was worth £300, 000 at least and the later £750,000.”

Five racing cars went to auction, one sold... Tyrrell 017 NS at £35k, Lotus 72 NS at £180k, BRM P578 sold £400k (Graham Hill's championship car), Maserati 4CM NS at £250k and 8CM NS at £700k.

 

 

Stephen

 

4CM 1521 was owned by Dan Margulies before the car went to Peter Altenbach. Margulies advertised selling the car a few times in MotorSport in 1994.

[JoBo]

As far as I can work out the ex Chambers/ Sulman/ etc 4CM left Australia for a return trip to the UK, becoming part of the Brooks Olympia auction in November 1990. According to the market report on this event it failed to sell. So the question I have is did it stay there and find a buyer before Peter Altenbach (mentioned by jobo earlier in the thread) became the owner? Or return to Bruce Cooper in Australia?

 

T&CC described the auction as: -

..“The two pre-war Maseratis were very different, with the smaller engined car being a barn find and shabby in contrast to the beautifully rebuilt 8CM. The first was worth £300, 000 at least and the later £750,000.”

Five racing cars went to auction, one sold... Tyrrell 017 NS at £35k, Lotus 72 NS at £180k, BRM P578 sold £400k (Graham Hill's championship car), Maserati 4CM NS at £250k and 8CM NS at £700k.

 

 

Stephen

Peter Altenbach sold the car about 15 years ago to its still current owner in Germany.

Edited by JoBo, 28 July 2024 - 15:57.

[cooper997]

Thank you to Jahn and Jobo for the responses. Helps on where to look.

 

Found 2 issues of Motor Sport with 1521 lurking in the advert of January & February 1994.

 

Is this the correct period when Mr Altenbach procured the car please?

 

The January advert makes mention of its Australian history.

 

Wheras the February advert mentions its early history and with a period photo.

 

 

Stephen

[JoBo]

Thank you to Jahn and Jobo for the responses. Helps on where to look.

 

Found 2 issues of Motor Sport with 1521 lurking in the advert of January & February 1994.

 

Is this the correct period when Mr Altenbach procured the car please?

 

The January advert makes mention of its Australian history.

 

Wheras the February advert mentions its early history and with a period photo.

 

 

Stephen

Peter Altenbach purchased #1521 from Magulis in 1995.

Edited by JoBo, 29 July 2024 - 08:18.

[cooper997]

Thanks to JoBo for hiis response.

 

 

What follows is some information from the Easter 1950 Bathurst meeting and then some of the 5/50 AMS coverage relating to the Maserati's Australian circuit racing debut.

 

Easter Monday, April 10, 1950 (P) ASCC Bathurst ‘Çar Racing’           

Event 1 Under 1500cc Handicap 6 laps 1pm

2 D Chambers Vic Maserati 1496cc scr 

David Chambers writeup by Peter Baird

“David Chambers – Maserati (Vic): This is the first example of the famous Italian marque to come to Australia, though it has been forefront in Continental racing for many years past. This car a 1934 -35 model, has been extensively rebuilt in ’48: and the 4-cylinder , 1 ½ litre motor now gives off better than 150 bhp with a 12 lb blower boost. A good power to weight ratio coupled with a pre-selector gearbox and modernised brabes should make it a slippery vehicle on this road circuit. David has raced the Maserati at Goodwood and Silverstone in England, but this will be its first eagerly-awaited appearance in this country.”

Event 3 NSW ‘100’ 25 laps 2.45pm

2 D Chambers Vic Maserati 1496cc 1.40

Report

5/50 AMS

Spotlight – “So did the Cooper-Maserati duel, which lasted for several laps of the Hundred. When you consider that Jack Saywell hasn’t handled a racing car for ten years, and that David Chambers hadn’t driven at Bathurst before, their lap times of down to 3.08 assume perspective. - RBP (Bob Pritchett)”

 

The report shows 2 x Chambers related photos. Page 22 photo caption reads “First appearance – David Chambers’1 ½ litre Maserati was seen for the time in a road race. A faulty oil scanvenge pump caused frequent pit stops.”

 

 

Throughout various sources, including this one, Chambers is referenced with a run at Silverstone. So the question is which meeting and if so is the entry/drive credited to Archie Baring rather than David Chambers?

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Friday afternoon I went into a bookshop and found Charles Mortimer's With Hindsight. Quick flick to see Maserati and Alta content and price within budget it came home.

 

As British motor racing dusted itself off to begin post-war racing - 13/7/47 Gransden Lodge Aerodrome 'Joint Invitation Race Meeting" - Charles in 4CM 1521. "Don't worry Charles we won't spill any brew on you!"

 

 

 

Stephen